<!--quoteo(post=1722893:date=Aug 14 2009, 05:55 PM:name=DroopyDaDog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DroopyDaDog @ Aug 14 2009, 05:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722893"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It doesn't change why it's better than having a seperate weapon slot, but +movement is a clear example of an even better answer than the alt-fire approach. It's a seperate key that works across all aliens and in all situations, not just as an alt-fire on specific weapons. While +movement is multipurpose and robust, alt-firing from the most common weapon seems like a half hearted afterthought solution in comparison.
Alt firing is a little better than weapon switching, +movement is significantly better than both and has even been tried and tested already. No-one who's used it can see any reason for it to regress to alt-fire because it worked so smoothly.
Quick fire example, alt-fire leap doesn't do squat to make xeno-leap more intuitive, +movement does.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> After reading this arguement I full agree with this DroppyDaDog, that has some good points that I never thought off. After all, my initial long winded post was before I was told that post NS 3.0 there is an actual bind-to-key leap.
<!--quoteo(post=1721103:date=Aug 6 2009, 08:37 PM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Aug 6 2009, 08:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721103"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Secondary bite should be more of a 'finishing' move once a marine gets into red health where you can drag him away.
1) The marine is relatively helpless, and the skulk can drag him into a vent (including whatever gun he was carrying). 2) The skulk can also have some fun with him by dangling him in doorways to warn approaching marines. 3) Marine would possibly be able to defend himself with taser, but it would only get the skulk off him if the skulk had low health.
Pros:
- Adds tons of atmosphere (how cool would it be to see a marine being dragged off into a vent by a couple of skulks giving him cover!) - Encourages skulks to work together since the skulk doing it would be relatively vulnerable to marine fire. - Reinforces that marines need to stick together with their squads, because it is incredibly risky to go alone. - If somebody is ramboing with a nice gun, they lose access to that dropped gun to the rest of their team due to the skulk making it inaccessible in a vent or some other inaccessible location. - Marine couldn't be dragged forever, even if he is able to free himself from the first skulk, it does damage to him when a skulk uses the ability. So if he was already in red he might not survive another drag attempt.
Cons:
- 10 seconds out of the game might be like the old Onos devour. Could compensate by giving the marine a chance to free himself with taser assuming the skulk is hurt enough. - Would it be "fun" for the marine being dragged? There is a definite comedic aspect to it (HELP ME HE'S TAKING ME! lol), but would it become boring for the marine? Allowing taser use gives him hope of escape. Would have to be tested to see if it was fun.
Overall it seems that it would be a natural extension to the standard 'bite' ability, while adding lots of fun for both players involved.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<u>Two things</u>:
First, a player must always have a means of a <i>chance</i> to defeat an opponent. It doesn't and shouldn't necessarily be a fair chance, but there should be something that a more skilled player can do to reduce the risk. Outside of that, yes I agree with you <b>aeroripper</b>.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>vote <!--coloro:#00DD00--><span style="color:#00DD00"><!--/coloro-->yes<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> to giving a root/slow/grapple attack a chance in the alpha playtest.
Second, where is xenocide? I love the idea of having alternate fire modes and leap being an always-present ability. (Hopefully people will stop running on the floors as much then, yes?) But where is xenocide? It was always an ability that took a lot of practice to get the timing down just right. Especially when pulling off leap-bite-xeno combo's. It takes some practice, but it was an ability that allowed the weakest class to become a guided-missile-like threat to be respected, especially when supported by a competent lerk that has already softened up the marine team with gas spores. Because of xenocide's one-hit-of-desperation nature, it always seemed to promote communication and coordination of the alien team to bring it to the fullness of its deadliness.
<u>Other thoughts</u>:
New, skulk and new concept art...
I LOVE IT!!!
Don't forget I haven't liked everything, namely the new Resource Tower; but the conceptualization of this fundamental alien class which will be seen in EVERY game is, thank goodness, excellent! And making leap an intrinsic ability... that's just... well... THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!
I hope you give us something nice for that missing alt-ability. I was thinking the grapple would be a nice deterrent for rambo style play. Are marines going to be overpowered when jumping over and over while shooting? It's hard to bite them in NS1 as a skulk. They should lower their weapons while jumping. In addition, I suggest a similar suggestion from a previous post. You could have the alt ability "jab" our long front legs (jab, not swipe) at their shins, leading to many possible outcomes of the marine's damage + incapacitate combos. If he just takes it, he takes more damage and his aim hinders a bit (He should moan in pain if he takes it like a man.) If he "rolls" with the strike, then he may be more dextrous and take less dmg, but he is actively moving/dodging/being displaced a bit in terms of his leg movement. This should alter his aim, but not completely render his gun useless. Perhaps, the marine could customize whether he "takes" blows like a man or tries to take less dmg and be less offensive in doing so... kinda like falling off a skateboard the correct way every time, get hwat I mean? you move more, break no bones. Else, you could just try and put your arm out there and move less, but since you didn't rol, you took more dmg. I like the idea of the marine customizing reactions to possible alien special attacks like this. would you rather take a 20 dmg blow with a mild disorient or would you rather take 2 damage blow, but you deal with a second or two of dextrous movement with inaccurate aim? maybe we could choose a balance? I like the idea of customizing how we could react to the alien attacks. Please, read this. Maybe you could do the same thing on the alien side? How aliens would react to certain marine actions you could implement? all these meters should be customizable in some easy to access menu, and it should have 3 choices each. You should be 1 way, the other way, or a nice balance of either.
I think I've said enough; This is just my creative suggestion on how you could make this game very deep and fun. Implementing ways to customize play style could be just what you need to push this game to the top in terms of quality.
<!--quoteo(post=1722900:date=Aug 14 2009, 11:19 AM:name=Rainseeker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rainseeker @ Aug 14 2009, 11:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722900"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The animations look good, but I'm just not sure about the size of the head. It almost seems too small for me. Can you guys try an iteration on us with a larger, more menacing, head?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Out of curiosity, I did a 60 second photoshop. I wasn't expecting it to come to anything, but the results didn't seem that bad. Surprised me. Anyway: <div align='center'><img src="http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6128/skulkbighead.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
looking at the concepts of the skulk, everytime i look at the legs, I cannot get past the fact how deadly the spikes look.
In NS1 leg spikes for the skulk only dealt (minimal) damage during a leap + contact, therefore why not flesh it out more in NS2?
☼ Here's my proposal ☼ Instead of a bite at the end of leap, let the skulk have a melee range (meaning short) leap with a leg spike jab that would inflict damage and knock the marine back some. The skulk is a fast, ambush type class. Needing to get in, do some damage, and retreat back into the shadows.
I would suggest a short "down-time" after the attack so that a player couldn't abuse this on a poor little marine.
That, or a headbutt... whatever floats the dev's boat.
<!--quoteo(post=1723034:date=Aug 15 2009, 03:37 PM:name=noncomposmentis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noncomposmentis @ Aug 15 2009, 03:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1723034"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Out of curiosity, I did a 60 second photoshop. I wasn't expecting it to come to anything, but the results didn't seem that bad. Surprised me. Anyway: <div align='center'><img src="http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6128/skulkbighead.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nicely done, I actually like that look quite a bit. The only problem is, when you go back to the animation, watch how the Skulk bites.. see how wide that separated jaw can open? A big-headed skulk like this would be smacking his jaw on the floor.
I've got an idea for a replacement for the parasite attack the skulk had in NS1.
It could be a spit or spine attack, similar to the NS1 parasite in that it is a low damage very accurate, instantaneous projectile, even at long ranges. Here is the kicker though, if shot at the body of a marine it does nothing except cause minor damage, however if it hits a marine in the head it will cause the damage, and additionally partially obscure the marines screen for a short time period (4-7 seconds). Getting hit multiple times in the head will further obscure the marines vision and consequently take longer to wear off. To clarify, getting hit once shouldn't entirely block the marine's vision, just cause a gooey smudge to appear on approximately 1/3rd to 1/5th of the screen, more hits means more smudges and a reset to the countdown timer for it wearing off. So potentially with enough headshots, the marine could be entirely blinded (which may require some tweaking as to how fast the skulks can fire the shot, how quick the recharge is, etc).
I can see this encouraging skulks to use the ability to either facilitate an escape or before an assault down a hallway to increases their chances of reaching the marine. Just keep in mind that only a headshot should hurt the marine's vision, and thus would require a lot of skill to use at any range and should prevent spamming to the point where it could blind a marine. Additionally the skulk could use this to annoy a marine, similar to how parasite worked in NS1 because of the small damage amount.
And ideas or suggestions for this? Thumbs up or thumbs down?
So skulk role, ambusher and so on fast concealing small nearly limitless in its movement and navigation of terrain.
I am under the impression that the nidus canal like kharra structure will still exist, port holes that allow kharra to travel rapidly through DI to pop out of other port holes.
if they dont exist this could make for a good ability.
Additionally you have left kharra in a particular place of venerability that takes away from its ambushing sneaky rapidity. in NS1 you have the brightly orange skulk roaming around, some of the maps creators allowed for some Infestation, mainly seen in most hive rooms, now the skin texture contrast of the skulk and the lurk gorge were that these small creatures were able to gain some amount of concealment, in hive rooms. yet roaming around the rest of the human made map you have a brightly orange skulk sticking out like dogs balls.
With DI in ns2 I think it would be highly appropriate to have skulks retain their similar texture and just that little more like the substance that they came from, as were now we are left with a blackish skulk creature on a orange back ground still saying shoot me, its new colour scheme how ever offers it more concealment in vents and maybe in the few odd dark corners. which claners and pros will light hack or map builders will tend to deter from, but the texture is still going to offer little to no help in 98% of maps.
Yes hopefully we will still have sensor chambers of something of equality that will provide cloak, but that's not the point I am getting at.
So back to the abilitys, id like to see a burrow like effect its yet defensive and also offensive, if used on DI should be near invisible, if used in non DI yes marine know its their but cant do much about it unless they have a flame thrower. additionally while burrowed as a alt fire being able to thrust your claws out of the ground in a pivot like radius like a lurker the upgrade from a hydrolisk in star craft brood wars would make for a interesting effect, being a wall of spikes that does damage controls movement by not allowing the marine to jump over it, offers up a large array of ambush like tactics, espy if cloaking remains in some form. from hive 2 having some skulks become a patch on the ground while other skulks claim leap vantage points offers new play styles and things to think about.
A running skulks gets cornered. he may or may not of taken a few hits but hes able to become one with the ground in a matter of second leaving the marines in a situation were they cant hurt him, need to call for a flame throw to get the kill or run off a leave him, perhaps setting up a electric tazor tether above him for if he trys to sneak out of the ground, grenades might hurt him a tiny bit too and will make for new option if the skulk is on say 10 hp he can still be finished off, for the skulk its offering him a vantage point to still spy on marines that cant hurt him a chance to have other aliens come help him and a new point to attack from in that situation, it could offer the needed damage to buildings, that make skulks chomping res a tedious task.
being a rapidly deployed state and easily packed up it wouldn't be the tediousness of a manned turret, and its melee state allows for it to still have the razor sharp touch if a marine is stupid enough to come in contact with it, from blocking off exit points to sealing off vents, funnelling bottle necks. less useful as offensive without cloak or when not on DI, but could make for a new way for kharra to gain ground as skulks leap frog over each other becoming a new puddle, espy if this allowed kharra hive mind to further grow more DI from him and around him. becoming a puddle on ceilings forcing marines to look up above doors or checking walls on ether side of a door arch so as not to get a skulk spike arm through their face.
I have changed my mind on the ability of skulks being able to heal them selves 60% of the kharra shouldn't beable to heal them selves with out hive ,chamber or gorge, upgrade or tediously slow innate ability. other wise your neutralising the effective use of those things and I agree it would be taking away from certain rapid motions and fluency of ns, stopping to get some health back would take away from time of gaining ground, getting to a new vantage point, bites on a structure or a second marine.
the way I see the new scouting from the kharra com working is. if a alien has line of sight on a marine the hive mind will be able to parasite the marine instead of adding more buttons and tasks to the skulk. hes still parasited every kharra is able to see him and track him, its just the com cant be every were at once to parasite every marine a kharra sees, yet he can spend more time marking buildings or getting the marine marked that the player may never of thought to mark with normal parasite as he leaps to his doom.
from new DI porting (nidus canal), skulks leaping out of port holes and burrowing to be come a wall of pivot spikes, as alien com is marking all they see with parasite, from skulks fleeing a large group and becoming a DI puddle by the skin of his teeth and being able to escape to a vent after the marine pass and forget about him. from being a cloaked skulk able to seal off a vent from a JP zipping around with a shotgun wasting everything in sight or time it right and impaling him with spikes till he bleeds out alone in the darkness of a air duct.
It would be akin to stepping on a land mine, and surviving barely due to a medic being their, but not being able to step through that area again knowing that its still their or their could be more that you need the correct tool for the job or risk death.
from leap frogging skulks or turning your back on a corridor for two second to hear a noise, turn around and see 3 DI patches on the ground, to go around a corner to find a few more DI patches to go to head back and find your now trapped by DI patches that are waiting skulks, to your realisation you were just herded like a lamb to the slaughter.
the ambushing skulk now with less celerity a bit more toughness and a brutishness leap, deterred from rampaging head long to his doom a evolution of ten years of failed cannon fodder that only the war torn vetrans have mastered and can do successfully, and will still master in ns2, are now offered another tool for all to use a ability fright with advantage, physical and neatly wrapped in a good old fashioned mind ######. allowing ambushing and team work to excel, working like a well oiled machine, but yet only provides a short reprieve against a well fitted and organised enemy. being no different from being pinned in a vent when your team needs you. each use of this ability could turn the tide of battle in any ones favour. from one less enemy to deal with or by escaping by your teeth from getting that extra kill from a silly marine who got too close, or having a silly skulk end up surrounded unless he has support.
additional things that would work with it, obviously healing in this state would be a tad over powered, but growing DI connecting it back to the rest of the DI and or dropping in a nidus port for skulk to flee if hes lucky, from offering up new vantage points, can a mobile siege cannon drive over a wall of spikes. how does a marine stop you from destroying buildings in this state will it do more damage to a building than a welder can heal it. can a flame thrower get their in time, does electrocuting the spike force them to retract for a brief period, can a siege be flipped in this way, can light buildings be flipped in this way, should siege damage skulks in this state if they can be seen, line of sighted. is a electric tether over sludge pool the best way to ensure they wont spike up or leave their state while your back is turned, should you put your back to one. how scary would it be ducking and crawling under it attached to the ceiling spikes barely inches from your face jarting out at you, your shot gun aimed directly at it if it try's to form a skulk again.
The grapple idea should be the alt fire for Xenoside not Bite personally. It makes sense to latch yourself on before killing yourself does it not. Plus the frantic save me save me screams would be epic. Asking as the grapple doesn't stop the marine moving it only slows them.
<!--quoteo(post=1723445:date=Aug 18 2009, 10:47 PM:name=Pyromatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pyromatic @ Aug 18 2009, 10:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1723445"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What about bhop? Can't imagine playing skulk without bhop... <3<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> As far as we know is they have leap from the get go, but how that mechanic now works is unknown.
Grapple: a marine could crouch once or multiple times to shake off a grappling skulk. A skulk flung off could take damage.
Parasite: maybe you could tie parasites into the spreading alien infestation/creep stuff. After dying, infestation could spread out of the corpse of a marine who had been infected. Maybe more parasites means more creep; maybe more infected time does. Maybe the parasite only creates creep if it kills the marine, or maybe only if the marine is not killed by an explosion.
?: does the alien commander get to see all infested areas? That could tie skulk scouting and the alien commander together.
Unfortunately I have no original ideas, so just commenting on what I like so far ...
I think the burrow idea is great for infected areas, until I started thinking about the skulk archetype, it is a hunter type creature so using it as a means of escape seems unlike the skulk. I still think it could be used for ambushing, but not hiding after getting it's b*tt kicked, it just seems waaay to annoying and rewards bad play. Mebe tie the ability to having full health? As for the grab idea, that is awesome, but you shouldn't be able to grab a live marine ... that is just annoying, but feeding into the skulk's hunter gatherer role, it was mentioned elsewhere in this that they could recycle rines for bio resources. Also I'm thinking the idea of grabbing a 'rine and pulling it into a vent, then waiting for a patrol to go by so as you can drop a dead body right in front of them would be funny. It would add an in-game ability similar to tagging, (including arranging rine bodies into phrases on the ground).
In short I vote for a limited burrow ability for infected areas iff you have full health, and a grab ability related to dead bodies for resource gathering or just for positional effect (spookiness or misdirection).
I heard about a skill based movement for skulks, i agree, and one thing i found awesome as a skulk once was when i really messed up a marines aim jumping side to side horizontally(yes off the walls basically) down a corridor as a skulk, the marine missed me many times and i tore him down when he went to reload. Sadly tho the jump is not really strong on the skulk especially with gravity forcing you to waste even more power aiming up, but this could be a skill based movement, and it would be pretty fun jumping off walls and latching onto other parts, but the way this is gonna be implemented will mean it would have to be easier to run around the map on walls then it was on ns1, because it was really easy to fall off.
I'm not particulary a fan of a 'spit' attack (which seems to similar to the gorge to me) that seems all the craze for a secondary bite attack. Grapple sounds good and I like the crouching to throw of the skulk idea, but here's mine instead (bit out-there I know, feel free to shoot it down):
The skulk is a primary ambusher, capable of jumping from vents and lunging from concealed locations. In the current form of NS2 it looks as if the skulk is going to be a bit larger than the old poodle size attack dog, meaning ambushing will be tricker to perform alone and teamwork will work out better. So my idea is to make the skulk have and ability that will work in tandum with every alien, from another skulk to a lerker or onos.
As a secondary bite attack, the skulk can do a tounge lash attack instead. It causes no damage, but if it connects the marine loses ~75% of their speed (would need to be tested to get an accurate %) and/or a % of their mouse speed (something low~10-25%). The skulk would lose ~90% of it's movement speed in the process but effectively stop a marine from either retreating, dodge or keeping up with team-mates. This would allow a second alien to attack the stricken marine before he can react. Of course the tounge 'grapple' would be moderately shortish range and only stay connected until the marine either gets attacked (the tounge lets go as his ally attacks) or a marine deals enough damage to the skulk.
In short tounge lash: -cripples the movement speed of a marine ~75%, -lowers their ability to retaliate via mouse aiming, -stops the skulks movement almost entirely, -tounge breaks under ranged fire, melee, or being attacked, -allows for a follow-up attack by allies.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1723445:date=Aug 18 2009, 07:47 AM:name=Pyromatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pyromatic @ Aug 18 2009, 07:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1723445"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What about bhop? Can't imagine playing skulk without bhop... <3<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Skulks have bhop. We don't know any specifics beyond that.
<!--quoteo(post=1724377:date=Aug 21 2009, 07:54 PM:name=noodleninja)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noodleninja @ Aug 21 2009, 07:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724377"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In short I vote for a limited burrow ability for infected areas<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Zerglinggggsss. Would be interesting if some sort of idea like this could be put in. Need some definite (and heavy) restrictions though, because it would eliminate the use for a lot of vent hiding and stuff like that, when you could just go underground. But, if toyed with, I think this could be interesting.
Comments
Alt firing is a little better than weapon switching, +movement is significantly better than both and has even been tried and tested already. No-one who's used it can see any reason for it to regress to alt-fire because it worked so smoothly.
Quick fire example, alt-fire leap doesn't do squat to make xeno-leap more intuitive, +movement does.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
After reading this arguement I full agree with this DroppyDaDog, that has some good points that I never thought off. After all, my initial long winded post was before I was told that post NS 3.0 there is an actual bind-to-key leap.
1) The marine is relatively helpless, and the skulk can drag him into a vent (including whatever gun he was carrying).
2) The skulk can also have some fun with him by dangling him in doorways to warn approaching marines.
3) Marine would possibly be able to defend himself with taser, but it would only get the skulk off him if the skulk had low health.
Pros:
- Adds tons of atmosphere (how cool would it be to see a marine being dragged off into a vent by a couple of skulks giving him cover!)
- Encourages skulks to work together since the skulk doing it would be relatively vulnerable to marine fire.
- Reinforces that marines need to stick together with their squads, because it is incredibly risky to go alone.
- If somebody is ramboing with a nice gun, they lose access to that dropped gun to the rest of their team due to the skulk making it inaccessible in a vent or some other inaccessible location.
- Marine couldn't be dragged forever, even if he is able to free himself from the first skulk, it does damage to him when a skulk uses the ability. So if he was already in red he might not survive another
drag attempt.
Cons:
- 10 seconds out of the game might be like the old Onos devour. Could compensate by giving the marine a chance to free himself with taser assuming the skulk is hurt enough.
- Would it be "fun" for the marine being dragged? There is a definite comedic aspect to it (HELP ME HE'S TAKING ME! lol), but would it become boring for the marine? Allowing taser use gives him hope
of escape. Would have to be tested to see if it was fun.
Overall it seems that it would be a natural extension to the standard 'bite' ability, while adding lots of fun for both players involved.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<u>Two things</u>:
First, a player must always have a means of a <i>chance</i> to defeat an opponent. It doesn't and shouldn't necessarily be a fair chance, but there should be something that a more skilled player can do to reduce the risk. Outside of that, yes I agree with you <b>aeroripper</b>.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>vote <!--coloro:#00DD00--><span style="color:#00DD00"><!--/coloro-->yes<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> to giving a root/slow/grapple attack a chance in the alpha playtest.
Second, where is xenocide? I love the idea of having alternate fire modes and leap being an always-present ability. (Hopefully people will stop running on the floors as much then, yes?) But where is xenocide? It was always an ability that took a lot of practice to get the timing down just right. Especially when pulling off leap-bite-xeno combo's. It takes some practice, but it was an ability that allowed the weakest class to become a guided-missile-like threat to be respected, especially when supported by a competent lerk that has already softened up the marine team with gas spores. Because of xenocide's one-hit-of-desperation nature, it always seemed to promote communication and coordination of the alien team to bring it to the fullness of its deadliness.
<u>Other thoughts</u>:
New, skulk and new concept art...
I LOVE IT!!!
Don't forget I haven't liked everything, namely the new Resource Tower; but the conceptualization of this fundamental alien class which will be seen in EVERY game is, thank goodness, excellent! And making leap an intrinsic ability... that's just... well... THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!
That made my day.
sincerely,
<b><!--coloro:#DD0000--><span style="color:#DD0000"><!--/coloro-->x5<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>
I think I've said enough; This is just my creative suggestion on how you could make this game very deep and fun. Implementing ways to customize play style could be just what you need to push this game to the top in terms of quality.
Out of curiosity, I did a 60 second photoshop. I wasn't expecting it to come to anything, but the results didn't seem that bad. Surprised me. Anyway:
<div align='center'><img src="http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6128/skulkbighead.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>
looking at the concepts of the skulk, everytime i look at the legs, I cannot get past the fact how deadly the spikes look.
In NS1 leg spikes for the skulk only dealt (minimal) damage during a leap + contact, therefore why not flesh it out more in NS2?
☼ Here's my proposal ☼
Instead of a bite at the end of leap, let the skulk have a melee range (meaning short) leap with a leg spike jab that would inflict damage and knock the marine back some.
The skulk is a fast, ambush type class. Needing to get in, do some damage, and retreat back into the shadows.
I would suggest a short "down-time" after the attack so that a player couldn't abuse this on a poor little marine.
That, or a headbutt... whatever floats the dev's boat.
<div align='center'><img src="http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6128/skulkbighead.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nicely done, I actually like that look quite a bit. The only problem is, when you go back to the animation, watch how the Skulk bites.. see how wide that separated jaw can open? A big-headed skulk like this would be smacking his jaw on the floor.
It could be a spit or spine attack, similar to the NS1 parasite in that it is a low damage very accurate, instantaneous projectile, even at long ranges. Here is the kicker though, if shot at the body of a marine it does nothing except cause minor damage, however if it hits a marine in the head it will cause the damage, and additionally partially obscure the marines screen for a short time period (4-7 seconds). Getting hit multiple times in the head will further obscure the marines vision and consequently take longer to wear off. To clarify, getting hit once shouldn't entirely block the marine's vision, just cause a gooey smudge to appear on approximately 1/3rd to 1/5th of the screen, more hits means more smudges and a reset to the countdown timer for it wearing off. So potentially with enough headshots, the marine could be entirely blinded (which may require some tweaking as to how fast the skulks can fire the shot, how quick the recharge is, etc).
I can see this encouraging skulks to use the ability to either facilitate an escape or before an assault down a hallway to increases their chances of reaching the marine. Just keep in mind that only a headshot should hurt the marine's vision, and thus would require a lot of skill to use at any range and should prevent spamming to the point where it could blind a marine. Additionally the skulk could use this to annoy a marine, similar to how parasite worked in NS1 because of the small damage amount.
And ideas or suggestions for this? Thumbs up or thumbs down?
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No_Eggs
So skulk role, ambusher and so on fast concealing small nearly limitless in its movement and navigation of terrain.
I am under the impression that the nidus canal like kharra structure will still exist, port holes that allow kharra to travel rapidly through DI to pop out of other port holes.
if they dont exist this could make for a good ability.
Additionally you have left kharra in a particular place of venerability that takes away from its ambushing sneaky rapidity.
in NS1 you have the brightly orange skulk roaming around, some of the maps creators allowed for some Infestation, mainly seen in most hive rooms, now the skin texture contrast of the skulk and the lurk gorge were that these small creatures were able to gain some amount of concealment, in hive rooms. yet roaming around the rest of the human made map you have a brightly orange skulk sticking out like dogs balls.
With DI in ns2 I think it would be highly appropriate to have skulks retain their similar texture and just that little more like the substance that they came from, as were now we are left with a blackish skulk creature on a orange back ground still saying shoot me, its new colour scheme how ever offers it more concealment in vents and maybe in the few odd dark corners. which claners and pros will light hack or map builders will tend to deter from, but the texture is still going to offer little to no help in 98% of maps.
Yes hopefully we will still have sensor chambers of something of equality that will provide cloak, but that's not the point I am getting at.
So back to the abilitys, id like to see a burrow like effect its yet defensive and also offensive, if used on DI should be near invisible, if used in non DI yes marine know its their but cant do much about it unless they have a flame thrower. additionally while burrowed as a alt fire being able to thrust your claws out of the ground in a pivot like radius like a lurker the upgrade from a hydrolisk in star craft brood wars would make for a interesting effect, being a wall of spikes that does damage controls movement by not allowing the marine to jump over it, offers up a large array of ambush like tactics, espy if cloaking remains in some form. from hive 2 having some skulks become a patch on the ground while other skulks claim leap vantage points offers new play styles and things to think about.
A running skulks gets cornered. he may or may not of taken a few hits but hes able to become one with the ground in a matter of second leaving the marines in a situation were they cant hurt him, need to call for a flame throw to get the kill or run off a leave him, perhaps setting up a electric tazor tether above him for if he trys to sneak out of the ground, grenades might hurt him a tiny bit too and will make for new option if the skulk is on say 10 hp he can still be finished off, for the skulk its offering him a vantage point to still spy on marines that cant hurt him a chance to have other aliens come help him and a new point to attack from in that situation, it could offer the needed damage to buildings, that make skulks chomping res a tedious task.
being a rapidly deployed state and easily packed up it wouldn't be the tediousness of a manned turret, and its melee state allows for it to still have the razor sharp touch if a marine is stupid enough to come in contact with it, from blocking off exit points to sealing off vents, funnelling bottle necks.
less useful as offensive without cloak or when not on DI, but could make for a new way for kharra to gain ground as skulks leap frog over each other becoming a new puddle, espy if this allowed kharra hive mind to further grow more DI from him and around him. becoming a puddle on ceilings forcing marines to look up above doors or checking walls on ether side of a door arch so as not to get a skulk spike arm through their face.
I have changed my mind on the ability of skulks being able to heal them selves 60% of the kharra shouldn't beable to heal them selves with out hive ,chamber or gorge, upgrade or tediously slow innate ability. other wise your neutralising the effective use of those things and I agree it would be taking away from certain rapid motions and fluency of ns, stopping to get some health back would take away from time of gaining ground, getting to a new vantage point, bites on a structure or a second marine.
the way I see the new scouting from the kharra com working is. if a alien has line of sight on a marine the hive mind will be able to parasite the marine
instead of adding more buttons and tasks to the skulk. hes still parasited every kharra is able to see him and track him, its just the com cant be every were at once to parasite every marine a kharra sees, yet he can spend more time marking buildings or getting the marine marked that the player may never of thought to mark with normal parasite as he leaps to his doom.
from new DI porting (nidus canal), skulks leaping out of port holes and burrowing to be come a wall of pivot spikes, as alien com is marking all they see with parasite, from skulks fleeing a large group and becoming a DI puddle by the skin of his teeth and being able to escape to a vent after the marine pass and forget about him. from being a cloaked skulk able to seal off a vent from a JP zipping around with a shotgun wasting everything in sight or time it right and impaling him with spikes till he bleeds out alone in the darkness of a air duct.
It would be akin to stepping on a land mine, and surviving barely due to a medic being their, but not being able to step through that area again knowing that its still their or their could be more that you need the correct tool for the job or risk death.
from leap frogging skulks or turning your back on a corridor for two second to hear a noise, turn around and see 3 DI patches on the ground, to go around a corner to find a few more DI patches to go to head back and find your now trapped by DI patches that are waiting skulks, to your realisation you were just herded like a lamb to the slaughter.
the ambushing skulk now with less celerity a bit more toughness and a brutishness leap, deterred from rampaging head long to his doom a evolution of ten years of failed cannon fodder that only the war torn vetrans have mastered and can do successfully, and will still master in ns2, are now offered another tool for all to use a ability fright with advantage, physical and neatly wrapped in a good old fashioned mind ######. allowing ambushing and team work to excel, working like a well oiled machine, but yet only provides a short reprieve against a well fitted and organised enemy. being no different from being pinned in a vent when your team needs you. each use of this ability could turn the tide of battle in any ones favour. from one less enemy to deal with or by escaping by your teeth from getting that extra kill from a silly marine who got too close, or having a silly skulk end up surrounded unless he has support.
additional things that would work with it, obviously healing in this state would be a tad over powered, but growing DI connecting it back to the rest of the DI and or dropping in a nidus port for skulk to flee if hes lucky, from offering up new vantage points, can a mobile siege cannon drive over a wall of spikes. how does a marine stop you from destroying buildings in this state will it do more damage to a building than a welder can heal it. can a flame thrower get their in time, does electrocuting the spike force them to retract for a brief period, can a siege be flipped in this way, can light buildings be flipped in this way, should siege damage skulks in this state if they can be seen, line of sighted. is a electric tether over sludge pool the best way to ensure they wont spike up or leave their state while your back is turned, should you put your back to one. how scary would it be ducking and crawling under it attached to the ceiling spikes barely inches from your face jarting out at you, your shot gun aimed directly at it if it try's to form a skulk again.
Asking as the grapple doesn't stop the marine moving it only slows them.
Can't imagine playing skulk without bhop...
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Can't imagine playing skulk without bhop...
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As far as we know is they have leap from the get go, but how that mechanic now works is unknown.
Parasite: maybe you could tie parasites into the spreading alien infestation/creep stuff. After dying, infestation could spread out of the corpse of a marine who had been infected. Maybe more parasites means more creep; maybe more infected time does. Maybe the parasite only creates creep if it kills the marine, or maybe only if the marine is not killed by an explosion.
?: does the alien commander get to see all infested areas? That could tie skulk scouting and the alien commander together.
I think the burrow idea is great for infected areas, until I started thinking about the skulk archetype, it is a hunter type creature so using it as a means of escape seems unlike the skulk. I still think it could be used for ambushing, but not hiding after getting it's b*tt kicked, it just seems waaay to annoying and rewards bad play. Mebe tie the ability to having full health? As for the grab idea, that is awesome, but you shouldn't be able to grab a live marine ... that is just annoying, but feeding into the skulk's hunter gatherer role, it was mentioned elsewhere in this that they could recycle rines for bio resources. Also I'm thinking the idea of grabbing a 'rine and pulling it into a vent, then waiting for a patrol to go by so as you can drop a dead body right in front of them would be funny. It would add an in-game ability similar to tagging, (including arranging rine bodies into phrases on the ground).
In short I vote for a limited burrow ability for infected areas iff you have full health, and a grab ability related to dead bodies for resource gathering or just for positional effect (spookiness or misdirection).
I heard about a skill based movement for skulks, i agree, and one thing i found awesome as a skulk once was when i really messed up a marines aim jumping side to side horizontally(yes off the walls basically) down a corridor as a skulk, the marine missed me many times and i tore him down when he went to reload. Sadly tho the jump is not really strong on the skulk especially with gravity forcing you to waste even more power aiming up, but this could be a skill based movement, and it would be pretty fun jumping off walls and latching onto other parts, but the way this is gonna be implemented will mean it would have to be easier to run around the map on walls then it was on ns1, because it was really easy to fall off.
The skulk is a primary ambusher, capable of jumping from vents and lunging from concealed locations. In the current form of NS2 it looks as if the skulk is going to be a bit larger than the old poodle size attack dog, meaning ambushing will be tricker to perform alone and teamwork will work out better. So my idea is to make the skulk have and ability that will work in tandum with every alien, from another skulk to a lerker or onos.
As a secondary bite attack, the skulk can do a tounge lash attack instead. It causes no damage, but if it connects the marine loses ~75% of their speed (would need to be tested to get an accurate %) and/or a % of their mouse speed (something low~10-25%). The skulk would lose ~90% of it's movement speed in the process but effectively stop a marine from either retreating, dodge or keeping up with team-mates. This would allow a second alien to attack the stricken marine before he can react. Of course the tounge 'grapple' would be moderately shortish range and only stay connected until the marine either gets attacked (the tounge lets go as his ally attacks) or a marine deals enough damage to the skulk.
In short tounge lash:
-cripples the movement speed of a marine ~75%,
-lowers their ability to retaliate via mouse aiming,
-stops the skulks movement almost entirely,
-tounge breaks under ranged fire, melee, or being attacked,
-allows for a follow-up attack by allies.
Can't imagine playing skulk without bhop...
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Skulks have bhop. We don't know any specifics beyond that.
Zerglinggggsss. Would be interesting if some sort of idea like this could be put in. Need some definite (and heavy) restrictions though, because it would eliminate the use for a lot of vent hiding and stuff like that, when you could just go underground. But, if toyed with, I think this could be interesting.