Update 306 is now live on steam! - Natural Selection 2

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  • PelargirPelargir Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Forum staff Join Date: 2013-07-02 Member: 185857Posts: 1,199 mod
    Zek wrote: »
    2cough wrote: »
    Your must swallow the pill you've been given because mommy knows best.

    This is exactly the sort of thing I meant by "toxic" fyi. I don't deny that people have sincere disagreements with the current direction of the game. But why would anyone who enjoys the changes come here just to get into never-ending cyclical arguments? That's why the forums aren't representative of the community as a whole, which also applies to most official game forums fwiw. Most people don't bother to visit the forums to post about being happy, they come to air their grievances, which in turn creates a negative atmosphere that further chases off players who are satisfied.

    And yet, this forum has shown more positive feedbacks than negative's since release. It's just started to get worse these last months. People might not bother posting* on the forum about being happy, but it doesn't mean they don't read it. Even if you were right, that is definitely no valid reason to ignore those 'negative feedbacks'.
    "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"

    "However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results."


    Yojimbo.trixX.
  • ZekZek Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Posts: 4,690 Advanced user
    Pelargir wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    2cough wrote: »
    Your must swallow the pill you've been given because mommy knows best.

    This is exactly the sort of thing I meant by "toxic" fyi. I don't deny that people have sincere disagreements with the current direction of the game. But why would anyone who enjoys the changes come here just to get into never-ending cyclical arguments? That's why the forums aren't representative of the community as a whole, which also applies to most official game forums fwiw. Most people don't bother to visit the forums to post about being happy, they come to air their grievances, which in turn creates a negative atmosphere that further chases off players who are satisfied.

    And yet, this forum has shown more positive feedbacks than negative's since release. It's just started to get worse these last months. People might not bother posting* on the forum about being happy, but it doesn't mean they don't read it. Even if you were right, that is definitely no valid reason to ignore those 'negative feedbacks'.

    You're right, it's gotten a lot worse. That's why I don't typically post (or read) here anymore, it's a bummer to see a community I used to be part of turn so negative. My point is, just try to understand why the dev team chooses not to act on what might appear to be an "overwhelming majority" of criticism coming from the forums - in part it's because of selection bias of the people still posting here. It's not only new players that the changes are for, but also the rest of the community that doesn't post here anymore or never did. Taking forum feedback with a grain of salt is game development 101.
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United StatesMembers Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Posts: 729 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    But consider this...

    Even if it's just a small portion of the community.. The changes/fixes we've suggested comply with what the devs claim they wanted for the features and improve the overall game for everyone.

    Hp bars could've been integrated into the UI so they don't provide tracking assist and aren't as ugly (the two main complaints) while at the same time displaying health info (the only thing the devs have ever said they wanted it to do!!!) But the devs refuse and instead work on band aid fixes that only partially fix [/u]some[/u] of the issues.

    For example - Aliens are easier to track in the dark, and around other aliens/obstacles.. So they work on a "fix" so the bar won't show up as much around obstacles, leaving the Hp bar as a bright glowing symbol to mark Aliens in dark rooms. It's a complete waste of time on a partial fix when reskinning the HP bar and tying it to the UI would solve both issues (along with others)


    It's like why are they even bothering to pretend to care about our feedback in any way shape or form? It sure seems like they completely ignore anything that they aren't already intending on doing/fixing.


    snbVetinarimigalski
  • ZekZek Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Posts: 4,690 Advanced user
    Alite wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    2cough wrote: »
    Your must swallow the pill you've been given because mommy knows best.

    This is exactly the sort of thing I meant by "toxic" fyi. I don't deny that people have sincere disagreements with the current direction of the game. But why would anyone who enjoys the changes come here just to get into never-ending cyclical arguments? That's why the forums aren't representative of the community as a whole, which also applies to most official game forums fwiw. Most people don't bother to visit the forums to post about being happy, they come to air their grievances, which in turn creates a negative atmosphere that further chases off players who are satisfied.

    You have no idea what toxicity actually is. Most of the criticism I see here is given in a straight forward manner and usually with actual reasons (whether the criticism is correct or not is another story), however what you need to get through your brain is that negative feed back does not equal toxic.

    You get the same stupidity in game, where you give legitimate criticism to someone's gameplay/in game decisions and they claim you're toxic, yet you never even insulted them, it's so stupid.

    Maybe you need to create another thread with only positive feedback for the PDT and maintain that as a safe space for yourself because clearly you're a bit too sensitive to be posting here (OH NO was that TOXIC?).

    Something tells me you hear this accusation a lot? In any case this is the feedback thread for the patch, I just came to tell the PDT I think they're doing a good job since I know they don't hear that a lot these days.
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Members Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Posts: 571 Advanced user
    Zek wrote: »
    since I know they don't hear that a lot these days.

    For a reason, i hope this game's quality improve but it seems devs are thinking ns2 has "such a high quality" is "so much more original that the competition" they should just focus on accessibility wich is wrong NS2 is already having issues for months offering quality gameplay (in pubs)
  • VetinariVetinari Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Posts: 3,468 Advanced user
    Alite wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    2cough wrote: »
    Your must swallow the pill you've been given because mommy knows best.

    This is exactly the sort of thing I meant by "toxic" fyi. I don't deny that people have sincere disagreements with the current direction of the game. But why would anyone who enjoys the changes come here just to get into never-ending cyclical arguments? That's why the forums aren't representative of the community as a whole, which also applies to most official game forums fwiw. Most people don't bother to visit the forums to post about being happy, they come to air their grievances, which in turn creates a negative atmosphere that further chases off players who are satisfied.

    You have no idea what toxicity actually is. Most of the criticism I see here is given in a straight forward manner and usually with actual reasons (whether the criticism is correct or not is another story), however what you need to get through your brain is that negative feed back does not equal toxic.

    You get the same stupidity in game, where you give legitimate criticism to someone's gameplay/in game decisions and they claim you're toxic, yet you never even insulted them, it's so stupid.

    Maybe you need to create another thread with only positive feedback for the PDT and maintain that as a safe space for yourself because clearly you're a bit too sensitive to be posting here (OH NO was that TOXIC?).

    You know this latent passive aggressive sarcasm is exactly what he's talking about.

    Of course these forums don't exactly compare to, say, League of Legends, but then again, that's a very low bar to set. There is definitely room for improvement in how some people here interact with others.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
    IronHorsetwiliteblue
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind youMembers Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    Zek wrote: »
    Alite wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    2cough wrote: »
    Your must swallow the pill you've been given because mommy knows best.

    This is exactly the sort of thing I meant by "toxic" fyi. I don't deny that people have sincere disagreements with the current direction of the game. But why would anyone who enjoys the changes come here just to get into never-ending cyclical arguments? That's why the forums aren't representative of the community as a whole, which also applies to most official game forums fwiw. Most people don't bother to visit the forums to post about being happy, they come to air their grievances, which in turn creates a negative atmosphere that further chases off players who are satisfied.

    You have no idea what toxicity actually is. Most of the criticism I see here is given in a straight forward manner and usually with actual reasons (whether the criticism is correct or not is another story), however what you need to get through your brain is that negative feed back does not equal toxic.

    You get the same stupidity in game, where you give legitimate criticism to someone's gameplay/in game decisions and they claim you're toxic, yet you never even insulted them, it's so stupid.

    Maybe you need to create another thread with only positive feedback for the PDT and maintain that as a safe space for yourself because clearly you're a bit too sensitive to be posting here (OH NO was that TOXIC?).

    Something tells me you hear this accusation a lot? In any case this is the feedback thread for the patch, I just came to tell the PDT I think they're doing a good job since I know they don't hear that a lot these days.

    Something tells me that your the kind of person who thinks people should keep a job and get money even when their business is no longer popular. You don't thank someone extra to compensate for others not thanking them, that's just wrong.

    Maybe if the devs were as transparent as they said they would be, people wouldn't be as angry at them. Ironically, they are being less transparent than ever.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


    Alitemigalski.trixX.Me9a
  • RammlerRammler Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-06-18 Member: 185607Posts: 192 Advanced user
    What do you think about the 15hp buff?

    Imo skulks are too strong now. You need like 110 damage without carapace i think? that are 2 more bullets than before. in close combat and ambushes you cant kill the skulk in time anymore before he land 2 or 3 bites.
    Playing skulk was never so easy like now. 15 hp does not sound much but this 2 bullets make the difference now. where you died before you will now survive.
    wya3p5tg.png
    snb
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Members Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Posts: 571 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    Rammler wrote: »
    What do you think about the 15hp buff?

    Imo skulks are too strong now. You need like 110 damage without carapace i think? that are 2 more bullets than before. in close combat and ambushes you cant kill the skulk in time anymore before he land 2 or 3 bites.
    Playing skulk was never so easy like now. 15 hp does not sound much but this 2 bullets make the difference now. where you died before you will now survive.


    In terms of dps

    11 bullet is 0.6 second
    3 bites is 0.9 second
    (based on wiki numbers)

    So yea you need a pretty high accuracy and low reaction time dunno if that very casual but casual skulks also miss a ton of bites so.
  • RammlerRammler Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-06-18 Member: 185607Posts: 192 Advanced user
    Rammler wrote: »
    What do you think about the 15hp buff?

    Imo skulks are too strong now. You need like 110 damage without carapace i think? that are 2 more bullets than before. in close combat and ambushes you cant kill the skulk in time anymore before he land 2 or 3 bites.
    Playing skulk was never so easy like now. 15 hp does not sound much but this 2 bullets make the difference now. where you died before you will now survive.


    In terms of dps

    11 bullet is 0.6 second
    3 bites is 0.9 second
    (based on wiki numbers)

    So yea you need a pretty high accuracy and low reaction time dunno if that very casual but casual skulks also miss a ton of bites so.

    with new bite cone its nearly impossible to miss bites. i just realized since the hp update i die more than before. kill a skulk who is waiting behind the corner is nearly impossible when he has the momentum on his side. its just my personal opinion.
    uwe wanted to balance the problems with the new hitboxes. but the combat is not only in mid range. in close combat this 15 hp make a huge difference. skulks 70 hp was not an accident. 70 hp was the balanced between the marine able to kill a skulk in close combat before the skulk can hit 3 bites and the skulk able to kill a marine with good movement.

    wya3p5tg.png
  • AliteAlite Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2007-03-02 Member: 60188Posts: 76 Fully active user
    edited August 2016
    IronHorse wrote: »
    Alite wrote: »
    however what you need to get through your brain is that negative feed back does not equal toxic.
    No, but the way you say it is how it is defined as being toxic or not..
    You know, like calling someone "a special retard" or saying their "content is ****"? (Words from you that have been moderated in the past)

    There's plenty of well said "negative feedback" that occurs in these forums.. and then there's your typical vitriol, insults, and derision. Guess which ones are actually absorbed/considered by the devs?
    It's been the same since 2010.. the way you deliver your content is so much more impactful than your actual content, that's just the nature of how human interaction works. I sincerely wish everyone understood this fully, and those who would be emotionally charged (we've all been there) put just a bit more effort into the way they deliver their content.. as it can only be a net gain for everyone involved.

    I don't see how telling someone to get something through their brain is toxic but ok? Sorry I didn't say please and thank you?

    And I won't disagree with you that calling someone "a special retard" or saying their "content is ****" can be considered toxic, but that's not what I did in this thread, so I don't see how that's relevant? (especially when the stuff that was said was justified).
    Zek wrote: »
    Alite wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    2cough wrote: »
    Your must swallow the pill you've been given because mommy knows best.

    This is exactly the sort of thing I meant by "toxic" fyi. I don't deny that people have sincere disagreements with the current direction of the game. But why would anyone who enjoys the changes come here just to get into never-ending cyclical arguments? That's why the forums aren't representative of the community as a whole, which also applies to most official game forums fwiw. Most people don't bother to visit the forums to post about being happy, they come to air their grievances, which in turn creates a negative atmosphere that further chases off players who are satisfied.

    You have no idea what toxicity actually is. Most of the criticism I see here is given in a straight forward manner and usually with actual reasons (whether the criticism is correct or not is another story), however what you need to get through your brain is that negative feed back does not equal toxic.

    You get the same stupidity in game, where you give legitimate criticism to someone's gameplay/in game decisions and they claim you're toxic, yet you never even insulted them, it's so stupid.

    Maybe you need to create another thread with only positive feedback for the PDT and maintain that as a safe space for yourself because clearly you're a bit too sensitive to be posting here (OH NO was that TOXIC?).

    Something tells me you hear this accusation a lot? In any case this is the feedback thread for the patch, I just came to tell the PDT I think they're doing a good job since I know they don't hear that a lot these days.

    I personally don't get it much, what I see more of are people like you throwing the word "toxic" around for absolutely no reason. Like I said, criticism doesn't equal toxicity, try understanding that (and hopefully you don't consider this TOXIC either).
    cooliticmigalskid0ped0g
  • AeglosAeglos Members Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Posts: 644 Advanced user
    IronHorse wrote: »
    There's plenty of well said "negative feedback" that occurs in these forums.. and then there's your typical vitriol, insults, and derision. Guess which ones are actually absorbed/considered by the devs?
    It's been the same since 2010.. the way you deliver your content is so much more impactful than your actual content, that's just the nature of how human interaction works. I sincerely wish everyone understood this fully, and those who would be emotionally charged (we've all been there) put just a bit more effort into the way they deliver their content.. as it can only be a net gain for everyone involved.
    Zek wrote: »
    You're right, it's gotten a lot worse. That's why I don't typically post (or read) here anymore, it's a bummer to see a community I used to be part of turn so negative. My point is, just try to understand why the dev team chooses not to act on what might appear to be an "overwhelming majority" of criticism coming from the forums - in part it's because of selection bias of the people still posting here. It's not only new players that the changes are for, but also the rest of the community that doesn't post here anymore or never did. Taking forum feedback with a grain of salt is game development 101.

    Well, when well reasoned polite arguments are ignored, people tend to get frustrated and become less civil. Its a two way street.
    cooliticmigalskid0ped0g
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind youMembers Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Well, when well reasoned polite arguments are ignored, people tend to get frustrated and become less civil. Its a two way street.

    Agreed that this is what's happening to a certain degree, but most (not all) people here have not gotten to the point of being toxic because of it. It seems that certain people on this forum just can't take criticism, thus it is best to ignore them. If you can't take criticism, no one will want to deal with you, it's that simple.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


    Alite
  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    The changes/fixes we've suggested comply with what the devs claim they wanted for the features and improve the overall game for everyone.

    You cannot improve the overall game for everyone and im sure the devs know this.
    What do you think was the intention behind the ninja hitbox change?
    Im sure they wanted to test this with the knowledge that its useless to discuss this change here in the forum before.

    xDragon nailed it, right now the devs walking on a fine line where they want to please as much player as possible.
    The result are minor changes without a real dumbdown.
    But it looks like these small changes are already too much for some individuals.

    We have around 300 player each day while the same 15 people here in the forium claiming "The devs dont listen to the community" aka these 15 players.
    Are these 15 really know what the other 275 players want/need?
    I dont think so.
    They are speaking for themself, nothing more.
    Post edited by dePARA on
    image
  • PelargirPelargir Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Forum staff Join Date: 2013-07-02 Member: 185857Posts: 1,199 mod
    dePARA wrote: »
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    The changes/fixes we've suggested comply with what the devs claim they wanted for the features and improve the overall game for everyone.

    You cannot improve the overall game for everyone and im sure the devs know this.
    What do you think was the intention behind the ninja hitbox change?
    Im sure they wanted to test this with the knowledge that its useless to discuss this change here in the forum before.

    xDragon nailed it, right know the devs walking on a fine line where they want to please as much player as possible.
    The result are minor changes without a real dumbdown.
    But it looks like these small changes are already too much for some individuals.

    We have around 300 player each day while the same 15 people here in the forium claiming "The devs dont listen to the community" aka these 15 players.
    Are these 15 really know what the other 275 players want/need?
    I dont think so.
    They are speaking for themself, nothing more.

    Who are you speaking for?
    "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"

    "However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results."


  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    Its MY personal opinion.
    And when i post possible ideas to improve the game they are personal opinions either.
    I would never be so overbearing to think that i speak for a whole community.
    image
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United StatesMembers Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Posts: 729 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    Way to quote me and completely ignore the point I made..
    dePARA wrote: »
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    The changes/fixes we've suggested comply with what the devs claim they wanted for the features and improve the overall game for everyone.

    xDragon nailed it, right now the devs walking on a fine line where they want to please as much player as possible.

    If that's the case then there's no reason not to implement some of our suggestions.. They keep what the devs want (hp bar/better shooting feel) while keeping the community happy.

    You keep on with this speaking for the whole community nonsense... Really dude even if we're a small minority like you claim, the suggested fixes are a win for EVERYONE. Even those who don't care enough to post are going to benefit.

    Unless next you're going to tell me that locking the hp bar to the crosshair or hud and reskinning it to match the rest of the game would suddenly make this huge majority that never visits the forum make accounts and rage post at bad dev changes?...
    Post edited by MoFo1 on
  • HandschuhHandschuh Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Community Developer Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44338Posts: 387 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    snb wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain there was no sprinting in NS1 and it worked just fine. Everyone would get used to a removal much faster than they think.
    You're right... but just for the record: In NS1 you always had the option to use several (bhop) movement to improve your speed (which also limited your shooting capabilities since it's usually hard to aim while moving)

    - Strafing... using left and Rightmovements to gain a little bit of speed while running forward
    - Doublejump (on the same heightlevel) - to fastly second jump forward with strafing
    - Strafing / Walking close to a wall with a slight angular to the wall to improve speed
    - Jumping on Higher Levels to jump again to again gain more Speed while Strafing
    - Silencejump - allowed the user to be fast and silent. It is - when executed perfectly - almost as fast as a normal straightforward running marine

    So there were actually quite a lot of options which made marines faster in the earlygame... but since the same bhop mechanic worked much better for the skulks it wasn't that big of an issue.
    In older NS1 Versions there was no Speedpenalty for jumping. This was quite bad, since marines could bunnyhop at insane speeds through the map... faster then any celerity skulk could normally run.
    With the implemenation of the speedpenalty for jumping bhop like this was not possible anymore.
    You could execute the doublejump on the same heightlevel when you crouch while doing the first jump in order to execute the second jump with no speedpenalty

  • FrozenFrozen New York, NYMembers, Constellation Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Posts: 1,481 Advanced user
    Getting any actual value out of the double jump was more of a the-very-highest-level thing, but it was still so much fun to go about trying anyway.
    mattji104
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind youMembers Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    The main issue with marines spreading too fast in NS2 is that NS2 has relatively small maps. This is of course to compensate for the fact that NS2 was meant to be played with less players, but this also allows deathballs to have more map control.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


  • RammlerRammler Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-06-18 Member: 185607Posts: 192 Advanced user
    With build 305 is was stomping as rine. With build 306 i am stomping as skulk.....


    today i got 32% acc as marine in both marine games. But still got a lot of deaths. i am not misshitting the skulk. i just cant kill him fast enough before he kills me. with new bite cones and 15 hp skulking is too easy...
    wya3p5tg.png
    Starksnb
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The NetherlandsMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 15,782 Advanced user
    Rammler wrote: »
    With build 305 is was stomping as rine. With build 306 i am stomping as skulk.....

    You played Onos on the marine team?

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" 

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue | 102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting

  • RammlerRammler Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-06-18 Member: 185607Posts: 192 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Rammler wrote: »
    With build 305 is was stomping as rine. With build 306 i am stomping as skulk.....

    You played Onos on the marine team?

    höhö.

    its not a problem of mid range imo. i think on maps with a lot of ambush spots like docking you have hard times as marine now because skulks have so much health that a close combat is impossible to win.
    imo we should rethink the health update. it is not fighting the problems with the new hitboxes. it just made skulks in close combat too strong and still weak in mid range.
    wya3p5tg.png
    Stark
  • StarkStark Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186336Posts: 32 Advanced user
    Rammler wrote: »
    With build 305 is was stomping as rine. With build 306 i am stomping as skulk.....


    today i got 32% acc as marine in both marine games. But still got a lot of deaths. i am not misshitting the skulk. i just cant kill him fast enough before he kills me. with new bite cones and 15 hp skulking is too easy...

    About 40-45% marine accuracy seems to be the new 35%

    So I just set my toggle to 42% and it's fine
    snb
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Well, when well reasoned polite arguments are ignored, people tend to get frustrated and become less civil. Its a two way street.
    It doesn't work like that..

    There's no promise that what an individual wants will get developed.. the devs want feedback from everyone but what they do with it is - and has always been - up to them. This is also assuming that said feedback is actually a good fit for the game or something that's actually agreed on by the majority of the player base, which often times it isn't. We've all seen the individual's idea posted in here at one time or another and then subsequently the "the devs don't listen, I gave my solution right there!".. the devs do listen to your feedback.. but that doesn't inherently imply they always implement your feedback. It's an important distinction to make, especially in an environment where contributions and ideas are encouraged, and therefore where people get emotionally attached to a project.

    Simply put, I can't think of any other game where the community has shaped the product to this degree, and one would do well to recognize this open space to contribute comes with the caveat that the developers will still do what they think is best.

    Lastly, If people don't get their feedback put into the game, that doesn't suddenly justify forsaking civil feedback..??
    In fact, if you read my comment, it typically just results in your feedback getting written off. You're still better off providing your argument or feedback in a civil manner, regardless of whether it is implemented or not.

    Even in my most passionate moments of objection over the years, and there has been a few, (@McGlaspie refers to them as "going full IronMode") I still present my argument clearly and do my best to refrain from outright vitriol despite the insane level of frustration I am in.. because I know what really impacts decision making.

    If one is an upset player/contributor, I recommend adapting to this reality for maximum impact. Else, your contributing feedback risks being lost in a sea of emotionally charged noise. (which is still feedback, mind you, just not quality feedback that benefits all)


    @Alite I was not remotely speaking about your actions or words in this thread, just speaking generally, my friend.

    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
    Zefram
  • AeglosAeglos Members Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Posts: 644 Advanced user
    IronHorse wrote: »
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Well, when well reasoned polite arguments are ignored, people tend to get frustrated and become less civil. Its a two way street.
    It doesn't work like that..

    There's no promise that what an individual wants will get developed.. the devs want feedback from everyone but what they do with it is - and has always been - up to them. This is also assuming that said feedback is actually a good fit for the game or something that's actually agreed on by the majority of the player base, which often times it isn't. We've all seen the individual's idea posted in here at one time or another and then subsequently the "the devs don't listen, I gave my solution right there!".. the devs do listen to your feedback.. but that doesn't inherently imply they always implement your feedback. It's an important distinction to make, especially in an environment where contributions and ideas are encouraged, and therefore where people get emotionally attached to a project.

    Simply put, I can't think of any other game where the community has shaped the product to this degree, and one would do well to recognize this open space to contribute comes with the caveat that the developers will still do what they think is best.

    Lastly, If people don't get their feedback put into the game, that doesn't suddenly justify forsaking civil feedback..??
    In fact, if you read my comment, it typically just results in your feedback getting written off. You're still better off providing your argument or feedback in a civil manner, regardless of whether it is implemented or not.

    Even in my most passionate moments of objection over the years, and there has been a few, (@McGlaspie refers to them as "going full IronMode") I still present my argument clearly and do my best to refrain from outright vitriol despite the insane level of frustration I am in.. because I know what really impacts decision making.

    If one is an upset player/contributor, I recommend adapting to this reality for maximum impact. Else, your contributing feedback risks being lost in a sea of emotionally charged noise. (which is still feedback, mind you, just not quality feedback that benefits all)


    @Alite I was not remotely speaking about your actions or words in this thread, just speaking generally, my friend.

    What? I'm talking about just getting a response. See, communication involves engaging the other party, not just putting out one sided statements that don't really address anything. There is immense frustration in repeating yourself to no avail. Have you never talked to anyone who insisted on continuing on their current train of thought when the conversation is about something else and no amount of correcting them can put them on the right track? That's how we feel, when we even get a response. Most of the time, we get silence.

    I'm sorry that you took this so out of context and typed up that wall for nothing. I didn't realise that we were so far apart in understanding. I should have been much more specific for you.
    Keatscoolitic
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