Update 306 is now live on steam! - Natural Selection 2

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  • d0ped0gd0ped0g Members Join Date: 2003-05-25 Member: 16679Posts: 782 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    MaxAmus wrote: »
    Everyone remembers how the skulks played when NS2 was 1st released - Flying demon dogs from outer space blink and you miss them, they then got nerfed so far to say that, if i pick up a brick and throw it, it only goes one direaction with very little movment in the air, at one speed that slows down.

    So with the change of hitbox plus the skulks HP and speed, i am hoping that playing a skulk will be good and fun again, and not feel like a flying brick but not OP, as marines "should" be able to hit the skulks better now. so all in all, seems that these changes "MAY" be good.

    Now i shall wait and see.

    Huh? Weren't skulks bricks until BT-mod? That's how I remember it.

    I recall that around release or perhaps in the beta there was some insane ceiling (or lack thereof) in the speed that skulks could achieve through walljumping. But this often required specific routes that needed a lot of practice. Only a handful of people in AUS could pull it off IIRC.

    Maybe movement has been nerfed since BT? It has almost certainly been buffed since release. Like many others, I was on the verge of quitting because of brick skulks, which thankfully were since corrected.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in KodiakMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Posts: 4,771 Advanced user
    I remember b239 being the brick skulk patch. I don't remember b249 having brick skulks.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    @RevanCorana

    Thirdperson command is not accurately visualized for animations. You can try Onos or the Fade too, and you'll notice wonky things that you never see in game (like fade twitching etc)
    Get an example from first person
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Members Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Posts: 571 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    @IronHorse Thirdperson might cause the twitching but not the left/right leg teleportation

    See how broken it looks compared to CS GO
    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/jHrvl5xkTQc?rel=0&quot; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ym8J-yUp3BU?rel=0&quot; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    Post edited by RevanCorana on
    Yojimbotwiliteblue
  • BicsumBicsum Members, Reinforced - Gold Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    You've got a point. In CS:GO your left foot it always in front and strafing will make you do sidesteps.
    In NS2 your whole lower body is changing direction when you strafe into another direction.

    However, I think it would look weird in NS2, if you were doing side steps in the same speed as if you were moving forward.

    I'm assuming it works in Csgo, because it is slower.
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Members Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Posts: 571 Advanced user
    Bicsum wrote: »
    You've got a point. In CS:GO your left foot it always in front and strafing will make you do sidesteps.
    In NS2 your whole lower body is changing direction...
    *instantly*
    that's the problem they just need to create and add a change direction animation because currently there is none so you instantly jump between going left and going right animation
    I'm assuming it works in Csgo, because it is slower.
    No because CS devs know how to make animations
  • BicsumBicsum Members, Reinforced - Gold Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    A change direction animation might still look weird, if you accelerate to max movement speed in an almost instant.

    If you make the turning animation slower, your feet would face to the front for a short moment of time, while you're not actually walking in that direction.
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Members Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Posts: 571 Advanced user
    this is not a matter of speed or acceleration just open your eyes and look at the video again
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Members Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Posts: 571 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    the movement speed of CS GO is very similar by the way. It's the acceleration that is a bit less, nothing significant tho.
  • BicsumBicsum Members, Reinforced - Gold Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksp_q0rydI0

    0:28 0:49 1:47 2:11

    Look at the animation. The body does not change direction at all. When you're strafing left your model is essentially slightly walking backwards. Now imagine this in NS2, where you walk/run with 2.2 meters per second as a marine.
    It would just look weird if you had the csgo sidestepping/backwards walking animation with the ns2 marine speed.

    Overwatch has a slower turning animation, but it still looks kind of spastic when you tap A/D.
    giphy.gif
    giphy.gif
    giphy.gif

    Post edited by Bicsum on
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    ..You're still relying on the thirdperson command to make your comparison..

    Seriously, try to reproduce it in first person and see if it looks the same. I've seen many a marine shuffle fast like that, but the animation for the legs have never looked that spastic.
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
    Vetinaricooliticsoccerguy243
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    Here's what it actually looks like in first person (legs are far less spastic).. but even then to get the legs to do that, you're really not shuffling adequately by staying in place.
    I don't see this as big of an issue as marine legs disappearing from your view due to the jump animation and default FOV.
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
    remiBicsumVetinaricoolitic
  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    Well, the NS2 animations are indeed not good. But saying CS:go is far better is, well, wrong.
    In CS:Go people running around like having a stick in the ass.

    If you want a reference, take this:
    image
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The NetherlandsMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 15,782 Advanced user
    snb wrote: »
    And thanks to IronHorse, I am somehow stuck in an infinite YouTube loop of girls dancing in tight clothes.

    Help!

    I fail to see the problem...

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" 

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue | 102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting

    Yojimbo.trixX.
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Members Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Posts: 571 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    @IronHorse yes honestly it's still on the spasmatic end of the spectrum
    Bicsum wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksp_q0rydI0

    0:28 0:49 1:47 2:11

    Look at the animation. The body does not change direction at all. When you're strafing left your model is essentially slightly walking backwards. Now imagine this in NS2, where you walk/run with 2.2 meters per second as a marine.
    It would just look weird if you had the csgo sidestepping/backwards walking animation with the ns2 marine speed.

    Overwatch has a slower turning animation, but it still looks kind of spastic when you tap A/D.
    giphy.gif
    giphy.gif
    giphy.gif

    No it's really not a problem of the marine speed in NS2. It is very much alike, however I agree that CSGO animations are stiff (because made for slower headshot gameplay not because movement speed requires it).
    A proper running animation doesn't trigger exactly when the player press the button, it starts after the model accelerated a certain speed.

    A or D should be the "MOVE THERE" button not the "ACTIVATE ANIMATION BUTTON" otherwise it can be abused and as I said spamming A/D really fast is not worth a gameplay mechanic especially if it exploits broken animation to look random then it's basically 50/50 completely luck based, you want luck based in NS2? I don't

    If you look at Overwatch which has the most recent and high budget animations out of the bunch, that's exactly what happens McCree keeps his normal walk cycle until a certain speed thershold activates the strafe animation like CSGO with fancier animations.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    @IronHorse yes honestly it's still on the spasmatic end of the spectrum

    ok.. sure.. but.. it doesn't change the ability of skulk bites to connect, especially because the marine isn't really dodging by doing that, they're staying in the same place essentially?
    So it's just an aesthetic issue imo.
    And again, an adequate marine shuffle doesn't look anything like that.
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NYMembers, Constellation Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Posts: 1,481 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    Gotta just look at his ****, and you're good
    mattji104
  • Deck_Deck_ Members Join Date: 2014-07-20 Member: 197526Posts: 298 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    IronHorse wrote: »
    @IronHorse yes honestly it's still on the spasmatic end of the spectrum

    ok.. sure.. but.. it doesn't change the ability of skulk bites to connect, especially because the marine isn't really dodging by doing that, they're staying in the same place essentially?
    So it's just an aesthetic issue imo.
    And again, an adequate marine shuffle doesn't look anything like that.

    I disagree with this only being an aesthetic issue. You do see some good strafers do that movement till you get close. I think going from a spastic movement into a more wider strafe is effective because it's hard to get a read on what the marine is doing.

    I think it would be easier to know what you are looking at if the movement was smoother and could help aliens. If aliens can see movement clear, that could lead to them hitting a higher percentage of their bites. I think aliens missing is one the biggest issues with game-play right now. The bite cone is already really good for a skulk now, but it's hard to get the movement of the game down and a decent part of that could be the lack of smoothness of the marine animation. Yea, the game would probably look better too.
    Post edited by Deck_ on
    twiliteblue
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind youMembers Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    Deck_ wrote: »
    I disagree with this only being an aesthetic issue. You do see some good strafers do that movement till you get close. I think going from a spastic movement into a more wider strafe is effective because it's hard to get a read on what the marine is doing.

    So he's just feinting? I don't see how changing the animation would fix that in any way, nor do I see how that's a problem.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


  • Deck_Deck_ Members Join Date: 2014-07-20 Member: 197526Posts: 298 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    coolitic wrote: »
    Deck_ wrote: »
    I disagree with this only being an aesthetic issue. You do see some good strafers do that movement till you get close. I think going from a spastic movement into a more wider strafe is effective because it's hard to get a read on what the marine is doing.

    So he's just feinting? I don't see how changing the animation would fix that in any way, nor do I see how that's a problem.

    It could make no difference. I just think it would be easier for aliens to predict marine movement if it looked smoother and it didn't look like good marines that know how to strafe are disappearing on them. I think aliens in this game need that kind of help and it would make the game look better. I say, why not?
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Members Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Posts: 571 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    IronHorse wrote: »
    What about you redo this but in bite range this time
    Post edited by RevanCorana on
    Daveodeth
  • DaveodethDaveodeth Members Join Date: 2012-11-21 Member: 172717Posts: 280 Advanced user
    Yeah
    IronHorse wrote: »
    What about you redo this but in bite range this time

    This, it looks damn weird.
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind youMembers Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    Deck_ wrote: »
    I say, why not?

    Because it requires work and the benefits are minimal.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


    IronHorse
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Members Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Posts: 571 Advanced user
    biased opinion alert
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    IronHorse wrote: »
    What about you redo this but in bite range this time

    Your turn, I already produced something after informing you of how to ;)
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
    Nordic
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Members Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Posts: 571 Advanced user
    Because you know, then that'd be actually useful
  • WobWob Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2005-04-08 Member: 47814Posts: 485 Advanced user
    IronHorse wrote: »
    @IronHorse yes honestly it's still on the spasmatic end of the spectrum

    ok.. sure.. but.. it doesn't change the ability of skulk bites to connect, especially because the marine isn't really dodging by doing that, they're staying in the same place essentially?
    So it's just an aesthetic issue imo.
    And again, an adequate marine shuffle doesn't look anything like that.

    I thought it wasn't about pragmatism, but more about "feel"...
    .trixX.
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