<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Limited resources per nozzle<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure what this is meant to address. Is it to make marines not turtle and expand? Then just make tech-points more useful for them. Is it to stop stalemates where the team has been pushed back to the base, the marines can't push out but the aliens can't push in? Then there is a problem with the aliens not getting enough from the res and tech point advantage they gained, if the onos and biles just doesn't cut it to get the marines down.
Imagine this scenario: Two good teams fight eachothers. They each hold roughly half the map. They battle back and forth, push a node down, get pushed back, drops a that gets killed, a great struggle to gain the upper hand, with lots of wit and skill needed to get the upper hand. But soon, the resources starts to deplete. Shortly, there isn't a single resource nozzle left on the map that can be used. The only way to get any res for a gun/lifeform is to kill until you can afford it. So what happens? Remember, the teams are about equally good. The marines will likely win. When a lifeform dies, it is lost and can't be regained. When a marine dies, another can pick up his weapon, effectivly giving the marines the res advantage and makes them win as they slowly grind the alien lifeforms down and get a larger portions of big weapons themselves.
Games like Starcraft need the depletion, so that teams good at turtling (marines anyone?) can't just fortify their base and slowly build up to push out. It's balanced on both numbers of units and their power, where we only have power with a fixed number of them. They have to expand or they will run out of resources to support their turtle, they can't just be efficient with the units they have. "Don't we want this too?". Yes, we want to expand and use our resources effectively too. But balancing so that resources will run out will only slow the game down and lead to more stalemates. If a team can be so efficient as to hold back a team when they only have ~10-15% of their resource income, and a single techpoint, then the efficiency of static defense, resource refunding (picking up dropped weapons) and resources/kill is the problem, not that they keep getting resources.
I can only see this as a problem with the marine team being to proficient with turtling. If the alien team can hold back the marines from a single hive, eighter by not using any advanced lifeforms or get enough res and be given the time to evolve into a new one (and it would only be lerks and gorges with the skulks), while the marines can't get and defend a few arcs to take down the hive, then how could the aliens fail to push out from there? A marine team should never have a hard time to get the last hive if they have most of the map. You got arcs, they shoot through walls. The gorge can't bile and you will not meet any fades. You will have exo's and jetpacks. If you still don't manage, obviously the alien team must have grown to insane skill from the time when they lost the entire map, while you are all facerolling.
With this said, the reason why this is even though of is to end turtles from the alien perspective. If the only way for the aliens to win against a good marine team is to wait for the resources to run out, then I believe the balance of the game is seriously broken, and the marines get too good when all defends a single location with few entrances.
Looking back at the scenario of an even team, why will it slow down the game? Obviously you get less resources, and get a certain amount of stress to gain the next nozzle to keep up the res flow; isn't this a good thing? On first glance, it is easy to think so. But what happens when you meet an equally expansive and good team? All the res will run out at around the same time, severly limiting both teams availability to gain new equipment. So how will the game continue? The focus will shift to static defenses. If the marines try to win, they must have sentries covering their base(s) while they try to push out. If they initially got good weapons, and stick together, assuming the aliens got some advanced lifeforms too, both teams will lose some lifeforms and equipment/weapons when they push. Since they tried to push, none will be able to pick up the weapons fast enough and they will disappear. The lifeforms are lost. So now both teams are weaker. The aliens group up again and the marines will probably fall back to not lose all their good weapons. If they split up they can be zerged down by the alien team. The marine commander will soon run out of personal res to support his soldiers, unless he get frequent sentry kills. After some time, both teams will be at the point where they can't get new weapons or lifeforms. We are back at lmg vs skulk gameplay again, but your team now holds some of the map. The marines will be fully upgraded, but the aliens can't afford to get any skulk upgrades due to the nature of evolutions. How can the aliens prevent the marines from pushing down their hives, one at a time? As the skulks will likely lose more against the marines, the marines will approach hives or slowly build up some personal res. The commanders will not be able to replace any team structures or get any ARC, as there is no team res to be had anymore. The only way to fairly reliably prevent a marine push from getting the hive is with hydra farms nearby, and whips to whack away any potential grenade launcher marine. So what does this give us? A slow game where one team may eventually grind down the other part.
Doesn't sound like it adds anything to me. I don't see how it would be a good way to stop turtles, and it will effectively make any long game very limited and stale in the end. Some of my best ns1 games where those long, even games where the marines got pushed back to their base and eventually got grinded down by onos, bilebombs, xenocides, spores, primal screams and had gorges build OC's to prevent marines from getting out and DC/SC/MC stations to support the team effort in taking the last room. I mostly played Kharaa back then.
I'm extremely skeptical that UWE will be able to implement depleting resources in a manner that adds to the gameplay experience, and share Fluid Core's doubts about its ability to counter turtling (if that is indeed what it is supposed to do).
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1898408:date=Jan 31 2012, 03:49 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Jan 31 2012, 03:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898408"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm extremely skeptical that UWE will be able to implement depleting resources in a manner that adds to the gameplay experience, and share Fluid Core's doubts about its ability to counter turtling (if that is indeed what it is supposed to do).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> +1
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
It's kind of depressing to see which forum-suggested ideas UWE try to implement and which they ignore.
A couple of months ago I was hopeful that the game would eventually progress into something nice, but lately I'm increasingly falling into a "we're doomed" state of mind.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Limited resources per nozzle<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think we're all making grand statements without knowing what this means. It could mean that a just destroyed RT has a 'ramp up time' if the same team rebuilds it. It could mean that the more RT you get the less the new ones contribute. It could mean each RT has X resources to give.
I <i>hope </i>it means giving mappers flexibility, where they get to specify an amount (99999 or 250). If it doesn't work out, no maps will use it, but perhaps a neat new map style/play style will evolve out of it.
Yeah, I'm having really hard time seeing depleting resoucres work in a game that hasn't been designed around that kind of play. If there's really need to go there, please make sure you prove me wrong big time.
I like it. Apart from that I think it will help stalemates and turret spam, people have complained that for some random spawns the game will only focus on one part of the map. This will help against that.
I like it... then again I kept suggesting it to prevent turtling...and run away games.
If it simply means each resource node gives out X resources...then it is done. That's exactly what i had in mind.
You want a rewards system to motivate the ground troops. How about money?
They don't listen to me because they can buy there own guns. Not if there ain't no money left. 0 Personal Resources ... why? you didn't change with the times, that's why.
Move it you slubs ....if we don't take this area...no more shotties...no more upgraded lifeforms Get yer arses into gear.
Man there could be an ANTI-Achievement called "Sitting on yer ducks" for running the money well dry.
I like the new ideas, especially the waypoint system.
Some ideas though.
1. I think the new waypoint system and dynamic squad system would work great together. So when players accept a certain task/waypoint they're grouped into the same squad. In the log picture, it would group all three of those players into the same squad. This would make perfect sense because all the players within the squad would have the same objective insuring they stick together and work together.
2. On the limiting resources per nozzle. I like the concept, and I have mentioned it a while back before. However, I think it needs a little tweaking. Instead of running out of resources, its production rate should just begin to decline after a certain amount of time. So the team who gets the node first and can hold it long enough will get a substantial boost in resources, while the other team will have to settle for the scraps and left overs. This encourages players to expand quicker and fight over contested territory, while still providing the enemy team with a small reward for reclaiming a node; they won't get nearly as much resources, but they will get something small to help the cause.
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Waypoint system sounds great.
I'm not a big fan of letting marines opt-out of being beaconed. Activating the beacon is a desparate measure, and should have some downsides. Pulling every marine from their potential attack is a good downside and aliens use this to their advantage. Having marines opt-out is just too powerful, especially for an organized team.
PlasmaJoin Date: 2003-04-26Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We have a new “corrode†damage type which the whip bombard attack uses which seems perfect. But how to differentiate these two abilities?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Maybe when a power node is hit by the "corrode" damage type, it "buckles" as if acid is chewing at it (and makes a cracking noise, as if the metal is decaying / bucking under pressure)?
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Design task Change # of allowed evolutions to # of hives transitioned from Started to Finished<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not entirely sure what evolutions are meaning; lifeforms or upgrades?
DghelneshiAims to surpass Fana in post edits.Join Date: 2011-11-01Member: 130634Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1898440:date=Jan 31 2012, 07:27 PM:name=Forss)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Forss @ Jan 31 2012, 07:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898440"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like it. Apart from that I think it will help stalemates and turret spam, people have complained that for some random spawns the game will only focus on one part of the map. This will help against that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> How would it end stalemates? If the resource nozzles are depleted, the winning team will <b>also</b> have no more res. A turtling team with 1 res node currently has a huge disadvantage of resources, which makes stalemates more likely to be broken, since the other team can just spam the hell out of whatever they can spend their res on (i.e. whiprush with fades/gorges/etc.). With limited resource nozzles, the game will <b>definitely</b> end in a draw which none of the teams can ever hope to end, since both teams will be down to their most basic weapons against a large amount of structures. I would actually not be surprised if games could last for <b>DAYS</b> this way if there are always new players joining.
<!--quoteo(post=1898456:date=Jan 31 2012, 09:30 PM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Jan 31 2012, 09:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898456"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not a big fan of letting marines opt-out of being beaconed. Activating the beacon is a desparate measure, and should have some downsides. Pulling every marine from their potential attack is a good downside and aliens use this to their advantage. Having marines opt-out is just too powerful, especially for an organized team.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> +1 I also despise having <b>another</b> action bound to the E key, especially one which is pretty counter-intuitive. Having many actions on one key is confusing and extremely annoying, if ambiguous situations happen often enough (building something with a weapon lying on front of it is lagging server/client and incredibly annoying if you lose your weapon due to this or even get killed by suddenly having an empty weapon in your hands). You would often want to build something but still want to be beaconed, even if it is not finished by then.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Cranking up bile bomb range and splash to help with alien end-game [...] Also want to increase bile bomb’s effectiveness vs. power nodes<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Increasing the gorge's strength just after you nerfed it for being way too strong right now? Also, power nodes are extremely weak as of now. Get 2-3 gorges to bile bomb a power node and think again if you <b>really</b> want to increase their damage.
I suppose that they still need to test all other gameplay/design-tasks until we get to see the "ohnoez" and the jetpack in the wild. The technical tasks seem to be finished though. :D
id rather have the onos. it's been forever. release it then we can test and fix the glitchy gorilla. people were thinking onos would be out a couple patches ago...
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1898703:date=Feb 1 2012, 11:49 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Feb 1 2012, 11:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898703"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gorilla will be cool and all but I'm more excited for the patch that fixes server rates :P We're so close!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> How about a bit of that and Gorilla?
We need new maps so badly but there's no point even saying it. It's probably the most time consuming part of the whole process to produce something with quality.
Like...summit seriously seems like a classic NS map that 'has it all', but tram has lots of problems and I see no alternatives. Peoples' understanding and enjoyment of the game would develop a lot with even 1 more map to play.
edit: just checked the mapping subforum and there's so much potential there it's ridiculous!
<!--quoteo(post=1898743:date=Feb 2 2012, 02:46 AM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Feb 2 2012, 02:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898743"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We need new maps so badly but there's no point even saying it. It's probably the most time consuming part of the whole process to produce something with quality.
Like...summit seriously seems like a classic NS map that 'has it all', but tram has lots of problems and I see no alternatives. Peoples' understanding and enjoyment of the game would develop a lot with even 1 more map to play.
edit: just checked the mapping subforum and there's so much potential there it's ridiculous!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The (very) soon to be released Gorilla patch will have an all new map, Mineshaft in it.
Gorilla will also have some further revisions to Tram, and there are even larger revisions to Tram that are being worked on that will be released shortly after the Gorilla patch, as well. Tram is continuing to be reworked/polished/tweaked to make it more playable. When you say Tram has "lots of problems" when was the last time you played it? And what are the specific problems that you have with it?
We also have several other official maps in development which are very far along, and we are keeping an eye on the mapping subforums, and working with authors whose maps are showing the most potential. As the gameplay solidifies more, and the remaining features are put into the game, it will become much easier for mappers to properly create fun and balanced maps. We expect that, by the time NS2 is released, there will be a good variety of both official and unofficial maps to play on, and many more to follow soon after.
Performance would probably be the main issue with tram, that long tunnel is very unforgiving, as well as the rather complex geometry, compared to the old standby summit anyway. When map-downloading is implemented, said reasons will probably lead to turtle\veil\eclipse being prefered over tram.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1898743:date=Feb 1 2012, 06:46 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Feb 1 2012, 06:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898743"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We need new maps so badly but there's no point even saying it. It's probably the most time consuming part of the whole process to produce something with quality.
Like...summit seriously seems like a classic NS map that 'has it all', but tram has lots of problems and I see no alternatives. Peoples' understanding and enjoyment of the game would develop a lot with even 1 more map to play.
edit: just checked the mapping subforum and there's so much potential there it's ridiculous!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is mostly due to the lack of map rotation/downloading. Because servers can't rotate between maps and players would have to manually install each map, its simply much easier to run summit (or tram) 24/7. So far I count 6 maps that have actual releases (see below) and a bajillion more WIPs, so NS2 custom mapping is coming along nicely.
ns2_descent: by Jonacrab Forum link: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115041" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=115041</a> Download link: <a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43181294/ns2_descent_beta01.zip" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43181294/ns2_descent_beta01.zip</a>
ns2_eclipse: by Remedy Forum link: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115970" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=115970</a> Download link: <a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17532519/NS2_Eclipse_v01.rar" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17532519/NS2_Eclipse_v01.rar</a>
ns2_junction: by shakewell Forum link: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115172" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=115172</a> Download link: <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?2j4rx7pz1ybzafo" target="_blank">http://www.mediafire.com/?2j4rx7pz1ybzafo</a>
ns2_triad: by [=Alex=] Forum link: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=113658" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=113658</a> Download link: <a href="http://www.super-nova-team.com/alex/ns2_triad26.rar" target="_blank">http://www.super-nova-team.com/alex/ns2_triad26.rar</a>
ns2_turtle: by Evil_bOb1 Forum link: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=113440" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=113440</a> Download link: <a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/ns2_turtle_b1.rar" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/ns2_turtle_b1.rar</a>
ns2_veil: by fmpone Forum link: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=114979" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=114979</a> Download link: <a href="http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ROEC7Z5A" target="_blank">http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ROEC7Z5A</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1898784:date=Feb 2 2012, 02:00 AM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Feb 2 2012, 02:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898784"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is mostly due to the lack of map rotation/downloading. Because servers can't rotate between maps and players would have to manually install each map, its simply much easier to run summit (or tram) 24/7.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, map rotation was released in 192. People just have to download the maps manually (for now).
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2012
<b>Tram</b> have alot of gameplay issues as well, the main one is probably that both teams spawn completely randomly(not just a tram problem). It's mostly the fact that both teams are able to spawn at the same locations. Aliens need vents to get around the map, marines starts need to not have them for balancing reasons. Also if teams spawn too close, it usually results in 1-2minute spawncamp games which is no fun for either team. Spawncamp games like this can even happen with larger distances, but with close spawns it's annoyingly often. My suggestion for tram starting positions: <b>Static Marine start</b>(old marine start, cant remember new name) <b>Random Alien start in 2 places</b>(old alien start(cant remember new name) or Server Room) That will bring balance to the map again, as well as letting random spawns stay in the map.
Comments
I'm not sure what this is meant to address. Is it to make marines not turtle and expand? Then just make tech-points more useful for them. Is it to stop stalemates where the team has been pushed back to the base, the marines can't push out but the aliens can't push in? Then there is a problem with the aliens not getting enough from the res and tech point advantage they gained, if the onos and biles just doesn't cut it to get the marines down.
Imagine this scenario: Two good teams fight eachothers. They each hold roughly half the map. They battle back and forth, push a node down, get pushed back, drops a that gets killed, a great struggle to gain the upper hand, with lots of wit and skill needed to get the upper hand. But soon, the resources starts to deplete. Shortly, there isn't a single resource nozzle left on the map that can be used. The only way to get any res for a gun/lifeform is to kill until you can afford it. So what happens? Remember, the teams are about equally good. The marines will likely win. When a lifeform dies, it is lost and can't be regained. When a marine dies, another can pick up his weapon, effectivly giving the marines the res advantage and makes them win as they slowly grind the alien lifeforms down and get a larger portions of big weapons themselves.
Games like Starcraft need the depletion, so that teams good at turtling (marines anyone?) can't just fortify their base and slowly build up to push out. It's balanced on both numbers of units and their power, where we only have power with a fixed number of them. They have to expand or they will run out of resources to support their turtle, they can't just be efficient with the units they have. "Don't we want this too?". Yes, we want to expand and use our resources effectively too. But balancing so that resources will run out will only slow the game down and lead to more stalemates. If a team can be so efficient as to hold back a team when they only have ~10-15% of their resource income, and a single techpoint, then the efficiency of static defense, resource refunding (picking up dropped weapons) and resources/kill is the problem, not that they keep getting resources.
I can only see this as a problem with the marine team being to proficient with turtling. If the alien team can hold back the marines from a single hive, eighter by not using any advanced lifeforms or get enough res and be given the time to evolve into a new one (and it would only be lerks and gorges with the skulks), while the marines can't get and defend a few arcs to take down the hive, then how could the aliens fail to push out from there? A marine team should never have a hard time to get the last hive if they have most of the map. You got arcs, they shoot through walls. The gorge can't bile and you will not meet any fades. You will have exo's and jetpacks. If you still don't manage, obviously the alien team must have grown to insane skill from the time when they lost the entire map, while you are all facerolling.
With this said, the reason why this is even though of is to end turtles from the alien perspective. If the only way for the aliens to win against a good marine team is to wait for the resources to run out, then I believe the balance of the game is seriously broken, and the marines get too good when all defends a single location with few entrances.
Looking back at the scenario of an even team, why will it slow down the game? Obviously you get less resources, and get a certain amount of stress to gain the next nozzle to keep up the res flow; isn't this a good thing? On first glance, it is easy to think so. But what happens when you meet an equally expansive and good team? All the res will run out at around the same time, severly limiting both teams availability to gain new equipment. So how will the game continue? The focus will shift to static defenses. If the marines try to win, they must have sentries covering their base(s) while they try to push out. If they initially got good weapons, and stick together, assuming the aliens got some advanced lifeforms too, both teams will lose some lifeforms and equipment/weapons when they push. Since they tried to push, none will be able to pick up the weapons fast enough and they will disappear. The lifeforms are lost. So now both teams are weaker. The aliens group up again and the marines will probably fall back to not lose all their good weapons. If they split up they can be zerged down by the alien team. The marine commander will soon run out of personal res to support his soldiers, unless he get frequent sentry kills. After some time, both teams will be at the point where they can't get new weapons or lifeforms. We are back at lmg vs skulk gameplay again, but your team now holds some of the map. The marines will be fully upgraded, but the aliens can't afford to get any skulk upgrades due to the nature of evolutions. How can the aliens prevent the marines from pushing down their hives, one at a time? As the skulks will likely lose more against the marines, the marines will approach hives or slowly build up some personal res. The commanders will not be able to replace any team structures or get any ARC, as there is no team res to be had anymore. The only way to fairly reliably prevent a marine push from getting the hive is with hydra farms nearby, and whips to whack away any potential grenade launcher marine. So what does this give us? A slow game where one team may eventually grind down the other part.
Doesn't sound like it adds anything to me. I don't see how it would be a good way to stop turtles, and it will effectively make any long game very limited and stale in the end. Some of my best ns1 games where those long, even games where the marines got pushed back to their base and eventually got grinded down by onos, bilebombs, xenocides, spores, primal screams and had gorges build OC's to prevent marines from getting out and DC/SC/MC stations to support the team effort in taking the last room. I mostly played Kharaa back then.
Please, Unknown Worlds, reconsider on this point.
Sincerely,
Fluid Core
+1
A couple of months ago I was hopeful that the game would eventually progress into something nice, but lately I'm increasingly falling into a "we're doomed" state of mind.
I think we're all making grand statements without knowing what this means.
It could mean that a just destroyed RT has a 'ramp up time' if the same team rebuilds it.
It could mean that the more RT you get the less the new ones contribute.
It could mean each RT has X resources to give.
I <i>hope </i>it means giving mappers flexibility, where they get to specify an amount (99999 or 250). If it doesn't work out, no maps will use it, but perhaps a neat new map style/play style will evolve out of it.
then again I kept suggesting it to prevent turtling...and run away games.
If it simply means each resource node gives out X resources...then it is done.
That's exactly what i had in mind.
You want a rewards system to motivate the ground troops.
How about money?
They don't listen to me because they can buy there own guns.
Not if there ain't no money left.
0 Personal Resources ... why? you didn't change with the times, that's why.
Move it you slubs ....if we don't take this area...no more shotties...no more upgraded lifeforms
Get yer arses into gear.
Man there could be an ANTI-Achievement called "Sitting on yer ducks" for running the money well dry.
Some ideas though.
1. I think the new waypoint system and dynamic squad system would work great together. So when players accept a certain task/waypoint they're grouped into the same squad. In the log picture, it would group all three of those players into the same squad. This would make perfect sense because all the players within the squad would have the same objective insuring they stick together and work together.
2. On the limiting resources per nozzle. I like the concept, and I have mentioned it a while back before. However, I think it needs a little tweaking. Instead of running out of resources, its production rate should just begin to decline after a certain amount of time. So the team who gets the node first and can hold it long enough will get a substantial boost in resources, while the other team will have to settle for the scraps and left overs. This encourages players to expand quicker and fight over contested territory, while still providing the enemy team with a small reward for reclaiming a node; they won't get nearly as much resources, but they will get something small to help the cause.
I'm not a big fan of letting marines opt-out of being beaconed. Activating the beacon is a desparate measure, and should have some downsides. Pulling every marine from their potential attack is a good downside and aliens use this to their advantage. Having marines opt-out is just too powerful, especially for an organized team.
No-no to Distress Beacon Opt-Out, for reasons others have already stated.
This would help comms on pubs distinguish the order followers from the rambos.
Where would the request appear?
Specific point on map?
In front of everyone? (HUD)
Maybe when a power node is hit by the "corrode" damage type, it "buckles" as if acid is chewing at it (and makes a cracking noise, as if the metal is decaying / bucking under pressure)?
I'm not entirely sure what evolutions are meaning; lifeforms or upgrades?
How would it end stalemates? If the resource nozzles are depleted, the winning team will <b>also</b> have no more res.
A turtling team with 1 res node currently has a huge disadvantage of resources, which makes stalemates more likely to be broken, since the other team can just spam the hell out of whatever they can spend their res on (i.e. whiprush with fades/gorges/etc.). With limited resource nozzles, the game will <b>definitely</b> end in a draw which none of the teams can ever hope to end, since both teams will be down to their most basic weapons against a large amount of structures. I would actually not be surprised if games could last for <b>DAYS</b> this way if there are always new players joining.
<!--quoteo(post=1898456:date=Jan 31 2012, 09:30 PM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Jan 31 2012, 09:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1898456"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not a big fan of letting marines opt-out of being beaconed. Activating the beacon is a desparate measure, and should have some downsides. Pulling every marine from their potential attack is a good downside and aliens use this to their advantage. Having marines opt-out is just too powerful, especially for an organized team.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
I also despise having <b>another</b> action bound to the E key, especially one which is pretty counter-intuitive. Having many actions on one key is confusing and extremely annoying, if ambiguous situations happen often enough (building something with a weapon lying on front of it is lagging server/client and incredibly annoying if you lose your weapon due to this or even get killed by suddenly having an empty weapon in your hands). You would often want to build something but still want to be beaconed, even if it is not finished by then.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Cranking up bile bomb range and splash to help with alien end-game
[...]
Also want to increase bile bomb’s effectiveness vs. power nodes<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Increasing the gorge's strength just after you nerfed it for being way too strong right now? Also, power nodes are extremely weak as of now. Get 2-3 gorges to bile bomb a power node and think again if you <b>really</b> want to increase their damage.
Not Gorilla D:??
Maybe? :)
How about a bit of that and Gorilla?
Like...summit seriously seems like a classic NS map that 'has it all', but tram has lots of problems and I see no alternatives. Peoples' understanding and enjoyment of the game would develop a lot with even 1 more map to play.
edit: just checked the mapping subforum and there's so much potential there it's ridiculous!
Like...summit seriously seems like a classic NS map that 'has it all', but tram has lots of problems and I see no alternatives. Peoples' understanding and enjoyment of the game would develop a lot with even 1 more map to play.
edit: just checked the mapping subforum and there's so much potential there it's ridiculous!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The (very) soon to be released Gorilla patch will have an all new map, Mineshaft in it.
Gorilla will also have some further revisions to Tram, and there are even larger revisions to Tram that are being worked on that will be released shortly after the Gorilla patch, as well. Tram is continuing to be reworked/polished/tweaked to make it more playable. When you say Tram has "lots of problems" when was the last time you played it? And what are the specific problems that you have with it?
We also have several other official maps in development which are very far along, and we are keeping an eye on the mapping subforums, and working with authors whose maps are showing the most potential. As the gameplay solidifies more, and the remaining features are put into the game, it will become much easier for mappers to properly create fun and balanced maps. We expect that, by the time NS2 is released, there will be a good variety of both official and unofficial maps to play on, and many more to follow soon after.
--Cory
Like...summit seriously seems like a classic NS map that 'has it all', but tram has lots of problems and I see no alternatives. Peoples' understanding and enjoyment of the game would develop a lot with even 1 more map to play.
edit: just checked the mapping subforum and there's so much potential there it's ridiculous!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is mostly due to the lack of map rotation/downloading. Because servers can't rotate between maps and players would have to manually install each map, its simply much easier to run summit (or tram) 24/7. So far I count 6 maps that have actual releases (see below) and a bajillion more WIPs, so NS2 custom mapping is coming along nicely.
ns2_descent: by Jonacrab
Forum link: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115041" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=115041</a>
Download link: <a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43181294/ns2_descent_beta01.zip" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43181294/ns2_descent_beta01.zip</a>
ns2_eclipse: by Remedy
Forum link: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115970" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=115970</a>
Download link: <a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17532519/NS2_Eclipse_v01.rar" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17532519/NS2_Eclipse_v01.rar</a>
ns2_junction: by shakewell
Forum link: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115172" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=115172</a>
Download link: <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?2j4rx7pz1ybzafo" target="_blank">http://www.mediafire.com/?2j4rx7pz1ybzafo</a>
ns2_triad: by [=Alex=]
Forum link: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=113658" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=113658</a>
Download link: <a href="http://www.super-nova-team.com/alex/ns2_triad26.rar" target="_blank">http://www.super-nova-team.com/alex/ns2_triad26.rar</a>
ns2_turtle: by Evil_bOb1
Forum link: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=113440" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=113440</a>
Download link: <a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/ns2_turtle_b1.rar" target="_blank">http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/ns2_turtle_b1.rar</a>
ns2_veil: by fmpone
Forum link: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=114979" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=114979</a>
Download link: <a href="http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ROEC7Z5A" target="_blank">http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ROEC7Z5A</a>
Actually, map rotation was released in 192. People just have to download the maps manually (for now).
It's mostly the fact that both teams are able to spawn at the same locations.
Aliens need vents to get around the map, marines starts need to not have them for balancing reasons.
Also if teams spawn too close, it usually results in 1-2minute spawncamp games which is no fun for either team.
Spawncamp games like this can even happen with larger distances, but with close spawns it's annoyingly often.
My suggestion for tram starting positions:
<b>Static Marine start</b>(old marine start, cant remember new name)
<b>Random Alien start in 2 places</b>(old alien start(cant remember new name) or Server Room)
That will bring balance to the map again, as well as letting random spawns stay in the map.