Update 306 is now live on steam! - Natural Selection 2

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  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 687 Advanced user
    Mephilles wrote: »
    just saying I'm a guy who used to shoot 23% (before hotbox changes)
    de94534e43.jpg
    okay this was also far better than most other rounds I played with new hitboxes

    You were on a good day against bad players... and you killed 3 gorges... pretty sure this doesn't represent the masses. e.g I could cherry pick a screenshot pre hitbox change where I shot 34%... every knows I can't shoot for shit and am generally at lower than 20%.

    Have the hitboxes made an impact? yes, of course they have... is the impact as dire as people are making out? hell no.
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
    halfofaheaven
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members Posts: 729 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    Kasharic wrote: »

    Have the hitboxes made an impact? yes, of course they have... is the impact as dire as people are making out? hell no.

    I dunno it is a pretty extreme impact. The simple fact that I was able to get 8 kills before dying, on a map I'd never seen, against good skulk players.. let alone killing 3 of them when they rushed me... In 2700+ hours I've never done that good on Marine unless the skulks are rookies who run in straight lines and never jump.
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    Same here. I can win engagements against 2-3 good skulks, which never happened before.
    Also, getting killed around corners while escaping happens much more frequently now, which is a huge con in terms of how the game feels.
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
    Benson
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Members Posts: 571 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    .trixX. wrote: »
    getting killed around corners while escaping happens much more frequently now

    if the marine has a clear line of sight shouldnt he be able to hit you then?

    the problem is not so about bad/average players getting a bit better it's much more about the already +30% pre-change marines that become now extremely thorny to deal with as they basically solo fades while using team positioning that will ensure that you die to their teammates (in lemming packs behind them) even when they fall.

    and it's made worse by the phenomenon that once a team notices a player is exceptionally good teamplay usually falls apart for some reason and you can see skulks going 1 by 1 feed said player until basically game over completely forgetting about resbiting.

    I feel like what wouldve been a FAIR change balance wise after giving bigger hitbox to aliens wouldve been to nerf marines movement speed.

  • dePARAdePARA Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    After the HP buff i survive much more engagements now compared to 305 in early game as skulk, many with 10-15 hp left. (Dead in 305)
    The last wonitor stats on TTO show a noticable shift into more alien wins now (Maybe the smurf bans helped here also).

    thirstyonos.com/wonitor/configurator.html#x=version&y=count&t=winner&tNormalize&numPlayers_ge=12&serverId_ne=4180firrDn
    Same on Wooza:
    http://www.apheriox.com/wonitor/configurator.html#x=version&y=count&t=winner&tNormalize&numPlayers_ge=12&serverId_is=po6yMII6Le

    So it looks like Win/Loss is back to normal now aka buff was succesfull.
    Post edited by dePARA on
    image
    IronHorse
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 959 Advanced user
    yeah you got me @Kasharic I just wanted to brag for once :tongue:
    return to zero
  • FoxyFoxy United Kingdom Join Date: 2014-08-19 Member: 198032Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 470 Advanced user
    Mattk50 wrote: »
    The b team devs have really lost it huh

    u r 2 edgy 4 me
    Nordic
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,771 Advanced user
    Using 5 servers with a few hundred games, aliens were back up to 58% win rates
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    I'd slighty reduce the skulk hp, because currently non cara skulks are surviving mines with 9 hp, making mines pretty cost ineffective. Instead of that ~9 hp, increase the skulks base speed slightly. That would be good a compromise between fun and accessibility.
    IronHorseFoxyhalfofaheaven.trixX.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,466 Advanced user
    Bicsum wrote: »
    I'd slighty reduce the skulk hp, because currently non cara skulks are surviving mines with 9 hp, making mines pretty cost ineffective. Instead of that ~9 hp, increase the skulks base speed slightly. That would be good a compromise between fun and accessibility.

    I would just give mines ten extra damage.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
  • dePARAdePARA Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    Over 60% of the games are played on rookie pubs now. So whats the problem here.

    After all the whining about "the bad hitreg" while the hitreg was never that bad the same people whining about slightly bigger hitboxes now wich should gave them a better result/hitdetection.
    Most of the "The hitreg is so bad" whiners are playing Overwatch now. Kinda funny.
    THIS game has laughable hitboxes and hitreg btw. but thats another story.

    image
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    Bicsum wrote: »
    I'd slighty reduce the skulk hp, because currently non cara skulks are surviving mines with 9 hp, making mines pretty cost ineffective. Instead of that ~9 hp, increase the skulks base speed slightly. That would be good a compromise between fun and accessibility.

    I would just give mines ten extra damage.

    Possible, but less fun.
  • Deck_Deck_ Join Date: 2014-07-20 Member: 197526Members Posts: 298 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    Bicsum wrote: »
    I'd slighty reduce the skulk hp, because currently non cara skulks are surviving mines with 9 hp, making mines pretty cost ineffective. Instead of that ~9 hp, increase the skulks base speed slightly. That would be good a compromise between fun and accessibility.

    You could increase skulk base speed or make the skulk slightly smaller. Not sure if increasing the hp of the skulk is the best method. Good point about mines not working the same, you would have to increase mine damage if they wanted to keep the hp of skulks where it's at or there is no point to mines. Random point, one of the best changes I can think UWE made to the game somewhat recently was allowing skulks to destroy mines with 3 parasites. Good change.
    Bicsum
  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,252 Advanced user
    Handschuh wrote: »
    Bicsum wrote: »
    I'd slighty reduce the skulk hp, because currently non cara skulks are surviving mines with 9 hp, making mines pretty cost ineffective. Instead of that ~9 hp, increase the skulks base speed slightly. That would be good a compromise between fun and accessibility.

    I would just give mines ten extra damage.

    It's just embarassing that this simple issue isn't adressed in some way with the hp patch.. sure ppl could/should have found it while testing.(or they even may have)
    But this renders Mines at RTs obsolete and takes another depth area away...

    Remind me how much damage mines do again?
    Today's rookies are tomorrow's vets.

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

    George Carlin.
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    .trixX. wrote: »
    getting killed around corners while escaping happens much more frequently now
    if the marine has a clear line of sight shouldnt he be able to hit you then?
    But I'm not in his line of sight :) Every game has some form of issue with dying after running around a corner, but the enlarged hitboxes only made it worse. Sure, hitting skulks "feels" better now, but on the other hand bailing out of an engagement feels worse.
    Multiplayer games need quantum tunneling for relaying and quantum computing for routing! Fok the military :D

    dePARA wrote: »
    So it looks like Win/Loss is back to normal now aka buff was succesfull.
    Never mind the rest of the ripple effects, some of which had been mentioned above.
    Keep balancing so the game can be balanced for the balance of the game!

    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,252 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    Blrg wrote: »
    Yojimbo wrote: »
    Remind me how much damage mines do again?

    WEAPONS UPGRADES:

    By the way, I just now realized that riflebutt, axe, and exos increase damage with weapon upgrades. Seems like the only things not increasing damage are GLs, grenades, flamethrowers and mines. Not completely related to this topic, but I didn't know that...

    Rifle butt damage increases with weapon upgrades? What do they do? Sharpen the butt of the rifle? Doesn't make sense.

    Wow GG another hidden mechanic lol
    Today's rookies are tomorrow's vets.

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

    George Carlin.
    Blrg
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,466 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    Yojimbo wrote: »
    Blrg wrote: »
    Yojimbo wrote: »
    Remind me how much damage mines do again?

    WEAPONS UPGRADES:

    By the way, I just now realized that riflebutt, axe, and exos increase damage with weapon upgrades. Seems like the only things not increasing damage are GLs, grenades, flamethrowers and mines. Not completely related to this topic, but I didn't know that...

    Rifle butt damage increases with weapon upgrades? What do they do? Sharpen the butt of the rifle? Doesn't make sense.

    Wow GG another hidden mechanic lol

    Little known fact: Weapon upgrades actually upgrade the nanites in the marines body, thus allowing him to hit harder.

    edit: or her*
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
    Blrgcoolitic
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    Sharp butts for everyone!
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
    YojimboBlrgcooliticHEllrunner2k
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    Yojimbo wrote: »
    Blrg wrote: »
    Yojimbo wrote: »
    Remind me how much damage mines do again?

    WEAPONS UPGRADES:

    By the way, I just now realized that riflebutt, axe, and exos increase damage with weapon upgrades. Seems like the only things not increasing damage are GLs, grenades, flamethrowers and mines. Not completely related to this topic, but I didn't know that...

    Rifle butt damage increases with weapon upgrades? What do they do? Sharpen the butt of the rifle? Doesn't make sense.

    Wow GG another hidden mechanic lol

    Little known fact: Weapon upgrades actually upgrade the nanites in the marines body, thus allowing him to hit harder.

    edit: or her*

    Or maybe it adds thumb tacks to the rifle butt.
    Blrg
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    7uhrzr2y9oq7.png
    I have a feeling this day will be quite productive.
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • dePARAdePARA Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    Every change need a bit finetuning after that.
    I really cant understand why so many people in this community have problems with little changes that didnt break the core game.

    In an comp enviromnent these changes might be a gamebreaker but in pub, where 1hr rookies play against 2500hrs div1 vets?
    I dont think so.
    In the end the hitdetection increased on both sides.

    But it looks like we have only sharpshooters here who can easy track every single leg of an skulk while he is running and jumping around the rine.
    There tracking is so awesome that they realized in there 1st round in 305, that the hitbox has changed.

    Hmm, cant remember any posts about hitboxes 1 day after 305 release.



    image
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    Have you played the game? Pple are constantly complaining in chat (TTO, SoTF)

    EDIT:
    And also, why can't we have an update that addresses these issues in one round? Why do the devs leave out so obvious fixes? Don't tell me they want to test the change, because that may have held with hitboxes, but mine and grenade damages are exact. You can calculate those and compensate right away, not wait for the community outcry.
    It's not one step-at-a-time, but lack of holistic thinking (as it seems, and in this case)
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • dePARAdePARA Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    I have played the game, yes. I see always the same people complaining about every little BS.
    So nothing has changed.
    image
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    I see you know the community quite well. Weren't you the guy who lashed out on new players - that they are stupid and can't play aliens, that's why the marine stomp - when the hitbox update came out?
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • dePARAdePARA Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    I said nothing has changed.


    And yes, new players cant play aliens. There still running on the floor straight into multiple rines and die.
    Post edited by IronHorse on
    image
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