People need to stop freaking out. Take a chill pill, folks.
UWE has done an amazing job surviving all these years. Progress may be slow, but I know they're 100% dedicated to seeing NS2 through to the end, no matter how long it takes or how many of their children they have to sell.
You folks at UWE are all doing fantastic work, Cory! Don't let these naysayers and whiners get you down, I'm sure the majority of this community is behind you all the way. I know I am! ♥
<!--quoteo(post=1873970:date=Sep 9 2011, 11:00 PM:name=NurEinMensch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NurEinMensch @ Sep 9 2011, 11:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1873970"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow what some people expect after paying 20 bucks for a video game. You'd think they gave a kidney.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes!
I agree with that. Everyone is really annoying me because they are basically saying <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I bought this game so now I get to tell you what to do<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You bought the game for what you saw in it. That "IT" could be what you saw in its potential or what you saw in it at that current state but you still bought the game.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->THIS THREAD IS A FLAME THREAD<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
I think if people bought a game almost 2 years ago, they shouldn't have to play an unfinished game still. That's not how consumerism works.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> They didn't buy the game, they preordered it - with the bonus of being able to help develop the game through testing each new build.
I think if people bought a game almost 2 years ago, they shouldn't have to play an unfinished game still. That's not how consumerism works.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do know not everyone joins the forums right away right? You cant really base how long they've been playing either game based on that date. It isnt like they hand out accounts when you download either one.
I've been a fan and player of NS1 for instance since it was publicly available pretty much. I didn't bother making an account til last year. I mainly lurked about occasionally before that.
Same. I play a ns since its release on WON. I stopped one time, and I create a new account. And then what? Jokingly, I'm just trying to make him understand that if he is not happy >> get the ###### out of here (joke). Certainly, the community has a strong presence, but it is primarily the creation of the studio not the players. UW is not owned by a player, they are not shareholders or annuitant. It provides printing, gives little ideas, and that's it. Clearly, stop breaking balls !
Well players funded part of the game haven't they with pre-orders? And the game isn't fully released? They probably should be seen as shareholders, without the preorder money, they wouldn't be here.
<!--quoteo(post=1874040:date=Sep 10 2011, 05:22 AM:name=TekJ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TekJ @ Sep 10 2011, 05:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1874040"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Same. I play a ns since its release on WON. I stopped one time, and I create a new account. And then what? Jokingly, I'm just trying to make him understand that if he is not happy >> get the ###### out of here (joke). Certainly, the community has a strong presence, but it is primarily the creation of the studio not the players. UW is not owned by a player, they are not shareholders or annuitant. It provides printing, gives little ideas, and that's it. Clearly, stop breaking balls !<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well admittedly some have also contributed fixes themselves basically, not just ideas, bug reports, and content (maps for instance). People besides UW have directly rather than indirectly influenced getting this done quicker, while that doesn't entitle ownership, but probably gratitude. Though I'm sure most of those contributors just want to see this finished rather than see a thank you.
But I agree some are perhaps being a bit harsh, I suppose moral is a bit low for some people. It's maybe to be expected given this somewhat unusual environment, I can't really say though as I'm certainly not used to this either, the closest I've been to this is following some mods.
(moving mostly back to topic)
As far as getting back to basics, I'm fine with how things are going for the most part all things considered, I'd of course like to see the last of the already decided content dropped in already, but it sounds like that's coming soon(ish) anyways and I've waited a long time as it is so I'm not exactly unaccustomed to a bit more waiting.
One or two things I'm certainly a bit antsy about seeing though is (and everyone has heard this so many times) a flamethrower that isn't a flashlight and to finally tear through a map as an onos (though the EXO is sounding more appealing as time goes). That'll be quite a celebration for me when that day comes and I'll savor it plenty in the form of.. well more playing of course, perhaps a cake or something. What's a good party without one?
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1874043:date=Sep 10 2011, 12:40 PM:name=konata)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (konata @ Sep 10 2011, 12:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1874043"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well players funded part of the game haven't they with pre-orders? And the game isn't fully released? They probably should be seen as shareholders, without the preorder money, they wouldn't be here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The first part might have some truth, but we are all just beta testers, nothing more. We test the stuff they put out, and help them find the problems. That doesn't make anyone an investor, or give anyone the rights to decide what they should work on next. We can merely request and suggest. And thats all they need.
I think my tune is going to change a little bit guys... I had a long talk with a few of my NS2 buds and I came to the realization that we aren't investors. We simply purchased a pre-order and with that were "allowed" to play the game before it's released. It does not entitle us to demand anything from UWE nor does it truly give us the right to criticize them like we are doing.
I think UWE has done a fantastic job at keeping the dream of a second installment of Natural Selection a possibility. The main issue with a lot of the NS1 players is that we have been left with the desire and craving for a game like Natural Selection and that just doesn't exist at the moment. Natural Selection in itself is one of a kind and nothing has (in my opinion) come close to it. You can throw a hundred modern shooters in a bucket and I still feel Natural Selection 1 will come out on top due to it's absolutely 1-of-a-kind feel.
Everyone wants Natural Selection 2 to be finished (myself being one of them) and everyone wants it to have all the bells and whistles that Natural Selection 1 had. I've come to terms with the fact that having such a small team, UWE is actually doing a fantastic job at producing a game from scratch pretty much. They have done a fantastic job at being sponges and taking in the amount of feedback they get on a daily basis. One thing I came to terms with is that the amount of man hours they have to spend coming on the forums and communicating with the community builds up and costs money. Money which UWE (at this point) doesn't have a steady stream just flowing in.
I consider myself a little different than most of the pre-order participants as I have spent many hours creating/posting videos, bug testing maps, finding ways to break the game and much more to better help UWE make a great title. My beef is none of it has really been noticed, but now that I think of it, I am being a tad bit selfish to require them to say thank you for everything I've posted/suggested.
From here on out, my approach will be much different towards UWE and how things are going with Natural Selection 2. To require a team of 6-10 brains to produce a game as complex and unique as Natural Selection 2 in less than 2 years is simply arrogant. Yes, I would love to see them magically get the game running at a steady 100FPS, but I know that takes time and man hours, which they currently are stretched extremely thin on. I apologize for my rough approach, I just really want to see Natural Selection 2 succeed in every way possible and I am just very passionate about this title.
Thanks for NS2 UWE and I appreciate what has been done up to this point...
Regarding the OP (and not the 3 pages of worthless discussion): I would like to see NS2 play/feel like NS1. I know from tweets that Flayra has sat down with one PC running NS1 and the other running NS2 to try to recreate that feel but I don't think it's there yet. Specifically, the way the marine can move and interact with the map is very much lacking when compared to NS1. In NS1, to avoid a skulk, I could jump on a rail then jump off onto something else all while still shooting the skulk. While that may sound overpowered, the skulk had similar abilities and if used correctly resulted in a very tense and movement based combat system. I don't feel like NS2 has that yet and I'm not sure if it will (by game design choice). For the most part I am satisfied with how the aliens move and the skulk's wall-walking and the fade's blink have seen significant improvements. Once the Onos is in I would like to see a lot maps implement weldable doors. While they were in NS1 they were underutilized and NS2 can definitely improve upon that.
That said, it's very difficult to make statements like that before the game is at least content complete. Based off me skimming this thread I think people are treating NS2 like it's an actual game and not the unfinished game it is. Here's a tip: if you think NS2 sucks just stop playing. I just came back to it after a 5 month leave. I thought it sucked, at the time I didn't have a good enough video card to run such an unoptimized game, and I wasn't having fun. If that sounds like you try a little break.
(small side note; anyone who's been around NS long enough knows I've been banned more times than I can count and more than half the community likely despises me. So imagine how bad things must be when I say NS2's general discussion needs much more strict moderation. Let off topic be for stupid posts and trolls but this whole thread went to ######. This is why I normally stay out of general discussion.)
<!--quoteo(post=1873937:date=Sep 9 2011, 08:21 PM:name=culprit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (culprit @ Sep 9 2011, 08:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1873937"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Stop throwing fits and screaming just because your toy hasn't lived up to your imagination of it yet. Be a grown-up and have a sense of delayed-gratification. If you have to, go play something else while NS2 gets more features and polish. But please don't whine about a process you chose to invest your money in. No one forced you to do so.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's quite a bit of over exaggeration going on here about the replies made so far, sure some points may be flawed or overly negative but many of them are well reasoned and valid, we all want to see the game succeed.
Technically speaking we may not be investors but we paid for a product with certain expectations and we want a return on that payment in a reasonable time frame (2 to 3 years) with regular(ish) updates and a reasonable rate of progress as time goes on, there will be peaks and dips in development, that's to be expected but also understand that people will feel a bit disappointed when these dips go on for too long with nothing new to keep our interest, like it or not there is a big gap in some areas, most of the focus appears to be on the engine, bug fixing and minor stuff, there's far to little progress on visible improvements we can all enjoy, i would hope to see something new every month or two at this stage of development with a big update every so often.
... then you would have something to worry about, fans rage and fanboys( and girls ) will flock to defend because there is a passion or intrest. I wouldnt be mouthing off or calling the UWE people off thier heads if I didnt care about the product, I wouldnt be here if I didnt have an intrest. I still think that UWE has lost some focus, and is meandering all over the show which I suspect is due to having smack into a wall and having a hard time getting around it.
PS: I still think Squad Spawn is a cop out and retarded as hell idea that breaks the basic flow of combat in NS.
Some of you guys seriously need to take a few steps back and get some perspective. You're bumming out the devs. Forum-disappointment manifests as a positive feedback loop; just take a break from it. I think you'll find that if you calm down and take a look back on some of these comments in a few weeks or a few months, you'll realize how silly a lot of the negativity around here sounds to the rest of us.
To the devs: NS2 is coming along great; keep up the good work. You didn't pick an easy industry, but you're sticking with it -- a lot of us really do appreciate that.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1874058:date=Sep 10 2011, 03:18 PM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Sep 10 2011, 03:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1874058"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Regarding the OP (and not the 3 pages of worthless discussion): I would like to see NS2 play/feel like NS1. I know from tweets that Flayra has sat down with one PC running NS1 and the other running NS2 to try to recreate that feel but I don't think it's there yet. Specifically, the way the marine can move and interact with the map is very much lacking when compared to NS1. In NS1, to avoid a skulk, I could jump on a rail then jump off onto something else all while still shooting the skulk. While that may sound overpowered, the skulk had similar abilities and if used correctly resulted in a very tense and movement based combat system. I don't feel like NS2 has that yet and I'm not sure if it will (by game design choice). For the most part I am satisfied with how the aliens move and the skulk's wall-walking and the fade's blink have seen significant improvements. Once the Onos is in I would like to see a lot maps implement weldable doors. While they were in NS1 they were underutilized and NS2 can definitely improve upon that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree with most of this. I've been relentlessly attacking the lack of a movement possibilites in a few other threads, but I guess I should also mention one very positive change: The wallwalking in NS2 is much better than it ever was in NS. So much better that it now actually has a valid use in combat and should open up a lot of possibilites when wallhopping is implemented.
I agree with CMC, if people are going to add anything to these forums then please be constructive in your criticism.
A lot of my posts are extremely examining, and sometimes very critical. But it is only because I love what UWE are doing, and it would be a dream to work for an independent company like UWE on such an awesome title.
UWE should be praised with giving this community so much access and interaction, but sometimes I feel that it hinders what they do as much as it helps.
People on here make some really negative comments, and a lot of the time don't understand the design process. I work in design professionally (not game design) and it is hard to appreciate the processes involved when you don't see what is happening on the inside.
If you really don't like what is happening, then ask for a refund. Otherwise stop whining, or better still, start a thread and add some suggestions.
<!--quoteo(post=1874111:date=Sep 11 2011, 12:28 AM:name=meb3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (meb3 @ Sep 11 2011, 12:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1874111"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->any company that can't take negative criticism should get out of business completely<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1873934:date=Sep 9 2011, 11:07 AM:name=fmpone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fmpone @ Sep 9 2011, 11:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1873934"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lets see some of those shaders that make the game look 10x better, and make everybody happy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Graphics should be the last task on their list. The game looks decend enough and I agree with Cory that making the game qwork first (and adding features) is way more important then some fancy effects which only serve the puropse of eye candy.
Edit: If a screenshot is enough, then look at this: <!--quoteo(post=1854872:date=Jun 20 2011, 05:42 PM:name=Zuriki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zuriki @ Jun 20 2011, 05:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1854872"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://filesmelt.com/dl/NS2_1.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://imgur.com/WuXUhs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://filesmelt.com/dl/NS2_2.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://imgur.com/NypCys.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> </a><a href="http://filesmelt.com/dl/NS2_3.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://imgur.com/UkPSOs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If we pre order we are Investors or Shareholders<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> bull$hi']['! I pre-ordered Duke Nukem for like 5 years and wasn't able to influence it in any way. A pre order is just what it is. If you buy anything in the internet (lets say from amazon), it is a pre order too. You have to wait until your product is back into stock and arrives at your door. But this doesn't make you an investor of amazon. I am sure that amazon would care a fat lot if every customer tries to make them work the way he think it's best.
Same goes for preordering NS2 UWE even adds the bonus that we can play the beta as long as we wait and watch the game grow. Please be a little more patient and thankful ... or come back when the game is done.
Edit: BTW. Calling everyone who is positive here a "fanboy" doesn't make the argument invalid.
<!--quoteo(post=1874111:date=Sep 10 2011, 07:28 PM:name=meb3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (meb3 @ Sep 10 2011, 07:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1874111"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->shut up you babies
any company that can't take negative criticism should get out of business completely<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thing is, this is a labour of love for the guys at UWE. It's not some hugs business with no faces and suits. It's a small bunch of guys who love what they do. Criticising them personally is different to criticising their product.
Negative criticism is fine and is part of the development process, but back it up with reason and not just insult. Positive encouragement following the negative crit will at least show people are human and are not just joining in a b!tch-fest.
<!--quoteo(post=1873937:date=Sep 9 2011, 08:21 PM:name=culprit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (culprit @ Sep 9 2011, 08:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1873937"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just read Cory's post from the dev tracker. Geez people!
When you paid your money to participate in this process, you had to know it wasn't going to be like your standard 'play the beta a month before release' marketing ploy. UWE has a huge dream they are working extremely hard to realize. You've paid to be apart of that process. It's a long, dirty and chaotic process to put it mildly. But just look at the progress that has been made from the original engine test release. We've gone from shooting target dummies to having a pretty awesome fade blink and cyst-based DI along with flame-throwers and MACs and ARCs and grenade launchers. There's still lots to be done on many fronts, but to doubt UWE's ability to achieve those tasks at this point seems really childish.
Stop throwing fits and screaming just because your toy hasn't lived up to your imagination of it yet. Be a grown-up and have a sense of delayed-gratification. If you have to, go play something else while NS2 gets more features and polish. But please don't whine about a process you chose to invest your money in. No one forced you to do so.
Can't you just be happy that UWE has allowed us the opportunity to be involved in this process?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is kind of an odd viewpoint, it doesn't make a lot of sense if you apply the logic to any other situation.
If you go into a sandwich shop and give someone money to make you a sandwich, and you come back the next week and they still aren't done, but they give you one slice of bread with half the stuff on it and say 'this sandwich is harder to make then I thought, but here, you can be part of the sandwich making process' and you eat the half a sandwich and it tastes horrible, what is the expected response?
1. 'Oh thank you mr sandwich shop man you have allowed me to see behind the scenes of your sandwich making business, my life has been enriched by the knowledge of the terrible hardships you undergo daily as a person in a difficult field trying to make your way between all the other big sandwich shops who are all making really good sandwiches with the best ingredients and stuff, it's a pleasure to not get my sandwich that I paid for and you said would be done last week.'
2. 'What is wrong with you? Why are you wasting everyone's time? What are you doing with your life? You are terrible at making sandwiches, give me my money back you utter joke of a person.'
Honestly I think people are showing surprising restraint.
Asking for continued patience with the ongoing problems is understandable, telling people they should be thankful for them? That's more than a little insulting I think.
Wow, I didn't know making a sandwich and building a video game from the ground up were comparable tasks....Learn something new everyday.
I pre-ordered the special edition last year. I wasn't expecting any miracle releases. I know what I'm in for, they're a small group and it takes time to release a quality product. Most people here are vets of NS1, they know UWE is small. They're not some juggernaut releasing games every year. They're an indie company. I don't blame Cory for his frustrated one liner there, and that's all it was, and people are jumping all over him for it. Not that I visit the forums that much, but the devs are pretty good about answering people with well written questions (From what I've seen). I wouldn't want to answer to a bunch of whiners.
<!--quoteo(post=1874125:date=Sep 11 2011, 07:07 AM:name=Shilorius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shilorius @ Sep 11 2011, 07:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1874125"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Same goes for preordering NS2 UWE even adds the bonus that we can play the beta as long as we wait and watch the game grow. Please be a little more patient and thankful ... or come back when the game is done.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't like how people use this 'bonus' argument. We get to play this mostly because UWE needs funding through preorders while the game isn't quite complete yet. Most of the preorders were probably made in belief that the game would be a lot closer to complete by now and I highly doubt the majority of preorderers expected to see the game in this state, not at least for a longer period of time.
I guess the thing I'm trying to say is that I'd like to see the situation aknowledged as they are. Sometimes stuff hits the fan and things go bad, that happens and things don't always work as they're supposed to. It's all understandable to an extend. However, I don't like the idea of turning those unexpected difficulties into something everyone should enjoy and be grateful about.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Term)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Term)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not that I visit the forums that much, but the devs are pretty good about answering people with well written questions (From what I've seen). I wouldn't want to answer to a bunch of whiners.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've talked about this before occassionally. I find it great that UWE takes time to answer some of the smaller question, but everything is often lacking the bigger picture and context. There is no information beyond the next patch (if even that) nor are there any bigger insights about the design or plan. Tweets, progress notes, brief thoughts in design log and occassional forum posts just can't replace a good well written blog post or article. In the longer run those more solid writings are very much necessary.
<!--quoteo(post=1874134:date=Sep 11 2011, 06:43 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Sep 11 2011, 06:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1874134"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That is kind of an odd viewpoint, it doesn't make a lot of sense if you apply the logic to any other situation.
If you go into a sandwich shop and give someone money to make you a sandwich, and you come back the next week and they still aren't done, but they give you one slice of bread with half the stuff on it and say 'this sandwich is harder to make then I thought, but here, you can be part of the sandwich making process' and you eat the half a sandwich and it tastes horrible, what is the expected response?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you go into a <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->skyscraper<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> shop and give someone money to make you a <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->skyscraper<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, and you come back in ten years and they still aren't done, but they give you access to 40/80 floors for you to lease out with half the lifts working and say 'this skyscraper is harder to make then I thought, we had some bad weather, and some of our new structral innovations are having teething problems, but here, you can lease out the finished floors of the skyscraper' and your tennants move in to the first 40 floors <b>and they actually find the building decent</b>, what is the expected response?
If you go into a <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->car<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> shop and give someone money to make you a <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->crazy track day weapon<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, and you come back the next month and they still aren't done, but they give you they keys to the car with half the race gear in it and say 'this car is harder to make then I thought, that new suspension is proving tricky to tune, and the new cylinder arrangement has some production drawbacks, but here, you can drive the car on the track while we work to finish it' and you drive the car <b>and it's actually pretty fast and fun</b>, what is the expected response?
If you go into a <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->game forum<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> and give someone a <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->terrible analogy<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, and you come back the next day and everyone's pointing out how terrible your analogy is, but they give you the benefit of the doubt and say 'Gee man, we know it's sometimes frustrating that this game is taking longer than expected, doing something completely unique in the games industry is proving harder than expected, but here, isn't it fun that we are part of the game making process' and you play the game and it's <b>actually quite alot of fun</b>, what is the expected response?
EDIT: Anyone who'd like to leave toxic threads and come play some fun games of NS2 with me - My Steam is in my sig!
Comments
UWE has done an amazing job surviving all these years. Progress may be slow, but I know they're 100% dedicated to seeing NS2 through to the end, no matter how long it takes or how many of their children they have to sell.
You folks at UWE are all doing fantastic work, Cory! Don't let these naysayers and whiners get you down, I'm sure the majority of this community is behind you all the way. I know I am! ♥
Yes!
I agree with that. Everyone is really annoying me because they are basically saying
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I bought this game so now I get to tell you what to do<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You bought the game for what you saw in it. That "IT" could be what you saw in its potential or what you saw in it at that current state but you still bought the game.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->THIS THREAD IS A FLAME THREAD<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
I think if people bought a game almost 2 years ago, they shouldn't have to play an unfinished game still. That's not how consumerism works.
I think if people bought a game almost 2 years ago, they shouldn't have to play an unfinished game still. That's not how consumerism works.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They didn't buy the game, they preordered it - with the bonus of being able to help develop the game through testing each new build.
I think if people bought a game almost 2 years ago, they shouldn't have to play an unfinished game still. That's not how consumerism works.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--fonto:Impact--><span style="font-family:Impact"><!--/fonto-->Who talks here?<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Obviously, you're not one of them to talk that way. Let the people who have the beta since 2 years to see what they think...
You cant really base how long they've been playing either game based on that date. It isnt like they hand out accounts when you download either one.
I've been a fan and player of NS1 for instance since it was publicly available pretty much. I didn't bother making an account til last year. I mainly lurked about occasionally before that.
And then what? Jokingly, I'm just trying to make him understand that if he is not happy >> get the ###### out of here (joke). Certainly, the community has a strong presence, but it is primarily the creation of the studio not the players. UW is not owned by a player, they are not shareholders or annuitant. It provides printing, gives little ideas, and that's it.
Clearly, stop breaking balls !
And then what? Jokingly, I'm just trying to make him understand that if he is not happy >> get the ###### out of here (joke). Certainly, the community has a strong presence, but it is primarily the creation of the studio not the players. UW is not owned by a player, they are not shareholders or annuitant. It provides printing, gives little ideas, and that's it.
Clearly, stop breaking balls !<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well admittedly some have also contributed fixes themselves basically, not just ideas, bug reports, and content (maps for instance). People besides UW have directly rather than indirectly influenced getting this done quicker, while that doesn't entitle ownership, but probably gratitude. Though I'm sure most of those contributors just want to see this finished rather than see a thank you.
But I agree some are perhaps being a bit harsh, I suppose moral is a bit low for some people. It's maybe to be expected given this somewhat unusual environment, I can't really say though as I'm certainly not used to this either, the closest I've been to this is following some mods.
(moving mostly back to topic)
As far as getting back to basics, I'm fine with how things are going for the most part all things considered, I'd of course like to see the last of the already decided content dropped in already, but it sounds like that's coming soon(ish) anyways and I've waited a long time as it is so I'm not exactly unaccustomed to a bit more waiting.
One or two things I'm certainly a bit antsy about seeing though is (and everyone has heard this so many times) a flamethrower that isn't a flashlight and to finally tear through a map as an onos (though the EXO is sounding more appealing as time goes). That'll be quite a celebration for me when that day comes
and I'll savor it plenty in the form of.. well more playing of course, perhaps a cake or something. What's a good party without one?
Edit: I Probably should quote more often.
The first part might have some truth, but we are all just beta testers, nothing more. We test the stuff they put out, and help them find the problems.
That doesn't make anyone an investor, or give anyone the rights to decide what they should work on next. We can merely request and suggest. And thats all they need.
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<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--fonto:Impact--><span style="font-family:Impact"><!--/fonto-->Who talks here?<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This made me laugh
I think UWE has done a fantastic job at keeping the dream of a second installment of Natural Selection a possibility. The main issue with a lot of the NS1 players is that we have been left with the desire and craving for a game like Natural Selection and that just doesn't exist at the moment. Natural Selection in itself is one of a kind and nothing has (in my opinion) come close to it. You can throw a hundred modern shooters in a bucket and I still feel Natural Selection 1 will come out on top due to it's absolutely 1-of-a-kind feel.
Everyone wants Natural Selection 2 to be finished (myself being one of them) and everyone wants it to have all the bells and whistles that Natural Selection 1 had. I've come to terms with the fact that having such a small team, UWE is actually doing a fantastic job at producing a game from scratch pretty much. They have done a fantastic job at being sponges and taking in the amount of feedback they get on a daily basis. One thing I came to terms with is that the amount of man hours they have to spend coming on the forums and communicating with the community builds up and costs money. Money which UWE (at this point) doesn't have a steady stream just flowing in.
I consider myself a little different than most of the pre-order participants as I have spent many hours creating/posting videos, bug testing maps, finding ways to break the game and much more to better help UWE make a great title. My beef is none of it has really been noticed, but now that I think of it, I am being a tad bit selfish to require them to say thank you for everything I've posted/suggested.
From here on out, my approach will be much different towards UWE and how things are going with Natural Selection 2. To require a team of 6-10 brains to produce a game as complex and unique as Natural Selection 2 in less than 2 years is simply arrogant. Yes, I would love to see them magically get the game running at a steady 100FPS, but I know that takes time and man hours, which they currently are stretched extremely thin on. I apologize for my rough approach, I just really want to see Natural Selection 2 succeed in every way possible and I am just very passionate about this title.
Thanks for NS2 UWE and I appreciate what has been done up to this point...
/end walloftext
The damage has been done!
;)
That said, it's very difficult to make statements like that before the game is at least content complete. Based off me skimming this thread I think people are treating NS2 like it's an actual game and not the unfinished game it is. Here's a tip: if you think NS2 sucks just stop playing. I just came back to it after a 5 month leave. I thought it sucked, at the time I didn't have a good enough video card to run such an unoptimized game, and I wasn't having fun. If that sounds like you try a little break.
(small side note; anyone who's been around NS long enough knows I've been banned more times than I can count and more than half the community likely despises me. So imagine how bad things must be when I say NS2's general discussion needs much more strict moderation. Let off topic be for stupid posts and trolls but this whole thread went to ######. This is why I normally stay out of general discussion.)
There's quite a bit of over exaggeration going on here about the replies made so far, sure some points may be flawed or overly negative but many of them are well reasoned and valid, we all want to see the game succeed.
Technically speaking we may not be investors but we paid for a product with certain expectations and we want a return on that payment in a reasonable time frame (2 to 3 years) with regular(ish) updates and a reasonable rate of progress as time goes on, there will be peaks and dips in development, that's to be expected but also understand that people will feel a bit disappointed when these dips go on for too long with nothing new to keep our interest, like it or not there is a big gap in some areas, most of the focus appears to be on the engine, bug fixing and minor stuff, there's far to little progress on visible improvements we can all enjoy, i would hope to see something new every month or two at this stage of development with a big update every so often.
If the response was ...
... then you would have something to worry about, fans rage and fanboys( and girls ) will flock to defend because there is a passion or intrest.
I wouldnt be mouthing off or calling the UWE people off thier heads if I didnt care about the product, I wouldnt be here if I didnt have an intrest.
I still think that UWE has lost some focus, and is meandering all over the show which I suspect is due to having smack into a wall and having a hard time getting around it.
PS: I still think Squad Spawn is a cop out and retarded as hell idea that breaks the basic flow of combat in NS.
To the devs: NS2 is coming along great; keep up the good work. You didn't pick an easy industry, but you're sticking with it -- a lot of us really do appreciate that.
I agree with most of this. I've been relentlessly attacking the lack of a movement possibilites in a few other threads, but I guess I should also mention one very positive change: The wallwalking in NS2 is much better than it ever was in NS. So much better that it now actually has a valid use in combat and should open up a lot of possibilites when wallhopping is implemented.
Thanks everyone. *bows*
A lot of my posts are extremely examining, and sometimes very critical. But it is only because I love what UWE are doing, and it would be a dream to work for an independent company like UWE on such an awesome title.
UWE should be praised with giving this community so much access and interaction, but sometimes I feel that it hinders what they do as much as it helps.
People on here make some really negative comments, and a lot of the time don't understand the design process. I work in design professionally (not game design) and it is hard to appreciate the processes involved when you don't see what is happening on the inside.
If you really don't like what is happening, then ask for a refund. Otherwise stop whining, or better still, start a thread and add some suggestions.
any company that can't take negative criticism should get out of business completely
QFT
Devs: We know.
Fans: It's STILL taking too long.
Devs: We STILL know.
Fans: Yeah, but it's annoying.
Devs: ...
Graphics should be the last task on their list. The game looks decend enough and I agree with Cory that making the game qwork first (and adding features) is way more important then some fancy effects which only serve the puropse of eye candy.
Edit: If a screenshot is enough, then look at this:
<!--quoteo(post=1854872:date=Jun 20 2011, 05:42 PM:name=Zuriki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zuriki @ Jun 20 2011, 05:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1854872"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://filesmelt.com/dl/NS2_1.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://imgur.com/WuXUhs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://filesmelt.com/dl/NS2_2.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://imgur.com/NypCys.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> </a><a href="http://filesmelt.com/dl/NS2_3.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://imgur.com/UkPSOs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If we pre order we are Investors or Shareholders<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
bull$hi']['! I pre-ordered Duke Nukem for like 5 years and wasn't able to influence it in any way.
A pre order is just what it is.
If you buy anything in the internet (lets say from amazon), it is a pre order too. You have to wait until your product is back into stock and arrives at your door. But this doesn't make you an investor of amazon. I am sure that amazon would care a fat lot if every customer tries to make them work the way he think it's best.
Same goes for preordering NS2
UWE even adds the bonus that we can play the beta as long as we wait and watch the game grow.
Please be a little more patient and thankful ... or come back when the game is done.
Edit:
BTW. Calling everyone who is positive here a "fanboy" doesn't make the argument invalid.
any company that can't take negative criticism should get out of business completely<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thing is, this is a labour of love for the guys at UWE. It's not some hugs business with no faces and suits. It's a small bunch of guys who love what they do. Criticising them personally is different to criticising their product.
Negative criticism is fine and is part of the development process, but back it up with reason and not just insult. Positive encouragement following the negative crit will at least show people are human and are not just joining in a b!tch-fest.
When you paid your money to participate in this process, you had to know it wasn't going to be like your standard 'play the beta a month before release' marketing ploy. UWE has a huge dream they are working extremely hard to realize. You've paid to be apart of that process. It's a long, dirty and chaotic process to put it mildly. But just look at the progress that has been made from the original engine test release. We've gone from shooting target dummies to having a pretty awesome fade blink and cyst-based DI along with flame-throwers and MACs and ARCs and grenade launchers. There's still lots to be done on many fronts, but to doubt UWE's ability to achieve those tasks at this point seems really childish.
Stop throwing fits and screaming just because your toy hasn't lived up to your imagination of it yet. Be a grown-up and have a sense of delayed-gratification. If you have to, go play something else while NS2 gets more features and polish. But please don't whine about a process you chose to invest your money in. No one forced you to do so.
Can't you just be happy that UWE has allowed us the opportunity to be involved in this process?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is kind of an odd viewpoint, it doesn't make a lot of sense if you apply the logic to any other situation.
If you go into a sandwich shop and give someone money to make you a sandwich, and you come back the next week and they still aren't done, but they give you one slice of bread with half the stuff on it and say 'this sandwich is harder to make then I thought, but here, you can be part of the sandwich making process' and you eat the half a sandwich and it tastes horrible, what is the expected response?
1. 'Oh thank you mr sandwich shop man you have allowed me to see behind the scenes of your sandwich making business, my life has been enriched by the knowledge of the terrible hardships you undergo daily as a person in a difficult field trying to make your way between all the other big sandwich shops who are all making really good sandwiches with the best ingredients and stuff, it's a pleasure to not get my sandwich that I paid for and you said would be done last week.'
2. 'What is wrong with you? Why are you wasting everyone's time? What are you doing with your life? You are terrible at making sandwiches, give me my money back you utter joke of a person.'
Honestly I think people are showing surprising restraint.
Asking for continued patience with the ongoing problems is understandable, telling people they should be thankful for them? That's more than a little insulting I think.
I pre-ordered the special edition last year. I wasn't expecting any miracle releases. I know what I'm in for, they're a small group and it takes time to release a quality product. Most people here are vets of NS1, they know UWE is small. They're not some juggernaut releasing games every year. They're an indie company. I don't blame Cory for his frustrated one liner there, and that's all it was, and people are jumping all over him for it. Not that I visit the forums that much, but the devs are pretty good about answering people with well written questions (From what I've seen). I wouldn't want to answer to a bunch of whiners.
UWE even adds the bonus that we can play the beta as long as we wait and watch the game grow.
Please be a little more patient and thankful ... or come back when the game is done.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't like how people use this 'bonus' argument. We get to play this mostly because UWE needs funding through preorders while the game isn't quite complete yet. Most of the preorders were probably made in belief that the game would be a lot closer to complete by now and I highly doubt the majority of preorderers expected to see the game in this state, not at least for a longer period of time.
I guess the thing I'm trying to say is that I'd like to see the situation aknowledged as they are. Sometimes stuff hits the fan and things go bad, that happens and things don't always work as they're supposed to. It's all understandable to an extend. However, I don't like the idea of turning those unexpected difficulties into something everyone should enjoy and be grateful about.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Term)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Term)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not that I visit the forums that much, but the devs are pretty good about answering people with well written questions (From what I've seen). I wouldn't want to answer to a bunch of whiners.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've talked about this before occassionally. I find it great that UWE takes time to answer some of the smaller question, but everything is often lacking the bigger picture and context. There is no information beyond the next patch (if even that) nor are there any bigger insights about the design or plan. Tweets, progress notes, brief thoughts in design log and occassional forum posts just can't replace a good well written blog post or article. In the longer run those more solid writings are very much necessary.
If you go into a sandwich shop and give someone money to make you a sandwich, and you come back the next week and they still aren't done, but they give you one slice of bread with half the stuff on it and say 'this sandwich is harder to make then I thought, but here, you can be part of the sandwich making process' and you eat the half a sandwich and it tastes horrible, what is the expected response?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you go into a <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->skyscraper<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> shop and give someone money to make you a <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->skyscraper<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, and you come back in ten years and they still aren't done, but they give you access to 40/80 floors for you to lease out with half the lifts working and say 'this skyscraper is harder to make then I thought, we had some bad weather, and some of our new structral innovations are having teething problems, but here, you can lease out the finished floors of the skyscraper' and your tennants move in to the first 40 floors <b>and they actually find the building decent</b>, what is the expected response?
If you go into a <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->car<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> shop and give someone money to make you a <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->crazy track day weapon<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, and you come back the next month and they still aren't done, but they give you they keys to the car with half the race gear in it and say 'this car is harder to make then I thought, that new suspension is proving tricky to tune, and the new cylinder arrangement has some production drawbacks, but here, you can drive the car on the track while we work to finish it' and you drive the car <b>and it's actually pretty fast and fun</b>, what is the expected response?
If you go into a <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->game forum<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> and give someone a <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->terrible analogy<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, and you come back the next day and everyone's pointing out how terrible your analogy is, but they give you the benefit of the doubt and say 'Gee man, we know it's sometimes frustrating that this game is taking longer than expected, doing something completely unique in the games industry is proving harder than expected, but here, isn't it fun that we are part of the game making process' and you play the game and it's <b>actually quite alot of fun</b>, what is the expected response?
EDIT: Anyone who'd like to leave toxic threads and come play some fun games of NS2 with me - My Steam is in my sig!