Marine Vs Marine

Olmy · April 2004

or TSA vs Corporation Tactical Ops, sent in to stop the TSA from uncovering their nasty little secret aboard the particular research vessel...

On another note, as i see it, A VS A would have 4 hives, where each team start at one randomly and going for the other two, the victor having 3 hives and the loser being stuck at one, shortly before their own destruction.

brute_force · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Edgecrusher @ Apr 7 2004, 09:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> On another note, as i see it, A VS A would have 4 hives, where each team start at one randomly and going for the other two, the victor having 3 hives and the loser being stuck at one, shortly before their own destruction.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
But there's always chance for comebacks! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

I think AvA will be more Hive based. I almost think that AvA should have that hive system from 1.x, fade at 2 hives and onos at 3.

Though, imagine hive2 vs hive2 aliens, no onii. :/

Olmy · April 2004

there will be some problems with A vs A though, like oc spam will not be effective at protecting gorges because skulks could just quickly jump them and start biting the hell out of the gorge... just one issue i considered.

Kouji_San · April 2004

Why would TSA fight TSA, and aliens fight aliens? It's not logical... also it would take the thing out of NS which makes NS to be NS:
<b>Mostly on the marine side:</b>
Fear, atmophere, "cinimatic feeling"

We would need a third team, but is there room for a third team in the hl-engine?

Now I'm not agains this idea (well I am against aliens vs aliens <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /> ), but it needs work and a very good backstory to make it plauseable if it would be implimented officialy into NS...

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' />

brute_force · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kouji San @ Apr 7 2004, 10:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Why would TSA fight TSA, and aliens fight aliens? It's not logical... also it would take the thing out of NS which makes NS to be NS:
<b>Mostly on the marine side:</b>
Fear, atmophere, "cinimatic feeling"

We would need a third team, but is there room for a third team in the hl-engine?

Now I'm not agains this idea (well I am against aliens vs aliens <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /> ), but it needs work and a very good backstory to make it plauseable if it would be implimented officialy into NS...

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' />  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Storyline shouldn't be a problem. And here is your answer: NANITES!

Just kidding. Well, perhaps the TransGov thought the TSA weren't doing a good job, and so they stopped funding the TSA and made a new team of elite soldiers. However, for some reason, the elite team openly declared war on the TSA because they had secured an infested station, which was originally handed to the elite.

Or something. Then AvA, well, what if a Hive stopped responding to The Bacterium's orders and started controlling its' lifeforms by itself, and The Bacterium created a new hive to defeat them. Well, I don't know.

Olmy · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kouji San @ Apr 7 2004, 09:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Why would TSA fight TSA, and aliens fight aliens? It's not logical... also it would take the thing out of NS which makes NS to be NS:
<b>Mostly on the marine side:</b>
Fear, atmophere, "cinimatic feeling"

We would need a third team, but is there room for a third team in the hl-engine?

Now I'm not agains this idea (well I am against aliens vs aliens <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /> ), but it needs work and a very good backstory to make it plauseable if it would be implimented officialy into NS...

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Kouji i refer you to my tsa vs corporation tacticals ops post. I think that is the best solution to the storyline issue.

also why would the hl engine restrict this from being possible... mr bill has already shown that m vs m can be done... the other team just need different skins or models, a different team name. And then of course there will be the bugs that needs adressed like cc being damaged by its own welder etc.

Kouji_San · April 2004

I read somewhere that theres is a maximum number of weapons/buildings the hl engine can handle. And a new team would need new weapons/buildings. Or at least I think it should <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /> (not sure if it is possible to impliment more weapons in NS, there are mods for the hl-egine with much more weapons then NS)

But my point is: would't it be much nicer to have a third human based team, specializing in sabotage, mutations/bio enginering and a combo of ranged and melee weapons?

brute_force · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kouji San @ Apr 7 2004, 10:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> But my point is: would't it be much nicer to have a third human based team, specializing in sabotage, mutations/bio enginering and a combo of ranged and melee weapons?  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Sure it would be nice, but I can't see that happening... ever. Unless we get NS2 for a better engine, such as HL2.

Tribal-Bob · April 2004

I think it would be cool to see a humanoid alien race. Sorta like the Predator.

Sewlek · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Edgecrusher @ Apr 7 2004, 04:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> there will be some problems with A vs A though, like oc spam will not be effective at protecting gorges because skulks could just quickly jump them and start biting the hell out of the gorge... just one issue i considered.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
hahaha! Biting the hell out of em <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />
I imagine this szenario and I guess I wont stop laughing during doing so... Gorges are just so fat and funny.

Zyko · April 2004

just a thought, would the oni's go and stomp eachother??..

Spacer · April 2004

has noone thought that holotraining would be the ideal excuse for MVM combat? I'm guessing the TSA wouldn't just be fighting aliens as their name is "Trans System <b>Authority</b>", implying that they keep the peace in general like a police force would do. If this was true, then they would require to be trained to fight against armed human assailants, and what better way to train for fighting armed humans than to train against the best equipped body of men in the universe, yourselves <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

Olmy · April 2004

but would that be as fun as the idea of fighting against another human force, sent in to stop your mission?

Spacer · April 2004

thats true, but if i understand correctly, doesn't MvM only work in co_ style maps? rather than ns_ style?

CaCa · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Edgecrusher @ Apr 7 2004, 05:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> or TSA vs Corporation Tactical Ops, sent in to stop the TSA from uncovering their nasty little secret aboard the particular research vessel...  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
that's what I meant...

Koji: you wounldn't actually need to add weapons and stuff to the "new marine team"...

I mean, in StarCraft, MvM is a mirror-like affair...

it <i>could</i> be done that the <b><i>models</i></b> for players/weapons/buildings (etc.) are "called upon" for the other human team...

so just the models'd change... it's an aesthetic thing only... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' />

BobTheJanitor · April 2004

I take MvM and AvA to mean nothing. You can't really do anything with it story wise. It's just silly fun. Of course it's not going to fit into the official story. Just take these modes and consider them 'pure gameplay', without any backing story to make sense of them. Because really, there's not going to be one.

Voodo · April 2004

My memory isnt the best, but i think, there was a line like this on suggestions forum: "There wont be 3rd team"
I think, marine vs marine include a 3rd team <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Rue · April 2004

This type of thing has been around for ages in mods like <a href='http://tfc.wireplay.co.uk/index.php?pg=map&id=66' target='_blank'>TFC</a>

Where they have added another team, but good work anyways

'wth??!!?!!?' <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' />

MrBill · April 2004

K, to clear a feew things up,

1. it's combat ONLY. I dont know the reasonning but ns_ maps will crash if you try so its COMBAT ONLY, so dont worry about ns_ problems there wont BE any

2. The cc problem I have theories on how to fix that already, by the end of the day (or week) i'll probably be able to tell if it works or not soon

Ill finish this later, when im at my own computer.

brute_force · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mr.Bill @ Apr 7 2004, 04:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> 2. The cc problem I have theories on how to fix that already, by the end of the day (or week) i'll probably be able to tell if it works or not soon  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
And if not, perhaps someone could make a plugin to make it work, or a plugin to disable CC welding? Might be interesting.

Olmy · April 2004

I think their is a solution to the cc welding problem but it is map dependant. Basically i thought what if you had a func_weldable that envelops the cc, and resets every second or so. Now, this weldable triggers a func_hurt that does negative damage, to heal the cc. Probably works, but its not an ideal solution.

Sewlek · April 2004

lol, so one team could hurt the enemy CC with welder and the other cant? So team one would have an advantage?

Olmy · April 2004

can you not specify which team uses the weldable? and why would the other team want to use the welder on the cc anway?

MrBill · April 2004

team 1 has a super advantage. the fact that team 2 cant heal their hive

But Im trying to get it so that everythin is map dependable, so that servers wouldn't have to be altered to play it, so everyone can enjoy it no matter what the server :-D

btw, there is no hive, at all in the MVM it is not needed if done properly.

I explained it here :
<a href='http://www.lunixmonster.org/forums/index.php?&act=ST&f=13&t=750' target='_blank'>http://www.lunixmonster.org/forums/index.p...t=ST&f=13&t=750</a>

Again i have a theory on fixing the cc prob so ill get that tested asap.

Narfwak · April 2004

If anyone here has read the whole "founding of the TSA" and "Six Days in Sanjii" backstory, they would know that there is plenty of oppotunity for marine versus marine backstory. I'm not going to explain because I think the story speaks for itself, and you should go read it.

As for actual MvM gameplay, it would be rather stale if both sides were identical, even if they had different models. Think of CS - even it has significant differences in both teams, and it's essentially a "shooter vs shooter" environment.

At the very least, make different marines have different advanced tech. For example, the TSA have jetpacks, HA, phase gates, cat packs and MT. The corporate or national authorities disobeying the TSA charter aren't going to have the latest tech that the TSA have (this is described in the backstory), but they might have something the TSA don't have - oodles and boodles of bling-bling and large armies. I'm not sure how this could be translated into new equipment, but it could easily translate into different gameplay senarios. For example, A TSA A-Team has to attack a corporate stronghold or ship with few or no reinforcements, but vastly superior equipment at their disposal. Any number of objective types could be arranged, from extraction (blech, CS), specific target neutralization (it doesn't have to be "plant the bomb"), to total conquest ("KILL EM ALL!").

As for AvA . . . well, I don't think it's going to work very well. It's going to be an all-melee battle, and with all fast moving classes, it's going to be difficult to get in there and get the kill. Fade v Fade battles or Onos v Onos would be incredbily dull, as neither class does enough damage to kill itself in a reasonable timeframe. The hive control system does sound much more interesting with AvA, but the nuts and bolts of the gameplay just won't work. To top it off, there is no backstory support for AvA infighting.

Olmy · April 2004

Narfwak as far as i recall, the major corporations who wanted to just destroy the infested spacestations, starships etc would have significantly more advanced tech than the TSA. I know this because the story describes the TSA as being highly competent but underfunded. But i would like to see variance. Perhaps making the corporation units more swift, but not with the same firepower. And perhaps an unusual technology like steal suits and detpacks. I know thats going quite far but i'm just considering the possibilities. Maybe that would create enough difference between the races to make the fights interesting.

I do have the same concerns about A vs A however.

[edit] i find the idea of the TSA launching offensives on other humans hard to believe, and it does not fit with the backstory. The TSA are meant to be the good guys.

Wurmspawn · April 2004

what about dem space priates? yar

ZeroByte · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Edgecrusher @ Apr 8 2004, 12:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Narfwak as far as i recall, the major corporations who wanted to just destroy the infested spacestations, starships etc would have significantly more advanced tech than the TSA. I know this because the story describes the TSA as being highly competent but underfunded.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
The TSA developed personal phasing tech before the other guys. They have better technical capabilities than the governments/corporations. It says so in the official backstory. However, they are underfunded, meaning they can't always deploy the best stuff. Their underfunding is kinda the reason they don't deploy with HA's/JP's right off the bat. They need to get the resources required to manufacture them from the ships/stations they are clearing out.

BobTheJanitor · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mr.Bill @ Apr 7 2004, 10:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> btw, there is no hive, at all in the MVM it is not needed if done properly.

I explained it here :
<a href='http://www.lunixmonster.org/forums/index.php?&act=ST&f=13&t=750' target='_blank'>http://www.lunixmonster.org/forums/index.p...t=ST&f=13&t=750</a>
 </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Uh... In the LM thread you say that you explain the lack of the hive on the ns.org forums, and in this thread you just said you explain in on the LM forums. Explain it, please!

And just saying 'there's no hive' isn't exactly an explanation. I'd like to hear exactly how it's accomplished. Give us what you know so far and then we can get all the mappers we've got here trying to get it working perfectly.

Also, as far as people still trying to come up with a backstory: There's no need. It's silly fun, just let it be silly fun. It is possible for marines to fight marines with no more reason than it's amusing, same with aliens.

MrBill · April 2004

hence the name co_silly <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' />

and I though I did explain it, You set your CC to team 3, the rest everything else, stays team 2 (now you might understand why team 2 can hurt their cc)

Marine Vs Marine

Comments