Why can't we have two types of lerks. The first with spikes, sniping and spores; while the second has a talons and a bite. You could even change mechanics slightly allowing the support lerk to hang like a bat (suggested on Get Satisfaction) and the melee lerk gets faster speed.
I thought this was the direction the UWE was going with evolution. Allowing the player to customized their alien for individual play style or hive needs.
<!--quoteo(post=1846920:date=May 17 2011, 11:50 PM:name=KuBaN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KuBaN @ May 17 2011, 11:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1846920"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For the same reason <b>TERRIBLE</b> blockbuster movies make so much money: they appeal to <b>everyone</b> by appealing to <b>no one</b> in particular. There is very little redeemable sustenance from most of the trash that is "breaking sales records." AAA games sales have <b>A LOT</b> more to do with money (advertising and the strength of the franchise) than any compelling gameplay elements. Most of the games (and movies) that make ass-loads of money now are utterly terrible. Which is another reason why I was following an indie development studio that showed a lot of <b>ambition</b> and <b>innovation</b>, and not E.A., Michael Bay or Uwe Boll (yes they all belong in the same category).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The innovation of NS2 was taking it to much more of the 'appeal everyone' category. Also, a lot of the innovation you saw was at very sketchy level and didn't seem to play out very well in any context I understood. Like I've said before; it's not difficult to come up with seemingly innovative stuff, it's difficult to make it work in a meaningful way as a part of the gameplay. At least I was against some of the changes because they exactly seemed very Michael Bay'ish kind of big draws on the canvas without having any deeper meaning or details in them.
I'm not particularly fond of the revert to NS1 tech tree either, but I think it's better than basing the whole game on some gimmick that never had more than a rough sketch. Even if NS2 isn't apparently going to be as blazingly innovative as it first promised, it can still mix up the original concept through more subtle changes. If anything, the subtlety and ability to create enjoyment through smaller details are the things that the big mainstream gaming industry is lacking even more than innovation right now.
If NS2 sticks to the old and still fails to create new stuff through the smaller details I might give you that the innovation is gone, but I don't want to hop on to that bandwagon until the game actually finished. This is exactly why you don't do reviews until the game is actually done.
<!--quoteo(post=1847005:date=May 18 2011, 07:09 AM:name=Game-Sloth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Game-Sloth @ May 18 2011, 07:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847005"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why can't we have two types of lerks. The first with spikes, sniping and spores; while the second has a talons and a bite. You could even change mechanics slightly allowing the support lerk to hang like a bat (suggested on Get Satisfaction) and the melee lerk gets faster speed.
I thought this was the direction the UWE was going with evolution. Allowing the player to customized their alien for individual play style or hive needs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That sounds interesting, but I would like it actually.
Maybe they could add in these upgrades in the alien buy menu.
I do like this though because adding in Unique types is awesome and made NS1 really really good. Please read that post UWE and have a little thinking session about it. I would love to see something like that happen.
First case: Porting the game entire, updating the graphics? Good idea. This could have been NS2. I would have paid for it. I would have played it.
Second case: Reworking the game, keeping the same spirit? Risky, but yields its own rewards. This would have been NS2; but it could very well have been NS3 being developed on the revenue from the aforementioned first case. That would have been a good move.
But <u>this</u>? What is this? This is neither. This was like an attempt to make the second case, which was then abandoned. Like a booming business city that suddenly flounders so we try to go back to the old ways, but we've still got all these half-finished skyscrapers dotting the city.
But hell, I'm just ranting. I still hope that UWE still moves back to the second case, or else just gives us the re-skinned NS1 we all crave (and hell, why not?). One thing must be said, though: Abort <u>this</u> [illegitimate]*-child.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why can't we have two types of lerks. The first with spikes, sniping and spores; while the second has a talons and a bite. You could even change mechanics slightly allowing the support lerk to hang like a bat (suggested on Get Satisfaction) and the melee lerk gets faster speed.
I thought this was the direction the UWE was going with evolution. Allowing the player to customized their alien for individual play style or hive needs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this a lot, in NS1 a good lerk tactic was to gas the marines for a while and then go melee to finish a isolated weakened one. I've played NS1 recently and good lerks just rape marines, they are so fast and fly in the legs of the marines, come from top or behind, etc...
Now separating spore from melee would force two lerks to team up to do the same job. Buying two lerks at the same time could be cheaper and the lerks would come from a single egg :)
<!--quoteo(post=1846966:date=May 18 2011, 04:04 AM:name=KuBaN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KuBaN @ May 18 2011, 04:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1846966"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ah, I misunderstood what you meant by that. Fair point.
Infestation could provide LOS???<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think it does, but the problem is that Whip Bombard is a gooey-looking ball, so I'm almost certain it <i>isn't</i> going to shoot through walls.
<!--quoteo(post=1847055:date=May 18 2011, 02:32 PM:name=NurEinMensch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NurEinMensch @ May 18 2011, 02:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847055"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Boy you people are melodramatic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well they have been waiting 2 years for a game, I'm giving them allowance to be melodramatic now.
What honestly baffles me the most is how "raw" all these new features/ideas were that have been implemented so far. It didnt seem like there was a whole lot of thinking going into these things - it appeared rather like a "that would be cool, lets try a way of bringing it into the game"..
For example, it is quite apparent that if marines dont build and dont weld, there is little to no team building going on. This is not really sth that needs to be playtested tbh. Same applies to the gorge.
Also, the multiple commander idea. I always thought UWE had some nice ideas to let multiple guys command the game simultaneously. But what we actually got is no multi-com implementation whatsoever. Its just 2 guys commanding (and getting in their way).
The tech trees. They should be simple yet deep, just like NS1. We ended up with arguably more complex tech trees with no apparent greater vision or gameplay fundamentals.
Now, all of these issues would've been okay if the game was on a tight schedule, but lets think about how much time UWE had to discuss/think about gameplay... I think you get my point.
If we're moving to short-range spikes again, any hope of getting away from "machine-gun" style delivery and instead switching to "shot-gun" style?
Basically, the lerk flies by, pukes up a bunch of high-velocity shrapnel, takes a moment or two to be able to do it again. That way there's a good chance that at high speed flight you'll be able to do at least a little bit of damage (maybe to a few guys), but if you're very good and are able to aim and time the shot right, do a massive amount of damage to a single guy. Say two point-blank hits to kill a vanilla marine if he doesn't heal at all.
Incidentally.. does anybody but me see how requiring a Crag to evolve to gorges and locking hives to a single type of chamber is a bad idea? It seems like that idea would lock alien strategy into crag first unless they're going for some sort of rush.
<!--quoteo(post=1847007:date=May 18 2011, 04:18 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ May 18 2011, 04:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847007"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The innovation of NS2 was taking it to much more of the 'appeal everyone' category. Also, a lot of the innovation you saw was at very sketchy level and didn't seem to play out very well in any context I understood. Like I've said before; it's not difficult to come up with seemingly innovative stuff, it's difficult to make it work in a meaningful way as a part of the gameplay. At least I was against some of the changes because they exactly seemed very Michael Bay'ish kind of big draws on the canvas without having any deeper meaning or details in them.
I'm not particularly fond of the revert to NS1 tech tree either, but I think it's better than basing the whole game on some gimmick that never had more than a rough sketch. Even if NS2 isn't apparently going to be as blazingly innovative as it first promised, it can still mix up the original concept through more subtle changes. If anything, the subtlety and ability to create enjoyment through smaller details are the things that the big mainstream gaming industry is lacking even more than innovation right now.
If NS2 sticks to the old and still fails to create new stuff through the smaller details I might give you that the innovation is gone, but I don't want to hop on to that bandwagon until the game actually finished. This is exactly why you don't do reviews until the game is actually done.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree with you Bac, and even with the proposed <strike>changes</strike> regressions there is still a lot NS2 has going for it, but it just seems like a lot of things that are now being abandoned just weren't iterated enough, so it looks like UWE is throwing in the towel prematurely. And that gives me a sad :(
I guess ya just gotta have faith.
<!--quoteo(post=1847050:date=May 18 2011, 10:08 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ May 18 2011, 10:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847050"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->First case: Porting the game entire, updating the graphics? Good idea. This could have been NS2. I would have paid for it. I would have played it.
Second case: Reworking the game, keeping the same spirit? Risky, but yields its own rewards. This would have been NS2; but it could very well have been NS3 being developed on the revenue from the aforementioned first case. That would have been a good move.
But <u>this</u>? What is this? This is neither. This was like an attempt to make the second case, which was then abandoned. Like a booming business city that suddenly flounders so we try to go back to the old ways, but we've still got all these half-finished skyscrapers dotting the city.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This was sort of my point. If they had stated that NS2 was to be NS1HD from the start, no one would have developed these apparently unreasonably expectations that left themfeeling disappointed or lied to right now.
<!--quoteo(post=1847065:date=May 18 2011, 10:48 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ May 18 2011, 10:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847065"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think it does, but the problem is that Whip Bombard is a gooey-looking ball, so I'm almost certain it <i>isn't</i> going to shoot through walls.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I wasn't necessarily implying that it should shoot through walls.
<!--quoteo(post=1842552:date=Apr 26 2011, 06:30 PM:name=KuBaN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KuBaN @ Apr 26 2011, 06:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1842552"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Will this be something static that the KharaaComm drops, like the creep nodes in SC2, or a moving AI entity that the commander can direct? If it's the latter, why not give Drifters a "deployed-mode" where they cannot hover but are forced to crawl, and spread infestation in their wake?
How do you ambush something that can teleport instantly? This seems like the farthest-from-intuitive weapon that should be taking down Fades. I figured Flamethrowers would be the weapon to deal with lifeforms that are too fast to shoot at (Fades, Lerk).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
same way you ambushed fades before, besides.. fades arent nearly as strong when you have a group. a couple of well placed shotgun blasts and fade is down. this is the reason why i question the removal of motion tracking though. storyline and gameplay wise it makes no sense for the marines to just stop using it. shade would be an effective counter just like cloak was in ns1. well see how it all works out when more features are added
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
So will the marines be able to damage the fade at all while he's blinking? I understand he won't be visible, but if you happen to predict the correct escape route and fire in that direction, will you damage the fade? I would hope so. But the new blink mechanic is exactly what was needed. This solves a bunch of issues. The biggest being that fades can now blink into the middle of a room (to attack a jetpack in flight, etc) rather than being limited to only solid structures. Bravo!
As for the fade "rush" idea. I don't like it. Like NS1, the skill is being able to combine blink and swipe together well. Blink is your fast movement...you don't need "rush" too.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
Liking the new ideas. Less sporadic, easier to control, less predictable teleports, and enables them to fight jetpack users and go into vents when fade crouch is implemented. Also it'd be quite immersive to rip into that plane of existence and rip out of it.
<!--quoteo(post=1844367:date=May 5 2011, 10:16 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ May 5 2011, 10:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844367"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also if you add a drifter/mac unit cap, it would be an extra incentive to secure another tech point.
2 macs per cs and 3 drifters per hive? With 1 additional drifter/mac per upgrade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i like seeing finally tackle the broken blink, but i'm confused how everything would work during combat. So I will hold my comments to see how this might actually work in-game but I do need to stress this, blink must be one click-button. It needs to be used quick under reaction time, but more importantly catch moving targets, based on what described I'm not sure it would work but we will see.
<!--quoteo(post=1846858:date=May 17 2011, 09:30 PM:name=Zoot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zoot @ May 17 2011, 09:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1846858"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What are the current gamebreaking aspects of the lerks flight/attack mechanics? I personally don't see them and definitely prefer the lerks current longer range attacks..if it ain't broke don't fix it or don't change things for the sake of changing them imo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The things that are "broken" regarding the lerk is that, for an alien with wings, he spends an awful lot of time sitting on the ground, or a ledge, shooting spikes from a distance. While we want to avoid the NS1 issue of him just having bite, and being like a skulk, it did get him flying around more. What we would like to see, and honestly was planned from the beginning, but just wasn't implemented this way so much in the first pass of the Lerk, was to give him ranged spikes, but with a very short falloff, so that, rather then sitting in a hallway shooting into a room he needs to be actively flying around.
By upping his rate of fire, and spike damage, but making the range short, the hope is that he will use more strafing tactics, flying through quickly, buzzing around marines and covering an area with spikes, or trailing spores, and flying out again. The flight will need to be improved to be easier to control.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
Fixes the need to render a ghost fade too. Although I hope they set up pressing the s or the backwards movement button to be an anchor so you can be more precise with the movement.
<!--quoteo(post=1847178:date=May 18 2011, 10:57 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ May 18 2011, 10:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847178"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So I will hold my comments to see how this might actually work in-game but I do need to stress this, blink must be one click-button. It needs to be used quick under reaction time, but more importantly catch moving targets, based on what described I'm not sure it would work but we will see.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, that is the proposed plan. The ghost fade model would get removed, and the blink would be back to a one click ability.
EDIT: hmm, the design doc is actually different from how we discussed it earlier, so its a bit different then a one click ability. Well, click and hold. --Cory
<!--quoteo(post=1847182:date=May 18 2011, 11:06 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ May 18 2011, 11:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847182"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The things that are "broken" regarding the lerk is that, for an alien with wings, he spends an awful lot of time sitting on the ground, or a ledge, shooting spikes from a distance. While we want to avoid the NS1 issue of him just having bite, and being like a skulk, it did get him flying around more. What we would like to see, and honestly was planned from the beginning, but just wasn't implemented this way so much in the first pass of the Lerk, was to give him ranged spikes, but with a very short falloff, so that, rather then sitting in a hallway shooting into a room he needs to be actively flying around.
By upping his rate of fire, and spike damage, but making the range short, the hope is that he will use more strafing tactics, flying through quickly, buzzing around marines and covering an area with spikes, or trailing spores, and flying out again. The flight will need to be improved to be easier to control.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this has been proposed before by Schcorpio, but what if the lerk entered into a "flight mode" when he double-tapped jump? The flight would be sort of like a helicopter, where he would stay hovering while not controlling him, flew upward when holding jump, down when holding duck and then all of the normal movement controls; and guiding direction with mouse look. It seems like he would be much easier to control like this.
<!--quoteo(post=1847185:date=May 19 2011, 01:08 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ May 19 2011, 01:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847185"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, that is the proposed plan. The ghost fade model would get removed, and the blink would be back to a one click ability.
EDIT: hmm, the design doc is actually different from how we discussed it earlier, so its a bit different then a one click ability. Well, click and hold. --Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually the ghostmodel could stay if it started to render it upon keypress, and teleported upon keyrelease.
Comments
I thought this was the direction the UWE was going with evolution. Allowing the player to customized their alien for individual play style or hive needs.
The innovation of NS2 was taking it to much more of the 'appeal everyone' category. Also, a lot of the innovation you saw was at very sketchy level and didn't seem to play out very well in any context I understood. Like I've said before; it's not difficult to come up with seemingly innovative stuff, it's difficult to make it work in a meaningful way as a part of the gameplay. At least I was against some of the changes because they exactly seemed very Michael Bay'ish kind of big draws on the canvas without having any deeper meaning or details in them.
I'm not particularly fond of the revert to NS1 tech tree either, but I think it's better than basing the whole game on some gimmick that never had more than a rough sketch. Even if NS2 isn't apparently going to be as blazingly innovative as it first promised, it can still mix up the original concept through more subtle changes. If anything, the subtlety and ability to create enjoyment through smaller details are the things that the big mainstream gaming industry is lacking even more than innovation right now.
If NS2 sticks to the old and still fails to create new stuff through the smaller details I might give you that the innovation is gone, but I don't want to hop on to that bandwagon until the game actually finished. This is exactly why you don't do reviews until the game is actually done.
I thought this was the direction the UWE was going with evolution. Allowing the player to customized their alien for individual play style or hive needs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That sounds interesting, but I would like it actually.
Maybe they could add in these upgrades in the alien buy menu.
I do like this though because adding in Unique types is awesome and made NS1 really really good. Please read that post UWE and have a little thinking session about it. I would love to see something like that happen.
Second case: Reworking the game, keeping the same spirit? Risky, but yields its own rewards. This would have been NS2; but it could very well have been NS3 being developed on the revenue from the aforementioned first case. That would have been a good move.
But <u>this</u>? What is this? This is neither. This was like an attempt to make the second case, which was then abandoned. Like a booming business city that suddenly flounders so we try to go back to the old ways, but we've still got all these half-finished skyscrapers dotting the city.
But hell, I'm just ranting. I still hope that UWE still moves back to the second case, or else just gives us the re-skinned NS1 we all crave (and hell, why not?). One thing must be said, though: Abort <u>this</u> [illegitimate]*-child.
*Why is b###### censored? It's not a swear-word.
I thought this was the direction the UWE was going with evolution. Allowing the player to customized their alien for individual play style or hive needs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this a lot, in NS1 a good lerk tactic was to gas the marines for a while and then go melee to finish a isolated weakened one. I've played NS1 recently and good lerks just rape marines, they are so fast and fly in the legs of the marines, come from top or behind, etc...
Now separating spore from melee would force two lerks to team up to do the same job. Buying two lerks at the same time could be cheaper and the lerks would come from a single egg :)
Infestation could provide LOS???<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it does, but the problem is that Whip Bombard is a gooey-looking ball, so I'm almost certain it <i>isn't</i> going to shoot through walls.
Well they have been waiting 2 years for a game, I'm giving them allowance to be melodramatic now.
For example, it is quite apparent that if marines dont build and dont weld, there is little to no team building going on. This is not really sth that needs to be playtested tbh. Same applies to the gorge.
Also, the multiple commander idea. I always thought UWE had some nice ideas to let multiple guys command the game simultaneously. But what we actually got is no multi-com implementation whatsoever. Its just 2 guys commanding (and getting in their way).
The tech trees. They should be simple yet deep, just like NS1. We ended up with arguably more complex tech trees with no apparent greater vision or gameplay fundamentals.
Now, all of these issues would've been okay if the game was on a tight schedule, but lets think about how much time UWE had to discuss/think about gameplay... I think you get my point.
Basically, the lerk flies by, pukes up a bunch of high-velocity shrapnel, takes a moment or two to be able to do it again. That way there's a good chance that at high speed flight you'll be able to do at least a little bit of damage (maybe to a few guys), but if you're very good and are able to aim and time the shot right, do a massive amount of damage to a single guy. Say two point-blank hits to kill a vanilla marine if he doesn't heal at all.
Incidentally.. does anybody but me see how requiring a Crag to evolve to gorges and locking hives to a single type of chamber is a bad idea? It seems like that idea would lock alien strategy into crag first unless they're going for some sort of rush.
I'm not particularly fond of the revert to NS1 tech tree either, but I think it's better than basing the whole game on some gimmick that never had more than a rough sketch. Even if NS2 isn't apparently going to be as blazingly innovative as it first promised, it can still mix up the original concept through more subtle changes. If anything, the subtlety and ability to create enjoyment through smaller details are the things that the big mainstream gaming industry is lacking even more than innovation right now.
If NS2 sticks to the old and still fails to create new stuff through the smaller details I might give you that the innovation is gone, but I don't want to hop on to that bandwagon until the game actually finished. This is exactly why you don't do reviews until the game is actually done.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with you Bac, and even with the proposed <strike>changes</strike> regressions there is still a lot NS2 has going for it, but it just seems like a lot of things that are now being abandoned just weren't iterated enough, so it looks like UWE is throwing in the towel prematurely. And that gives me a sad :(
I guess ya just gotta have faith.
<!--quoteo(post=1847050:date=May 18 2011, 10:08 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ May 18 2011, 10:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847050"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->First case: Porting the game entire, updating the graphics? Good idea. This could have been NS2. I would have paid for it. I would have played it.
Second case: Reworking the game, keeping the same spirit? Risky, but yields its own rewards. This would have been NS2; but it could very well have been NS3 being developed on the revenue from the aforementioned first case. That would have been a good move.
But <u>this</u>? What is this? This is neither. This was like an attempt to make the second case, which was then abandoned. Like a booming business city that suddenly flounders so we try to go back to the old ways, but we've still got all these half-finished skyscrapers dotting the city.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was sort of my point. If they had stated that NS2 was to be NS1HD from the start, no one would have developed these apparently unreasonably expectations that left themfeeling disappointed or lied to right now.
<!--quoteo(post=1847065:date=May 18 2011, 10:48 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ May 18 2011, 10:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847065"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think it does, but the problem is that Whip Bombard is a gooey-looking ball, so I'm almost certain it <i>isn't</i> going to shoot through walls.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wasn't necessarily implying that it should shoot through walls.
But then my argument breaks down. I bow out :)
How do you ambush something that can teleport instantly? This seems like the farthest-from-intuitive weapon that should be taking down Fades. I figured Flamethrowers would be the weapon to deal with lifeforms that are too fast to shoot at (Fades, Lerk).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
same way you ambushed fades before, besides.. fades arent nearly as strong when you have a group. a couple of well placed shotgun blasts and fade is down. this is the reason why i question the removal of motion tracking though. storyline and gameplay wise it makes no sense for the marines to just stop using it. shade would be an effective counter just like cloak was in ns1. well see how it all works out when more features are added
People must really want the Fade to change lol
As for the fade "rush" idea. I don't like it. Like NS1, the skill is being able to combine blink and swipe together well. Blink is your fast movement...you don't need "rush" too.
2 macs per cs and 3 drifters per hive? With 1 additional drifter/mac per upgrade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
never agreed with the fade being tier 2 only.
The things that are "broken" regarding the lerk is that, for an alien with wings, he spends an awful lot of time sitting on the ground, or a ledge, shooting spikes from a distance. While we want to avoid the NS1 issue of him just having bite, and being like a skulk, it did get him flying around more. What we would like to see, and honestly was planned from the beginning, but just wasn't implemented this way so much in the first pass of the Lerk, was to give him ranged spikes, but with a very short falloff, so that, rather then sitting in a hallway shooting into a room he needs to be actively flying around.
By upping his rate of fire, and spike damage, but making the range short, the hope is that he will use more strafing tactics, flying through quickly, buzzing around marines and covering an area with spikes, or trailing spores, and flying out again. The flight will need to be improved to be easier to control.
--Cory
Yes, that is the proposed plan. The ghost fade model would get removed, and the blink would be back to a one click ability.
EDIT: hmm, the design doc is actually different from how we discussed it earlier, so its a bit different then a one click ability. Well, click and hold.
--Cory
By upping his rate of fire, and spike damage, but making the range short, the hope is that he will use more strafing tactics, flying through quickly, buzzing around marines and covering an area with spikes, or trailing spores, and flying out again. The flight will need to be improved to be easier to control.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this has been proposed before by Schcorpio, but what if the lerk entered into a "flight mode" when he double-tapped jump? The flight would be sort of like a helicopter, where he would stay hovering while not controlling him, flew upward when holding jump, down when holding duck and then all of the normal movement controls; and guiding direction with mouse look. It seems like he would be much easier to control like this.
EDIT: hmm, the design doc is actually different from how we discussed it earlier, so its a bit different then a one click ability. Well, click and hold.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually the ghostmodel could stay if it started to render it upon keypress, and teleported upon keyrelease.