NS2 design decision log

NeoSniper

<!--quoteo(post=1847391:date=May 19 2011, 02:17 PM:name=Josh86)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josh86 @ May 19 2011, 02:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847391"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I too always wanted something like this! I posted this on getsatisfaction awhile ago, but no one really seemed to notice or care *shrugs*.

<a href="http://gsfn.us/t/1ylqv" target="_blank">http://gsfn.us/t/1ylqv</a>

From December, a little after the Fade got put in, I think...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From December you say? hmm...

Well Here's a little gem from July 2008 (almost 3 years ago). Which nearly exactly describes the new blink.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=104573&st=0&p=1684437&hl=fade&#entry1684437" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...p;#entry1684437</a>

And a more recent post pushing the same idea again from Jan 2010 (about year and a half ago)
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=108596&st=20&p=1747281&hl=fade%20blink&#entry1747281" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...p;#entry1747281</a>

I feel a bit like a ######bag for posting these links, but frak it! I've earned my time in the sun! :P

To the new Fade blink idea I say YES! A thousand times, YES!

<!--quoteo(post=1847400:date=May 19 2011, 03:00 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ May 19 2011, 03:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847400"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have trouble imagining how the fade idea works. The screen stretches and there is some special effect - cool. Then what? You fly to the location? Does that mean you go in a straight line? Is there a ghost model to show you where you would end up?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Think of it this way. Blink will FEEL sort of like the NS1 blink to the Fade. But will still look like the NS2 teleport blink to the marines (except with a small delay). Best of both worlds if you ask me.

jkflipflop

How will we go up and down and into vents? Will we be weightless while blinked?

Bacillus

Is fade supposed to have some kind of map travelling method? A couple of seconds of ethreal blink doesn't sound very efficient for that unless fade has very rapid adren regen.

Also, is fade going to be limited to one in-out blink per fight due to the very limited blink time?

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think that should be a dynamic left for the skulks and the lerks, after all they can now snipe so that will put jetpackers off being so free to run around knowing they can be hit from anywhere at anytime.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm not completely sure how well the skulks are going to work against jetpacks, it depends quite a bit on the JP flight model and leap adjustments. I'd say it's going to be challenging to get the same skulk leap to scale from vanilla early game marine into a late game jetpacker without something being overpowered on one end. Maybe extra upgrades to leap helps the scaling.

Edit: Heh, now to think of it, I'm not sure how well a fade is going to chase jetpackers with a couple of seconds of blink time either. You'd at least need to one shot them if medpacks are any option for the jetpacker. I think there might be need for a bit more adren conservative blink.

Sewlek

as i wrote before. i will be very difficult to adjust energy cost for this ability...

but if you hit the "correct" number as a dev you will be more happy :) and this ability sounds to me that
it will scale better with upgrades (like adrenaline, celerity, carapace, cloak, etc) than the previous

Align

Bacillus: if it keeps the forward momentum on exiting blink (I really hope it does) it should work out like in NS1 where you sort of skim along the ground, shouldn't it?

Soylent_green

<!--quoteo(post=1847493:date=May 19 2011, 08:58 PM:name=CaCa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CaCa @ May 19 2011, 08:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847493"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hate this regressive fade-blink concept.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

What does regressive mean in this context? The blink model we currently have in NS2 is the same one that was in the first public release of natural selection 1, except a bit less buggy.

Sewlek

then he hates this 'progressive' concept

Bacillus

<!--quoteo(post=1847532:date=May 20 2011, 09:10 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ May 20 2011, 09:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847532"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bacillus: if it keeps the forward momentum on exiting blink (I really hope it does) it should work out like in NS1 where you sort of skim along the ground, shouldn't it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Hmm, I guess it's possible. So, basically it would be like NS1 post 2.0 blink, but faster and with an 'ethreal charge' phase in the start?

I think I'm having a bit trouble seeing how NS2 physics are supposed to work. With NS1 physics I could see myself flying around and preserving the speed as long as there is something that gives me the starting speed, but so far NS2 has demonstrated very little tendency towards that.

But yeah, I think I got a bit better picture of how it might work now. I was thinking this too much through the present NS2 blink and it seemed somehow out of place. If they're willing to let the fade have aerial diving moments again it seems a lot more viable at least.

IeptBarakat

<!--quoteo(post=1847532:date=May 20 2011, 05:10 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ May 20 2011, 05:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847532"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bacillus: if it keeps the forward momentum on exiting blink (I really hope it does) it should work out like in NS1 where you sort of skim along the ground, shouldn't it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Would be funny/cool if the fade started grinding on the ground with metal sparks like a transformers movie when he unblinks with a lot of momentum.

CaCa

<!--quoteo(post=1847533:date=May 20 2011, 06:11 AM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soylent_green @ May 20 2011, 06:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847533"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What does regressive mean in this context? The blink model we currently have in NS2 is the same one that was in the first public release of natural selection 1, except a bit less buggy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That don´t count, son.

IeptBarakat

<!--quoteo(post=1847533:date=May 20 2011, 05:11 AM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soylent_green @ May 20 2011, 05:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847533"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What does regressive mean in this context? The blink model we currently have in NS2 is the same one that was in the first public release of natural selection 1, except a bit less buggy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--quoteo(post=1847538:date=May 20 2011, 06:15 AM:name=Schimmel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Schimmel @ May 20 2011, 06:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847538"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->then he hates this 'progressive' concept<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


It all makes sense now..

They're complaining that it isn't ns1 pre final!

Time to throw the fades into the phasegates. :V

Harimau

So... questions:
- Does this new implementation include the possibility that the fade can 'curve' when he blinks (if you move the mouse enough), so that it isn't always simply moving in a straight line. Because that would be pretty cool.
- Can the fade move vertically? Because that would be pretty cool.

Btw, guys, it's "disorienting". Orient, orienting, orientation. Disorient, disorienting, disorientation. I can understand how you can make the mistake, but you should set yourselves some higher standards, now that you know.

jkflipflop

<!--quoteo(post=1847587:date=May 20 2011, 10:52 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ May 20 2011, 10:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847587"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So... questions:
- Does this new implementation include the possibility that the fade can 'curve' when he blinks (if you move the mouse enough), so that it isn't always simply moving in a straight line. Because that would be pretty cool.
- Can the fade move vertically? Because that would be pretty cool.

Btw, guys, it's "disorienting". Orient, orienting, orientation. Disorient, disorienting, disorientation. I can understand how you can make the mistake, but you should set yourselves some higher standards, now that you know.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Wow! I just noticed you're from down under. You're the first.

kingmob

I'm still a fan of the new fade.

However I did think of something...
When a marine commander builds TURRETS on some larger crates
it is currently up to the FADE to blink on top of the larger crates to take it out.

just talking out loud.

luns

<!--quoteo(post=1847587:date=May 20 2011, 05:52 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ May 20 2011, 05:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847587"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So... questions:
- Does this new implementation include the possibility that the fade can 'curve' when he blinks (if you move the mouse enough), so that it isn't always simply moving in a straight line. Because that would be pretty cool.
- Can the fade move vertically? Because that would be pretty cool.

Btw, guys, it's "disorienting". Orient, orienting, orientation. Disorient, disorienting, disorientation. I can understand how you can make the mistake, but you should set yourselves some higher standards, now that you know.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

by curve you mean air control? like straight leaps pretty much.

their is no skill based movement, and air control or momentum in-game currently so much of the movement feels sluggish.
so yes, I do hope its added back into the game.

edit

I now wonder will this new blink help the fade finally use vents, and other such places? without actually seeing this blink method be used much cannot be said until its actually seen in-game. I just hope its as good as promised.

Zek

I love the new Blink idea, but I think you should be able to go through players and structures. Physically blocking a fade while he's shifted into another dimension doesn't make sense.

Align

Maybe he just turns invisible (like Cloak except better), and it has the side-effect of making his vision funky.

nadyli

Can we get aliens resources capped to 100 while we're at it?

IeptBarakat

Personal resources cap at 100 would be the best. (for both teams)

-less hoarding
-less med/ammo spam
-makes purchases/evolution have an impact

Game-Sloth

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Players get .25 res every 6 seconds<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please put a zero in front of the <!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->0.25<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
When I initially read the document I thought it said 25 res every 6 seconds

In line with the previous two posts, I agree that the resource cap need to be lower then 999
Med pack spam is becoming a game breaking problem at this stage. I am seeing stacks that reach the ceilings.

luns

res cap sounds fine to me, as for medpack spam. medpack spam is overpowering because medpacks restore armor, thats just insane. One person can solo dozen of aliens simply being medpack spammed, your armor/health instantly restored, pretty overpowering.

Zek

I don't think I like the idea of Swarm. If aliens are going to get a pack bonus it should be inherent IMO. Given a choice between an upgrade that depends on your teammates playing along and one that just buffs you directly, pub players will always choose the latter.

Jaweese

Yay for resource changes. This is exactly what I've been calling for and it should greatly improve the game.

NurEinMensch

Cap p_res at 100 for both teams imo. Excess res be divided among the other players. Oh yes and fix medpacks healing armor, that's just wrong.

peregrinus

How will these res changes effect the game I dont understand will it makes games faster with more structures? Right now it takes too long to build a base imo

swalk

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Btw, “metal” ”carbon” and “plasma” terms are officially gone (now just “team res” and “res”). Both are capped at 999.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Personal Resources should be capped at 100 to prevent stalemates!
When you have 999 personal res, which happens alot, you're not really careful if you die or not. You can just buy a new shotgun TONS of times..
At this point some players tend to suicide on getting harvesters(and buildings in general) down, ignoring enemy players. Thats okay, if they pay the price of not being able to afford a new weapon. Harvesters should btw. have a health buff! It's nearly impossible to reach them before they go down to a single marine.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think I like the idea of Swarm. If aliens are going to get a pack bonus it should be inherent IMO. Given a choice between an upgrade that depends on your teammates playing along and one that just buffs you directly, pub players will always choose the latter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Well, at most times i find that people actually work together, so i don't see the problem in a trade-off.

crae

<!--quoteo(post=1847630:date=May 20 2011, 07:19 PM:name=NurEinMensch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NurEinMensch @ May 20 2011, 07:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847630"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh yes and fix medpacks healing armor, that's just wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very wrong! That'll give us an excuse to get the welder back in the game.

Typhon

I agree with the others, 999 is way to high of a cap for res.

PsiWarp

Indeed, a personal resource cap is a good method to limit many types of spam in this game (Hydra, Medpack/Ammo, weapon purchase, etc.)

Codeine

I dont like the direction gorges and hive commanders are going, its reducing the players needed in the front lines.

full game, might have 2 hive commanders and 2-3 gorges....that doesn't leave much to the front line heirachy compared to marines, is this a concern?