Update 306 is now live on steam! - Natural Selection 2

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  • .trixX..trixX. BudapestMembers Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Posts: 863 Advanced user
    I guess admitting that you were wrong would make your brain explode.
    New players can't play the game, period
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Members, Reinforced - Supporter Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Posts: 773 Advanced user
    .trixX. wrote: »
    I see you know the community quite well. Weren't you the guy who lashed out on new players - that they are stupid and can't play aliens, that's why the marine stomp - when the hitbox update came out?

    Yes he was that guy. dePARA doesn't understand that 1.) shi.t game balance is shi.t for pubs too and 2.) regardless of balance unprecise hitboxes are worse than precise hitboxes. With that change the game received a HUGE drop in overall quality and not only that, then they increase skulk HP to "balance" for a change that was terrible anyway and nobody wants to have. So instead of making the game better and more fun by making the skulk smaller and more fun to play, they decided to go into the tank direction and also make that a hidden change since the models didn't increase in size while the hitboxes did.

    Oh yea and also it is very fun to play to get sniped from 100m away as Lerk vs shotguns.

    These kind of updates limit the gameplay the game has to offer, make it less fun and hitboxes bigger than the models (fade scythe big rofl) are also another hidden mechanic. What is funny because I heard they actually wanted to reduce the amount of hidden mechanics.

    I understand that some people think it is fun to deal damage when you miss the target but probably they have not thought about the problem that it is not so fun as an alien.
    BestProfileName
  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    Your shit gamebalance comes from the fact that half of the team has no clue what they are doing.
    So you balancing the game around the 2 carrys of each team, congrats.

    Smaller skulks=more fun to play? Makes sense, well, no.
    The fun of this game comes from the teamplay, good coordinated ambushes are fun. Playing with people who listen and know what todo is fun.
    And as i said before, after the HP buff the skulk didnt feel that different to me in early game compared to pre 305.

    image
  • halfofaheavenhalfofaheaven Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Gold Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168660Posts: 425 Fully active user
    So, I'm the only person whose performance hasn't improved one bit with the new hitboxes then? I feel like my accuracy is the exact same, only skulks got stronger. What I wouldn't give to get back my 144hz monitor...
  • .trixX..trixX. BudapestMembers Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Posts: 863 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    sp4ki6iosny8.png
    dePARA wrote: »
    Your **** gamebalance comes from the fact that half of the team has no clue what they are doing.
    And now you're contradicting yourself in second-order. How can the enlarged hitboxes change the fact that most pple don't know how to play the game?
    Marine side may be more forgiving (relatively) for new players, but how many times do you see marines running blindly through doorways not checking the ceiling/corners? Not to mention they never keep their distance and choose smart positions, just run towards lifeforms.
    dePARA wrote: »
    The fun of this game comes from the teamplay, good coordinated ambushes are fun. Playing with people who listen and know what todo is fun.
    On that we agree. But I don't see any way to force it on players
    dePARA wrote: »
    And as i said before, after the HP buff the skulk didnt feel that different to me in early game compared to pre 305.
    It does for me. Both 305 and 306 brought huge changes in gameplay - for both sides, not only skulks.
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    I wonder why so many vets had left the game before the CDT team was takin over the development?
    And i wonder why the game had always a low playerbase?
    Cause all the vets who never going to play other games and stick with the game should end in an HUGE playerbase after 3 years, right.
    What a logic.

    All this "The vets leaving cause the last changes" is just wrong.
    Most of them had left it anyway, with or without the changes.
    We had people in the past left the game cause there was no development going on, now they leave cause to much?
    Jesus. If you dont like to play for whatever reason stop searching a scapegoat.
    image
  • .trixX..trixX. BudapestMembers Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Posts: 863 Advanced user
    @dePARA wait, CDT or PDT? Just know we are on the same page :]
    dePARA wrote: »
    We had people in the past left the game cause there was no development going on, now they leave cause to much?
    Jesus. If you dont like to play for whatever reason stop searching a scapegoat.
    No, a large portion of players are leaving because of UNREASONABLE changes, not because of changes.
    Can we not fall on the other side of the horse?
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
    cooliticHEllrunner2k
  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    And people like you know for sure what is UNREASONABLE. I understand.
    image
  • .trixX..trixX. BudapestMembers Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Posts: 863 Advanced user
    dePARA wrote: »
    And people like you know for sure what is UNREASONABLE. I understand.
    Hyperbole alert!

    I've written pages of arguments, along with others (here and elsewhere).
    That's B&W, care to argue about those instead of "people like you"?

    But wait, since we are here, let me ask you this: why should we care about a guy's opinion who was clearly in the wrong, yet haven't even bothered to correct himself? You sure you want to go down that road?
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
    cooliticHEllrunner2k
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Members Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Posts: 571 Advanced user
    Mines are becoming more traps than area denial tools which isnt necessarly a bad thing, it allows to do something about it if you notice it before walking on it, tho I agree it could use like 10 more hp because both functions need to remain somewhat usable.
  • .trixX..trixX. BudapestMembers Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Posts: 863 Advanced user
    How many parasites does it to kill a mine now? Just yesterday, me fool researched mines and encouraged people to buy them... only to see they had no res left for shotties, nor did they get any mine kills. And not everyone placed them in the middle of the room
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
    Vetinari
  • .trixX..trixX. BudapestMembers Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Posts: 863 Advanced user
    Would be nice if they reverted parasite kill of mines... they are quite useless this way, even if they increase the damage.
    Tagging is great, other aliens see where they shouldn't step, while still retaining it's area denial function
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
    soccerguy243
  • ObraxisObraxis Subnautica Animator & Generalist, NS2 PersonSuper Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Supporter, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2004-07-24 Member: 30071Posts: 3,013 admin
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Oh my, I just noticed. But it seems now we're balancing the game around entry level play?

    Of all people Kouji, I think you should know that we don't do that. Balance has to take into account a huge amount of things. What we ARE doing, is trying to make the game more accessible to new players. Everyone knows the barrier to entry for NS2 is high, even with the new tutorials we've been working on. This doesn't mean dumbing down the game, but it's no secret that NS2 has had for a long time issues that have needed addressing for new players. We're taking steps to help ensure new players have a better introduction to the game, and don't walk away from their first play session feeling like they had zero chance at doing anything. We need to grow NS2, not look to the past. The past has clearly not worked. That's why we're starting to see growth compared to this time last year (5 months so far).

    We can argue and argue about the various sizes & accuracy of hitboxes. We've done that for years before (I know I have). But now is the time to focus make sure the game feels good and modern if we have any chance of continuing to increase the active playerbase like we have been.

    If NS2 fails, follow my Nuke From Orbit Guide.

    NS2 Discord: https://discord.gg/0TKQwZWu7JEPeAgW

    Subnautica Discord: https://discord.gg/subnautica

    moultano
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Members, Reinforced - Supporter Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Posts: 773 Advanced user
    Obraxis wrote: »
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Oh my, I just noticed. But it seems now we're balancing the game around entry level play?

    Of all people Kouji, I think you should know that we don't do that. Balance has to take into account a huge amount of things. What we ARE doing, is trying to make the game more accessible to new players. Everyone knows the barrier to entry for NS2 is high, even with the new tutorials we've been working on. This doesn't mean dumbing down the game, but it's no secret that NS2 has had for a long time issues that have needed addressing for new players. We're taking steps to help ensure new players have a better introduction to the game, and don't walk away from their first play session feeling like they had zero chance at doing anything. We need to grow NS2, not look to the past. The past has clearly not worked. That's why we're starting to see growth compared to this time last year (5 months so far).

    We can argue and argue about the various sizes & accuracy of hitboxes. We've done that for years before (I know I have). But now is the time to focus make sure the game feels good and modern if we have any chance of continuing to increase the active playerbase like we have been.

    So you are basically saying, all NS veterans should go on and search for other games to play, as long as enough new casual players find their way into the game. For me it sounds that you are working towards a NS3 casual console game and NS2 is your marketing campaign.
  • YojimboYojimbo EnglandMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Posts: 1,252 Advanced user
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Obraxis wrote: »
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Oh my, I just noticed. But it seems now we're balancing the game around entry level play?

    Of all people Kouji, I think you should know that we don't do that. Balance has to take into account a huge amount of things. What we ARE doing, is trying to make the game more accessible to new players. Everyone knows the barrier to entry for NS2 is high, even with the new tutorials we've been working on. This doesn't mean dumbing down the game, but it's no secret that NS2 has had for a long time issues that have needed addressing for new players. We're taking steps to help ensure new players have a better introduction to the game, and don't walk away from their first play session feeling like they had zero chance at doing anything. We need to grow NS2, not look to the past. The past has clearly not worked. That's why we're starting to see growth compared to this time last year (5 months so far).

    We can argue and argue about the various sizes & accuracy of hitboxes. We've done that for years before (I know I have). But now is the time to focus make sure the game feels good and modern if we have any chance of continuing to increase the active playerbase like we have been.

    Best intentions...

    DA5GeI8h.jpg

    I'm sorry, but they are only as good as how they are implemented. And what I see right now, tunnelvision fixing of problems without keeping an eye on the bigger picture. While better options, suggested by the community from vets and people who know their stuff have been completely ignored.

    And please don't call me out, when the case you're presenting ambiguous at best.


    And of all people, you know I'll definitely speak up when I see wrongdoings, even now when my interest has reached rock bottom. And I'm very unimpressed by the current ripping apart the core of a working game, instead of focusing on making hidden game mechanics more obvious, streaming lining information and adding obvious incentives to push people to do stuff. Instead of adding way to radical changes to the game that once was Natural Selection 2...

    https://youtu.be/uOHFCuLj2uI
    Today's rookies are tomorrow's vets.

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

    George Carlin.
    Kouji_SanUncleCrunch.trixX.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The NetherlandsMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 15,782 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    Yojimbo wrote: »
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Obraxis wrote: »
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Oh my, I just noticed. But it seems now we're balancing the game around entry level play?

    Of all people Kouji, I think you should know that we don't do that. Balance has to take into account a huge amount of things. What we ARE doing, is trying to make the game more accessible to new players. Everyone knows the barrier to entry for NS2 is high, even with the new tutorials we've been working on. This doesn't mean dumbing down the game, but it's no secret that NS2 has had for a long time issues that have needed addressing for new players. We're taking steps to help ensure new players have a better introduction to the game, and don't walk away from their first play session feeling like they had zero chance at doing anything. We need to grow NS2, not look to the past. The past has clearly not worked. That's why we're starting to see growth compared to this time last year (5 months so far).

    We can argue and argue about the various sizes & accuracy of hitboxes. We've done that for years before (I know I have). But now is the time to focus make sure the game feels good and modern if we have any chance of continuing to increase the active playerbase like we have been.

    Best intentions...

    DA5GeI8h.jpg

    I'm sorry, but they are only as good as how they are implemented. And what I see right now, tunnelvision fixing of problems without keeping an eye on the bigger picture. While better options, suggested by the community from vets and people who know their stuff have been completely ignored.

    And please don't call me out, when the case you're presenting ambiguous at best.


    And of all people, you know I'll definitely speak up when I see wrongdoings, even now when my interest has reached rock bottom. And I'm very unimpressed by the current ripping apart the core of a working game, instead of focusing on making hidden game mechanics more obvious, streaming lining information and adding obvious incentives to push people to do stuff. Instead of adding way to radical changes to the game that once was Natural Selection 2...

    1v1 de_dust scrub :D

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" 

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue | 102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting

  • YojimboYojimbo EnglandMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Posts: 1,252 Advanced user
    You know times are bad when even @Kouji_San is even disappointed lol
    Today's rookies are tomorrow's vets.

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

    George Carlin.
    .trixX.2cough
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Members Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Posts: 571 Advanced user
    @Obraxis Did you play a pub last month or are you basing changelogs on abstract ideas without verifying what they do in practice?
    .trixX.BestProfileName
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind youMembers Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    Obraxis wrote: »
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Oh my, I just noticed. But it seems now we're balancing the game around entry level play?

    Of all people Kouji, I think you should know that we don't do that. Balance has to take into account a huge amount of things. What we ARE doing, is trying to make the game more accessible to new players. Everyone knows the barrier to entry for NS2 is high, even with the new tutorials we've been working on. This doesn't mean dumbing down the game, but it's no secret that NS2 has had for a long time issues that have needed addressing for new players. We're taking steps to help ensure new players have a better introduction to the game, and don't walk away from their first play session feeling like they had zero chance at doing anything. We need to grow NS2, not look to the past. The past has clearly not worked. That's why we're starting to see growth compared to this time last year (5 months so far).

    We can argue and argue about the various sizes & accuracy of hitboxes. We've done that for years before (I know I have). But now is the time to focus make sure the game feels good and modern if we have any chance of continuing to increase the active playerbase like we have been.

    You CANNOT get significant growth out of this game. It is TOO OLD. Any kind of major improvement would require a significant amount of resources, in which case it would still be better to just leave this game in a good state and start fresh with NS3.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


    Jekt2coughBestProfileName
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind youMembers Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    Yojimbo wrote: »

    You're doing it wrong.
    57e.jpg
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


  • DaveodethDaveodeth Members Join Date: 2012-11-21 Member: 172717Posts: 280 Advanced user
    Obraxis wrote: »
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Oh my, I just noticed. But it seems now we're balancing the game around entry level play?

    We can argue and argue about the various sizes & accuracy of hitboxes. We've done that for years before (I know I have). But now is the time to focus make sure the game feels good and modern if we have any chance of continuing to increase the active playerbase like we have been.

    perhaps I missed something in the time I've been away but hasn't the average and peak players been going down?
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Members Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Posts: 571 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    based on steamcharts, it's marginally better than last year yes and they managed to stop the shrinking
    .trixX.
  • DaveodethDaveodeth Members Join Date: 2012-11-21 Member: 172717Posts: 280 Advanced user
    it's trending downwards for 6 months, more worryingly the peak for July dropped massively. That should be raising alarm bells. If you are looking to grow the playerbase that's exactly what it should not be doing. being up YoY for the last 3 months is great and all but it's going in the wrong direction.
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