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Ohnojojo
Join Date: 2011-08-01 Member: 113400Members
Join Date: 2011-08-01 Member: 113400Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Cry to Devs to refocus on Final Product</div>This is not a rage thread. Raging is hardly constructive.
The purpose of this thread is to hopefully give developers a general sense of the atmosphere of the forum community.
To offer possible solutions to potential problems, in a calm and collected manner.
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i>Simply put, I want Developers to be able to gather constructive criticisms from this thread without the negativity</i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
There seems to be an ever-growing feeling among the community that UWE has in some ways lost its sense of direction.
<u>List your reasons why and please try to be <b><i>constructive</i></b>.</u>
This thread is <b>NOT</b> about bugs or glitches or specific balancing issues.
<b>This thread is about major gameplay mechanics, patches, general direction of the game.</b>
Propose some simple/short solution(s) and...
<u>End each post on a positive note.</u>
--------------------------------------
My biggest concern for UWE is whether they will be able to release a good quality game that can draw today's broader gaming audience, given their small staff and lack of a final product deadline.
I would like to see NS2 focus on introducing the Onos, Dynamic Infestation, Heavy Armor, Jetpacks, Shift, Flamethrower 2.0 and etc. before investing so much effort into balancing or new features.
Squad-spawning seems questionable but if done properly it has potential. Must see it in action to give proper feedback.
I know its a small team of developers who work very hard and I don't want to rush a quality product but time is an issue for many reasons: game engine becoming outdated, consumer patience wearing thin, marketability fading among NS2's followers of varying degrees of interest.
On a positive note, Shade and Lerkv2.0 are great! I trust that UWE will continue to work hard to provide a quality end product and I can't wait for the next big feature patch to give me and many others some peace of mind and cool things to play with. NS1 has thoroughly entertained me since its release and I'm sure UWE can make another amazing game. I understand not everyone can be pleased, but regardless, I'm rooting for you UWE!
The purpose of this thread is to hopefully give developers a general sense of the atmosphere of the forum community.
To offer possible solutions to potential problems, in a calm and collected manner.
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i>Simply put, I want Developers to be able to gather constructive criticisms from this thread without the negativity</i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
There seems to be an ever-growing feeling among the community that UWE has in some ways lost its sense of direction.
<u>List your reasons why and please try to be <b><i>constructive</i></b>.</u>
This thread is <b>NOT</b> about bugs or glitches or specific balancing issues.
<b>This thread is about major gameplay mechanics, patches, general direction of the game.</b>
Propose some simple/short solution(s) and...
<u>End each post on a positive note.</u>
--------------------------------------
My biggest concern for UWE is whether they will be able to release a good quality game that can draw today's broader gaming audience, given their small staff and lack of a final product deadline.
I would like to see NS2 focus on introducing the Onos, Dynamic Infestation, Heavy Armor, Jetpacks, Shift, Flamethrower 2.0 and etc. before investing so much effort into balancing or new features.
Squad-spawning seems questionable but if done properly it has potential. Must see it in action to give proper feedback.
I know its a small team of developers who work very hard and I don't want to rush a quality product but time is an issue for many reasons: game engine becoming outdated, consumer patience wearing thin, marketability fading among NS2's followers of varying degrees of interest.
On a positive note, Shade and Lerkv2.0 are great! I trust that UWE will continue to work hard to provide a quality end product and I can't wait for the next big feature patch to give me and many others some peace of mind and cool things to play with. NS1 has thoroughly entertained me since its release and I'm sure UWE can make another amazing game. I understand not everyone can be pleased, but regardless, I'm rooting for you UWE!
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
We have an internal product deadline. And we are actively looking for additional employees, as you've probably seen from all our UWE is hiring messages.
--Cory
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd love to contribute something, but sadly I have no skills of value to contribute. I wish I could program for you guys or something. If I knew how to. :(
To me, it looks like you've reached a point where you've lost focus on the important things, you're chasing down minor features, balance and tweaks when you should be chasing down the huge gaping holes in a very feature incomplete beta. I feel it's absolutely critical that you focus on getting what we can call a "feature complete-ish" version of the game ready before you make changes in the mechanics where things don't work instead of working ass-upwards changing minor mechanics without the big-picture.
Cory, I know you're extremely critical of comments like this (almost to the point of sounding hostile) but you surely you can see that you're (to make a very relevant <i>(and poorly constructed)</i> metaphor) colouring in the picture, without first drawing the outline.
You all care about this project you're pouring your life energy into, and your fans all care and want to see it succeed too. That is why I feel I have an <b>obligation</b> to express my concern when it looks like you're getting off track. Instead of introducing more new features, finish the ones that are set-in-stone so to speak, then and only then, experiment with various intricacies of the mechanics.
Sincerely yours,
<i>A Concerned Citizen</i>
If they could be honest, they'd admit what a horrible mistake it was not to use a more conventional engine like a UE3. That was the big error. I'm not well versed in liscensing fees, but there are people making good stuff on other engines, probably there was a more sensible alternative in the mid 2000s, if we could look back in hindsidght. Theyve got a really unwieldy proprietary engine that isnt worth the hassle anymore, because the results are looking dated.
On the coding side, they've got one dude more or less, as I've come to understand it. Not one coder, just one person capable of the Olympian challenge of dealing with this Frankenstein engine. I understand he brought it to them as well. I bet they want to build a time machine and look that gift horse right in the mouth...
Having mapped with this engine, I'm somewhat disappointed in what it's capable of. Don't get me wrong, as someone who can't model, I'm happy to even be mapping at all in this day and age. But Spark just doesn't flatter hard work. Some of my stuff I like it editor and in game just hate how it looks, and I don't think Source produced the same disgust with me for less investment. The lack of any AA just adds insult to injury. Could they go back and polish everything at the end of the process? Not really. Take a look at some of the indie work in something like: <a href="http://hardresetgame.com/" target="_blank">http://hardresetgame.com/</a> Sorta depressing.
Spark engine = why the devs face an uphill road.
Anyways, that's my post-mortem. The good news is they've somehow made it this far, maybe we'll get a sort of ugly but cool game in the end. Emphasis on maybe
UWE is toying around, but in a very constructive way. I didn't touch the beta a long time, because the first run was a disaster and it scared me away a while. But with NS2HD's commentary I forced me in again and now I enjoy it tremendously.
They know exactly what they do in the long run, even when it looks like too much experimenting. The release system may confuse and sometimes scare the "casual player" but it's this type of development that also attract many others.
Since NS I followed Charlie's progress, watched the rise of UWE and I have not a single doubt relating his management of things.
Then I disagree with some of the decisions, like introducing alien commander. I also feel that they should focus more on basics (moving, shooting) and let go convoluted mechanics like squad spawn.
Maybe we should go back to simple questions like "what is a good fps?" and "what is a good rts?".
This post reminded me of Black Mesa Source. No idea why.
(...)
Having mapped with this engine, I'm somewhat disappointed in what it's capable of. Don't get me wrong, as someone who can't model, I'm happy to even be mapping at all in this day and age. But Spark just doesn't flatter hard work. Some of my stuff I like it editor and in game just hate how it looks, and I don't think Source produced the same disgust with me for less investment. The lack of any AA just adds insult to injury. Could they go back and polish everything at the end of the process? Not really. Take a look at some of the indie work in something like: <a href="http://hardresetgame.com/" target="_blank">http://hardresetgame.com/</a> Sorta depressing.
Spark engine = why the devs face an uphill road.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it is cocky to say that it was a big mistake to make a own engine.
Don't get me wrong, but who are you that you can judge this decision or see all the consequences to it UWE has to face?
All the engines out there are programmed just for either an FPS or an RTS. I can understand that it is hard to find the right one for a hybrid game. With the decision uwe is able to match the engine exactly with their needs.
As you can see in the Job descriptions UWE is searching for a tools programmer, I guess for creating <i>tools</i> to improve the mapping and all the other modding stuff. And we all know that the engine is still in beta (as is the game). It needs to have a better performance and transparency isn't in yet. I am sure that they are working hard on it, but as you said, there is currently only one person, who can do that, so it will take some time. Just have patience. I agree with you that it is indeed an uphill road to create a modern engine from scratch, but I have faith in UWE.
BTW, I just looked into the demo of Warhammer 40k: space marine (a recend released game). Just compare this graphic (in high settings) with the spark engine you will see that NS2 looks way better even without AA. And I don't see what is supposed to be dispressing on "hard reset". I enjoyed the demo and I am going to buy the game as well.
Edit: I wonder what kind of games you like. What is your perfect example game?
I have to disagree, having followed the development of other games, I usually can follow their logic and most of the time the changes made make sense at the time. But in the particular case of NS2, it seems that a lot of attention is being focused on the details without having the rough draft completed. Just from the design perspective, it makes sense to get all the set-in-stone features into the game before you add and remove the smaller features, and fiddle with the mechanics of how everything works together.
This is a basic design philosphy that applies to almost any project, you don't build a house without the foundations, you don't colour a picture without having the guide-lines, you don't tweak a game without first having all the features in (and you definitely don't experiment with a lot of game-changing ideas right at the end of the development).
Don't get me wrong, but who are you that you can judge this decision or see all the consequences to it UWE has to face?
All the engines out there are programmed just for either an FPS or an RTS. I can understand that it is hard to find the right one for a hybrid game. With the decision uwe is able to match the engine exactly with their needs.
As you can see in the Job descriptions UWE is searching for a tools programmer, I guess for creating <i>tools</i> to improve the mapping and all the other modding stuff. And we all know that the engine is still in beta (as is the game). It needs to have a better performance and transparency isn't in yet. I am sure that they are working hard on it, but as you said, there is currently only one person, who can do that, so it will take some time. Just have patience. I agree with you that it is indeed an uphill road to create a modern engine from scratch, but I have faith in UWE.
BTW, I just looked into the demo of Warhammer 40k: space marine (a recend released game). Just compare this graphic (in high settings) with the spark engine you will see that NS2 looks way better even without AA. And I don't see what is supposed to be dispressing on "hard reset". I enjoyed the demo and I am going to buy the game as well.
Edit: I wonder what kind of games you like. What is your perfect example game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think what you're saying is that it's presumptuous of me to secong guess UWE's decision to use Spark for their engine. That may be so. Even then, I'm just discussing a choice they made, because I think enough time has passed that people can judge for themselves. What year is it, 2011? I hate to be a negative nancy, but I spend a lot of time with this engine and I can't say I'm impressed anymore. With Spark, The flaws seem to outweigh the good on an objective level. I went through the bad stuff, the good stuff is what you see and what makes you smile in-game.
What I meant about Hard Reset, which I probably won't be buying, is that it has a way higher level of graphical polish in a game that, let's be honest, probably hasn't been in dev for half as long as NS2. Sales will be high because it presents itself well. An engine was selected that was flexible enough to make a game and pretty enough to compete with AAA titles. What is important is that NS2 no longer competes graphically.......... against that _indie_ game. If we see release in 2012, forget about it. Ugly duckling status by then. By my standards, of course. Maybe by a lot of peoples' standards. It's my opinion. I'm speaking from a place where I still recognize UWE's commitment to making a real deep game, which is the biggest asset of all. But they get no help from Spark in that regard, nothing but trouble after trouble. I think we know that. I think it's not fair to them, but that's how it goes.
A perfect example of a game I like is TF2, prior to hats. Valve being the geniuses that they are found a very flattering visual style and ran with it. It's nice. It makes playing a good game that much better. I really appreciated that. The NS2 we've got is no looker, let's be frank, and I think the idea that an overhaul is feasible now or in the future is not likely because it would be indulgent in the face of all the essential stuff that still needs doing. Seems like Spark was a crucial mistake early on that's hamstrung the team in every way since. They can't acknowledge that because it would be like admitting defeat in a sense, but I think we can like and root for them and also think for ourselves about it.
Im guessing Spark has made NS2 significantly more difficult and prolonged to make to than it might have been otherwise on another engine. It doesn't make me a genius to see that, because it's all hindsight.
<!--quoteo(post=1873841:date=Sep 9 2011, 02:10 AM:name=fmpone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fmpone @ Sep 9 2011, 02:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1873841"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The lack of any AA just adds insult to injury. Could they go back and polish everything at the end of the process? Not really.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One of the benefits of not adding in an AA system back then was that now there are newer better implementations which have popped up to try. Plus when it comes to shaders like AA, they are not hard to just throw in later. Actually rather simple tasks and many of the algorithms are already well documented. And AA was actually a recent discussion topic so it hasn't been forgotten.
Max is generally the lone engine programmer, but as far as I understand he is not the only one who touches the engine code. But this does leave many LUA coders and means that much more LUA programming is being done in shorter amounts of time. This is why the team can afford to try different features and keep revising the game as the engine continues to shape up.
I prefer not to TLDR you all so I'll stop there but having seen what goes on every day, UWE has my confidence that they are not confused and running in circles. Really after a few soon to come engine fixes you will likely start seeing significantly more content falling into place towards feature-completeness :)
Oh, and if there is anything I think deserves priority it would be an occlusion fix followed by map rotation and hopefully custom map downloads (occlusion fix will allow more maps to play properly and then map rotation becomes needed :]).
Focus on optimizing the game, releasing stable maps, finishing the core mechanics (like onos, jp, hmg, exoskeleton, etc.) before you start trying out new ideas and concepts. The amount of players actively testing this beta continues to decline (taken from statistics on the most popular US servers) and unless the performance factor is greatly improved on a client and server side perspective, NS2 will eventually end up having very few active testers.
I also find it a bit uneasy that they are not sharing internal/external deadlines with their "investors". We have to rely on a (bugged) bug tracking system to get our updates on what the heck is going on.
Thats a lose lose for them. Especially if it says Mid 2012! They'll say soon and do their best. I think we can trust it won't be out for some time. At this point, I say let it bake. It needs the baking.
Kind of like how they said it was going to be released in Fall of 09? I would personally like a ball park of what quarter in what year. Just about every game has a ballpark release date by the time it's within the "beta" stage.
I personally think UWE should set up a a second play tester server and allow more of the community to help out. There are many of us who have <i>extensive</i> game experience and can easily make contributions to speed up game development especially concerning balance and direction.
I think the game is progressing, I am happy, but the game reached a point for me at patch 180, where it become "playable". The issue that's getting us all tweaked is that this model is in it's infancy, but many of us are catching glimpses of what the final product will be, and what we see is good (very good). We naturally want to get there as fast as possible, we stress because we want our game as soon as possible, and since it appears it won't be coming in the next few months, we stress. This is our fault if anything.
To everyone at UWE: the community supports you big time, so don't let our impatience get you down, let it motivate you. We only feel this way because NS2 is shaping up to be what we wanted, an amazing game, think about how many other games do not have a community acting this way, it's because the other games are not of this caliber.
I think for me the game is lost at the point where they start taking in even more community stuff. The way I can see NS2 delivering after all the wait is that it has a clear direction and that it realizes a decisive vision by a focused developer team.
The more people, ideals and designs involved in the game, the more diluted it becomes. If I'm OK with heavily diluted design I can go buy some mainstream game that spreads out thin to every direction to provide some bits for everyone but nothing groundbreaking for anyone.
They definately have the professional experience and expertise.. maybe they simply lack the project management skills? Maybe too much time has been spent in actual development rather than in design and requirement engineering? Maybe they really simply need more employees, but why does it take them so long to actually hire people (engine programmer position since half a year?)?
I've seen Charlies talk at GDC and while it was surely a nice talk, it wasnt really what I expected. I expected a talk about how a small team can actually deliver a game and stay in business. I guess this UWE still has to prove.
The steeper the hill the faster you will go down it after you reach the top.
I think making their own engine was a great idea. It gave them independence and it doesn't limit them on what they want to do.
I would like to see you create your own game that even compares to 10% of UWE's game. They have been taking a lot of criticism about creating their own engine and personally I think it is a good idea.
NS2 is set up into tiers. So you would achieve the same thing if you introduced all the features and then you fixed the balance issues, as you would if you fixed the balance issues and then introduced all the features. You wouldn't get Tier 1 vs Tier 3 you would get Tier 1 vs Tier 1 and that is the way it will always be you can fix the Tier 1 gameplay and then introduce all the features but that wouldn't affect the Tier 1 gameplay because of the order that they have been releasing all the features.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Why say that designing their own engine is a bad idea when they have already made their own engine?
What would be the point of your statement?
Do you propose that they restart everything they have done or something?
Are you stupid?
<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
The more people, ideals and designs involved in the game, the more diluted it becomes. If I'm OK with heavily diluted design I can go buy some mainstream game that spreads out thin to every direction to provide some bits for everyone but nothing groundbreaking for anyone.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In your opinion and beliefs yes, that is all true.
I think making their own engine was a great idea. It gave them independence and it doesn't limit them on what they want to do.
I would like to see you create your own game that even compares to 10% of UWE's game. They have been taking a lot of criticism about creating their own engine and personally I think it is a good idea.
NS2 is set up into tiers. So you would achieve the same thing if you introduced all the features and then you fixed the balance issues, as you would if you fixed the balance issues and then introduced all the features. You wouldn't get Tier 1 vs Tier 3 you would get Tier 1 vs Tier 1 and that is the way it will always be you can fix the Tier 1 gameplay and then introduce all the features but that wouldn't affect the Tier 1 gameplay because of the order that they have been releasing all the features.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Why say that designing their own engine is a bad idea when they have already made their own engine?
What would be the point of your statement?
Do you propose that they restart everything they have done or something?
Are you stupid?
<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You seem hostile to the very idea that the devs might have made a miscalculation. I just made an observation that you can evaluate for yourself. The point of my statement is to bring attention to what I see as the real reason "the devs face an uphill road". I don't propose anything, nobody should be telling the devs how to do their thing. But they've made choices in the past, we can have an opinion on them.
Spark has pros and cons. The pros, I argue, have not been worth the cons. Yes, they have full control over the engine, but it turns out its not such a fantastic engine. Its pretty unwieldy and not too impressive by modern standards. Sort of a bust. If the game gets released, I'm sure it will be fine. No one will second guess things too much.
Were all pulling for the devs. We all want them to succeed. It'll be an even bigger success if they can polish a very dinky Spark engine into something great.
I just hope they add technical progress back on the progress page, I haven't seen it in long while.
In an industry setting, there would be upwards of 100-200 employees working on the game instead of a small team of 6. I don't think i need to explain why this comparison is unfair.
True, but the counter-argument would naturally be: If you have a team of 6 people, who in their right mind would develop your own engine. That exhausts the majority of your talent on "not making the game"...
Charlie knows I've never been a fan of the idea of building their own engine. I've always believed that his and Max's massive talent could be better served making an awesome game rather than an awesome engine. I suspect it comes down to simple economics. They couldn't afford an Unreal 3 or Source license so need-must, they started building their own. Max is pretty much one of the smartest people on the planet and so if he can't develop a decent engine, then noone can. It's just unfortunate, with such a small team, to have to expend so much effort on the "plumbing".
The glacial pace of development (we're fast closing on a year in closed beta... after 4 years of development...), coupled by the fact that NS2 doesn't feel much different to me to NS1 (the gameplay hasn't really evolved as a consequence of this super duper engine) tends to support that conclusion.
But, and it's a big but... I say that from the perspective of someone who has only ever been involved in games development as a hobby, and that a long time ago (on NS1 in fact)... I have no idea what thinking, constraints, drivers and motivation lead these guys to the decisions that they have and continue to take.
I have, however, experienced the excellence they can achieve. My first ever NS1 experience is something which sticks with me today as the best gaming experience of my life. I still relate the story of it. No game, no matter how many millions of dollars have be lavished on it or how many hundreds of thousands of man hours were slaved over them have come anywhere near the sphincter clenching fear I felt as a rookie TSA marine navigating some darkened hallway to the constant <click-click-click> of Skulk feet (unseen) all around me...
Therefore I have every confidence in the team producing a superb game... the question for me is: When?
Call me selfish, but I want it now! :)
joev (yep, that one - I'm like a bad penny... soiled)
<!--quoteo(post=1873839:date=Sep 9 2011, 07:47 AM:name=Zuriki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zuriki @ Sep 9 2011, 07:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1873839"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If this game was being developed like it is now in an industry setting, the project would be closed down and deemed a failure<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Having worked at several other non indie game companies, it's not much better. It is actually pretty rare to have one solidified design direction that goes smoothly from point A to point B. There's a lot of trial and error, there's a lot of problems that come up and systems reworked and it often appears to the people on the inside that the game is going nowhere. Then, often in the last few months things sort of magically drop into place, the game being worked on comes together and gets the final bit of polish and it then its done. There are many successful games that if they'd been opened up for public scrutiny during the process would have been "deemed a failure". Its the nature of game development. Its messy, and often seems on the verge of falling apart, and no one can really know what it is like until they've worked at a game company themselves.
It is easy for everyone on the outside to sit and judge what we should and should not be working on, without knowing any of the dependencies. It is probably our fault for not giving you guys more information, but it just isn't practical to spend our time communicating every aspect of development.
So, for example, we have been working on the jetpack. However, the new prototype lab structure that you get the jetpack from is in the process of being modeled, so we will probably wait until that is done before releasing the jetpack publicly. The Onos will be worked on soon, however we've been waiting for the new animation system that is being worked on to be finished, so that we don't have to do the work of setting up all the animations for the Onos, only to have to redo it all again when the new system is fully in place. The new squad stuff may seem like it's a feature that just came out of nowhere, but NS2 was always planned to have squads, and there's been a lot of thinking about how to try and make them more worthwhile to have in the game. The work to implement them based on the design doc is actually fairly minimal compared to a lot of other things, so its something that we want to try out sooner rather then later while we are working on everything else.
It's a very different model to have a game that is under development released to the public. Everyone wants to have fun playing it, and want to have a finished game. So, people want to have the Onos and Jetpacks in, but they also want the bugs fixed, and all the core game mechanics worked out and polished, and they want custom map downloading, and they performance to be great and they want...
So, we balance out time between adding new features, fixing bugs and working on performance, and we are working as fast as we can.
<!--quoteo(post=1873841:date=Sep 9 2011, 08:10 AM:name=fmpone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fmpone @ Sep 9 2011, 08:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1873841"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Theyve got a really unwieldy proprietary engine that isnt worth the hassle anymore, because the results are looking dated.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The long term gain of having our own engine, is worth the short term pain, and we've gone over many of the reasons why numerous times. As far as it looking dated, I disagree. I'm playing Deus Ex: Human Revolution now, and talk about a game looking dated. I mean, don't get me wrong, it still looks pretty decent, but our models/textures and graphics engine can easily hold its own with them, and we are going to still be adding a lot of graphical bells and whistles. Stuff like AA is planned, and in fact Max was just saying that recent advancements will make it even cheaper to add that to the game when we do put it in. Color grading is planned, the atmospheric lighting just needs an optimization pass and that will go in (if you could see some of the internal shots we've taken with atmospheric lighting turned on, it automatically makes the game look 10 times better), more particle effects, etc. All of our models and textures have been created at a resolution that matches any FPS game out there, and that's the stuff that would be hard to redo. As far as all the other fancy features, like DOF, AA, etc. that can always just be dropped in. Having our own engine isn't limiting us from being able to keep up and compete on the visual side with the games that will be coming out. We haven't been spending our time with that stuff, because for the most part it can all be added near the end, and just make the game look better, so we are focusing on making the game fun and playable first
<!--quoteo(post=1873902:date=Sep 9 2011, 03:21 PM:name=w0dk4)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (w0dk4 @ Sep 9 2011, 03:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1873902"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe they really simply need more employees, but why does it take them so long to actually hire people (engine programmer position since half a year?)?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Finding an EXPERIENCED engine programmer is very very difficult. Since the height of the recession, the game industry has stabilized, and there are no longer as many companies going out of business and layoffsf, and all the large companies are hiring a lot. Unfortunately we do not have a known and established name in the industry, and it is hard to be as competitive on the pay and benefits side as most of the larger companies. So, while there may be some great engine programmers out there looking for work, they are applying to Valve and Blizzard and EA, because many of them have never heard of UW or NS. We have some leads that we are hoping will work out, but hiring the right people is never a quick and easy thing to do.
--Cory
It might be worth listening to your community rather than antagonising them?