<!--QuoteBegin-Blammo8+Jun 3 2005, 01:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Blammo8 @ Jun 3 2005, 01:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Shouldn't an argument be proven real before you can use it as an argument? Else it's just speculation. You can't make a point on speculation, you can break a point with speculation.
This post has nothing to do with religion or god's existance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If you can only use proven arguments, there will be very little, if anything, you can debate. Rather, the way to approach it, is to state your angle, and give the assumtions your angle is based on, and the logic you use to link your angle to your basic assumtions.
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 3 2005, 11:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 3 2005, 11:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You'd have to allow Cyndane access also. As I recall she was adamant Sunday Schools do not allow discussion of the Bible , only teaching it (she had <b>NO</b> proof). I am living proof that discussion of the Bible in Sunday School exists, and often in the Protestant religion. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> {Off topic rant, once more}
I am growing increasingly tired of the snide comments Depot. You are not contributing to anything by making them, especially when they have no actual basis on anything. They are purely your opinions, which is one of the main reasons I stopped replying to you, before this post.
I shall address the sunday school issue below, as I did before in the other topic before it was locked and I edited out what didn't need to be there.
Due to the fact you(live in florida) and I have lived in a few different demographic areas, Sunday school here means you are sent(to school usually in a church basement/classroom) there to learn about god from teachers, whether they be ministers or whatever. Where I come from it is called either A) Youth Group, or B) Bible study.
Different terminology is not the same as no evidence, I did state in that thread, you just choose to ignore it, like all the other evidence I presented.
Blammo is correct, and we are not trying to pick on you metalcat, but alot of here in the discussion forums, like to have evidence to back up said claims, and while you are not alone, metalcat, it makes it much easier to follow if you could at least back up what you are saying with some sort of logic.
The generic concept that "religion makes you stupid/bad/etc." Doesn't really mean much to the average person, because, there is no reason given.
You state the bible/koran/tora/vedas/ is/are not true, but you have yet to provide any factual evidence for any of it, other then your word.
While your word may be good enough for where you live, in a discussion or debate if you prefer you must at least bring something to the table in order for us to either A) prove you wrong B) agree by finding matching evidence.
I would enjoy reading your posts more metalcat, but its hard to follow when there is no logic involved and then the lack of evidence just kind of makes it a waste of type for you to be even typing. Of course the same can be said for some of the other gross generalizations that have occurred before, but most people have learned from them. I haven't seen any learning on your part just yet, but I do hope you will learn from at least this post if not the countless others before me.
{This ended up longer then I expected, but it did need to be said, even if it is quite off topic}
<!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+Jun 3 2005, 02:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane @ Jun 3 2005, 02:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 3 2005, 11:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 3 2005, 11:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You'd have to allow Cyndane access also. As I recall she was adamant Sunday Schools do not allow discussion of the Bible , only teaching it (she had <b>NO</b> proof). I am living proof that discussion of the Bible in Sunday School exists, and often in the Protestant religion. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> {Off topic rant, once more}
I am growing increasingly tired of the snide comments Depot. You are not contributing to anything by making them, especially when they have no actual basis on anything. They are purely your opinions, which is one of the main reasons I stopped replying to you, before this post.
I shall address the sunday school issue below, as I did before in the other topic before it was locked and I edited out what didn't need to be there.
Due to the fact you(live in florida) and I have lived in a few different demographic areas, Sunday school here means you are sent(to school usually in a church basement/classroom) there to learn about god from teachers, whether they be ministers or whatever. Where I come from it is called either A) Youth Group, or B) Bible study.
Different terminology is not the same as no evidence, I did state in that thread, you just choose to ignore it, like all the other evidence I presented.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No snide comments Cyndane, you are simply as guilty as metalcat or AvengerX of stating gross inacuracies without proof and therefore should be included in their special forum.
The fact I currently live in Florida is as irrelevant as you living in South Dakota. Don't think that you're the only one involved in these discussions that's been outside of the U.S., because you're not. I have lived in several foreign countries and also studied their religion while I was there. Your condescending attitude is really getting old, as are your constant incorrect assumptions.
The post you edited out in reference to Sunday School made no reference whatsoever to a difference in terminology. You flat out said that the Bible was taught and not discussed, period. I showed you where you were incorrect.
Yes, your final post before the thread was locked found you backtracking to cover your behind, but the post you edited out is where you erred. Get off your high horse, you are fallible just like the rest of us.
<!--QuoteBegin-pieceofsoap+Jun 3 2005, 02:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (pieceofsoap @ Jun 3 2005, 02:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <b>God</b> you two, get a room, or something, jeez! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I just had to highlight that unintentional pun <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This is my last response to you. I am really growing weary of this, as I am sure everyone else is too.
I apologize soap, and I will not feed the troll anymore, after this. <!--QuoteBegin-depot+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (depot)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No snide comments Cyndane, you are simply as guilty as metalcat or AvengerX of stating gross inacuracies without proof and therefore should be included in their special forum <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Incorrect, just view any of my other posts in any other topic and try once more.
<!--QuoteBegin-depot+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (depot)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The fact I currently live in Florida is as irrelevant as you living in South Dakota. Don't think that you're the only one involved in these discussions that's been outside of the U.S., because you're not. I have lived in several foreign countries and also studied their religion while I was there. Your condescending attitude is really getting old, as are your constant incorrect assumptions. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Various areas in the country call many things by different names, take Pop for example, east coast it is Soda, Maine is called Coke (reguardless of which company). Here, and where I have traveled, I have not stayed extensively in florida, nor have I ever lived there. Sunday school is where children go to learn about god. There is no discussion, at least no serious(read: in-depth; most children do not have the self-awareness to ask indepth questions) discussion.
<!--QuoteBegin-depot+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (depot)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yes, your final post before the thread was locked found you backtracking to cover your behind, but the post you edited out is where you erred. Get off your high horse, you are fallible just like the rest of us. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, there was no back tracking, I realize my mistake and fixed it, so the thread wasn't 10(only 8, hehe) pages long anymore. There was no reason for half of the things that were said to even be there as they had no bearing on the discussion at hand, it was only myself defending my position from you, with out you having evidence as well, other then your own experiences (but obviously yours are "better" then mine, as evidenced by that thread, since you can dismiss mine out of hand, but yours matter. Hypocrisy is not becoming of anyone.)
{I am done now, lets get back to the topic at hand? If there is one left anymore?}
*edit* @Filthylarry, wow, even after that you still made me laugh. Thanks for getting me in trouble at work. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 3 2005, 01:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 3 2005, 01:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Aegeri+Jun 3 2005, 01:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Aegeri @ Jun 3 2005, 01:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I personally would love to see the mods open a forum where only you and avengerx can post, and have you two go at it with no evidence to back up either one of any claims.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd support it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You'd have to allow Cyndane access also. As I recall she was adamant Sunday Schools do not allow discussion of the Bible , only teaching it (she had <b>NO</b> proof). I am living proof that discussion of the Bible in Sunday School exists, and often in the Protestant religion. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just for the record, the thread was about Sunday Schools for children, not Bible Study classes that you mention to have gone to. I know I went to Sunday School for a few years. Suffice it to say, I have a clearer perception of children's Sunday School than you do, and at least where <u>I</u> went to school, there was no discussion. You memorized the passages, the lessons were hammered into your heads, but detailed explanations were often lacking, let alone actual discussions with opposing viewpoints.
That said, stop dragging other (locked) threads into this discussion, or get out of this forum if you can't stay on-topic. It'll save a lot of headaches for all of us.
[ontopic] Metalcat, how about citing sources, quoting the Bible, showing inconsistincies, etc. All your posts in this entire thread have basically consisted of "The Bible is WRONG! Just look at it! It's WRONG!" Even if we were inclined to believe you, you're not going to convince anyone with an argument based solely on an explosive and irrational opinion.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Jun 3 2005, 02:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Jun 3 2005, 02:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just for the record, the thread was about Sunday Schools for children, not Bible Study classes that you mention to have gone to. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Umm, It wasnt about Sunday Schools, last time I checked...
Well, it was about raising children with religion, and Depot specifically mentioned his bible study classes as disproving Cyndane's argument that Sunday Schools don't foster discussion about the Bible, which, as I just said, is a poor comparison.
<!--QuoteBegin-Dessidious Confuzor+Jun 2 2005, 06:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dessidious Confuzor @ Jun 2 2005, 06:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->One of the things I've been largely wondering about is just what exactly the term "Christian" conjures to the average person. I am increasingly under the impression that Christianity's been monopolized under the banner of the Conservative White Man's Religion - Affirm/Deny?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <a href='http://www.russpickett.com/basic/christan.htm' target='_blank'>What is a Christian</a> This pretty well sums up my feelings on what it means to be a Christian.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You may think this to be an unnecessary document, but it is becoming "increasingly obvious" that most people don't have the slightest idea what Christianity is, or what it means to be a Christian.
On a recent poll over 90% of Americans defined themselves as "Christians". If this was true, the Churches would be packed out every day of the week. If this was true "abortion" and the alleged "alternate lifestyle" would not be tolerated, and the smut you see on television wouldn't be on - there would be no market for it.
If this was true then the Internet wouldn't have "over 80,000 sites" devoted to pornography, many of which are advocating pedophilia. "No", there are not that many Christians in America, though we pray to God that there one day will be.
This article deals with what "Christianity is", and what the marks of a "bona fide Christian" are. Before anyone joins the church that I belong to we have made it a practice for them to take a class with our pastor, and make sure they understand the basics of Christianity and that they have salvation prior to excepting them into membership. A lot of people are "joining the Church" and equating this to Christianity. "No", that's not Christianity.
The word "Christian" was actually attached to the believers in Christ by nonbeliever as a ridicule years ago, a way to make fun of them. The word actually means "little Christ".
Rather than taking this offensively, we embraced the term from the start. You see, "Christianity" is a both a system of spiritual growth and a state of being developed by our Creator God for those who have accepted Jesus Christ as Savior.
If you are a Christian then you exist within this Divine System. This study will give you numerous points and Biblical references to define what a Christian is so will will need to look up some of the scripture references yourself. This is basically meant to be a study guide. Once you look up all of these references, meditate on them, study them, you will understand what "Christian" means and know the difference between the Churches building and the Church of Christ. If you have merely "joined a Church" or are "doing good works", yet have never accepted Christ as Savior, you are still lost in Satan's system called "worldliness".
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>The Christian IS</span>
<b>1. A person who has repented of following Satan's policies of evil and has freely chosen to accept Jesus Christ as Savior in their heart.</b>
Christianity is more than just a "simple profession" of faith as so many think today. It actually entails two things:
A "profession of Faith" (accepting Jesus Christ as a personal Lord and Savior) and,
"Repenting" from your former way of being. (changing the old life style) The Bible defines the "heart" of man as the thinking part of his soul:
Proverbs 23:7 "For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee."
Proverbs 2:2 "So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding."
This is your very innermost being. The unbeliever (a person who has not accepted Christ and repented), that person who is still lost in his sins, rejects Jesus Christ in his heart:
Zechariah 7:12 "Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the Lord of hosts hath sent in this spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the Lord of hosts."
Let's put it this way: what are you "devoted to?" Did you come to a point in your life where you realized you needed Jesus Christ, and realize that you couldn't live your life without Him? While you were in this state, did you cry out to God "Father, forgive me. I know that I cannot make it on my own. I ask that you save my soul in the name of Jesus". Did you fixate on Christ, clinging to Him as a drowning man would cling to a life preserver?
You see, God looks at the "heart" (inner most being) of each one of us to determine whether we're saved or not (1 Samuel 16:7). You may have walked the aisle and joined with a Church on the good faith of its members, but unless you "devoted your heart", accepted Jesus Christ as Savior in your heart at this one crucial point in your life, and "repented of your old style of life", you are not saved (Psalms 28:7; Romans 10:9-10). Remember, you may fool the preacher and your friends, but you cannot fool God!
<b>2. Once you are in the state of salvation, you are no longer a non-entity, but you are a "Key Player" in the Plan of God: </b>
Romans 8:29-30 "[29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. [30] Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and who he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."
Ephesians 1:11 "In who also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:"
Matthew 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."
Whereas before you had no access to God because of the sin that separates, you are now in a relationship with Him. You are able to talk to and be understood by the full Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ( 2 Corinthians 5:18-20; Colossians 1:20; Romans 5:10; Ephesians 2:14-17 ). Before salvation you were like a radio in a tunnel, and that tunnel (sin) cut you off from communicating with God. You could communicate with all others in the tunnel, all others who were under the sin barrier with you - but God would not hear your prayers (save for the prayer of salvation). After salvation you came out from under that barrier, and now have the freedom, the spiritual ability, to communicate with God and all those who are saved in Christ with you.
<b>3. After salvation, though your ability to sin has not been removed, your ability "not" to sin has been increased. </b>
The comedian Flip Wilson used to do something then say, "The Devil made me do it". Before salvation not the devil, but the Old Sin Nature in you ruled your life. After salvation in Christ you are a new Creation, no longer a slave to that sin nature, but have been given the ever increasing ability to control that nature to the glory of God (Romans 3:24; Colossians 1:14; 1 Peter 1:18). Look, if you're "exactly" the same after your profession and conversion to Christ "you're just not saved, period!"
<b>4. If you are saved, you may slip into sin on occasion. </b>
This is part of the fact that you are not in a glorified body, and are still human. However, the Christian will never be destined for the eternal punishment of Hellfire. The fact that you cried out to God and devoted your life to Christ satisfied God, and He begins to work in your life while you walk this earth. The penalty of your sins are removed from eternity's records (John 3:18; 5:24; Romans 8:1; 3:24-26; 1 John 2:2). When you do slip, God expects you, as His adopted child, to quickly repent of that sin and confess it to Him. These personal sins, once confessed, quickly returns you to a right relationship with your Heavenly Father (1 John 1:8-9; Romans 4:25; Ephesians 1:7; 1 Peter 2:24).
<b>5. Once you have accepted Christ as Savior God Himself identifies you with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. </b>
You are freed from the Mosaic Law, and brought under the spiritual guidance of God's Holy Spirit (Romans 6:4, 6, 8, 14; 7:4, 6; Galatians 2:20-21; 3:25; Colossians 2:12; 3:1, 3; 1 Peter 2:24; 2 Corinthians 3:11). You are a new Creation in and by God Himself, and now possess a body, soul, and spirit whereas the worldly unsaved only possess a body and a soul. (John 1:12; 3:7; 13:10; 1 Corinthians 6:11; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:23; Galatians 3:26; 6:15; 2 Corinthians 5:17; 6:18; 1 John 3:2; Ephesians 2:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:23). You are an "adopted son of God" (Romans 8:15,23; Ephesians 1:5) and are in a family relationship with God the Father.
<b>6. The Christian is righteous in the eyes of God the Father </b>
The reason you are now righteous in the eyes of God the Father is because, at salvation, your declaration or devotion to Christ caused the Spirit of God to place you in union with Christ (Ephesians 1:6; 1 Peter 2:25; Romans 3:22; 1 Corinthians 1:30; 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Philippians 3:9; Hebrews 10:14; Colossians 1:12). This "imputed" or God given righteousness, allows God to declared you righteous in His Courtroom in the Heavens (Romans 3:24; 5:1, 9; 8:30; 1 Corinthians 6:11; Titus 3:7). You now have a citizenship in Heaven, having been delivered from the kingdom of Satan. You are no longer regarded as a citizen of this world, but an ambassador for Christ, representing Him on the earth (Luke 10:20; Ephesians 2:13,19; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 1:13; 2:15). Because you are a work of God, you are secure in your salvation, so secure that you can never lose that salvation (1 Corinthians 3:11; 10:4; Ephesians 2:20). You are a Royal Priest in the service of God forever (1 Peter 2:5, 9; Revelation 1:6).
<b>7. The Christian is one who has access to God anytime he or she desires.</b>
(Romans 5:2; Ephesians 2:18; Hebrews 4:14, 16). If you are a Christian you are under the superior care of God (Ephesians 2:4, 8-9; 4:7; 5:2; Romans 5:2; 1 Peter 1:5; John 17:18; Titus 2:12). You are guaranteed eternal life with God in Heaven (John 3:15; 10:28; 20:31; 1 John 5:11-12).
<b>8. Christians must understand that they are in a new position. </b>
We are no longer of the world, but are:
"Partners with Christ": (Colossians 3:4; 1 Corinthians 1:9), "Workers together with God": (1 Corinthians 3:9; 2 Corinthians 6:1), "Ministers of the New Testament": (2 Corinthians 3:6), "Ambassadors for Christ": (2 Corinthians 5:20), "Living epistles": (2 Corinthians 3:3), "Ministers of God": (2 Corinthians 6:4). "We are united to the Triune God": "To the Father": (1 Thessalonians 1:1; Ephesians 4:6), "To the Son": (1 Corinthians 12:13; John 10:27-29; 15:5; Ephesians 2:21-22; 5:25-27; 1 Peter 5, 9; 2 Corinthians 5:17), "To God the Holy Spirit": (Romans 8:9, 16).
<b>9. The Christian has been the recipient of all the ministries of God's Holy Spirit. </b>
He is indwelt by the Spirit (John 7:39; Romans 5:5; 8:9; 1 Corinthians 3:16; 6:19; Galatians 4:6; 1 John 3:24). He is sealed by the Spirit, marked by God as a Son of God (2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 4:30). The Christian is the recipient of spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:11; 12:27-31; 13:1-2), gifts that should be used in the gathering of the Church to build up other fellow believers (see "Spiritual Gifts"). The Christian has at least one, but possibly more than one spiritual gift (1 Corinthians 12:11, 27-31; 13:1-2). The Christian is Baptized in the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:5; 1 Corinthians 12:13), and Regenerated or made alive (John 3:6).
<b>10. As a Christian you are the possessor of every spiritual blessing.</b>
(Ephesians 1:3). We are given greater blessing as Children of God, but we are also under greater discipline if we walk away from our familial relationship in God (Hebrews 12:5-11). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And Cyndane, just because you say so doesn't mean that's the way it is. Proving your points on these fora involves a lot more than quoting scripture, copying and pasting webpages, and bragging on your accomplishments. I'd also recommend against name calling on here, as that falls under the category of personal attacks and violates community guidelines. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Metalcat+Jun 3 2005, 06:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Metalcat @ Jun 3 2005, 06:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-minsk+Jun 2 2005, 05:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (minsk @ Jun 2 2005, 05:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <snip/> High school science books are fairly regularly wrong. Some of the things that are presented as facts in the text and by the teacher and on the exam are provably incorrect. A particularly common one pops up in chemistry with the Boer-Rutherford atomic model. It has been obsolete for nearly half a century, yet I have never heard a claim that this harmed students who went on in chemistry where the difference matters. <snip/><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> yes, children can have religion, but you dont want to only teach the kid the bible, or tell the kid that all that stands in the bible is real.
Because its not real, the bible simply cant be real, yes the morals can be real i dont care, just dont overdo the frikken religion and say that god is like your father or something like that <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And here comes the take-away: why and where do you want to draw the line between harmless and overdoing it?
Where is the real difference between "electrons orbit around a nucleus like planets around the sun" and "God created the Earth"? The presenters and texts will present both as true, yet many people only seem to be offended by the latter. You appear to view the latter as disproven, and can do a simple experiment (IIRC) to disprove the former.
Is it because someone built a church around one? Because some people take their belief very seriously? Does having strong believers somehow make a collection of stories more dangerous? Should we protect Christian children from watching Harry Potter because they will be confused by it?
As becomes fairly obvious, I happen to put the line about where my nose starts (and your right to swing your fist ends). Anyway, going to pull my fingers out of this thread. Think about what gives you, or anyone, the right to dictate which things you believe are incorrect are harmful.
(BTW, the times I was in Sunday School and the time my ex spent teaching one all involved a fair bit of back-and-forth. I would rather suspect it, unsurprisingly, varies.)
<edit bump="no" href="aegeri"> Putting religion in a course covering "the science of biology" seems to me almost as confusing as covering calculus there, but was really not my point. If you like drawing the line between "good" and "bad" beliefs at the scientific method, consider some claims from language, economics or history (e.g. "Never begin a sentence with 'and'.").
I happen to prefer that everything taught include accurate citations and qualifiers about being "a simplification that is not quite right" where known. Even Rome issues "this is not literal fact" advisories more often than the average high-school teacher. </edit>
To get like way back at my post: Sorry soap I didn't mean make a point but more like prove a point <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Where is the real difference between "electrons orbit around a nucleus like planets around the sun" and "God created the Earth"?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a useful approximation however to what really happens and sets good understanding for what happens later on in higher chemistry. For people who do not go onto become chemists, it's useful enough without being relevant anyway. This makes it useful as it's easier to teach and doesn't require the more detailed understanding.
For example, when we teach thermodynamics in high school, we are not actually teaching it properly - merely an approximation that is still relevant. Later on, we start saying "well this is how it really works" to University students, and then beyond that <i>everything</i> goes out the window.
The problem with saying "God created the Earth" is inherently simple: There is no way you can make a scientific experiment that can, or even remotely attempt, to verify that fact. Nor is there any evidence (which would require understanding as to what said designer did to make the earth and how) that God ever did. It's a simple statement of pure philosophy but is <b>not a scientific statement in the slightest</b>. As Gods creation of the Earth CANNOT be falsified by the scientific method, it is inherently not scientific and <i>therefore has absolutely no place being taught in a science classroom</i>.
That is the reason why we can teach electron orbits, even if they are 'incorrect' because it remains a useful predictive approximation. We cannot teach that God created the world, or any other ID/Creationist bunk because it's not science and doesn't make testable scientific predictions.
<!--QuoteBegin-Aegeri+Jun 3 2005, 04:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Aegeri @ Jun 3 2005, 04:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> For example, when we teach thermodynamics in high school, we are not actually teaching it properly - merely an approximation that is still relevant. Later on, we start saying "well this is how it really works" to University students, and then beyond that <i>everything</i> goes out the window. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes--I remember how annoyed I was when I discovered that my chemistry text book had intentionally pulled a sleight-of-hand type trick to let them use a faulty proof for something, just because the <i>real</i> proof required going into some quantum physics that they didn't want to have to explain. (I think it was Lavoisier's equation, or some foreign guy with an "L" who had an equation giving the wavelengths of matter).
Anyway, when I noticed their sleight-of-hand trick and realized that they proof they gave was false, I started wondering if the actual equation was wrong too...and no one around that I could ask (Chemistry teacher, etc) had ever noticed that little trick before, so they had no answer. I looked it up in different textbooks (including college level ones) and they all had the same logical error. I finally had to wait until I was in college, and find a professor who knew Quantum Physics and show him the logical flaw, and I don't think even HE knew that the textbooks had lied like that, but he was at least able to show me that there was a real proof involving more complex stuff, so it still worked.
Basically--I wish they would just tell us the real way things work to begin with--its much less confusing that way.
(Let me see if I can remember what they did...I believe the equation contained "v / c" (velocity over the speed of light), and so they set v = c, and canceled them out. A little later they changed velocity, so it was no longer equal to c, meaning the canceling didn't work anymore. But they proceeded as if it did.)
It is actually quite logical as to why they are leaving parts of text books out when you are younger. They are supposed to be standardized so that everyone as a very basic grasp on how the world works, this applies to anything including history, science, math, and etc.
They teach you the basic lessons, then when they think you should know more the move on to the more advanced topics.
It does make sense, however of course, not everyone learns at the same speed, that is why you were frustrated with it, you were able to percieve the logical error and went in search of the answer, which is what they want to happen. However, spending time in class covering something that is more advanced then what the class is supposed to teach, is a waste of time for a few reasons.
1. Most of the people in the basic classes, do not have the mental capacity to grasp why some models work at some levels and why at others they are thrown out the window.
2. Everyone learns at a different pace, so instead of forcing everyone to learn something far above their heads, they keep it simple.
3. This is one of the many reason that some basic classes work for some, but do not work for others. Now while many school districts and systems vary across the country, in my particular area, if you are out pacing the other students you can go up to the teacher after class and ask to be put in a more advanced setting, whether it be the next level up in the class or some special class if the school offers as such. I don't think it would be so different from demographic local to local, but you never know. Smaller schools also probably don't offer as many classes, but then there are a few exceptions.
This will take two definitions Metalcat, for it has a few ways of defining(depending upon region) it.
Sunday School:
1. Where people put their children while they are in christian mass. Usually, they are there to learn about the word of god, and what is good and bad. This is strictly from the bibles viewpoint, of course they keep it very basic (read: Not in-depth), since most children wouldn't understand the context of the "holy codified laws" part of the bible. The children usually stay in sunday school untill they are around 12-15, it depends on the christianity sect, then they are confirmed (full fledged members of church). Some people pull their children out after the fifth or sixth grade (10-13) and have them attend regular mass with them. Then after they are in high school usually around sophmore-junior level, they go to confirmation classes and then become full-fledged members of said church. This type is usually carried out in a church's basement or classrooms if a school is near-by (usually a private school and after their hours, as it is usually defined on Sunday, but I have seen it conducted on Wednesday, and Saturday as well.)
2. In some areas, in fact only one that I know of some people call Sunday School another name for Bible Study/Youth Group. In that case, adults or probably some older teens would gather either at someones house/church/meeting place and discuss scriptures in the bible and probably how to make it relevant today. At this sessions they get a bit more in-depth, but most of the time keep it on the layman's level. A In addition, at the few I had the pleasure to attend, most everyone there also talked about how god had improved their lives after they have been "saved" or "born again". This may vary around the country in the US and quite likely around the world as well. I have never attended a Bible Study session out side the US.
<!--QuoteBegin-Metalcat+Jun 5 2005, 09:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Metalcat @ Jun 5 2005, 09:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i know this may sound weird to some of you, but please WTH is a Sunday school?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_School' target='_blank'>Sunday School, From Wikipedia</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"Sunday School" is the generic name for many different types of religious education pursued on Sundays (traditionally, though not exclusively, in the morning) by various Christian denominations.
It had its origins in July 1780, in the work of Robert Raikes editor of Gloucester Journal, who saw the need to prevent children in the slums descending into crime. By 1831, Sunday School in Great Britain was ministering weekly to 1,250,000 children, approximately 25 percent of the population.
Most Protestant churches operate Sunday Schools. Sunday Schools, contrary to the name, are virtually never recognized educational institutions; rather than offering formal grades or transcripts, Sunday Schools simply attempt to offer meaningful instruction concerning Christian doctrine and keep little or no record of performance for any given week. Attendance is often tracked as a means of encouraging children to appear regularly (awards are frequently given for reaching attendance milestones).
Sunday School often takes the form of a one hour Bible study which can occur before, during, or after a church service. <b>While many Sunday Schools are focused on providing instruction for children (especially those occurring during service times), adult Sunday School classes are also popular and widespread.</b>
Sunday School teachers are usually laymen who are selected for their job by a church board, normally because of their advanced experience with the Bible—few teachers receive any formal training in education, though many Sunday School teachers have a background in education as a result of their occupations.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> As noted, adult Sunday Schools are popular amongst the Protestant religion, and not necessarily limited to any particular region as far as I know.
ok i think its kinda only in the USA you do "sunday school" ... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Pretty much Metalcat, as I have yet to hear from someone across the ocean about sunday school. I would assume though that countries like France, UK, and those with high christian populations would have something similar even if a different name.
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 5 2005, 09:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 5 2005, 09:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As noted, adult Sunday Schools are popular amongst the Protestant religion, and not necessarily limited to any particular region as far as I know. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Depot, you sux at protestant
im protestant and never heard about a sunday school, im protestant and everything you ever said about protestants is not true...
*EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT*
cyndance Denmark is very high christian % and no sunday school
Metalcat, claiming to be christian and practicing christian are two different things. I was referring to the latter.(Practicing christian) <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
*edit* <!--QuoteBegin-Metalcats link+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Metalcats link)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <i>Evangelical Lutheran Church - as the established Church of Denmark</i> - shall be supported by the State, and also by provisions on freedom of religion, speech and assembly. State support is partly moral and political (Sunday observance legislation and legislation on church matters), partly financial and administrative (contributions to clergy salaries and pensions, the collection of church taxes, the maintenance of the national church governance by means of a Ministry of Ecclesiastical Affairs and diocesan administration, supervision, advisory services, etc.).
<i>Of religious communities, the established church is by far the largest (encompassing 85.4% of the population in 1998). Alongside the established church various other Christian churches are represented in Denmark and have been accorded the status of officially recognised religious communities. These are (in order of size) the Roman Catholic Church with c. 35,000 members, the Danish Baptist Church with c. 5500 adult members and the </i><b> Pentecostal churches with c. 5000 members;</b> of communities with 3000 members and under mention should be made of the Seventh Day Adventists, the Catholic Apostolic Church, the Reformed Churches in Fredericia and Copenhagen, the Salvation Army, the Methodist Church, the Anglican Church and the Russian Orthodox Church in Copenhagen. In addition, with a rather more distant relationship to Christianity, there are Jehovah's Witnesses with ca. 15,000 members and the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) with c. 4500 members. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Seems the Lutheran church is the offical church of Denmark... interesting he didn't know that.
<!--QuoteBegin-Metalcat+Jun 5 2005, 09:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Metalcat @ Jun 5 2005, 09:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Depot, you sux at protestant <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I couldnt come close to repressing my laughter at this statement. Considering all that we've been through, lately, this needs to be preserved for future generations, as a representative for our great discussion forums. Bravo <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Metalcat+Jun 5 2005, 10:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Metalcat @ Jun 5 2005, 10:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Depot, you sux at protestant
im protestant and never heard about a sunday school, im protestant and everything you ever said about protestants is not true...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm sure they have it in Denmark Metalcat, it's possibly called something else.
I'm not sure what "everything you ever said about protestants is not true..." relates to, so perhaps you could elaborate, whereas I would then have a chance to defend my statements. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
* E D I T * Just one example I found Metalcat: <a href='http://www.elca.org/countrypackets/denmark/church.html' target='_blank'>Evangelical Lutheran Church in Denmark and International Church of Copenhagen</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The International Church of Copenhagen offers a full range of programs for children, youth, and adults. It is the only English speaking congregation in Copenhagen which offers <b>Sunday School</b>, youth group, and activities for young adults. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Being athiest, Ive noticed that theres usually 2 types of christians: The ones that act like normal people and dont go overboard with the religion, and dont talk about it much (I like these type, they can believe in what they want for all I care, I just dont want to hear them preaching about it constantly). Or theres the people like at my work place, that all they talk about is god and dont do the fun simple things because they think its sinning. A few of my friends happen to be those diehard christians that you just want to slap sometimes. Any time you do something that they dont like they get all serious like 'oh your going to hell now omg!' Oh it just drives me nuts sometimes. [/rant]
<!--QuoteBegin-pieceofsoap+Jun 5 2005, 10:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (pieceofsoap @ Jun 5 2005, 10:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Metalcat+Jun 5 2005, 09:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Metalcat @ Jun 5 2005, 09:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Depot, you sux at protestant <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I couldnt come close to repressing my laughter at this statement. Considering all that we've been through, lately, this needs to be preserved for future generations, as a representative for our great discussion forums. Bravo <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Beat me to it.
Indeed you are correct Drfuzzy. Speaking only from my personal experiences, you have quite a range of Protestant religions, from the Southern Baptist Bible thumpers who are taught to witness, and may call the police if a beer truck was to park across the street from their church, to the much more liberal Presbyterians.
The Bible is interpreted differently by different religions obviously. This is only one thing that makes each Protestant religion unique.
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 5 2005, 11:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 5 2005, 11:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The Bible is interpreted differently by different religions obviously. This is only one thing that makes each Protestant religion unique. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm sorry, but...isn't this proof that the Bible is not infallible?
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Jun 5 2005, 10:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Jun 5 2005, 10:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 5 2005, 11:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 5 2005, 11:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The Bible is interpreted differently by different religions obviously. This is only one thing that makes each Protestant religion unique. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm sorry, but...isn't this proof that the Bible is not infallible? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Even I can pop in and say here, that the fact that different people interpret it different ways is more of a reflection of the fallability of people, rather than the fallability of the Book.
Comments
This post has nothing to do with religion or god's existance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you can only use proven arguments, there will be very little, if anything, you can debate. Rather, the way to approach it, is to state your angle, and give the assumtions your angle is based on, and the logic you use to link your angle to your basic assumtions.
{Off topic rant, once more}
I am growing increasingly tired of the snide comments Depot. You are not contributing to anything by making them, especially when they have no actual basis on anything. They are purely your opinions, which is one of the main reasons I stopped replying to you, before this post.
I shall address the sunday school issue below, as I did before in the other topic before it was locked and I edited out what didn't need to be there.
Due to the fact you(live in florida) and I have lived in a few different demographic areas, Sunday school here means you are sent(to school usually in a church basement/classroom) there to learn about god from teachers, whether they be ministers or whatever. Where I come from it is called either A) Youth Group, or B) Bible study.
Different terminology is not the same as no evidence, I did state in that thread, you just choose to ignore it, like all the other evidence I presented.
Blammo is correct, and we are not trying to pick on you metalcat, but alot of here in the discussion forums, like to have evidence to back up said claims, and while you are not alone, metalcat, it makes it much easier to follow if you could at least back up what you are saying with some sort of logic.
The generic concept that "religion makes you stupid/bad/etc." Doesn't really mean much to the average person, because, there is no reason given.
You state the bible/koran/tora/vedas/ is/are not true, but you have yet to provide any factual evidence for any of it, other then your word.
While your word may be good enough for where you live, in a discussion or debate if you prefer you must at least bring something to the table in order for us to either A) prove you wrong B) agree by finding matching evidence.
I would enjoy reading your posts more metalcat, but its hard to follow when there is no logic involved and then the lack of evidence just kind of makes it a waste of type for you to be even typing. Of course the same can be said for some of the other gross generalizations that have occurred before, but most people have learned from them. I haven't seen any learning on your part just yet, but I do hope you will learn from at least this post if not the countless others before me.
{This ended up longer then I expected, but it did need to be said, even if it is quite off topic}
{Off topic rant, once more}
I am growing increasingly tired of the snide comments Depot. You are not contributing to anything by making them, especially when they have no actual basis on anything. They are purely your opinions, which is one of the main reasons I stopped replying to you, before this post.
I shall address the sunday school issue below, as I did before in the other topic before it was locked and I edited out what didn't need to be there.
Due to the fact you(live in florida) and I have lived in a few different demographic areas, Sunday school here means you are sent(to school usually in a church basement/classroom) there to learn about god from teachers, whether they be ministers or whatever. Where I come from it is called either A) Youth Group, or B) Bible study.
Different terminology is not the same as no evidence, I did state in that thread, you just choose to ignore it, like all the other evidence I presented.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No snide comments Cyndane, you are simply as guilty as metalcat or AvengerX of stating gross inacuracies without proof and therefore should be included in their special forum.
The fact I currently live in Florida is as irrelevant as you living in South Dakota. Don't think that you're the only one involved in these discussions that's been outside of the U.S., because you're not. I have lived in several foreign countries and also studied their religion while I was there. Your condescending attitude is really getting old, as are your constant incorrect assumptions.
The post you edited out in reference to Sunday School made no reference whatsoever to a difference in terminology. You flat out said that the Bible was taught and not discussed, period. I showed you where you were incorrect.
Yes, your final post before the thread was locked found you backtracking to cover your behind, but the post you edited out is where you erred. Get off your high horse, you are fallible just like the rest of us.
I just had to highlight that unintentional pun <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I apologize soap, and I will not feed the troll anymore, after this.
<!--QuoteBegin-depot+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (depot)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
No snide comments Cyndane, you are simply as guilty as metalcat or AvengerX of stating gross inacuracies without proof and therefore should be included in their special forum
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Incorrect, just view any of my other posts in any other topic and try once more.
<!--QuoteBegin-depot+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (depot)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
The fact I currently live in Florida is as irrelevant as you living in South Dakota. Don't think that you're the only one involved in these discussions that's been outside of the U.S., because you're not. I have lived in several foreign countries and also studied their religion while I was there. Your condescending attitude is really getting old, as are your constant incorrect assumptions.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Various areas in the country call many things by different names, take Pop for example, east coast it is Soda, Maine is called Coke (reguardless of which company). Here, and where I have traveled, I have not stayed extensively in florida, nor have I ever lived there. Sunday school is where children go to learn about god. There is no discussion, at least no serious(read: in-depth; most children do not have the self-awareness to ask indepth questions) discussion.
<!--QuoteBegin-depot+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (depot)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Yes, your final post before the thread was locked found you backtracking to cover your behind, but the post you edited out is where you erred. Get off your high horse, you are fallible just like the rest of us.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, there was no back tracking, I realize my mistake and fixed it, so the thread wasn't 10(only 8, hehe) pages long anymore. There was no reason for half of the things that were said to even be there as they had no bearing on the discussion at hand, it was only myself defending my position from you, with out you having evidence as well, other then your own experiences (but obviously yours are "better" then mine, as evidenced by that thread, since you can dismiss mine out of hand, but yours matter. Hypocrisy is not becoming of anyone.)
{I am done now, lets get back to the topic at hand? If there is one left anymore?}
*edit*
@Filthylarry, wow, even after that you still made me laugh. Thanks for getting me in trouble at work. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'd support it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You'd have to allow Cyndane access also. As I recall she was adamant Sunday Schools do not allow discussion of the Bible , only teaching it (she had <b>NO</b> proof). I am living proof that discussion of the Bible in Sunday School exists, and often in the Protestant religion. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just for the record, the thread was about Sunday Schools for children, not Bible Study classes that you mention to have gone to. I know I went to Sunday School for a few years. Suffice it to say, I have a clearer perception of children's Sunday School than you do, and at least where <u>I</u> went to school, there was no discussion. You memorized the passages, the lessons were hammered into your heads, but detailed explanations were often lacking, let alone actual discussions with opposing viewpoints.
That said, stop dragging other (locked) threads into this discussion, or get out of this forum if you can't stay on-topic. It'll save a lot of headaches for all of us.
[ontopic]
Metalcat, how about citing sources, quoting the Bible, showing inconsistincies, etc. All your posts in this entire thread have basically consisted of "The Bible is WRONG! Just look at it! It's WRONG!" Even if we were inclined to believe you, you're not going to convince anyone with an argument based solely on an explosive and irrational opinion.
Umm, It wasnt about Sunday Schools, last time I checked...
<a href='http://www.russpickett.com/basic/christan.htm' target='_blank'>What is a Christian</a> This pretty well sums up my feelings on what it means to be a Christian.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You may think this to be an unnecessary document, but it is becoming "increasingly obvious" that most people don't have the slightest idea what Christianity is, or what it means to be a Christian.
On a recent poll over 90% of Americans defined themselves as "Christians". If this was true, the Churches would be packed out every day of the week. If this was true "abortion" and the alleged "alternate lifestyle" would not be tolerated, and the smut you see on television wouldn't be on - there would be no market for it.
If this was true then the Internet wouldn't have "over 80,000 sites" devoted to pornography, many of which are advocating pedophilia. "No", there are not that many Christians in America, though we pray to God that there one day will be.
This article deals with what "Christianity is", and what the marks of a "bona fide Christian" are. Before anyone joins the church that I belong to we have made it a practice for them to take a class with our pastor, and make sure they understand the basics of Christianity and that they have salvation prior to excepting them into membership. A lot of people are "joining the Church" and equating this to Christianity. "No", that's not Christianity.
The word "Christian" was actually attached to the believers in Christ by nonbeliever as a ridicule years ago, a way to make fun of them. The word actually means "little Christ".
Rather than taking this offensively, we embraced the term from the start. You see, "Christianity" is a both a system of spiritual growth and a state of being developed by our Creator God for those who have accepted Jesus Christ as Savior.
If you are a Christian then you exist within this Divine System. This study will give you numerous points and Biblical references to define what a Christian is so will will need to look up some of the scripture references yourself. This is basically meant to be a study guide. Once you look up all of these references, meditate on them, study them, you will understand what "Christian" means and know the difference between the Churches building and the Church of Christ. If you have merely "joined a Church" or are "doing good works", yet have never accepted Christ as Savior, you are still lost in Satan's system called "worldliness".
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>The Christian IS</span>
<b>1. A person who has repented of following Satan's policies of evil and has freely chosen to accept Jesus Christ as Savior in their heart.</b>
Christianity is more than just a "simple profession" of faith as so many think today. It actually entails two things:
A "profession of Faith" (accepting Jesus Christ as a personal Lord and Savior) and,
"Repenting" from your former way of being. (changing the old life style)
The Bible defines the "heart" of man as the thinking part of his soul:
Proverbs 23:7 "For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee."
Proverbs 2:2 "So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding."
This is your very innermost being. The unbeliever (a person who has not accepted Christ and repented), that person who is still lost in his sins, rejects Jesus Christ in his heart:
Zechariah 7:12 "Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the Lord of hosts hath sent in this spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath from the Lord of hosts."
Let's put it this way: what are you "devoted to?" Did you come to a point in your life where you realized you needed Jesus Christ, and realize that you couldn't live your life without Him? While you were in this state, did you cry out to God "Father, forgive me. I know that I cannot make it on my own. I ask that you save my soul in the name of Jesus". Did you fixate on Christ, clinging to Him as a drowning man would cling to a life preserver?
You see, God looks at the "heart" (inner most being) of each one of us to determine whether we're saved or not (1 Samuel 16:7). You may have walked the aisle and joined with a Church on the good faith of its members, but unless you "devoted your heart", accepted Jesus Christ as Savior in your heart at this one crucial point in your life, and "repented of your old style of life", you are not saved (Psalms 28:7; Romans 10:9-10). Remember, you may fool the preacher and your friends, but you cannot fool God!
<b>2. Once you are in the state of salvation, you are no longer a non-entity, but you are a "Key Player" in the Plan of God: </b>
Romans 8:29-30 "[29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. [30] Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and who he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."
Ephesians 1:11 "In who also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:"
Matthew 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."
Whereas before you had no access to God because of the sin that separates, you are now in a relationship with Him. You are able to talk to and be understood by the full Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ( 2 Corinthians 5:18-20; Colossians 1:20; Romans 5:10; Ephesians 2:14-17 ).
Before salvation you were like a radio in a tunnel, and that tunnel (sin) cut you off from communicating with God. You could communicate with all others in the tunnel, all others who were under the sin barrier with you - but God would not hear your prayers (save for the prayer of salvation). After salvation you came out from under that barrier, and now have the freedom, the spiritual ability, to communicate with God and all those who are saved in Christ with you.
<b>3. After salvation, though your ability to sin has not been removed, your ability "not" to sin has been increased. </b>
The comedian Flip Wilson used to do something then say, "The Devil made me do it". Before salvation not the devil, but the Old Sin Nature in you ruled your life. After salvation in Christ you are a new Creation, no longer a slave to that sin nature, but have been given the ever increasing ability to control that nature to the glory of God (Romans 3:24; Colossians 1:14; 1 Peter 1:18). Look, if you're "exactly" the same after your profession and conversion to Christ "you're just not saved, period!"
<b>4. If you are saved, you may slip into sin on occasion. </b>
This is part of the fact that you are not in a glorified body, and are still human. However, the Christian will never be destined for the eternal punishment of Hellfire. The fact that you cried out to God and devoted your life to Christ satisfied God, and He begins to work in your life while you walk this earth. The penalty of your sins are removed from eternity's records (John 3:18; 5:24; Romans 8:1; 3:24-26; 1 John 2:2). When you do slip, God expects you, as His adopted child, to quickly repent of that sin and confess it to Him. These personal sins, once confessed, quickly returns you to a right relationship with your Heavenly Father (1 John 1:8-9; Romans 4:25; Ephesians 1:7; 1 Peter 2:24).
<b>5. Once you have accepted Christ as Savior God Himself identifies you with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. </b>
You are freed from the Mosaic Law, and brought under the spiritual guidance of God's Holy Spirit (Romans 6:4, 6, 8, 14; 7:4, 6; Galatians 2:20-21; 3:25; Colossians 2:12; 3:1, 3; 1 Peter 2:24; 2 Corinthians 3:11). You are a new Creation in and by God Himself, and now possess a body, soul, and spirit whereas the worldly unsaved only possess a body and a soul. (John 1:12; 3:7; 13:10; 1 Corinthians 6:11; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:23; Galatians 3:26; 6:15; 2 Corinthians 5:17; 6:18; 1 John 3:2; Ephesians 2:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:23). You are an "adopted son of God" (Romans 8:15,23; Ephesians 1:5) and are in a family relationship with God the Father.
<b>6. The Christian is righteous in the eyes of God the Father </b>
The reason you are now righteous in the eyes of God the Father is because, at salvation, your declaration or devotion to Christ caused the Spirit of God to place you in union with Christ (Ephesians 1:6; 1 Peter 2:25; Romans 3:22; 1 Corinthians 1:30; 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Philippians 3:9; Hebrews 10:14; Colossians 1:12). This "imputed" or God given righteousness, allows God to declared you righteous in His Courtroom in the Heavens (Romans 3:24; 5:1, 9; 8:30; 1 Corinthians 6:11; Titus 3:7). You now have a citizenship in Heaven, having been delivered from the kingdom of Satan. You are no longer regarded as a citizen of this world, but an ambassador for Christ, representing Him on the earth (Luke 10:20; Ephesians 2:13,19; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 1:13; 2:15). Because you are a work of God, you are secure in your salvation, so secure that you can never lose that salvation (1 Corinthians 3:11; 10:4; Ephesians 2:20). You are a Royal Priest in the service of God forever (1 Peter 2:5, 9; Revelation 1:6).
<b>7. The Christian is one who has access to God anytime he or she desires.</b>
(Romans 5:2; Ephesians 2:18; Hebrews 4:14, 16). If you are a Christian you are under the superior care of God (Ephesians 2:4, 8-9; 4:7; 5:2; Romans 5:2; 1 Peter 1:5; John 17:18; Titus 2:12). You are guaranteed eternal life with God in Heaven (John 3:15; 10:28; 20:31; 1 John 5:11-12).
<b>8. Christians must understand that they are in a new position. </b>
We are no longer of the world, but are:
"Partners with Christ": (Colossians 3:4; 1 Corinthians 1:9),
"Workers together with God": (1 Corinthians 3:9; 2 Corinthians 6:1),
"Ministers of the New Testament": (2 Corinthians 3:6),
"Ambassadors for Christ": (2 Corinthians 5:20),
"Living epistles": (2 Corinthians 3:3),
"Ministers of God": (2 Corinthians 6:4).
"We are united to the Triune God":
"To the Father": (1 Thessalonians 1:1; Ephesians 4:6),
"To the Son": (1 Corinthians 12:13; John 10:27-29; 15:5; Ephesians 2:21-22; 5:25-27; 1 Peter 5, 9; 2 Corinthians 5:17),
"To God the Holy Spirit": (Romans 8:9, 16).
<b>9. The Christian has been the recipient of all the ministries of God's Holy Spirit. </b>
He is indwelt by the Spirit (John 7:39; Romans 5:5; 8:9; 1 Corinthians 3:16; 6:19; Galatians 4:6; 1 John 3:24). He is sealed by the Spirit, marked by God as a Son of God (2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 4:30). The Christian is the recipient of spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:11; 12:27-31; 13:1-2), gifts that should be used in the gathering of the Church to build up other fellow believers (see "Spiritual Gifts"). The Christian has at least one, but possibly more than one spiritual gift (1 Corinthians 12:11, 27-31; 13:1-2). The Christian is Baptized in the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:5; 1 Corinthians 12:13), and Regenerated or made alive (John 3:6).
<b>10. As a Christian you are the possessor of every spiritual blessing.</b>
(Ephesians 1:3). We are given greater blessing as Children of God, but we are also under greater discipline if we walk away from our familial relationship in God (Hebrews 12:5-11). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And Cyndane, just because you say so doesn't mean that's the way it is. Proving your points on these fora involves a lot more than quoting scripture, copying and pasting webpages, and bragging on your accomplishments. I'd also recommend against name calling on here, as that falls under the category of personal attacks and violates community guidelines. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<snip/>
High school science books are fairly regularly wrong. Some of the things that are presented as facts in the text and by the teacher and on the exam are provably incorrect. A particularly common one pops up in chemistry with the Boer-Rutherford atomic model. It has been obsolete for nearly half a century, yet I have never heard a claim that this harmed students who went on in chemistry where the difference matters.
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yes, children can have religion, but you dont want to only teach the kid the bible, or tell the kid that all that stands in the bible is real.
Because its not real, the bible simply cant be real, yes the morals can be real i dont care, just dont overdo the frikken religion and say that god is like your father or something like that <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And here comes the take-away: why and where do you want to draw the line between harmless and overdoing it?
Where is the real difference between "electrons orbit around a nucleus like planets around the sun" and "God created the Earth"? The presenters and texts will present both as true, yet many people only seem to be offended by the latter. You appear to view the latter as disproven, and can do a simple experiment (IIRC) to disprove the former.
Is it because someone built a church around one? Because some people take their belief very seriously? Does having strong believers somehow make a collection of stories more dangerous? Should we protect Christian children from watching Harry Potter because they will be confused by it?
As becomes fairly obvious, I happen to put the line about where my nose starts (and your right to swing your fist ends). Anyway, going to pull my fingers out of this thread. Think about what gives you, or anyone, the right to dictate which things you believe are incorrect are harmful.
(BTW, the times I was in Sunday School and the time my ex spent teaching one all involved a fair bit of back-and-forth. I would rather suspect it, unsurprisingly, varies.)
<edit bump="no" href="aegeri">
Putting religion in a course covering "the science of biology" seems to me almost as confusing as covering calculus there, but was really not my point. If you like drawing the line between "good" and "bad" beliefs at the scientific method, consider some claims from language, economics or history (e.g. "Never begin a sentence with 'and'.").
I happen to prefer that everything taught include accurate citations and qualifiers about being "a simplification that is not quite right" where known. Even Rome issues "this is not literal fact" advisories more often than the average high-school teacher.
</edit>
This is a useful approximation however to what really happens and sets good understanding for what happens later on in higher chemistry. For people who do not go onto become chemists, it's useful enough without being relevant anyway. This makes it useful as it's easier to teach and doesn't require the more detailed understanding.
For example, when we teach thermodynamics in high school, we are not actually teaching it properly - merely an approximation that is still relevant. Later on, we start saying "well this is how it really works" to University students, and then beyond that <i>everything</i> goes out the window.
The problem with saying "God created the Earth" is inherently simple: There is no way you can make a scientific experiment that can, or even remotely attempt, to verify that fact. Nor is there any evidence (which would require understanding as to what said designer did to make the earth and how) that God ever did. It's a simple statement of pure philosophy but is <b>not a scientific statement in the slightest</b>. As Gods creation of the Earth CANNOT be falsified by the scientific method, it is inherently not scientific and <i>therefore has absolutely no place being taught in a science classroom</i>.
That is the reason why we can teach electron orbits, even if they are 'incorrect' because it remains a useful predictive approximation. We cannot teach that God created the world, or any other ID/Creationist bunk because it's not science and doesn't make testable scientific predictions.
QED.
Yes--I remember how annoyed I was when I discovered that my chemistry text book had intentionally pulled a sleight-of-hand type trick to let them use a faulty proof for something, just because the <i>real</i> proof required going into some quantum physics that they didn't want to have to explain. (I think it was Lavoisier's equation, or some foreign guy with an "L" who had an equation giving the wavelengths of matter).
Anyway, when I noticed their sleight-of-hand trick and realized that they proof they gave was false, I started wondering if the actual equation was wrong too...and no one around that I could ask (Chemistry teacher, etc) had ever noticed that little trick before, so they had no answer. I looked it up in different textbooks (including college level ones) and they all had the same logical error. I finally had to wait until I was in college, and find a professor who knew Quantum Physics and show him the logical flaw, and I don't think even HE knew that the textbooks had lied like that, but he was at least able to show me that there was a real proof involving more complex stuff, so it still worked.
Basically--I wish they would just tell us the real way things work to begin with--its much less confusing that way.
(Let me see if I can remember what they did...I believe the equation contained "v / c" (velocity over the speed of light), and so they set v = c, and canceled them out. A little later they changed velocity, so it was no longer equal to c, meaning the canceling didn't work anymore. But they proceeded as if it did.)
They teach you the basic lessons, then when they think you should know more the move on to the more advanced topics.
It does make sense, however of course, not everyone learns at the same speed, that is why you were frustrated with it, you were able to percieve the logical error and went in search of the answer, which is what they want to happen. However, spending time in class covering something that is more advanced then what the class is supposed to teach, is a waste of time for a few reasons.
1. Most of the people in the basic classes, do not have the mental capacity to grasp why some models work at some levels and why at others they are thrown out the window.
2. Everyone learns at a different pace, so instead of forcing everyone to learn something far above their heads, they keep it simple.
3. This is one of the many reason that some basic classes work for some, but do not work for others. Now while many school districts and systems vary across the country, in my particular area, if you are out pacing the other students you can go up to the teacher after class and ask to be put in a more advanced setting, whether it be the next level up in the class or some special class if the school offers as such. I don't think it would be so different from demographic local to local, but you never know. Smaller schools also probably don't offer as many classes, but then there are a few exceptions.
...not an idiot.
as long as there is no evidence the bible is not true
i know this may sound weird to some of you, but please WTH is a Sunday school?
Sunday School:
1. Where people put their children while they are in christian mass. Usually, they are there to learn about the word of god, and what is good and bad. This is strictly from the bibles viewpoint, of course they keep it very basic (read: Not in-depth), since most children wouldn't understand the context of the "holy codified laws" part of the bible. The children usually stay in sunday school untill they are around 12-15, it depends on the christianity sect, then they are confirmed (full fledged members of church). Some people pull their children out after the fifth or sixth grade (10-13) and have them attend regular mass with them. Then after they are in high school usually around sophmore-junior level, they go to confirmation classes and then become full-fledged members of said church. This type is usually carried out in a church's basement or classrooms if a school is near-by (usually a private school and after their hours, as it is usually defined on Sunday, but I have seen it conducted on Wednesday, and Saturday as well.)
2. In some areas, in fact only one that I know of some people call Sunday School another name for Bible Study/Youth Group. In that case, adults or probably some older teens would gather either at someones house/church/meeting place and discuss scriptures in the bible and probably how to make it relevant today. At this sessions they get a bit more in-depth, but most of the time keep it on the layman's level. A In addition, at the few I had the pleasure to attend, most everyone there also talked about how god had improved their lives after they have been "saved" or "born again". This may vary around the country in the US and quite likely around the world as well. I have never attended a Bible Study session out side the US.
<a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_School' target='_blank'>Sunday School, From Wikipedia</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"Sunday School" is the generic name for many different types of religious education pursued on Sundays (traditionally, though not exclusively, in the morning) by various Christian denominations.
It had its origins in July 1780, in the work of Robert Raikes editor of Gloucester Journal, who saw the need to prevent children in the slums descending into crime. By 1831, Sunday School in Great Britain was ministering weekly to 1,250,000 children, approximately 25 percent of the population.
Most Protestant churches operate Sunday Schools. Sunday Schools, contrary to the name, are virtually never recognized educational institutions; rather than offering formal grades or transcripts, Sunday Schools simply attempt to offer meaningful instruction concerning Christian doctrine and keep little or no record of performance for any given week. Attendance is often tracked as a means of encouraging children to appear regularly (awards are frequently given for reaching attendance milestones).
Sunday School often takes the form of a one hour Bible study which can occur before, during, or after a church service. <b>While many Sunday Schools are focused on providing instruction for children (especially those occurring during service times), adult Sunday School classes are also popular and widespread.</b>
Sunday School teachers are usually laymen who are selected for their job by a church board, normally because of their advanced experience with the Bible—few teachers receive any formal training in education, though many Sunday School teachers have a background in education as a result of their occupations.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As noted, adult Sunday Schools are popular amongst the Protestant religion, and not necessarily limited to any particular region as far as I know.
Depot, you sux at protestant
im protestant and never heard about a sunday school, im protestant and everything you ever said about protestants is not true...
*EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT*
cyndance Denmark is very high christian % and no sunday school
*EDOUBLE EDIT*
<a href='http://www.um.dk/Publikationer/UM/English/Denmark/kap1/1-14.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.um.dk/Publikationer/UM/English/...k/kap1/1-14.asp</a>
*edit*
<!--QuoteBegin-Metalcats link+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Metalcats link)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
<i>Evangelical Lutheran Church - as the established Church of Denmark</i> - shall be supported by the State, and also by provisions on freedom of religion, speech and assembly. State support is partly moral and political (Sunday observance legislation and legislation on church matters), partly financial and administrative (contributions to clergy salaries and pensions, the collection of church taxes, the maintenance of the national church governance by means of a Ministry of Ecclesiastical Affairs and diocesan administration, supervision, advisory services, etc.).
<i>Of religious communities, the established church is by far the largest (encompassing 85.4% of the population in 1998). Alongside the established church various other Christian churches are represented in Denmark and have been accorded the status of officially recognised religious communities. These are (in order of size) the Roman Catholic Church with c. 35,000 members, the Danish Baptist Church with c. 5500 adult members and the </i><b> Pentecostal churches with c. 5000 members;</b> of communities with 3000 members and under mention should be made of the Seventh Day Adventists, the Catholic Apostolic Church, the Reformed Churches in Fredericia and Copenhagen, the Salvation Army, the Methodist Church, the Anglican Church and the Russian Orthodox Church in Copenhagen. In addition, with a rather more distant relationship to Christianity, there are Jehovah's Witnesses with ca. 15,000 members and the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) with c. 4500 members.
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Seems the Lutheran church is the offical church of Denmark... interesting he didn't know that.
I couldnt come close to repressing my laughter at this statement. Considering all that we've been through, lately, this needs to be preserved for future generations, as a representative for our great discussion forums. Bravo <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
im protestant and never heard about a sunday school, im protestant and everything you ever said about protestants is not true...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sure they have it in Denmark Metalcat, it's possibly called something else.
I'm not sure what "everything you ever said about protestants is not true..." relates to, so perhaps you could elaborate, whereas I would then have a chance to defend my statements. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
* E D I T * Just one example I found Metalcat: <a href='http://www.elca.org/countrypackets/denmark/church.html' target='_blank'>Evangelical Lutheran Church in Denmark and International Church of Copenhagen</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The International Church of Copenhagen offers a full range of programs for children, youth, and adults. It is the only English speaking congregation in Copenhagen which offers <b>Sunday School</b>, youth group, and activities for young adults. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I couldnt come close to repressing my laughter at this statement. Considering all that we've been through, lately, this needs to be preserved for future generations, as a representative for our great discussion forums. Bravo <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Beat me to it.
The Bible is interpreted differently by different religions obviously. This is only one thing that makes each Protestant religion unique.
I'm sorry, but...isn't this proof that the Bible is not infallible?
I'm sorry, but...isn't this proof that the Bible is not infallible? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Even I can pop in and say here, that the fact that different people interpret it different ways is more of a reflection of the fallability of people, rather than the fallability of the Book.