FlaterectomyNetherlandistanJoin Date: 2005-02-03Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
Yeah, pretty much. It can make lane blocking a little more complicated. In the image below, I'd say the magenta routes from Lower Passage to Slice aren't really an issue (I merely added it to illustrate two almost same length routes between the two rooms), and others might be fine with you, but my personal preference is to reduce these lanes.
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
edited October 2013
Thanks for that pic. I've dealt with the Lower Passage, Vista -> Server and Approach -> Storage routes. Not entirely sure what to do with the other two. I don't want to turn Upper Passage into a massive choke point and the trick with Server -> Approach will be to do something without making Fortress even more difficult for aliens to assault & defend (it's already rather difficult to break a siege on Fortress from Slice).
GhoulofGSG9Join Date: 2013-03-31Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts
edited January 2014
Added it to my server as i like the overall structure.
Great work so far but i think the map will need some more polish work. Like some corners are a bit to dark and some texture crossovers look a bit odd.
Added it to my server as i like the overall structure.
Great work so far but i think the map will need some more polish work. Like some corners are a bit to dark and some texture crossovers look a bit odd.
Awesome that its running on your server
Could you provide some screenshots or location names of the places that you think need some more work?
I don't know... While this map has really, really, really, really awesome geometry, it's still so ... empty. Alien Start is too narrow and the textures are a bit monotone.
Don't get me wrong; it's not like I don't appreciate your work. I just wouldn't call it "finished"
I don't know... While this map has really, really, really, really awesome geometry, it's still so ... empty. Alien Start is too narrow and the textures are a bit monotone.
Don't get me wrong; it's not like I don't appreciate your work. I just wouldn't call it "finished"
I agree, the geometry looks wonderful but the map itself seems very empty and lifeless. Maybe add a few pieces of detail here and there to spruce things up a bit?
I don't know... While this map has really, really, really, really awesome geometry, it's still so ... empty. Alien Start is too narrow and the textures are a bit monotone.
Don't get me wrong; it's not like I don't appreciate your work. I just wouldn't call it "finished"
I agree, the geometry looks wonderful but the map itself seems very empty and lifeless. Maybe add a few pieces of detail here and there to spruce things up a bit?
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2014
Mouse, having fun running around this map, I have to say it is very nice looking geometrically, but in-line with previous comments, it is very empty. It is almost like an NS1 map, flat walls, textures, very few models. The texturing is good, but the lighting and the lack of models really make the map feel empty and bare.
For an idea of what I mean, look at Glass Hallway in Summit. Look how much detailing has gone into the area, then compare that directly with Corner in your map. They are similar types of area. Glass Hallway feels like a real place, Corner feels like a level in an old school shooter.
I really love what you have done with the layout of the map, if you could detail it, it would be an amazing map.
Edit- I made this quick slideshow to illustrate my point..
It is almost like an NS1 map, flat walls, textures, very few models. The texturing is good, but the lighting and the lack of models really make the map feel empty and bare.
Can you tell I started with CS and NS1?
Hmm. One thing that'll make detailing interesting is that I'm specifically trying to make the place look abandoned. It's certainly not there yet, but I don't want go leave it with the atmosphere of descent or biodome
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
I ninja'd with a quick slideshow link
Abandoned is fine, but they wouldn't have taken the wall supports, beams, rails, etc. Which leads me onto my biggest problem with your map, marine movement.
Marines move around in NS2 by chaining jumps from one surface to another. It is the only way to get speed as a marine player. As your map does not have railings, etc, I have to walk everywhere as a marine. Wall Jumping is a treat, but marine movement is a pig :P
I don't know... While this map has really, really, really, really awesome geometry, it's still so ... empty. Alien Start is too narrow and the textures are a bit monotone.
Don't get me wrong; it's not like I don't appreciate your work. I just wouldn't call it "finished"
I agree, the geometry looks wonderful but the map itself seems very empty and lifeless. Maybe add a few pieces of detail here and there to spruce things up a bit?
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
edited January 2014
For the hell of it I've made a combat version of fusion.
It's comprised of the top left half of the map, including the length of the crevice through the map. Marines start in Fortress and Aliens start in Observation.
[EDIT] Oh and I've put some more effort into the look of fusion. Which parts of the map stand out as needing more work?
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Hey Mouse, it's an improvement, but still a way to go...
As an example, take a look at this screenshot:
I am not a mapper, at least, not like you are, but with 5 minutes work, I made this:
The other thing is, in todays game engines, models are cheaper than geometry. To this extent, in the screenshot above, that Geometric vent should not be there, it should be models instead. I did start to change it, but I got distracted, loaded up NS2 and the editor crashed, and I couldn't be bothered to continue....
Models are very important in modern maps, they are almost free engine-wise, so make the most of them. Use more models than geometry. I notice all your trims are textures too, again, these should be models..
You made some great maps in NS1, and fusion can be a great map, but ti feels like it is made for GoldSrc, rather than Spark/Source or any modern engine
1 of the biggest things i have noticed with using geometric shapes is the lack of textures to use on them, ns2 levels are model heavy and because of that there are very few textures to work eith mhen making things with geometry
I suggest using more varied textures, wallmods and pillars for a start. You should be able to slap most of them to random places and get some nice results if you do it properly
I must agree with Soul Rider here. I love the map, it took me some getting used to, but it's awesome, layout is good although you might have created too 'powerful' shortcuts for the aliens (like the one that goes under the map, accross three rooms in the centre of the map).
But it is true that the map feels empty. The textures are there sure, but there is no relief. The walls are straight. Take for example the screenshots that Soul Rider took. It feels already way better. and I'm not saying that you are bad, you've done an awesome work. But I think that by putting more details into it, the map could really have a particular and specific mood.The lower right (south east) side of the map feels desperatly empty.
We'll try it more often during French gathers, but I think we might have already adopted it.
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
Thanks for the news and the feedback @MauvaisVitrier! It's sometimes hard to keep track of whether your map is actually getting played.
@Pelargir I'm actually half way through building a more compressed version of the map. I'm not sure whether it's a good idea just yet.
Current changelog:
- Marine start moved north
- Storage moved south
- Storage to Fortress vent removed
- Shortcut to Lower Passage hallway removed
- Fortress to Shortcut hallway + Shortcut redesigned
- Lower Passage node redesigned
- Slice to Upper Passage hallway redesigned
+ probably one or two more changes
Because I'm making so many changes I should probably ask both of you (and whoever else winds up reading this post) some questions about the map:
1) Which parts of the map shouldn't change?
2) Which parts of the map need to change?
Comments
@AuroN2
Marine Start
Alien Start
Server
Corner
Crevice
Readyroom
Turnip!
Great work so far but i think the map will need some more polish work. Like some corners are a bit to dark and some texture crossovers look a bit odd.
Awesome that its running on your server
Could you provide some screenshots or location names of the places that you think need some more work?
Don't get me wrong; it's not like I don't appreciate your work. I just wouldn't call it "finished"
I agree, the geometry looks wonderful but the map itself seems very empty and lifeless. Maybe add a few pieces of detail here and there to spruce things up a bit?
@F0rdPrefect @doeseph Which locations are the main culprits?
For an idea of what I mean, look at Glass Hallway in Summit. Look how much detailing has gone into the area, then compare that directly with Corner in your map. They are similar types of area. Glass Hallway feels like a real place, Corner feels like a level in an old school shooter.
I really love what you have done with the layout of the map, if you could detail it, it would be an amazing map.
Edit- I made this quick slideshow to illustrate my point..
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Soulrefuge/slideshow/NS2 Map Ideas/fusion
Hmm. One thing that'll make detailing interesting is that I'm specifically trying to make the place look abandoned. It's certainly not there yet, but I don't want go leave it with the atmosphere of descent or biodome
Abandoned is fine, but they wouldn't have taken the wall supports, beams, rails, etc. Which leads me onto my biggest problem with your map, marine movement.
Marines move around in NS2 by chaining jumps from one surface to another. It is the only way to get speed as a marine player. As your map does not have railings, etc, I have to walk everywhere as a marine. Wall Jumping is a treat, but marine movement is a pig :P
(the slideshow did an unexpectedly good job of illustrating your point)
Well, what SoulRider said. There is an overall lack of detail. Take a look at kodiak, for example. Really nice details, everywhere.
Of course, that doesn't mean your map is bad, it just doesn't look finished to me
Sunset is good, but sunset has shadows
It's comprised of the top left half of the map, including the length of the crevice through the map. Marines start in Fortress and Aliens start in Observation.
[EDIT] Oh and I've put some more effort into the look of fusion. Which parts of the map stand out as needing more work?
As an example, take a look at this screenshot:
I am not a mapper, at least, not like you are, but with 5 minutes work, I made this:
The other thing is, in todays game engines, models are cheaper than geometry. To this extent, in the screenshot above, that Geometric vent should not be there, it should be models instead. I did start to change it, but I got distracted, loaded up NS2 and the editor crashed, and I couldn't be bothered to continue....
Models are very important in modern maps, they are almost free engine-wise, so make the most of them. Use more models than geometry. I notice all your trims are textures too, again, these should be models..
You made some great maps in NS1, and fusion can be a great map, but ti feels like it is made for GoldSrc, rather than Spark/Source or any modern engine
I hope this helps..
But it is true that the map feels empty. The textures are there sure, but there is no relief. The walls are straight. Take for example the screenshots that Soul Rider took. It feels already way better. and I'm not saying that you are bad, you've done an awesome work. But I think that by putting more details into it, the map could really have a particular and specific mood.The lower right (south east) side of the map feels desperatly empty.
We'll try it more often during French gathers, but I think we might have already adopted it.
Keep up the good work
@Pelargir I'm actually half way through building a more compressed version of the map. I'm not sure whether it's a good idea just yet.
Current changelog:
- Marine start moved north
- Storage moved south
- Storage to Fortress vent removed
- Shortcut to Lower Passage hallway removed
- Fortress to Shortcut hallway + Shortcut redesigned
- Lower Passage node redesigned
- Slice to Upper Passage hallway redesigned
+ probably one or two more changes
Because I'm making so many changes I should probably ask both of you (and whoever else winds up reading this post) some questions about the map:
1) Which parts of the map shouldn't change?
2) Which parts of the map need to change?