2) - 6) is possible for Steam games too. (Dawn of War 2 requires Steam AND Windows Live, Civilisation save games break when Steam updates, etc, etc...) And 1) has never bothered me personally, it's not like I'm constantly swapping DVDs.
But how exactly does Steam allow "TF2 to exist as intended"?
fixing alt tabbing? i havent even been able to run ns2 in fullscreen mode yet, and that on my hd5870.... just getting the infameous black screen with menu music playing, without a way to go back to windowed mode,except reinstall, i wasnt able to find the config file to set it back to windowed mode
its exactly how i imagined a pre alpha to be :p im not complaining, just trying to point at this issue of mine
Thanks for the awesome (and fast) feedback guys. I'm not sure what's causing the new performance problems, but now we're seeing them now too. We're on it.
<!--quoteo(post=1770630:date=May 10 2010, 12:38 PM:name=SgtBarlow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SgtBarlow @ May 10 2010, 12:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1770630"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->/me knocks Flayra on the head
He is looking at the Omni Lights Casting shadows right? Cause its those causing the FPS Drops.
* Some ATI users not Effected, My nVidia X8800 GTX is effected.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My vote is still PhysX, whether or its the implementation details, or something else. It seems the FPS drops happen with physic related stuff (object creation when those objects use physics) ... for me at least.
<!--quoteo(post=1770632:date=May 11 2010, 05:09 AM:name=Dalin Seivewright)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dalin Seivewright @ May 11 2010, 05:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1770632"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My vote is still PhysX, whether or its the implementation details, or something else. It seems the FPS drops happen with physic related stuff (object creation when those objects use physics) ... for me at least.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> oh you silly nali cow, if you got a nvidia card try disabling physx in the nvidia config thingie, and see if its improving, if it does we have a winrar with physx... since ati cards lack physx hardware support and use the cpu emulation driver thingie ive not experienced any frame drops when those physics targets pop up, or collapse.... why do they use physx anyways.. wouldnt be openCL be the better alternative to run a physics engine on since it can run on CUDA and ATI-Stream aswell?
<!--quoteo(post=1770796:date=May 11 2010, 11:52 AM:name=sheena_yanai)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sheena_yanai @ May 11 2010, 11:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1770796"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why do they use physx anyways.. wouldnt be openCL be the better alternative to run a physics engine on since it can run on CUDA and ATI-Stream aswell?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you really care enough about it to introduce indeterminable delays while the NS devs attempt to implement their own physics engine in OpenCL?
<!--quoteo(post=1770835:date=May 12 2010, 05:39 AM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soylent_green @ May 12 2010, 05:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1770835"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Do you really care enough about it to introduce indeterminable delays while the NS devs attempt to implement their own physics engine in OpenCL?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> not realy, in fact i do not care enough about any physics at all to accept a physics solution made by those nvidia nazis... is havok that bad? it did a decent job for hl2...except the obligatory stacked objects repelling bounce crap..oh..not to forget the hilarious physics object kills you by just touching it thing.. i loved those most, getting hurled across the map after getting insta killed by a table ive just pushed against the wall :p
<!--quoteo(post=1770845:date=May 11 2010, 04:07 PM:name=sheena_yanai)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sheena_yanai @ May 11 2010, 04:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1770845"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->is havok that bad?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes! Yes it is.
Until recently Havok was expensive, <i>even for major game developers</i>; PhysX is free even for commercial use. I believe there's still some opportunity cost to the developer in the form of complying with the license agreement, but no money changes hands.
Havok now has a programme for indie developers, but it would be expensive(opportunity cost) to switch physics engines now.
I haven't read all of the posts, but we are not using any hardware acceleration with PhysX at the moment. So it doesn't matter what kind of card you have, it's all running on your CPU.
<!--quoteo(post=1770870:date=May 12 2010, 08:49 AM:name=Max)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Max @ May 12 2010, 08:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1770870"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I haven't read all of the posts, but we are not using any hardware acceleration with PhysX at the moment. So it doesn't matter what kind of card you have, it's all running on your CPU.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah well in my post I mentioned my CPU was getting maxed at 12-13% (Single threaded?) which would of been one core of my i7 920 with HT (8 cores).
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Rothgar, HT doesn't work like that. You don't get 8 cores on a quad core with HT. HT just allows the system to address two logical processors, and the physical device maintains execution state between context switch. It makes it more efficient to switch between tasks on a single core. So if you are using 12-13% CPU then you are using 50% of CPU on a single core, or that 12-13% spread across all 4 cores. HT makes task switching much more efficient but does not produce true parallelism.
<!--quoteo(post=1770989:date=May 12 2010, 01:51 PM:name=xXpezcoolXx)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xXpezcoolXx @ May 12 2010, 01:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1770989"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For some reason...I can't lunch the game... there's no icon either for it...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> They are not for eating! <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY4V3UUY95A&feature=related#t=18s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY4V3UUY95A...e=related#t=18s</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1770989:date=May 12 2010, 12:51 PM:name=xXpezcoolXx)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xXpezcoolXx @ May 12 2010, 12:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1770989"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For some reason...I can't lunch the game... there's no icon either for it...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1771069:date=May 13 2010, 12:56 PM:name=Tekktra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tekktra @ May 13 2010, 12:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1771069"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Downloading now,, bit late BUT OMG i cant wait to test, on steam,, and the full game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well it works on steam, rifle sound get stuck, and dont stop... btw the music is dam cool cant wait to the full game is ready :)
<!--quoteo(post=1770971:date=May 12 2010, 06:11 PM:name=UncleRay)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (UncleRay @ May 12 2010, 06:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1770971"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I found the problem in the DLL which was causing the major performance issue..
/execute Kill all humans /end<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Neither did it fix my NS2 problems nore are my annoying neighbours gone... Shame on you! ;)
<!--quoteo(post=1771126:date=May 13 2010, 09:41 PM:name=Loey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Loey @ May 13 2010, 09:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1771126"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->do i need a program to display my fps or can it be done via a console command?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> "r_stats" in console
<!--quoteo(post=1770920:date=May 12 2010, 06:47 PM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (puzl @ May 12 2010, 06:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1770920"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rothgar, HT doesn't work like that. You don't get 8 cores on a quad core with HT. HT just allows the system to address two logical processors, and the physical device maintains execution state between context switch. It makes it more efficient to switch between tasks on a single core. So if you are using 12-13% CPU then you are using 50% of CPU on a single core, or that 12-13% spread across all 4 cores. HT makes task switching much more efficient but does not produce true parallelism.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Er I am fairly sure that is exactly how it works of course you don't get any additional physical cores by enabling HT you have 4 cores and HT then allows for 8 "logical" processors. The OS sees 8 processors and so can in theory execute 8 threads simultaneously. Now if the OS is SMT aware at least it would realize there are 4 physical cores so it can distribute the load across the "logical" processors better so one doesn't get hammered.
This does not stop the fact that if the application is not built to cater to multi-threading it's not going to see any advantage over any of this except the OS can execute other things on the other processors simultaneously. This is my understanding anyway.
<!--quoteo(post=1770796:date=May 11 2010, 10:52 AM:name=sheena_yanai)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sheena_yanai @ May 11 2010, 10:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1770796"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->oh you silly nali cow, if you got a nvidia card try disabling physx in the nvidia config thingie, and see if its improving, if it does we have a winrar with physx... since ati cards lack physx hardware support and use the cpu emulation driver thingie ive not experienced any frame drops when those physics targets pop up, or collapse....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm wasn't saying that PhysX might be causing the problem simply because its PhysX and somehow it was portrayed at somepoint that I was completely dead set against it, I was alluding to the fact that maybe the implementation between PhysX and the Engine itself might be causing issues.
Comments
<a href="http://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/topics/serious_performance_regression_with_steam_update" target="_blank">http://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/t...th_steam_update</a>
seems the performance hit is due to ragdolls. (maybe physx?)
**UPDATE**
a fix for the performance issue is posted here:
<a href="http://www.unitedworlds.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.unitedworlds.co.uk/</a>
download the latest map. runs smooth as hell now. (no more 3 fps.)
2) - 6) is possible for Steam games too. (Dawn of War 2 requires Steam AND Windows Live, Civilisation save games break when Steam updates, etc, etc...)
And 1) has never bothered me personally, it's not like I'm constantly swapping DVDs.
But how exactly does Steam allow "TF2 to exist as intended"?
just getting the infameous black screen with menu music playing, without a way to go back to windowed mode,except reinstall, i wasnt able to find the config file to set it back to windowed mode
its exactly how i imagined a pre alpha to be :p im not complaining, just trying to point at this issue of mine
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->CPU: AMD (Unknown model) (3010 MHz)
Memory: 8192 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 7 64-bit (Build 7600)
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series
Driver Packaging Version 8.712-100302b-096979C-ATI
Catalystâ„¢ Version 10.3
Provider ATI Technologies Inc.
2D Driver Version 8.01.01.1010
Direct3D Version 8.14.10.0735
OpenGL Version 6.14.10.9704
Catalystâ„¢ Control Center Version 2010.0302.2233.40412
Windows Graphics Driver Version: 8.14.0001.6099
OpenGL Version: 3.2.9704 Compatibility Profile Context<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very bad news for me :(
-Charlie
He is looking at the Omni Lights Casting shadows right? Cause its those causing the FPS Drops.
* Some ATI users not Effected, My nVidia X8800 GTX is effected.
He is looking at the Omni Lights Casting shadows right? Cause its those causing the FPS Drops.
* Some ATI users not Effected, My nVidia X8800 GTX is effected.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My vote is still PhysX, whether or its the implementation details, or something else. It seems the FPS drops happen with physic related stuff (object creation when those objects use physics) ... for me at least.
oh you silly nali cow, if you got a nvidia card try disabling physx in the nvidia config thingie, and see if its improving, if it does we have a winrar with physx...
since ati cards lack physx hardware support and use the cpu emulation driver thingie ive not experienced any frame drops when those physics targets pop up, or collapse.... why do they use physx anyways.. wouldnt be openCL be the better alternative to run a physics engine on since it can run on CUDA and ATI-Stream aswell?
worked at lowest settings before but now just crashes when i try to run it
Do you really care enough about it to introduce indeterminable delays while the NS devs attempt to implement their own physics engine in OpenCL?
not realy, in fact i do not care enough about any physics at all to accept a physics solution made by those nvidia nazis... is havok that bad? it did a decent job for hl2...except the obligatory stacked objects repelling bounce crap..oh..not to forget the hilarious physics object kills you by just touching it thing.. i loved those most, getting hurled across the map after getting insta killed by a table ive just pushed against the wall :p
Yes! Yes it is.
Until recently Havok was expensive, <i>even for major game developers</i>; PhysX is free even for commercial use. I believe there's still some opportunity cost to the developer in the form of complying with the license agreement, but no money changes hands.
Havok now has a programme for indie developers, but it would be expensive(opportunity cost) to switch physics engines now.
Yeah well in my post I mentioned my CPU was getting maxed at 12-13% (Single threaded?) which would of been one core of my i7 920 with HT (8 cores).
/execute
Kill all humans
/end
They are not for eating!
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY4V3UUY95A&feature=related#t=18s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY4V3UUY95A...e=related#t=18s</a>
;)
installing it should help
well it works on steam, rifle sound get stuck, and dont stop...
btw the music is dam cool
cant wait to the full game is ready :)
/execute
Kill all humans
/end<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Neither did it fix my NS2 problems nore are my annoying neighbours gone... Shame on you! ;)
"r_stats" in console
Er I am fairly sure that is exactly how it works of course you don't get any additional physical cores by enabling HT you have 4 cores and HT then allows for 8 "logical" processors. The OS sees 8 processors and so can in theory execute 8 threads simultaneously. Now if the OS is SMT aware at least it would realize there are 4 physical cores so it can distribute the load across the "logical" processors better so one doesn't get hammered.
This does not stop the fact that if the application is not built to cater to multi-threading it's not going to see any advantage over any of this except the OS can execute other things on the other processors simultaneously. This is my understanding anyway.
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper-threading" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper-threading</a>
since ati cards lack physx hardware support and use the cpu emulation driver thingie ive not experienced any frame drops when those physics targets pop up, or collapse....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm wasn't saying that PhysX might be causing the problem simply because its PhysX and somehow it was portrayed at somepoint that I was completely dead set against it,
I was alluding to the fact that maybe the implementation between PhysX and the Engine itself might be causing issues.