Only way it could work for me would be as a mid-to-late game ability. And I think it should only work when hitting the marine from the back (like TF2 spy back stab). There you only need a single animation of a skulk backpack.
I think you manage to ambush a lone marine from the back you could cling for a set amount of time where you do no damage but shake the Marine view (a little bit!). Yet if the marine doesn't not manage to knock you off before the time is done he dies (Could also work with damage-over-time).
Any damage to the skulk knocks him off. However the marine needs a skilled way to knock the skulk off if alone. Like throwing at grenade at your feet or...
link two transponders at opposite side of a hallway to make and electric arc and walk through it in reverse. Hah! Would be and awesome mechanic
<!--quoteo(post=1721339:date=Aug 7 2009, 07:13 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Aug 7 2009, 07:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721339"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. Beef up the damage to make it a more offensive tool for the skulk, no other effect than damage. Obviously this shouldn't be the main skulk weapon. The damage should still be low, but enough to hinder a marine hit by several parasites.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think that might hurt gorge's position as the early ranged support. If skulks gain more ranged ability, gorge might need a few new tricks too or it will be degraded even more into healing duty. I like how the present system encourages picking at least one support gorge to add some diversion to the alien early game.
Focus fire from a few 15+ dmg instahit weapons might be surprisingly powerful against unarmored marines. I don't know whether that is a good or bad thing.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. The parasite doesn't give the aliens in the field any scouting advantages, but helps the alien commander. A parasited marine would show up the same way motion tracking shows up on the commander's screen in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this one more. It gives skulk some purpose for the late game.
If grab is the way to go for skulk altfire , don't make it affect marine mobility. Instead , the skulk would completely stick to the marine model and follow its viewpoint , depending on the initial impact spot. If possible , enable the marine to shake it off by bumping into walls from the right angle (like scraping from a corner) with some force. Realistic physics would definitely pay off there. This also favors sneaky skulks in wide open spaces , where marines usually have the advantage even alone.
This thread is a great illustration of the multitude of points which were raised as to why you should ignore community feedback after the Tasergate scandal.
@ devs - Skulk looks awesome as do the vents, bringing back some form of low damage long range taunting ability would be a very good idea. Keep up the good work :).
<!--quoteo(post=1721346:date=Aug 7 2009, 01:33 PM:name=NeoSniper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoSniper @ Aug 7 2009, 01:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721346"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Seriously? I disagree completely with your point of view and also with the fact that you ranted for so long in that post without really saying what you didn't like about the skulk update.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I did in several threads but they don't care about what we, the veteran community read constie, think about those crappy changes. We preordered massively the first day but after the first "reveal" lot of people raged so, may I get a refund? GG
<!--quoteo(post=1721392:date=Aug 8 2009, 12:14 AM:name=C4K3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (C4K3 @ Aug 8 2009, 12:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721392"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I did in several threads but they don't care about what we, the veteran community read constie, think about those crappy changes. We preordered massively the first day but after the first "reveal" lot of people raged so, may I get a refund? GG<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Speak for yourself. I and probably the majority of the community want a new game and NOT just NS1 with better graphics. I don't agree with everything they come up with, but we haven't seen how the changes affect gameplay. And you could have known that NS2 will be different long before they started to take pre-orders.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bite With his powerful multi-hinged jaws, he can deliver a lot of damage very quickly. As in NS1, the Skulk player's view is from inside his mouth (is this really that controversial or weird?).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know if it was said but here it is. I hate the teeth in the screen. Any clanner hates it. I can't remember anyone who didn't try to get rid of it. I understand it is made to hide some laggy effect. Who never pass trough (litterally) a marin while biting it (yes 'IT' is my porc chop, i'm t3h beast over here!)??? So i guess one of the popular clan config main trick will probably include that kind of 'tweak'. Please just remove that.
I'd rather see a moving nose in the lower section of the screen while biting than that.
*Design Nose: The divided jaws is a good idea. More of an alien type thing (movie etc..) In the mean time the curved nose (top one) doesn't look like the one of a predator. Sharp lines always fit predators.
Legs: i understand devs stand with the original NS, but in the mean time this kind of claws doesn't seem logic for getting glued on a cieling. Or use stealth. It's like trying to move like a ninja with tap dance shoes... tic tic tic tic...
Maybee a little more 'stealth cat' style for the walking. I mean, ambush is one of the main ingredient.
Don't get me wrong, i like it. But details like that bring a lot to the atmosphere.
<!--QuoteBegin-"Razagal"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ("Razagal")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Speak for yourself. I and probably the majority of the community want a new game and NOT just NS1 with better graphics<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Speaking for myself, all I ever wanted from NS2 was a better engine, updated graphics, perhaps some mechanics changes for balancing and finally, a renewed community to enjoy it with. I don't particularly hate the fact that the team is going in new and interesting directions, but I haven't exactly seen/heard of anything that blows my mind away yet. And I don't mind that all of these new characters are coming in spamming their ideas for what NS2 should be like, but NS1 was pretty much perfect in my mind. Original or not, it was beautiful, and I can see where all the controversy for the new game play changes comes from.
I also however, don't like this veteran mentality. IMO, there is no difference between someone who has experienced NS1 for less than a year and someone who has experienced NS1 since its small beginnings. Same goes for the Pubber vs. non-Pubber difference line. Being a veteran or a non-Pubber doesn't mean you should get any more or any less say in the final product. Its not like playing NS1 in a different server environment (how different is up to debate) or how long playing has given you some perfect and clear insight into how the new game should be, so please for the sake of the community. Stop it.
I don't think I've really mentioned my opinion on the actual Skulk. I don't really like the model for it. Everyone is saying how awesome it is that he looks meaner, but that wasn't usually what the skulk was for. If you wanted to survive as a non-super Skulk in NS Classic, you typically had to set up an ambush with a few other team mates or you hid behind corners, crouch walked - either way your goal was to be the silent killer most of the time. There are situations where this isn't always the case - if they're outside the Hive setting up a siege being stealthy will likely end the game, for example, but this was usually how it was. Getting around quickly, as quietly as possible and getting Marines when they least suspect it.
Now I'm fine with Parasite, or at least the mechanics of parasite, being removed, but one part of being a Skulk that I enjoyed was playing mind games with a group of marines. Hiding on the roof, and sniping at them with my parasite. I'd run around them, hitting them from different directions and when they got into a good position (or bad position, from their perspective) I'd likely go in for some damage. Parasite was also useful for taking down Marines when their health was low, especially at the beginning of the game. What was it, something like Bite, Bite, Para?
I'm happy that most of the rest of the mechanics have been left unchanged. The bite camera is what made the Skulk, the Skulk and was one of the things that made me play NS1 in the first place. Sure, it might not have been original, but at the time that it game out it was for me. I haven't seen a game use it accept for one of the AvP games, but really, if you're going to claim that the bite camera should absolutely go because a couple of other games have it and therefore its no longer original then perhaps you should take a look at EVERY OTHER FPS and EVERY OTHER RTS and EVERY OTHER MMO out there, because you'll find similarities in all of them.
So if the Parasite has to go, I'm fine with that, but just replace it with an equally useful ranged attack - and by ranged attack I don't mean a grappling hook.
<!--quoteo(post=1721405:date=Aug 8 2009, 09:07 AM:name=Dalin Seivewright)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dalin Seivewright @ Aug 8 2009, 09:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721405"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think I've really mentioned my opinion on the actual Skulk. I don't really like the model for it. Everyone is saying how awesome it is that he looks meaner, but that wasn't usually what the skulk was for. If you wanted to survive as a non-super Skulk in NS Classic, you typically had to set up an ambush with a few other team mates or you hid behind corners, crouch walked - either way your goal was to be the silent killer most of the time. There are situations where this isn't always the case - if they're outside the Hive setting up a siege being stealthy will likely end the game, for example, but this was usually how it was. Getting around quickly, as quietly as possible and getting Marines when they least suspect it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not going to tell you that your opinion of the Skulk is wrong. However you say he doesn't look good because he looks meaner when he was always the silent-killer, a stealthier kind of class. Remember that the Skulk is being changed, becoming minimally stronger but not losing his role as the silent assassin. Therefore visual aids must be put in place to accompany this evolution into a stronger Skulk. I know you would prefer he wasn't changed at all, with just updated graphics and keeping his already sound abilities. However there are many people that would disagree with you, if NS2 was just a rehash of NS1, there would be a lot of negative criticisms. NS2 uses the same formula as NS1, while adding and changing different gameplay mechanics. The balance is getting the new to work with the old. You can't have all of both.
The reality is that there should have already been a rehash of NS out on the source engine. It wouldn't have been hard to port the game to source as a way to sustain the community in 2005-6. Community management has never been unknownworld's strength.
I hate the bitecam because it is terrible and uncreative. It's also slightly disorienting for new players. Something that raises the learning curve. In this case, there is no corresponding advantage to be gained later(as is the case with advanced movement skill). You just get used to it. People that have NOSTALGIC memories of NS are EMOTIONALLY attached to it. That's fine.
Remember that this game is going to have gems like MOBILE SIEGES. Hell, we don't even know if there is going to be jetpacks.
What's most disturbing to me is HOW LONG it takes them to get simple tasks done. Does it REALLY take over a month to get ONE MODEL with rudimentary animations completed?
<!--QuoteBegin-"Opprobrious"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ("Opprobrious")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What's most disturbing to me is HOW LONG it takes them to get simple tasks done. Does it REALLY take over a month to get ONE MODEL with rudimentary animations completed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They likely have already finished the models and animations, or putting the final touches on them - what they're doing is PR Management, and keeping newcomers hooked, waiting for the next sneak peak release. I wouldn't be surprised if much of the Alpha is actually just being finalized, and only the tools need to be polished somewhat (which is what was mentioned earlier on one of the tweets, AFAIR.)
<!--quoteo(post=1721430:date=Aug 7 2009, 10:20 PM:name=Opprobrious)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opprobrious @ Aug 7 2009, 10:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721430"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Does it REALLY take over a month to get ONE MODEL with rudimentary animations completed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Probably. This is an indie game aiming for AAA quality.
<!--quoteo(post=1721430:date=Aug 7 2009, 08:20 PM:name=Opprobrious)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opprobrious @ Aug 7 2009, 08:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721430"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The reality is that there should have already been a rehash of NS out on the source engine. It wouldn't have been hard to port the game to source as a way to sustain the community in 2005-6. Community management has never been unknownworld's strength.
I hate the bitecam because it is terrible and uncreative. It's also slightly disorienting for new players. Something that raises the learning curve. In this case, there is no corresponding advantage to be gained later(as is the case with advanced movement skill). You just get used to it. People that have NOSTALGIC memories of NS are EMOTIONALLY attached to it. That's fine.
Remember that this game is going to have gems like MOBILE SIEGES. Hell, we don't even know if there is going to be jetpacks.
What's most disturbing to me is HOW LONG it takes them to get simple tasks done. Does it REALLY take over a month to get ONE MODEL with rudimentary animations completed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What's most disturbing to me is how people with no experience can think they have any idea what an appropriate length of time to craft something would be.
As for bitecam, I found it very creative. Far more creative than eyes over weapon, which is the default for basically everything else.. including in NS. What were you hoping for? Eyes under weapon? The momentary blindness it applies is part of the immersion in my view, as this thing is biting with such force that everything else is forgotten. Go ahead.. try ripping a chunk off a carrot or something, see if you don't squint just a little while doing it. So to me, the "blink" that occurs conveys a sense of power.
Of all the things in NS that I found disorienting when I started, bitecam isn't even on the list. Lerk flight is. Figuring out some of the maps and getting to a waypoint was. Being suddenly dropped into a suit of heavy armor for the first time and my view bumping up a bit.. that was disorienting. Bitecam? Not at all. After playing a bit, I looked around and had the thought everyone does.. "So I'm looking through this things mouth? What are the eyes for?" but that was shrugged off as a graphical thing. Gameplay was fine.
I know clanners don't like it because it obstructs their view, but then again, we're talking about people who will turn off ambient sounds, remove various graphical goodies, and who more or less are willing to strip the game down to basic sprites if that gives them competitive advantage. That's fine, for them. Let them do that. Leave the immersion for the rest of us.
<!--quoteo(post=1721430:date=Aug 7 2009, 09:20 PM:name=Opprobrious)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opprobrious @ Aug 7 2009, 09:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721430"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What's most disturbing to me is HOW LONG it takes them to get simple tasks done. Does it REALLY take over a month to get ONE MODEL with rudimentary animations completed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You really have no clue how to work PR building up to a release, do you? Do you think Blizzard has only ever run 3 test battles in Starcraft 2 just because only 3 battle reports have been posted? Do you think they only have 3 classes even started for Diablo 3 just because we've only seen concept art and footage of 3 of them?
The reality is that Unknown Worlds is waiting to show us stuff until they are 100% ready to show it. If they showed us the concept art for a Lerk now, people would ######. If they told us the Gorge weapons/abilities tomorrow, people would ######. If they showed us all the animations for the Fade, people would ######. If they showed us the current state of the maps, people would ######. If they gave us the game tomorrow, people would ######.
These sorts of trailers are called "teasers" for a reason. They're not supposed to be substantial, they're supposed to curb excitement and keep people checking back for that next tidbit.
<!--quoteo(post=1721430:date=Aug 7 2009, 09:20 PM:name=Opprobrious)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opprobrious @ Aug 7 2009, 09:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721430"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What's most disturbing to me is HOW LONG it takes them to get simple tasks done. Does it REALLY take over a month to get ONE MODEL with rudimentary animations completed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You saw the skulk model in game when the teaser was released a while ago. It just took them this long to make one video, duh!
Not so sure about the leap being the alt fire with bite at the end of it...
I would not liked to be locked into the timing that ns2 dictates for my leap + bite. For instance sometimes one needs to bite in the middle of the leap!
Anyway it would get quite annoying to hear the bite noise after every leap.
<!--quoteo(post=1721056:date=Aug 6 2009, 06:41 PM:name=IronFist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IronFist @ Aug 6 2009, 06:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721056"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just a general observation: it'd be great if alt-fire could eat or sap a dead body for small amounts of replacement HP (or set it up so you can drag a body at ~30% speed to make it spookier as skulks drag off bodies to eat on with regular jaw attack). This is really cool in Hidden: Source.
This makes me wonder how dealing with dead bodies is going to take place. I guess you may be doing it like TF2 where the models stick around as long as possible so long as you're in visible range, but for an idea involving the use of the bodies, it might be better to throw some nanites in there and have bodies disintegrate based on the total number of "bodies in the area" and a time factor (not much unlike Quake3 or the Crysis suit). I guess there's also the issue of keeping the ragdoll physics of bodies synchronized without lag... you don't see that done server-side much in other games it seems.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why not give the Skulk the Lerk's old Lerk Spike ability. Reduce the damage or up the adrenaline cost to avoid them being long range snipers, but it would give the skulk a distance weapon.
<!--quoteo(post=1721430:date=Aug 8 2009, 12:20 PM:name=Opprobrious)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opprobrious @ Aug 8 2009, 12:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721430"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The reality is that there should have already been a rehash of NS out on the source engine. It wouldn't have been hard to port the game to source as a way to sustain the community in 2005-6. Community management has never been unknownworld's strength.
What's most disturbing to me is HOW LONG it takes them to get simple tasks done. Does it REALLY take over a month to get ONE MODEL with rudimentary animations completed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are in no position to criticise how long it may take different game developers to create and get different assets working. This is an Indie game with a very small team, they are doing an amazing job. So think about the position you are in, before telling them how "it wouldn't be hard to port the game to source" and that it "should have been done already". Realise that they are focusing on creating a game that is meant to be above average, and from seeing what they have done I have no doubt it will be a superb game. And what makes you think they were JUST working on the Skulk for the past month. For christ's sake just think about what you're saying before posting. Rudimentary animations? It may just be running, walking, biting and leaping but they are amazing animations. The quality is very important, not just the quantity. Show some respect.
On another note. I think the Skulk is looking absolutely fantastic. It looks strong, yet agile. Highly mobile, yet able to hold its ground. Brutal, yet silent. This Skulk looks like it could eat through a resource tower using its powerful jaws. When the Skulk runs it reminds me of a large cat. The Skulk has many features of the Onos yet still looks so unique. My new favourite alien, but if the quality is this superb for the rest of the aliens, I will not be able to choose! Keep up the brilliant work. I am on the edge of my seat to see what you have done with the other aliens.
<!--quoteo(post=1721072:date=Aug 6 2009, 08:07 PM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (schkorpio @ Aug 6 2009, 08:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721072"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->for alt fire - perhaps some kind of stealth/concentration ability - where the skulks is completely silent, and marines are somehow highlighted - you would hold down the alt fire, to charge it up, it lasts for say 5-10 seconds - kinds of like when snipers hold their breath. but then when released it makes a loudish snarl or breathing sound - so you can use it to enhance your stealth but if you waste your opportunity it could give your location away - and also freak the hell out of marines!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like that idea as long as the focus makes you move =< marine speed. That way, it would be a fun way to sneak up on slowly advancing marines, but risky if they moved away too fast and it runs out with that howl. Plus, it could also be used to scare/lure/distract marines if used out-of-combat and add to the tension. Having leap be secondary would also work now that you always have it.
Just to add my own wild idea: what if it was a backstab attack. Basically, an attack effective against the back of marines (leg-spike stab!) but very reduced against front, and either way longish after-use delay so if you miss or he turns around you would have been better off biting. This attack goes well with the sneaky, fast assassin theme of the skulk.
Maybe too deadly for a fast moving wall hugging skulk? Instead of doing increased damage, perhaps it should do something else on a successful backstab. Maybe a dot, maybe temporary speed reduce, maybe it makes the marine fire wildly temporarily doing friendly fire damage.
Maybe backstab = bite damage, but if you finish a low health marine off you get health back? As a way of ambushing a lone marine after a fight and then not having to go back to hive for healing. Or maybe you latch onto the dead marine's back , dead player goes to respawn and all that but his body remains upright and the skulk implants feeders into the back of the poor guy's head and takes over his brain. You could use the marine's abilities against the others for a change, perhaps limited time and of course the other marines can shoot you or the marine's body to death. This doesn't inconvenience the marine player because he died fair and square and doesn't have to wait to go to respawn queue, the alien just becomes a marine for a little bit that's all.
I think that any secondary attack that the skulk gets should not allow a skulk to be overpowered against a marine in a 1v1 situation. At the moment a better marine can beat a better skulk and vice versa but if there was a grapple attack any noob skulk could grapple a marine and kill him.
I know that the grapple style ideas would promote team work on marines blah blah but it shouldn't be IMPOSSIBLE for a marine to go solo or go ahead of the pack for a bit.
I'm in favour of a ranged attack with very low damage perhaps almost the same as parasite because it was a really important skill for goading marines.
Another possibility I like is the idea of a charged up spit that damages structures. This is because it seems like the taser will allow marines to kill structures more quickly if they are uninterrupted so the skulk should get a similar sort of upgrade that balances it out.
Also + no. whatever to having no disorientation abilities.
IMO anything that is quite annoying like that ruins gameplay. As has been said before flashbangs in cs are about the limit of disorientation.
<!--quoteo(post=1721450:date=Aug 8 2009, 02:16 PM:name=Opprobrious)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opprobrious @ Aug 8 2009, 02:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721450"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm laughing my ass off at all the mindless fanbois running to defend unknownworlds.
You are now aware that the dynamic infestation video was released almost 3 full years ago.
THEY ARE STILL WORKING ON CONCEPTS.
Folks, they aren't close to releasing the alpha.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mate, you're the one that looks mindless. Even if what you say is true to an extent, you are in no position to say how close they are to finishing the game. We know nothing about its progress apart from the snippets they give us. You honestly think that the things they have shown us are the ONLY things they have finished? On another note, why the hell are you being so cynical and pessimistic? Do you WANT the game to be delayed? Stop acting so high and mighty you arrogant ###### and think about what you are saying. Mindless fanboys? I'm sorry, I didn't know that if you were optimistic, hopeful and positive about a game you were branded a fanboy. So maybe I should take a leaf out of your book, and be an arrogant, cynical and pessimistic prick.
<!--quoteo(post=1721450:date=Aug 8 2009, 12:16 AM:name=Opprobrious)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opprobrious @ Aug 8 2009, 12:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721450"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You are now aware that the dynamic infestation video was released almost 3 full years ago.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe they were still using the Source engine at the time. You do know that they've switched engines, right?
<!--quoteo(post=1721430:date=Aug 8 2009, 01:20 PM:name=Opprobrious)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opprobrious @ Aug 8 2009, 01:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721430"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The reality is that there should have already been a rehash of NS out on the source engine. It wouldn't have been hard to port the game to source as a way to sustain the community in 2005-6. Community management has never been unknownworld's strength.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Rehashes with an already small community don't make money (unlike games such as CoD etc, which have huge communities), they need to bring some more features into play, to attract a wider market and widen the scope of gamers that will be interested.
Plus, I'd be pissed off is NS2 was simply a rehash of NS1, I certainly wouldn't pay for it.
<!--quoteo(post=1721430:date=Aug 8 2009, 01:20 PM:name=Opprobrious)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opprobrious @ Aug 8 2009, 01:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721430"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What's most disturbing to me is HOW LONG it takes them to get simple tasks done. Does it REALLY take over a month to get ONE MODEL with rudimentary animations completed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, as others have said, these are above (imo) normal AAA art assets being pumped out of a tiny team (even with the contractors, their team is VERY small for this game). I'd agree and say that they have a lot more finishes than they are willing to show; which is the complete opposite from the rest of the industry (and more productive imo). They are keeping the fans appetites up ready for the new release soon.
Just be a little more patient, if you had a clue what game development takes you'd shh.
Comments
Only way it could work for me would be as a mid-to-late game ability. And I think it should only work when hitting the marine from the back (like TF2 spy back stab). There you only need a single animation of a skulk backpack.
I think you manage to ambush a lone marine from the back you could cling for a set amount of time where you do no damage but shake the Marine view (a little bit!). Yet if the marine doesn't not manage to knock you off before the time is done he dies (Could also work with damage-over-time).
Any damage to the skulk knocks him off. However the marine needs a skilled way to knock the skulk off if alone. Like throwing at grenade at your feet or...
link two transponders at opposite side of a hallway to make and electric arc and walk through it in reverse. Hah! Would be and awesome mechanic
I think that might hurt gorge's position as the early ranged support. If skulks gain more ranged ability, gorge might need a few new tricks too or it will be degraded even more into healing duty. I like how the present system encourages picking at least one support gorge to add some diversion to the alien early game.
Focus fire from a few 15+ dmg instahit weapons might be surprisingly powerful against unarmored marines. I don't know whether that is a good or bad thing.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. The parasite doesn't give the aliens in the field any scouting advantages, but helps the alien commander. A parasited marine would show up the same way motion tracking shows up on the commander's screen in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this one more. It gives skulk some purpose for the late game.
<a href="http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/49479/Natural-Selection-2-Skulk-Character" target="_blank">http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/49479/Na...Skulk-Character</a>
PS: The incredibly idiotic message is mine, all mine! Mahahha!!
This also favors sneaky skulks in wide open spaces , where marines usually have the advantage even alone.
@ devs - Skulk looks awesome as do the vents, bringing back some form of low damage long range taunting ability would be a very good idea. Keep up the good work :).
I did in several threads but they don't care about what we, the veteran community read constie, think about those crappy changes. We preordered massively the first day but after the first "reveal" lot of people raged so, may I get a refund? GG
Speak for yourself. I and probably the majority of the community want a new game and NOT just NS1 with better graphics.
I don't agree with everything they come up with, but we haven't seen how the changes affect gameplay.
And you could have known that NS2 will be different long before they started to take pre-orders.
I don't know if it was said but here it is.
I hate the teeth in the screen. Any clanner hates it. I can't remember anyone who didn't try to get rid of it. I understand it is made to hide some laggy effect. Who never pass trough (litterally) a marin while biting it (yes 'IT' is my porc chop, i'm t3h beast over here!)??? So i guess one of the popular clan config main trick will probably include that kind of 'tweak'. Please just remove that.
I'd rather see a moving nose in the lower section of the screen while biting than that.
*Design
Nose: The divided jaws is a good idea. More of an alien type thing (movie etc..) In the mean time the curved nose (top one) doesn't look like the one of a predator. Sharp lines always fit predators.
Legs: i understand devs stand with the original NS, but in the mean time this kind of claws doesn't seem logic for getting glued on a cieling. Or use stealth. It's like trying to move like a ninja with tap dance shoes... tic tic tic tic...
Maybee a little more 'stealth cat' style for the walking. I mean, ambush is one of the main ingredient.
Don't get me wrong, i like it. But details like that bring a lot to the atmosphere.
Speaking for myself, all I ever wanted from NS2 was a better engine, updated graphics, perhaps some mechanics changes for balancing and finally, a renewed community to enjoy it with. I don't particularly hate the fact that the team is going in new and interesting directions, but I haven't exactly seen/heard of anything that blows my mind away yet. And I don't mind that all of these new characters are coming in spamming their ideas for what NS2 should be like, but NS1 was pretty much perfect in my mind. Original or not, it was beautiful, and I can see where all the controversy for the new game play changes comes from.
I also however, don't like this veteran mentality. IMO, there is no difference between someone who has experienced NS1 for less than a year and someone who has experienced NS1 since its small beginnings. Same goes for the Pubber vs. non-Pubber difference line. Being a veteran or a non-Pubber doesn't mean you should get any more or any less say in the final product. Its not like playing NS1 in a different server environment (how different is up to debate) or how long playing has given you some perfect and clear insight into how the new game should be, so please for the sake of the community. Stop it.
I don't think I've really mentioned my opinion on the actual Skulk. I don't really like the model for it. Everyone is saying how awesome it is that he looks meaner, but that wasn't usually what the skulk was for. If you wanted to survive as a non-super Skulk in NS Classic, you typically had to set up an ambush with a few other team mates or you hid behind corners, crouch walked - either way your goal was to be the silent killer most of the time. There are situations where this isn't always the case - if they're outside the Hive setting up a siege being stealthy will likely end the game, for example, but this was usually how it was. Getting around quickly, as quietly as possible and getting Marines when they least suspect it.
Now I'm fine with Parasite, or at least the mechanics of parasite, being removed, but one part of being a Skulk that I enjoyed was playing mind games with a group of marines. Hiding on the roof, and sniping at them with my parasite. I'd run around them, hitting them from different directions and when they got into a good position (or bad position, from their perspective) I'd likely go in for some damage. Parasite was also useful for taking down Marines when their health was low, especially at the beginning of the game. What was it, something like Bite, Bite, Para?
I'm happy that most of the rest of the mechanics have been left unchanged. The bite camera is what made the Skulk, the Skulk and was one of the things that made me play NS1 in the first place. Sure, it might not have been original, but at the time that it game out it was for me. I haven't seen a game use it accept for one of the AvP games, but really, if you're going to claim that the bite camera should absolutely go because a couple of other games have it and therefore its no longer original then perhaps you should take a look at EVERY OTHER FPS and EVERY OTHER RTS and EVERY OTHER MMO out there, because you'll find similarities in all of them.
So if the Parasite has to go, I'm fine with that, but just replace it with an equally useful ranged attack - and by ranged attack I don't mean a grappling hook.
I'm not going to tell you that your opinion of the Skulk is wrong. However you say he doesn't look good because he looks meaner when he was always the silent-killer, a stealthier kind of class. Remember that the Skulk is being changed, becoming minimally stronger but not losing his role as the silent assassin. Therefore visual aids must be put in place to accompany this evolution into a stronger Skulk. I know you would prefer he wasn't changed at all, with just updated graphics and keeping his already sound abilities. However there are many people that would disagree with you, if NS2 was just a rehash of NS1, there would be a lot of negative criticisms. NS2 uses the same formula as NS1, while adding and changing different gameplay mechanics. The balance is getting the new to work with the old. You can't have all of both.
the movement abilities should all be a seperate key and be consistant across all of the lifeforms
I hate the bitecam because it is terrible and uncreative. It's also slightly disorienting for new players. Something that raises the learning curve. In this case, there is no corresponding advantage to be gained later(as is the case with advanced movement skill). You just get used to it. People that have NOSTALGIC memories of NS are EMOTIONALLY attached to it. That's fine.
Remember that this game is going to have gems like MOBILE SIEGES. Hell, we don't even know if there is going to be jetpacks.
What's most disturbing to me is HOW LONG it takes them to get simple tasks done. Does it REALLY take over a month to get ONE MODEL with rudimentary animations completed?
They likely have already finished the models and animations, or putting the final touches on them - what they're doing is PR Management, and keeping newcomers hooked, waiting for the next sneak peak release. I wouldn't be surprised if much of the Alpha is actually just being finalized, and only the tools need to be polished somewhat (which is what was mentioned earlier on one of the tweets, AFAIR.)
Probably. This is an indie game aiming for AAA quality.
I hate the bitecam because it is terrible and uncreative. It's also slightly disorienting for new players. Something that raises the learning curve. In this case, there is no corresponding advantage to be gained later(as is the case with advanced movement skill). You just get used to it. People that have NOSTALGIC memories of NS are EMOTIONALLY attached to it. That's fine.
Remember that this game is going to have gems like MOBILE SIEGES. Hell, we don't even know if there is going to be jetpacks.
What's most disturbing to me is HOW LONG it takes them to get simple tasks done. Does it REALLY take over a month to get ONE MODEL with rudimentary animations completed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's most disturbing to me is how people with no experience can think they have any idea what an appropriate length of time to craft something would be.
As for bitecam, I found it very creative. Far more creative than eyes over weapon, which is the default for basically everything else.. including in NS. What were you hoping for? Eyes under weapon? The momentary blindness it applies is part of the immersion in my view, as this thing is biting with such force that everything else is forgotten. Go ahead.. try ripping a chunk off a carrot or something, see if you don't squint just a little while doing it. So to me, the "blink" that occurs conveys a sense of power.
Of all the things in NS that I found disorienting when I started, bitecam isn't even on the list. Lerk flight is. Figuring out some of the maps and getting to a waypoint was. Being suddenly dropped into a suit of heavy armor for the first time and my view bumping up a bit.. that was disorienting. Bitecam? Not at all. After playing a bit, I looked around and had the thought everyone does.. "So I'm looking through this things mouth? What are the eyes for?" but that was shrugged off as a graphical thing. Gameplay was fine.
I know clanners don't like it because it obstructs their view, but then again, we're talking about people who will turn off ambient sounds, remove various graphical goodies, and who more or less are willing to strip the game down to basic sprites if that gives them competitive advantage. That's fine, for them. Let them do that. Leave the immersion for the rest of us.
You really have no clue how to work PR building up to a release, do you?
Do you think Blizzard has only ever run 3 test battles in Starcraft 2 just because only 3 battle reports have been posted? Do you think they only have 3 classes even started for Diablo 3 just because we've only seen concept art and footage of 3 of them?
The reality is that Unknown Worlds is waiting to show us stuff until they are 100% ready to show it. If they showed us the concept art for a Lerk now, people would ######. If they told us the Gorge weapons/abilities tomorrow, people would ######. If they showed us all the animations for the Fade, people would ######. If they showed us the current state of the maps, people would ######. If they gave us the game tomorrow, people would ######.
These sorts of trailers are called "teasers" for a reason. They're not supposed to be substantial, they're supposed to curb excitement and keep people checking back for that next tidbit.
You saw the skulk model in game when the teaser was released a while ago. It just took them this long to make one video, duh!
I would not liked to be locked into the timing that ns2 dictates for my leap + bite. For instance sometimes one needs to bite in the middle of the leap!
Anyway it would get quite annoying to hear the bite noise after every leap.
This makes me wonder how dealing with dead bodies is going to take place. I guess you may be doing it like TF2 where the models stick around as long as possible so long as you're in visible range, but for an idea involving the use of the bodies, it might be better to throw some nanites in there and have bodies disintegrate based on the total number of "bodies in the area" and a time factor (not much unlike Quake3 or the Crysis suit). I guess there's also the issue of keeping the ragdoll physics of bodies synchronized without lag... you don't see that done server-side much in other games it seems.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IMO this could be the perfect skulk "taunt"
What's most disturbing to me is HOW LONG it takes them to get simple tasks done. Does it REALLY take over a month to get ONE MODEL with rudimentary animations completed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are in no position to criticise how long it may take different game developers to create and get different assets working. This is an Indie game with a very small team, they are doing an amazing job. So think about the position you are in, before telling them how "it wouldn't be hard to port the game to source" and that it "should have been done already". Realise that they are focusing on creating a game that is meant to be above average, and from seeing what they have done I have no doubt it will be a superb game. And what makes you think they were JUST working on the Skulk for the past month. For christ's sake just think about what you're saying before posting. Rudimentary animations? It may just be running, walking, biting and leaping but they are amazing animations. The quality is very important, not just the quantity. Show some respect.
On another note. I think the Skulk is looking absolutely fantastic. It looks strong, yet agile. Highly mobile, yet able to hold its ground. Brutal, yet silent. This Skulk looks like it could eat through a resource tower using its powerful jaws. When the Skulk runs it reminds me of a large cat. The Skulk has many features of the Onos yet still looks so unique. My new favourite alien, but if the quality is this superb for the rest of the aliens, I will not be able to choose!
Keep up the brilliant work. I am on the edge of my seat to see what you have done with the other aliens.
but then when released it makes a loudish snarl or breathing sound - so you can use it to enhance your stealth but if you waste your opportunity it could give your location away - and also freak the hell out of marines!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like that idea as long as the focus makes you move =< marine speed. That way, it would be a fun way to sneak up on slowly advancing marines, but risky if they moved away too fast and it runs out with that howl. Plus, it could also be used to scare/lure/distract marines if used out-of-combat and add to the tension. Having leap be secondary would also work now that you always have it.
Just to add my own wild idea: what if it was a backstab attack. Basically, an attack effective against the back of marines (leg-spike stab!) but very reduced against front, and either way longish after-use delay so if you miss or he turns around you would have been better off biting. This attack goes well with the sneaky, fast assassin theme of the skulk.
Maybe too deadly for a fast moving wall hugging skulk? Instead of doing increased damage, perhaps it should do something else on a successful backstab. Maybe a dot, maybe temporary speed reduce, maybe it makes the marine fire wildly temporarily doing friendly fire damage.
Maybe backstab = bite damage, but if you finish a low health marine off you get health back? As a way of ambushing a lone marine after a fight and then not having to go back to hive for healing. Or maybe you latch onto the dead marine's back , dead player goes to respawn and all that but his body remains upright and the skulk implants feeders into the back of the poor guy's head and takes over his brain. You could use the marine's abilities against the others for a change, perhaps limited time and of course the other marines can shoot you or the marine's body to death. This doesn't inconvenience the marine player because he died fair and square and doesn't have to wait to go to respawn queue, the alien just becomes a marine for a little bit that's all.
You are now aware that the dynamic infestation video was released almost 3 full years ago.
THEY ARE STILL WORKING ON CONCEPTS.
Folks, they aren't close to releasing the alpha.
I know that the grapple style ideas would promote team work on marines blah blah but it shouldn't be IMPOSSIBLE for a marine to go solo or go ahead of the pack for a bit.
I'm in favour of a ranged attack with very low damage perhaps almost the same as parasite because it was a really important skill for goading marines.
Another possibility I like is the idea of a charged up spit that damages structures. This is because it seems like the taser will allow marines to kill structures more quickly if they are uninterrupted so the skulk should get a similar sort of upgrade that balances it out.
Also
+ no. whatever to having no disorientation abilities.
IMO anything that is quite annoying like that ruins gameplay. As has been said before flashbangs in cs are about the limit of disorientation.
You are now aware that the dynamic infestation video was released almost 3 full years ago.
THEY ARE STILL WORKING ON CONCEPTS.
Folks, they aren't close to releasing the alpha.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mate, you're the one that looks mindless.
Even if what you say is true to an extent, you are in no position to say how close they are to finishing the game. We know nothing about its progress apart from the snippets they give us. You honestly think that the things they have shown us are the ONLY things they have finished?
On another note, why the hell are you being so cynical and pessimistic? Do you WANT the game to be delayed? Stop acting so high and mighty you arrogant ###### and think about what you are saying. Mindless fanboys? I'm sorry, I didn't know that if you were optimistic, hopeful and positive about a game you were branded a fanboy. So maybe I should take a leaf out of your book, and be an arrogant, cynical and pessimistic prick.
I believe they were still using the Source engine at the time. You do know that they've switched engines, right?
Rehashes with an already small community don't make money (unlike games such as CoD etc, which have huge communities), they need to bring some more features into play, to attract a wider market and widen the scope of gamers that will be interested.
Plus, I'd be pissed off is NS2 was simply a rehash of NS1, I certainly wouldn't pay for it.
<!--quoteo(post=1721430:date=Aug 8 2009, 01:20 PM:name=Opprobrious)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opprobrious @ Aug 8 2009, 01:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721430"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What's most disturbing to me is HOW LONG it takes them to get simple tasks done. Does it REALLY take over a month to get ONE MODEL with rudimentary animations completed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, as others have said, these are above (imo) normal AAA art assets being pumped out of a tiny team (even with the contractors, their team is VERY small for this game). I'd agree and say that they have a lot more finishes than they are willing to show; which is the complete opposite from the rest of the industry (and more productive imo). They are keeping the fans appetites up ready for the new release soon.
Just be a little more patient, if you had a clue what game development takes you'd shh.