We'll be sure to remove that <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm all in favour of non breakable lights in the MS, i don't think it adds anything to it at all and mendasp gave two nice reasons for it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for the CC, rest assured we'll come up with something which will be satisfactory though what it is right now god knows.
Reduce the damn entities in it. Relic made about 10 func_walls for each structure when 1 would have done.
Revolving door looks nice, unfortunately it makes one route very difficult to use hence why bast games always seem to be the same boring tactics. It needs removing from marine start but could be put somewhere else.
<!--QuoteBegin--CheesyPeteza+Jan 17 2004, 05:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CheesyPeteza @ Jan 17 2004, 05:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Reduce the damn entities in it. Relic made about 10 func_walls for each structure when 1 would have done.
Revolving door looks nice, unfortunately it makes one route very difficult to use hence why bast games always seem to be the same boring tactics. It needs removing from marine start but could be put somewhere else. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> They are remaking bast to be as close to the origional as posible. Then they are tweeking certain areas for gameplay/balance reasons. I don't think they are planning on rearranging the map. While the revolving door can be annoying, I think it was a neat gimmic in the map. Sure it made it hard to get out of the ms sometimes but there was also that feeling that you never quite knew what was on the other side of the airlock. My vote is keep it in <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->. I'm also not quite sure where you are talking about 10 func_walls where one would suffice. Relic is a pretty darn good mapper, I'm sure he would use the tool that's right for the location. He did update it after all for 2.0 so there was some entity optimization.
Nice work guys. I'm glad to see you're doing this. Bast is one of my all time favorite maps (if not my all-time favorite), and I want to keep playing it. I hope Relic gives you his best wishes on this (even though he hasn't responded to any of my e-mails either).
Also glad to hear you're not modifying it until the construction is complete, that's really the most sane approach. Also keep in mind that that the new entity limit is 275 (type "numents" to see the count).
Btw, I wrote you back Mendasp but your ISP is blacklisting me.
<!--QuoteBegin--Mr.Ben+Jan 17 2004, 06:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mr.Ben @ Jan 17 2004, 06:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's 275? Excellent! I thought it was 200. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I believe the recommended was 200 and limit was 300, now I guess it's limit 275, recommended still 200? Anyway, good to hear directly from you on the matter Flayra, Bast is definetly one of my favorites as well. God speed Mendasp's team!
Oh, one more thing, <b>Mendasp</b> if memory serves me correctly (and sometimes it doesn't <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ) then there is a texture in Bast's MS that generates a gravel footstep noise when you walk on it when it is clearly not gravel of any sort. Just a small bug that you can look into, I think it's somewhere near the elevator, not sure exactly.
ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
That MS seems a lil bright too me.. you can now see imperfections in the walls and its making the room look blockier to me. Just town down the brightness. Thats what I loved of bast, it was dark everywhere...
<!--QuoteBegin--Mendasp+Jan 17 2004, 07:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Jan 17 2004, 07:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Bright? ugh, I've actually compared both and mine is way darker... also, the MS has to make marines feel "safe".
That problem with the texture near the elevator is a problem with materials.txt... That should (obviously) be changed. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you have higher gamma or something... it seems a bit off... somewhere. Light patches are way bright and dark areas are way dark. Try to level out the lighting, there's a bit too much contrast.
<!--QuoteBegin--DarkATi+Jan 17 2004, 07:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkATi @ Jan 17 2004, 07:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Mendasp+Jan 17 2004, 07:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mendasp @ Jan 17 2004, 07:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Bright? ugh, I've actually compared both and mine is way darker... also, the MS has to make marines feel "safe".
That problem with the texture near the elevator is a problem with materials.txt... That should (obviously) be changed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you have higher gamma or something... it seems a bit off... somewhere. Light patches are way bright and dark areas are way dark. Try to level out the lighting, there's a bit too much contrast.
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Perhaps that's for the best? I think it looks brilliant, good look realising the remake guys.
Same URL, so the other pics will be the same as these ones, just they got updated (CTRL+F5 if you still see the old ones, these should have red lights on the pad):
Looks great. Just be sure to modify it a bit once you're done remaking it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
Sry to say it, but it looks really off to me... Maybe it is the contrast, gamma, whateva.. This community has gotten into the swing of high gamma/contrast maps which is not what the original maps were. Yeah they look nice, but kills the ambience.
Well i think its all well and good to fix onos movement trouble spots and fixing weld bugs, but adding new lights? this is kind of crossing the line IMO dont you think?
Look fix what NEEDS to be fixed but dont start adding things because you think it looks cool....
looking good paper clip! as always feel free to use the server to host the map too(the bsp file), and you can let the other people doing the project to use it as well.
Whatever happens, do not change the door in Main Aft that allows you to access Engine Hive. To much fun squashing Onos's under it. Best thing about the map.
<!--QuoteBegin--KungFuDiscoMonkey+Jan 17 2004, 11:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Jan 17 2004, 11:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--CheesyPeteza+Jan 17 2004, 05:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CheesyPeteza @ Jan 17 2004, 05:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Reduce the damn entities in it. Relic made about 10 func_walls for each structure when 1 would have done.
Revolving door looks nice, unfortunately it makes one route very difficult to use hence why bast games always seem to be the same boring tactics. It needs removing from marine start but could be put somewhere else. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> They are remaking bast to be as close to the origional as posible. Then they are tweeking certain areas for gameplay/balance reasons. I don't think they are planning on rearranging the map. While the revolving door can be annoying, I think it was a neat gimmic in the map. Sure it made it hard to get out of the ms sometimes but there was also that feeling that you never quite knew what was on the other side of the airlock. My vote is keep it in <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->. I'm also not quite sure where you are talking about 10 func_walls where one would suffice. Relic is a pretty darn good mapper, I'm sure he would use the tool that's right for the location. He did update it after all for 2.0 so there was some entity optimization.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 10:1 was exaggerating, but take engine room for example. There is two pipes coming down from the back of it on the roof past the resource nozzle and into the vis blocking wall. I think they are 3 separate func_seethroughs for all that with the same values. Just select the whole pipe structure and make it into 1 func_seethrough.
Another one is the pipework between feedwater and atmospheric processing. Far more func_walls than needed.
There is stuff like that all over the map.
I understand they will be making a 100% copy of the map first, its the sensible way to do it. But personally although I like the look of the map and the layout, I do not like the way it plays and I only look forward to a version 2 of it.
I can't see how it can be improved without removing the revolving door or adding another way to get out from marine start to that side of the map. I think its the main problem, as it makes it very difficult to use one side of the map. I understand he probably left it in because it took days of work and he's proud of it, as he should be. But unfortunately it just doesn't work, thats why I suggest it should be moved to somewhere else in the map as it is a cool door and it would be a shame to just delete it.
Bast is, without a doubt, my all time favorite map for atmosphere. It just feels absolutely sci-fi, instead of like you're inside of a warehouse, like a few other maps feel like. My only dislike for bast is the big imbalances in the map which, now that there's a remake team, can be addressed.
ns_bast was the only map that could even be considered to be close to what an ns_nostromo would look like. Bast had lots of stuff ripped from the Nostromo (Ship from the movie "Alien"). Textures, architechture, even the cockpit from the nostromo was placed oddly enough in the middle of ns_bast halfway between marine start and refinery hive.
And since nobody is making an ns_nostromo, Bast is all we have. Long live Bast!
I really don't see the revolving door to be a problem myself. Three points to think about:
1) It slows down marines who would otherwise have EASY access to engine room hive. 2) That room on the other side of that door also gives access to the whole map. Defending refinery as alien can be hard enough, but if marines have easy access to it from either entrance it'll be a pain too. Taking and locking down that room is a strat that ensures success for the marines, I've seen it all to often. You take that door out... 'rines will take it every time instead of rarely as is. 3) Locking down that room means aliens have one vent into engine and one single route to refinery. It's a major strategic position. (Although pub comms always relocate to atmos instead... which is just silly IMO... that place is a deathtrap. Ahh the lure of money I suppose...)
Take it as you will, but that's my two (three?) cents anyway.
Anyhoo... this community continues to amaze me. First nancy... and now bast. I'm very amazed you guys are already taking the initiative to do this (instead of waiting for it to get close to the chopping block.) And looking good already, I might add. That's just cool. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The 3.0f changelog (just posted in General Discussion) says that bast has been removed, so this remake has become a necessity. I just want to say thanks to the people working on the map.
I agree with why the bast rotating door is there but it is rather glitchy. Obviously we'll try and make the ride abit smoother (was it me or did it get worse in 2.0?) but i think there are things we can replace it with that can have the same effect.
We're not doing BIG BIG lighting changes, they are very subtle (whoa! two red lights, what a big change!). We don't want to break bast.
We are focusing on finishing a 1:1 copy of bast and then start fixing things, because people complained about balance issues and all that, that's the main goal, not redoing the whole lighting.
Comments
I'm all in favour of non breakable lights in the MS, i don't think it adds anything to it at all and mendasp gave two nice reasons for it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for the CC, rest assured we'll come up with something which will be satisfactory though what it is right now god knows.
Revolving door looks nice, unfortunately it makes one route very difficult to use hence why bast games always seem to be the same boring tactics. It needs removing from marine start but could be put somewhere else.
Revolving door looks nice, unfortunately it makes one route very difficult to use hence why bast games always seem to be the same boring tactics. It needs removing from marine start but could be put somewhere else. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
They are remaking bast to be as close to the origional as posible. Then they are tweeking certain areas for gameplay/balance reasons. I don't think they are planning on rearranging the map. While the revolving door can be annoying, I think it was a neat gimmic in the map. Sure it made it hard to get out of the ms sometimes but there was also that feeling that you never quite knew what was on the other side of the airlock. My vote is keep it in <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->. I'm also not quite sure where you are talking about 10 func_walls where one would suffice. Relic is a pretty darn good mapper, I'm sure he would use the tool that's right for the location. He did update it after all for 2.0 so there was some entity optimization.
Anyways, here's the actual MS:
Images removed! Look down this page to see the pics.
Also glad to hear you're not modifying it until the construction is complete, that's really the most sane approach. Also keep in mind that that the new entity limit is 275 (type "numents" to see the count).
Btw, I wrote you back Mendasp but your ISP is blacklisting me.
I believe the recommended was 200 and limit was 300, now I guess it's limit 275, recommended still 200? Anyway, good to hear directly from you on the matter Flayra, Bast is definetly one of my favorites as well. God speed Mendasp's team!
Oh, one more thing, <b>Mendasp</b> if memory serves me correctly (and sometimes it doesn't <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ) then there is a texture in Bast's MS that generates a gravel footstep noise when you walk on it when it is clearly not gravel of any sort. Just a small bug that you can look into, I think it's somewhere near the elevator, not sure exactly.
~ DarkATi
That problem with the texture near the elevator is a problem with materials.txt... That should (obviously) be changed.
That problem with the texture near the elevator is a problem with materials.txt... That should (obviously) be changed. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you have higher gamma or something... it seems a bit off... somewhere. Light patches are way bright and dark areas are way dark. Try to level out the lighting, there's a bit too much contrast.
~ DarkATi
That problem with the texture near the elevator is a problem with materials.txt... That should (obviously) be changed. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you have higher gamma or something... it seems a bit off... somewhere. Light patches are way bright and dark areas are way dark. Try to level out the lighting, there's a bit too much contrast.
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps that's for the best? I think it looks brilliant, good look realising the remake guys.
Same URL, so the other pics will be the same as these ones, just they got updated (CTRL+F5 if you still see the old ones, these should have red lights on the pad):
<img src='http://www.pericenrash.com/mendasp/mapas/bast_remake/ns_bast1.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
<img src='http://www.pericenrash.com/mendasp/mapas/bast_remake/ns_bast2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
Looks great so far, hope it makes it in time for 3.0! (I can hope, can't I?)
Look fix what NEEDS to be fixed but dont start adding things because you think it looks cool....
anyways GL.
Revolving door looks nice, unfortunately it makes one route very difficult to use hence why bast games always seem to be the same boring tactics. It needs removing from marine start but could be put somewhere else. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They are remaking bast to be as close to the origional as posible. Then they are tweeking certain areas for gameplay/balance reasons. I don't think they are planning on rearranging the map. While the revolving door can be annoying, I think it was a neat gimmic in the map. Sure it made it hard to get out of the ms sometimes but there was also that feeling that you never quite knew what was on the other side of the airlock. My vote is keep it in <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->. I'm also not quite sure where you are talking about 10 func_walls where one would suffice. Relic is a pretty darn good mapper, I'm sure he would use the tool that's right for the location. He did update it after all for 2.0 so there was some entity optimization.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
10:1 was exaggerating, but take engine room for example. There is two pipes coming down from the back of it on the roof past the resource nozzle and into the vis blocking wall. I think they are 3 separate func_seethroughs for all that with the same values. Just select the whole pipe structure and make it into 1 func_seethrough.
Another one is the pipework between feedwater and atmospheric processing. Far more func_walls than needed.
There is stuff like that all over the map.
I understand they will be making a 100% copy of the map first, its the sensible way to do it. But personally although I like the look of the map and the layout, I do not like the way it plays and I only look forward to a version 2 of it.
I can't see how it can be improved without removing the revolving door or adding another way to get out from marine start to that side of the map. I think its the main problem, as it makes it very difficult to use one side of the map. I understand he probably left it in because it took days of work and he's proud of it, as he should be. But unfortunately it just doesn't work, thats why I suggest it should be moved to somewhere else in the map as it is a cool door and it would be a shame to just delete it.
Good luck.
And since nobody is making an ns_nostromo, Bast is all we have. Long live Bast!
1) It slows down marines who would otherwise have EASY access to engine room hive.
2) That room on the other side of that door also gives access to the whole map. Defending refinery as alien can be hard enough, but if marines have easy access to it from either entrance it'll be a pain too. Taking and locking down that room is a strat that ensures success for the marines, I've seen it all to often. You take that door out... 'rines will take it every time instead of rarely as is.
3) Locking down that room means aliens have one vent into engine and one single route to refinery. It's a major strategic position. (Although pub comms always relocate to atmos instead... which is just silly IMO... that place is a deathtrap. Ahh the lure of money I suppose...)
Take it as you will, but that's my two (three?) cents anyway.
Anyhoo... this community continues to amaze me. First nancy... and now bast. I'm very amazed you guys are already taking the initiative to do this (instead of waiting for it to get close to the chopping block.) And looking good already, I might add. That's just cool. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
We're not doing BIG BIG lighting changes, they are very subtle (whoa! two red lights, what a big change!). We don't want to break bast.
We are focusing on finishing a 1:1 copy of bast and then start fixing things, because people complained about balance issues and all that, that's the main goal, not redoing the whole lighting.