Bast Remake Project
Mendasp
I touch maps in inappropriate placesValencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
I touch maps in inappropriate placesValencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
Welcome to the Bast Remake thread! Hope you like what we are doing!
<!--QuoteBegin-Frequently Asked Questions - Bast Remake Project+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frequently Asked Questions - Bast Remake Project)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b><span style='color:red'>Why don't you get the original from the author?</span></b>
The original .RMF file was lost after a hard-drive failure. This file is needed in order to make changes and compile the map.
<b><span style='color:red'>But I still have the .bsp right here! Can't you guys use that?</span></b>
Of course not, that is not the source map, the process of compiling a map kinda destroys any possibilities of getting it back like the original, since the compiler culls the faces that are outside, and cuts faces, calculates lighting, etc.
We can't use the .bsp to modify it. Plain and simple, a complete remake is needed in order to be able to update the map.
<b><span style='color:red'>Hey, I've got a decompile! / Can I help in any way? / I'm a leet mapper, can I join?</span></b>
We also got a decompile, and works, we don't need another one.
We don't need any help right now, the only way you can help right now is giving us suggestions posting in this thread. Our main focus right now is to get the closest copy of bast and then, with that, doing the appropiate changes, some of them are done while we remake the map, due to their simplicity.
Also, if you're thinking in helping with your mapping skills, we are sorry, but the team is full.
The members of the team are:
Mendasp (Leader)
MrBen
quazilin
Drunken Monkey
Insane
Marcos
The original author was Relic25.
The assignments are:
Mendasp: Marine Spawn (including the revolving door), ReadyRoom, corridor between MS and Atmos / Furnace and the vent, corridor between main aft and engine and its vents, Tram tunnel and its surrounding corridors (including the main aft elevator), N corridor and the vents that lead to atmos and MS elevator - <span style='color:yellow'>Finished!</span>
MrBen: New infestation - <span style='color:yellow'>Finished!</span>
quazilin: Refinery, Furnace, Feedwater, Bridge observation - <span style='color:yellow'>Finished!</span>
Zazi: Water corridor outside of ref - <span style='color:yellow'>Given to quazilin</span>
Drunken Monkey: Engine and Main Aft - <span style='color:yellow'>Finished!</span>
Insane: EM Drill shaft - <span style='color:yellow'>Finished!</span>
bLuEMaN: Tram tunnel - <span style='color:yellow'>Given to Mendasp</span>
Marcos: Atmospheric processing - <span style='color:yellow'>Finished!</span>
<b><span style='color:red'>What does Relic think about this?</span></b>
We emailed him, and got a reply. We have his support <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> He likes what we have already done, but due to having no time, he can't help us too much right now.
<b><span style='color:red'>Are you giving the remake source to Relic? / Is he going to help you?</span></b>
Sadly, Relic doesn't have time for NS or mapping anymore, so he had to leave the community. He can't help us too much, and he can't continue the maintenance of Bast.
<b><span style='color:red'>Will you make balance changes to the map?</span></b>
Yes. Bast needs some serious balance changes, we would be happy to hear what the pub players and clanners think bast needs to be more fun on both playing styles. We will take <b>ALL</b> the suggestions into account.
<b><span style='color:red'>Are you making aesthetic changes on the map?</span></b>
The main focus right now is in getting the whole architecture redone. We are doing subtle changes to the lighting, but we don't want to break the excellent ambience Bast has always had. So no big changes for now if they are not needed.
The changes in the lighting are for two reasons:
1.- It's almost impossible to get the lighting exactly as the original (because the only lighting recovered is the point-lighting, and tweaking a .rad file until you get the exact values can be very very hard and time consuming, considering how long the compile times take)
2.- It helps to make the map look more <i>fresh</i>, we don't want to take over the map or something, we like bast as much as most people do!
<b><span style='color:red'>Why was the map removed?</span></b>
The source was lost and the entity limit is right now 275. The current Bast has 500+ entities.
The entities are handled server-side, so basically, and without technicisms: It lagged a bit some not-so-powerful servers.
Because of this, some things will be gone, like, for example the breakable lights in the MS (4 entities less...). But don't worry, we'll try to optimize it without having to take out cool features in the map.
<b><span style='color:red'>You guys are very fast!, do you think you'll be on time to get it in 3.0?</span></b>
Yes, it's going to be included in NS 3.0 beta 4, we will keep improving the map with the feedback the players give us, or our own ideas (but it's more important to have everyone happy first)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll leave the first pic I posted here so you can compare with the next ones. It's the first version of the MS.
<!--QuoteBegin-Frequently Asked Questions - Bast Remake Project+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frequently Asked Questions - Bast Remake Project)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b><span style='color:red'>Why don't you get the original from the author?</span></b>
The original .RMF file was lost after a hard-drive failure. This file is needed in order to make changes and compile the map.
<b><span style='color:red'>But I still have the .bsp right here! Can't you guys use that?</span></b>
Of course not, that is not the source map, the process of compiling a map kinda destroys any possibilities of getting it back like the original, since the compiler culls the faces that are outside, and cuts faces, calculates lighting, etc.
We can't use the .bsp to modify it. Plain and simple, a complete remake is needed in order to be able to update the map.
<b><span style='color:red'>Hey, I've got a decompile! / Can I help in any way? / I'm a leet mapper, can I join?</span></b>
We also got a decompile, and works, we don't need another one.
We don't need any help right now, the only way you can help right now is giving us suggestions posting in this thread. Our main focus right now is to get the closest copy of bast and then, with that, doing the appropiate changes, some of them are done while we remake the map, due to their simplicity.
Also, if you're thinking in helping with your mapping skills, we are sorry, but the team is full.
The members of the team are:
Mendasp (Leader)
MrBen
quazilin
Drunken Monkey
Insane
Marcos
The original author was Relic25.
The assignments are:
Mendasp: Marine Spawn (including the revolving door), ReadyRoom, corridor between MS and Atmos / Furnace and the vent, corridor between main aft and engine and its vents, Tram tunnel and its surrounding corridors (including the main aft elevator), N corridor and the vents that lead to atmos and MS elevator - <span style='color:yellow'>Finished!</span>
MrBen: New infestation - <span style='color:yellow'>Finished!</span>
quazilin: Refinery, Furnace, Feedwater, Bridge observation - <span style='color:yellow'>Finished!</span>
Zazi: Water corridor outside of ref - <span style='color:yellow'>Given to quazilin</span>
Drunken Monkey: Engine and Main Aft - <span style='color:yellow'>Finished!</span>
Insane: EM Drill shaft - <span style='color:yellow'>Finished!</span>
bLuEMaN: Tram tunnel - <span style='color:yellow'>Given to Mendasp</span>
Marcos: Atmospheric processing - <span style='color:yellow'>Finished!</span>
<b><span style='color:red'>What does Relic think about this?</span></b>
We emailed him, and got a reply. We have his support <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> He likes what we have already done, but due to having no time, he can't help us too much right now.
<b><span style='color:red'>Are you giving the remake source to Relic? / Is he going to help you?</span></b>
Sadly, Relic doesn't have time for NS or mapping anymore, so he had to leave the community. He can't help us too much, and he can't continue the maintenance of Bast.
<b><span style='color:red'>Will you make balance changes to the map?</span></b>
Yes. Bast needs some serious balance changes, we would be happy to hear what the pub players and clanners think bast needs to be more fun on both playing styles. We will take <b>ALL</b> the suggestions into account.
<b><span style='color:red'>Are you making aesthetic changes on the map?</span></b>
The main focus right now is in getting the whole architecture redone. We are doing subtle changes to the lighting, but we don't want to break the excellent ambience Bast has always had. So no big changes for now if they are not needed.
The changes in the lighting are for two reasons:
1.- It's almost impossible to get the lighting exactly as the original (because the only lighting recovered is the point-lighting, and tweaking a .rad file until you get the exact values can be very very hard and time consuming, considering how long the compile times take)
2.- It helps to make the map look more <i>fresh</i>, we don't want to take over the map or something, we like bast as much as most people do!
<b><span style='color:red'>Why was the map removed?</span></b>
The source was lost and the entity limit is right now 275. The current Bast has 500+ entities.
The entities are handled server-side, so basically, and without technicisms: It lagged a bit some not-so-powerful servers.
Because of this, some things will be gone, like, for example the breakable lights in the MS (4 entities less...). But don't worry, we'll try to optimize it without having to take out cool features in the map.
<b><span style='color:red'>You guys are very fast!, do you think you'll be on time to get it in 3.0?</span></b>
Yes, it's going to be included in NS 3.0 beta 4, we will keep improving the map with the feedback the players give us, or our own ideas (but it's more important to have everyone happy first)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll leave the first pic I posted here so you can compare with the next ones. It's the first version of the MS.
Comments
This is the second Bast remake thread I've seen, but, hey what the hell!
Are we allowed to offer suggestions?
on IRC in #nspt we were just talking about being able to drain the water out the tunnel between Refinery and Feedwater for a nice tactical siege location <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
It isn't as hard as having to figure everything from screenshots, but it isn't as easy, either.
yay
Additionally, most people's complaints about bast revolve around the fact that bast's marine start is the absolute worst tactical place for a marine start to be. Will you be considering fixing that problem any? Or will you faithfully recreate bast and then go back and fix it afterwards?
Considering any modifications to refinery? I have some ideas... one of those cyllindrical vats could be hollowed out and the hive could be placed inside... this would also allow for some more infestation (which refinery always lacked).
Thought about upping any of the visuals at all? Heard mention of the possibility of adding waterfalls comming out of the broken pipes in feedwater, for example...
But right now, it's just recreating it, then comes the fixing and testing. We would get crazy if we started making changes while we recreate it...
The things that changed were:
-The weldable in MS
--It used to be outside, so it actually took effort, and once it was closed it was closed
-The ladders in MS
--They used to be facing different, this change was probably for the best
-The doors in the vents from MS that lead to engine or feed
--Used to be two seperate weldables
I Think that the original weldable is the only thing that needs to go back in (or the current one needs to be reworked so the gap isn't there and it can't be broken).
Anyways, was just curious what the bast teams position is on this <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I didn't think that was possible as it's an incredible and awesome map.
Good luck guys! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I agree replacing the elevator with a ramp, BUT i think it would look weird to have the cockpit buttons on one side with the ramp in the middle, and the CC aggainst the wall
But thats just my opinion.
And i hope that welding spot gets fixed <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
A slight suggestion about that vent, there is a 'dead end' vent in engine, on the left hand side, put a vent from there to the wall which is furthest away from the CC, make it weldable too.
Anyways, we're going to do some lighting changes to make the map look more "fresh". You know, all the maps got revamped for 2.0... bast needs something new. We'll be sure to not break the ambience. We'll also be posting pics to let you guys give your oppinions ^^. The general lighting will be the same, just slight changes.
Edit: Decompile decompiles entities too <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Just a suggestion though. Bast is one of my favorite maps. Good luck with the remake. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Just a suggestion though. Bast is one of my favorite maps. Good luck with the remake. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I actually like this one, just because I've been playing with the lights in MS and I was going crazy because it was very dark with them off.
And makes sense, since:
a) We save some entities
b) Makes the MS more marine-friendly and avoids it looking ultra-dark.
If noone has a problem with that... I'll just make them not-breakable.
Bast veterans know about the benefits of CC Mines... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> I think a ladder is a great idea, the elevator wasn't all that great.
~ DarkATi
OMG,a bast remake yay hehe go "Viva La Bast" lmao
Oh please for the love of god stick and keep "N Corridor" in the map hehe ONE of my favorite relocation spots and to just hideout when Oni and fades are attacking main base.
You may or may not believe this but the huge pit in the one part of the map I forget the roomname is also one of my favorite places to hide.There is a light "under" the walkway you can get to with a jetpack and land on the light and hide if you do it right.
One of the things I have been doing is trying to "master" getting onto that little light in the big pit under the walkway/catwalk.
"I do HAVE a bast where the CC is on the platform that comes out of the ceiling,and also the "revolving door" you have to weld it and it disappears.I think someone used ripent on it to do the relocation of the CC.