Leap was better as a second hive ability. As the second hive was completed, it shifted the dynamics of the alien team away from defense and more towards offense.
<!--quoteo(post=1721633:date=Aug 9 2009, 07:42 AM:name=Xero)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xero @ Aug 9 2009, 07:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721633"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->EDIT: I see people keep posting about eating dead bodies for HP. I think this is a bad idea. The game is meant to be fast paced, especially skulks. You shouldn't waste time dragging bodies and chomping them. INSTEAD, why not just give +10 HP for every successful chomp on a live marine?! This makes a lot more sense. Skulks will be rewarded for attacking marines and the gameplay stays fast paced. Hell, lerks and any other aliens that bite could replenish HP this way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You get the idea wrong, it's not only about eating for HP but the whole "grabbing stuff" aspect. And the game may be fast paced but the skulks speciallity is ambush and not bunnyhopping with insane speed into marine groups. That's why a grabbing ability would be cool as it offers options to mess with the marines, if you got a source engine game you should give the hidden mod a try to fully understand what people are talking about.
It's one of the best examples for a game how you can mess with people in a multiplayer game. Imagine the predator movies where people shoot all over the place because they freak out about nothing. That's the style of gameplay i would love as a skulk. With parasite gone the skulk lacks his most important ability to mess with marines, so as a replacement skulks could grab weapons that lie on the ground and drag corpses and maybe pin them to the ceiling to freak out marines.
Sure it won't be the totaly awesome game winning ability (like spammable DoT's or "i get you alone and i'm gonna grab to you for autowin") but i imagine it to be really fun to play with. Skulks could drop marine corpses out of vents to scare them for example :D
As awkward as the whole dragging thing seemed goofy at first, i actually thinik its a good idea. i think if there is any health replenishment involved, it should be minuscule at most so aliens have to think thoroughly at whether their time is worth staying by a corpse to get health back.
Da_SargeOld School SuckJoin Date: 2002-10-15Member: 1502Members
I've not seen a suggestion like what I am about to suggest, so I'll do my best to share what I am thinking.
If we are to emphasize the role the skulk has in ambushing its targets, the alt-fire should facilitate the "lead up" to the ambush, and not the ambush itself. That is, what can the skulk do before it assaults a marine(s) and maximize the use of its primary attack?
I suggest some sort of diversionary ability. Some type of skill that can mislead the marines into believing the skulk is somewhere it isn't. Two possible skills come to mind
1.) A projectile that deals little to no damage to marines, but upon contact with a surface makes a sound much like that of a skulk walking. Picture a skulk latched to a wall anticipating a marine to come by. The skulk fires 3 or 4 projectiles through a doorway into an adjacent room, making the sound of a skulk taking 3 or 4 paces. The marine is wary, and believes his target to be in the upcoming room. The skulk is able to capitalize on the marine being mislead and is able to ambush him more successfully.
2.) A "ventriloquist" style hiss. That is, the skulk is able to project a hiss from across the room (throw its voice, so to speak). The goal is the same as the previous idea, to mislead marines into believing a skulk is somewhere it isn't.
When marines research motion tracking things become different, certainly, but this style of alt-fire could prove useful in opening minutes of a round.
I don't agree with the disabling or grappling alt-fires. In 1 on 1 scenarios, the skulk shouldn't and wouldn't waste time trying to latch onto a marine, but rather just chomp him and be done with it. When dealing with a group, any kind of attack which locks the skulk in place, even to a marine, would be met with little success and likely wouldn't be used. The alt-fire, in my opinion, should be more passive and more dependent on the context its executed in rather than "this skill will disable/slow/de-arm/whatever" in addition to the bite attack the skulk already has. The alt fire should be supportive of the primary attack in this case, and shouldn't be (ironically) an alternative.
<!--quoteo(post=1721720:date=Aug 9 2009, 05:43 PM:name=homicide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (homicide @ Aug 9 2009, 05:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721720"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Leap was better as a second hive ability. As the second hive was completed, it shifted the dynamics of the alien team away from defense and more towards offense.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah, the insights of a seasoned NSPlayer.
I sure hope the devs understand how important these things are and how they make the game what it is...
"With parasite gone the skulk lacks his most important ability to mess with marines, so as a replacement skulks could grab weapons that lie on the ground and drag corpses and maybe pin them to the ceiling to freak out marines."
Oo, and skin off the flesh too for HP bonus? That would be creepy indeed.
"Hiss" As an addition to chuckle, that would be cool.
"maybe a kind of dive bomb for lerk" Yeah, good idea. 'Cept, it was mine.
"I would say have a limit to how much it can heal, like up to 25% of the damage it took. Would significantly increase the lifespan of a strategic player. Most players probably wouldn't live past a few ambushes."
While I like this idea, we all forget that NS2 will have that dynamic heal system like the Call of Duty games. So a healing ability is <b>redundant</b>. You take too much damage at once and you will die. If you take some, then run you will live to fight another day.
"WHY The fade is the last ? My fav :((( " For that reason, it's one of the most favourite. The best till last.
"It's the ability for the commander to do something other than drop meds and upgrade" Maybe instead of meds, ammo. Because of the healing system. (Anyone provide a link for this?)
"I don't know what "alt-fire" means exactly.." Then you should have looked it up before finishing your post because you've killed your credibility entirely. It's not rocket surgery. Most FPS games have an alt fire, even if it's just zoom in.
"In other words there should be customizable weapon slots, so you can bind an ability to a slot AND to a single button. And you can overload the slots as much as you want." There already are. Go to options, change the binds on your keys. But 5 different abilities set to key_press 1 (ie. pressing key number 1 on your keyboard) isn't strategic or smart at all. You need 1 button that does what you want in that spur of the moment, be it fight or flight.
"How about making the alt-fire for skulk to be kind of loadable charge. Like Growl in Vampireslayer. Basically it will make enemies glow red and incrase damage for short period of time. Maybe it could increase speed also." You mean... Primal Scream... for the Lerk? Have you ever played NS1?
"You don't have to be a rocked scientist " The phrase is RockeT scientist.. lol
"couldn't you guys have given the skulk some triceratops bony-frill + triceratops-horns :P" No coz its an alien, not a dinosaur. Fail.
"In late game, especially CO, there are little to no gorges in a pub game" It's redundant to mention CO, period.
"I'm coming around to putting leap on the Skulk bite alt-fire. If we add a bite at the end of the leap, then it's consistent too." Sure, consistent, but why not just script all the action while you're at it. Make it a turn based strategy altogether.
"I'm coming around to putting leap on the Skulk bite alt-fire. If we add a bite at the end of the leap, then it's consistent too." True, but since skulks are slower now, leap is now viable as a first hive ability.
<!--quoteo(post=1721720:date=Aug 10 2009, 08:43 AM:name=homicide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (homicide @ Aug 10 2009, 08:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721720"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Leap was better as a second hive ability. As the second hive was completed, it shifted the dynamics of the alien team away from defense and more towards offense.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Once again I must point out while that is true for the original game, we can't throw chat out like that and assume we know how it is going to affect NS2. Not at least till we've get our hands on a build.
Seems like most of my ideas for the alt-fire attack have been represented here. I will review the best stated ideas IMO in my order of preference with comments, with a few new ideas below:
1) focus attack I like the idea of holding to charge an attack and then release it. I would add a growl while charging for balance. Simple, easy to learn tactical option.
2) snatch marine Conceptually this sounds the most fun. This attack would do 50% of a normal attack damage ONLY IF that would kill the marine. If "killed" the marine is snatched and ragdolled to the skulk's mouth. The skulk could then return it to the hive/res chamber/body absorber for bonus res or alt-fire again to drop the corpse (which could no longer be picked up). If the 50% damage bite would not kill the marine then the attack does NO DAMAGE. This idea could be combined with the focus attack above. I like idea because it adds more depth to the skulk's role beyond killing things as well as immersion.
3) blinding spit A head shot with this spit would partially blind the marine a la boomer vile. Simple, but skill-based and effective.
4) leap Nice and simple
5) grapple I like the idea, especially how it is balanced vs. the marine knockback attack. I think the attack should do no damage - it would be up to teammates to kill one or the other. So the attack would not be an auto-win for the hitting skulk but rather allow the skulk to buy time for his teammates to help. Of course the marine would be in the same predicament. Still, seems too involved for a one-hive unit and ability. I'd rather see this as some kind of special attack from a higher lifeform as constant skulk grappling would become tedious quickly i think.
NEW IDEA - ventriloquism Ok the title sounds misleading, but we all know it is the headphone jockeys who are to be feared on the marine side. So why not assume kharaa have evolved some kind of ventriloquism ability to confuse their enemies? This ability would create a random (?) skulk sound where targeted. The ability needs more flavor text but I could see it replacing parasite in terms of setting up ambushes.
NEW IDEA - toggle wallhack Allow skulks to toggle between regular vision and themed wallhack, very much like the new batman:AA game's "detective mode." Who needs parasite now?
NEW IDEA - request backup This ability would in some way alert all teammates to the user's position and indicate that they need help.
NEW IDEA - play dead The classic alien horror trick - they think they got it...but its STILL ALIVE. Maybe not used often enough to warrant alt-fire status.
NEW IDEA - disarm Does no damage. Must successfully hit the target's weapon hitbox to knock the weapon out of hand, else no effect.
<!--quoteo(post=1721744:date=Aug 9 2009, 08:44 PM:name=steppin'razor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (steppin'razor @ Aug 9 2009, 08:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721744"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Once again I must point out while that is true for the original game, we can't throw chat out like that and assume we know how it is going to affect NS2. Not at least till we've get our hands on a build.
typo<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong,
First off, leap is inherently an offensive ability. It is not specific to NS1, NS2, or NS at all. It is perfectly legitimate to make conceptual <i>leaps</i> about how it will affect the dynamics of the game (or any game).
Second, we should acknowledge the good aspects of NS1; in this case, a shift in dynamics caused by alien tech progression (leap).
Clearly, leap is being suggested as a native ability to help alleviate the pain of castrating bunny hopping. This might be an acceptable solution, but they must acknowledge that they are removing one of the games greatest tech progressions.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2) snatch marine Conceptually this sounds the most fun. This attack would do 50% of a normal attack damage ONLY IF that would kill the marine. If "killed" the marine is snatched and ragdolled to the skulk's mouth. The skulk could then return it to the hive/res chamber/body absorber for bonus res or alt-fire again to drop the corpse (which could no longer be picked up). If the 50% damage bite would not kill the marine then the attack does NO DAMAGE. This idea could be combined with the focus attack above. I like idea because it adds more depth to the skulk's role beyond killing things as well as immersion<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seconded.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wrong, First off, leap is inherently an offensive ability. It is not specific to NS1, NS2, or NS at all. It is perfectly legitimate to make conceptual leaps about how it will affect the dynamics of the game (or any game). Second, we should acknowledge the good aspects of NS1; in this case, a shift in dynamics caused by alien tech progression (leap). Clearly, leap is being suggested as a native ability to help alleviate the pain of castrating bunny hopping. This might be an acceptable solution, but they must acknowledge that they are removing one of the games greatest tech progressions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, but a different opinion doesn't make it "wrong", just a wholey different perspective (to yours). Have you considered that the skulk is slower? That leap might use more of your energy per use? I doubt its ENTIRELY an alternate from bunny hopping.
(I played ns(1) recently and always notice that I am often the one that uses leap the most (as a method of moving))
tankefuglOne Script To Rule Them All...Trondheim, NorwayJoin Date: 2002-11-14Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
First off, leap is inherently an offensive ability. It is not specific to NS1, NS2, or NS at all. It is perfectly legitimate to make conceptual <i>leaps</i> about how it will affect the dynamics of the game (or any game).
Second, we should acknowledge the good aspects of NS1; in this case, a shift in dynamics caused by alien tech progression (leap).
Clearly, leap is being suggested as a native ability to help alleviate the pain of castrating bunny hopping. This might be an acceptable solution, but they must acknowledge that they are removing one of the games greatest tech progressions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Minor changes to the game changed the tech progression of the game. If you compare NS v1.0 to NS v2.0 and the changes in gameplay that introduced, looking at the massive amount of changes in NS2 will most likely shift the tech, the progression and the gameplay experience in a myriad of ways that is hard to forsee. Also remember that the gameplay did evolve over time with both patches and the player base experimenting and finding new ways of playing it.
While leap was a part of an important tech transition, it was not the sole contributor (think of the fade and the 2nd movement chamber, or the 2-hive respawn) to this progression from the alien side. Thinking that that single transition is irreplacible is in my opinion false, and alternate transitions can be developed. Just the single fact that skulks will take more punishment and be slightly slower is something that alone can impact the importance of a leap, disconnected from its behavior and importance in NS.
Also, you note that it is a good aspect of NS, it can also be argued that the strong hive-dependance (including leap) of aliens in NS is one of its worst aspects, since it projects the alien gameplay into a very strict schedule. A late or disrupted 2nd hive was often the bane of the alien team in competitive games, simply due to the heavy tech transition it provided. The outcome of the game was often decided in the early game, on the road to the 2nd hive.
The behavior of leap alone can be interpolated from previous experiences (NS, L4D, other games) in a local sense (how it will behave in single fights and scenarios), but the behavior on a larger scale is too deeply coupled with the rest of the game's mechanics.
Not at all saying you're wrong, just trying to project a bit of uncertainty into the otherwise absolute statement ;)
sure the learning curve is huge but i dont think any abilities should be removed. parasite is a must. Xenocide is also must making the skulk still useful lategame. no weapon/lifeform/upgrade should be useless early, mid, or late game.
I think that +movement should just be bound to mouse2 by default, and be usable regardless of hive number. Having alt-fires assigned to weapon slots would be a pain. Using leap and a 2nd or 3rd hive ability would require constant switching. Custom key binds would sort this out, but as a retail product the controls should be ready to use out of the box.
What I'm wondering most about is if there is going to be xeno. In NS1 when HA comes along playing as a skulk becomes pretty tough. Weapons are usually at level 3 and even a poorly aimed shotgun shot can kill you. In these games often the turning point was as soon as the 3rd hive went up. Skulks became useful again in mass xeno attacks, particulary on welding groups of heavies and near phase gates. Without xeno however, skulks weren't very useful at this stage.
I think that the new 2nd hive ability could make use of the skulks front claws as a stabbing weapon. The skulk would have to be on the ground to get enough traction to stab effectively, and be in bite range. The skulk could rear up on its back legs and lunge forward. This attack would be a bit slower than a bite, and can't be done midleap, but the stab would go straight through any armour and deal its damage directly to HP.
An attack that goes straight through armor would make the skulk a bit more versatile after hive 2. It shouldn't make skulks too powerful, but partly compensate for the armour upgrades that have made their bites less useful.
<!--quoteo(post=1721763:date=Aug 10 2009, 02:16 AM:name=homicide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (homicide @ Aug 10 2009, 02:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721763"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Replace parasite with an ability that makes skulks spawn from the corpses of killed marines. I imagine the skulk humping the marine's face.
There was already a suggestion for parasite to affect the marine hearing and I too had a similar idea, however, instead of making you not hear anything it could make you hear things that aren't real. Like skulk walking behind you or near you or anything similar. Or making things even worse it could make you see things that aren't real, like when you look back you see a skulk jump at you and you start shooting in panic into the air. There could be tens of different affects that come randomly, from skulk sounds to onos charging towards you :) The parasite would last maybe 10-30 sec until nanobots kill it.
Well that was just a thought I had and I thought it would be cool.
What about a crippling bite(for the alt-bite), that deals less damage than the "normal" bite but slows down the marines movespeed for a few seconds, so the bigger aliens or even the Skulk can kill easier the bited marine.
If you want Leap as Alt. Fire you should have to bind it in the controls. I want a Alt. Fire, thats creative and original in bugging and killing a marine.
Maybe just a little headnut tackle attack, like the Rines have their melee attack. Or just a Snarl.
First off, leap is inherently an offensive ability. It is not specific to NS1, NS2, or NS at all. It is perfectly legitimate to make conceptual <i>leaps</i> about how it will affect the dynamics of the game (or any game).
Second, we should acknowledge the good aspects of NS1; in this case, a shift in dynamics caused by alien tech progression (leap).
Clearly, leap is being suggested as a native ability to help alleviate the pain of castrating bunny hopping. This might be an acceptable solution, but they must acknowledge that they are removing one of the games greatest tech progressions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Leap is not an inherently offensive ability, it is offensive in NS1.
My point was your making a lot of assumptions. While they share the same name (leap) we don't know what part of the mechanics have changed or stayed the same and what impact this will have on thing in the big picture, something we also don't know much about. All I'm asking is a little bit less speculation and a little bit more discussion on information we actually have.
you have to kill the worm by shooting the yellow thing. it's difficult because you move the mouse relative to the position of the player position (not the camera position) so you need a bit of skill...
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combining that means: a skulk is grapple you and then the view changes to 3rd person and then you have to try to shot him or stab him with your knife.
I realise this may seem a bit silly, but why can't the lunge attack be the secondary fire of the bite attack?
I mean you use the two together and I always found switching between the two attacks very fiddly in NS1. The point of having secondary firemodes aside from being able to use less art for more stuff is that they compliment the primary fire, otherwise you just make a new gun.
I can't see why a grapple attack would need to be combined with the bite attack, one deals damage, the other immobilises people, but you presumably can't use the two simultaneously or one after the other.
Leap however is usually used in combination with bite, or xenocide, or just generally a close range damage dealer, so you would use leap to get close, bite people, and then maybe again to get away afterwards. It makes sense therefore to have it on the same weapon as the main close range damage dealer, or just the general main skulk weapon.
You can add in other abilities if you like but a bit of convenience in performing some of the more complex maneuvers would help make the skulk less annoying to play for people who aren't alien experts.
Oh yes and also some more ambush abilities would be nice, in NS1 I thought the skulk would be a perfect ambush class, you hide in the ceiling somewhere and drop into marines as they go by, but I never managed to do it well, I always ended up chasing them around and biting them rather than the stealthy approach I thought would work, so some sort of assistance in that area would be nice, maybe if you attack someone from above it gives you a bit of auto aim to help hit them as long as you're fairly accurate to begin with, or maybe do more damage considering you just bit their face off.
you have to kill the worm by shooting the yellow thing. it's difficult because you move the mouse relative to the position of the player position (not the camera position) so you need a bit of skill...
-
combining that means: a skulk is grapple you and then the view changes to 3rd person and then you have to try to shot him or stab him with your knife.
just an idea...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cool but not for an online game, I mean while you try to kill the skulk any other kharaa can kill you and same for the skulk that can be killed by any othr marine
Really nice work I cant wait to play, looking forward to seeing the other aliens and marines :) oh and does anyone know if theres a pic of what the black armor looks like or the armor its self.
Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but in NS1, effectively doing wall and ceiling climbs, especially during combat, was a hassle and you'd often "de-grab" at bad moments.
Could you perhaps do one, if not BOTH of the following?
1. Have a key bound to "climb" so you can climb on demand, not by just touching a wall. This way, you can also not accidentally fall down.
2. Have a camera -OPTION- to actually change according to which angle you're hanging/climbing from. So, if you're on the ceiling, it looks like it's the floor to you. You can get a lot more control this way.
Here's an example of this. Ignore the annoying "vision mode" the alien player uses, but you can somewhat see how you can climb on surfaces and your view reflects this change.
Comments
You get the idea wrong, it's not only about eating for HP but the whole "grabbing stuff" aspect. And the game may be fast paced but the skulks speciallity is ambush and not bunnyhopping with insane speed into marine groups. That's why a grabbing ability would be cool as it offers options to mess with the marines, if you got a source engine game you should give the hidden mod a try to fully understand what people are talking about.
It's one of the best examples for a game how you can mess with people in a multiplayer game. Imagine the predator movies where people shoot all over the place because they freak out about nothing. That's the style of gameplay i would love as a skulk. With parasite gone the skulk lacks his most important ability to mess with marines, so as a replacement skulks could grab weapons that lie on the ground and drag corpses and maybe pin them to the ceiling to freak out marines.
Sure it won't be the totaly awesome game winning ability (like spammable DoT's or "i get you alone and i'm gonna grab to you for autowin") but i imagine it to be really fun to play with. Skulks could drop marine corpses out of vents to scare them for example :D
If we are to emphasize the role the skulk has in ambushing its targets, the alt-fire should facilitate the "lead up" to the ambush, and not the ambush itself. That is, what can the skulk do before it assaults a marine(s) and maximize the use of its primary attack?
I suggest some sort of diversionary ability. Some type of skill that can mislead the marines into believing the skulk is somewhere it isn't. Two possible skills come to mind
1.) A projectile that deals little to no damage to marines, but upon contact with a surface makes a sound much like that of a skulk walking. Picture a skulk latched to a wall anticipating a marine to come by. The skulk fires 3 or 4 projectiles through a doorway into an adjacent room, making the sound of a skulk taking 3 or 4 paces. The marine is wary, and believes his target to be in the upcoming room. The skulk is able to capitalize on the marine being mislead and is able to ambush him more successfully.
2.) A "ventriloquist" style hiss. That is, the skulk is able to project a hiss from across the room (throw its voice, so to speak). The goal is the same as the previous idea, to mislead marines into believing a skulk is somewhere it isn't.
When marines research motion tracking things become different, certainly, but this style of alt-fire could prove useful in opening minutes of a round.
I don't agree with the disabling or grappling alt-fires. In 1 on 1 scenarios, the skulk shouldn't and wouldn't waste time trying to latch onto a marine, but rather just chomp him and be done with it. When dealing with a group, any kind of attack which locks the skulk in place, even to a marine, would be met with little success and likely wouldn't be used. The alt-fire, in my opinion, should be more passive and more dependent on the context its executed in rather than "this skill will disable/slow/de-arm/whatever" in addition to the bite attack the skulk already has. The alt fire should be supportive of the primary attack in this case, and shouldn't be (ironically) an alternative.
Ah, the insights of a seasoned NSPlayer.
I sure hope the devs understand how important these things are and how they make the game what it is...
Oo, and skin off the flesh too for HP bonus? That would be creepy indeed.
"Hiss"
As an addition to chuckle, that would be cool.
"maybe a kind of dive bomb for lerk"
Yeah, good idea. 'Cept, it was mine.
"I would say have a limit to how much it can heal, like up to 25% of the damage it took. Would significantly increase the lifespan of a strategic player. Most players probably wouldn't live past a few ambushes."
While I like this idea, we all forget that NS2 will have that dynamic heal system like the Call of Duty games. So a healing ability is <b>redundant</b>. You take too much damage at once and you will die. If you take some, then run you will live to fight another day.
"WHY The fade is the last ? My fav :((( "
For that reason, it's one of the most favourite. The best till last.
"It's the ability for the commander to do something other than drop meds and upgrade"
Maybe instead of meds, ammo. Because of the healing system. (Anyone provide a link for this?)
"I don't know what "alt-fire" means exactly.."
Then you should have looked it up before finishing your post because you've killed your credibility entirely. It's not rocket surgery.
Most FPS games have an alt fire, even if it's just zoom in.
"In other words there should be customizable weapon slots, so you can bind an ability to a slot AND to a single button. And you can overload the slots as much as you want."
There already are. Go to options, change the binds on your keys. But 5 different abilities set to key_press 1 (ie. pressing key number 1 on your keyboard) isn't strategic or smart at all. You need 1 button that does what you want in that spur of the moment, be it fight or flight.
"How about making the alt-fire for skulk to be kind of loadable charge. Like Growl in Vampireslayer. Basically it will make enemies glow red and incrase damage for short period of time. Maybe it could increase speed also."
You mean... Primal Scream... for the Lerk? Have you ever played NS1?
"You don't have to be a rocked scientist "
The phrase is RockeT scientist.. lol
"couldn't you guys have given the skulk some triceratops bony-frill + triceratops-horns :P"
No coz its an alien, not a dinosaur. Fail.
"In late game, especially CO, there are little to no gorges in a pub game"
It's redundant to mention CO, period.
"I'm coming around to putting leap on the Skulk bite alt-fire. If we add a bite at the end of the leap, then it's consistent too."
Sure, consistent, but why not just script all the action while you're at it. Make it a turn based strategy altogether.
"I'm coming around to putting leap on the Skulk bite alt-fire. If we add a bite at the end of the leap, then it's consistent too."
True, but since skulks are slower now, leap is now viable as a first hive ability.
Once again I must point out while that is true for the original game, we can't throw chat out like that and assume we know how it is going to affect NS2. Not at least till we've get our hands on a build.
typo
1) focus attack
I like the idea of holding to charge an attack and then release it. I would add a growl while charging for balance. Simple, easy to learn tactical option.
2) snatch marine
Conceptually this sounds the most fun. This attack would do 50% of a normal attack damage ONLY IF that would kill the marine. If "killed" the marine is snatched and ragdolled to the skulk's mouth. The skulk could then return it to the hive/res chamber/body absorber for bonus res or alt-fire again to drop the corpse (which could no longer be picked up). If the 50% damage bite would not kill the marine then the attack does NO DAMAGE. This idea could be combined with the focus attack above. I like idea because it adds more depth to the skulk's role beyond killing things as well as immersion.
3) blinding spit
A head shot with this spit would partially blind the marine a la boomer vile. Simple, but skill-based and effective.
4) leap
Nice and simple
5) grapple
I like the idea, especially how it is balanced vs. the marine knockback attack. I think the attack should do no damage - it would be up to teammates to kill one or the other. So the attack would not be an auto-win for the hitting skulk but rather allow the skulk to buy time for his teammates to help. Of course the marine would be in the same predicament. Still, seems too involved for a one-hive unit and ability. I'd rather see this as some kind of special attack from a higher lifeform as constant skulk grappling would become tedious quickly i think.
NEW IDEA - ventriloquism
Ok the title sounds misleading, but we all know it is the headphone jockeys who are to be feared on the marine side. So why not assume kharaa have evolved some kind of ventriloquism ability to confuse their enemies? This ability would create a random (?) skulk sound where targeted. The ability needs more flavor text but I could see it replacing parasite in terms of setting up ambushes.
NEW IDEA - toggle wallhack
Allow skulks to toggle between regular vision and themed wallhack, very much like the new batman:AA game's "detective mode." Who needs parasite now?
NEW IDEA - request backup
This ability would in some way alert all teammates to the user's position and indicate that they need help.
NEW IDEA - play dead
The classic alien horror trick - they think they got it...but its STILL ALIVE. Maybe not used often enough to warrant alt-fire status.
NEW IDEA - disarm
Does no damage. Must successfully hit the target's weapon hitbox to knock the weapon out of hand, else no effect.
typo<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong,
First off, leap is inherently an offensive ability. It is not specific to NS1, NS2, or NS at all. It is perfectly legitimate to make conceptual <i>leaps</i> about how it will affect the dynamics of the game (or any game).
Second, we should acknowledge the good aspects of NS1; in this case, a shift in dynamics caused by alien tech progression (leap).
Clearly, leap is being suggested as a native ability to help alleviate the pain of castrating bunny hopping. This might be an acceptable solution, but they must acknowledge that they are removing one of the games greatest tech progressions.
SEE DIAGRAM BELOW:
<a href="http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7582/skulkhump.jpg" target="_blank">http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7582/skulkhump.jpg</a>
<img src="http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7582/skulkhump.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Conceptually this sounds the most fun. This attack would do 50% of a normal attack damage ONLY IF that would kill the marine. If "killed" the marine is snatched and ragdolled to the skulk's mouth. The skulk could then return it to the hive/res chamber/body absorber for bonus res or alt-fire again to drop the corpse (which could no longer be picked up). If the 50% damage bite would not kill the marine then the attack does NO DAMAGE. This idea could be combined with the focus attack above. I like idea because it adds more depth to the skulk's role beyond killing things as well as immersion<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seconded.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wrong,
First off, leap is inherently an offensive ability. It is not specific to NS1, NS2, or NS at all. It is perfectly legitimate to make conceptual leaps about how it will affect the dynamics of the game (or any game).
Second, we should acknowledge the good aspects of NS1; in this case, a shift in dynamics caused by alien tech progression (leap).
Clearly, leap is being suggested as a native ability to help alleviate the pain of castrating bunny hopping. This might be an acceptable solution, but they must acknowledge that they are removing one of the games greatest tech progressions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, but a different opinion doesn't make it "wrong", just a wholey different perspective (to yours).
Have you considered that the skulk is slower?
That leap might use more of your energy per use?
I doubt its ENTIRELY an alternate from bunny hopping.
(I played ns(1) recently and always notice that I am often the one that uses leap the most (as a method of moving))
First off, leap is inherently an offensive ability. It is not specific to NS1, NS2, or NS at all. It is perfectly legitimate to make conceptual <i>leaps</i> about how it will affect the dynamics of the game (or any game).
Second, we should acknowledge the good aspects of NS1; in this case, a shift in dynamics caused by alien tech progression (leap).
Clearly, leap is being suggested as a native ability to help alleviate the pain of castrating bunny hopping. This might be an acceptable solution, but they must acknowledge that they are removing one of the games greatest tech progressions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Minor changes to the game changed the tech progression of the game. If you compare NS v1.0 to NS v2.0 and the changes in gameplay that introduced, looking at the massive amount of changes in NS2 will most likely shift the tech, the progression and the gameplay experience in a myriad of ways that is hard to forsee. Also remember that the gameplay did evolve over time with both patches and the player base experimenting and finding new ways of playing it.
While leap was a part of an important tech transition, it was not the sole contributor (think of the fade and the 2nd movement chamber, or the 2-hive respawn) to this progression from the alien side. Thinking that that single transition is irreplacible is in my opinion false, and alternate transitions can be developed. Just the single fact that skulks will take more punishment and be slightly slower is something that alone can impact the importance of a leap, disconnected from its behavior and importance in NS.
Also, you note that it is a good aspect of NS, it can also be argued that the strong hive-dependance (including leap) of aliens in NS is one of its worst aspects, since it projects the alien gameplay into a very strict schedule. A late or disrupted 2nd hive was often the bane of the alien team in competitive games, simply due to the heavy tech transition it provided. The outcome of the game was often decided in the early game, on the road to the 2nd hive.
The behavior of leap alone can be interpolated from previous experiences (NS, L4D, other games) in a local sense (how it will behave in single fights and scenarios), but the behavior on a larger scale is too deeply coupled with the rest of the game's mechanics.
Not at all saying you're wrong, just trying to project a bit of uncertainty into the otherwise absolute statement ;)
sure the learning curve is huge but i dont think any abilities should be removed. parasite is a must. Xenocide is also must making the skulk still useful lategame. no weapon/lifeform/upgrade should be useless early, mid, or late game.
WELL DONE!
What I'm wondering most about is if there is going to be xeno. In NS1 when HA comes along playing as a skulk becomes pretty tough. Weapons are usually at level 3 and even a poorly aimed shotgun shot can kill you. In these games often the turning point was as soon as the 3rd hive went up. Skulks became useful again in mass xeno attacks, particulary on welding groups of heavies and near phase gates. Without xeno however, skulks weren't very useful at this stage.
I think that the new 2nd hive ability could make use of the skulks front claws as a stabbing weapon. The skulk would have to be on the ground to get enough traction to stab effectively, and be in bite range. The skulk could rear up on its back legs and lunge forward.
This attack would be a bit slower than a bite, and can't be done midleap, but the stab would go straight through any armour and deal its damage directly to HP.
An attack that goes straight through armor would make the skulk a bit more versatile after hive 2. It shouldn't make skulks too powerful, but partly compensate for the armour upgrades that have made their bites less useful.
SEE DIAGRAM BELOW:
<a href="http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7582/skulkhump.jpg" target="_blank">http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7582/skulkhump.jpg</a>
<img src="http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7582/skulkhump.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Best post evar, love the attention to detail with the pink member!
Or making things even worse it could make you see things that aren't real, like when you look back you see a skulk jump at you and you start shooting in panic into the air. There could be tens of different affects that come randomly, from skulk sounds to onos charging towards you :)
The parasite would last maybe 10-30 sec until nanobots kill it.
Well that was just a thought I had and I thought it would be cool.
I want a Alt. Fire, thats creative and original in bugging and killing a marine.
Maybe just a little headnut tackle attack, like the Rines have their melee attack.
Or just a Snarl.
First off, leap is inherently an offensive ability. It is not specific to NS1, NS2, or NS at all. It is perfectly legitimate to make conceptual <i>leaps</i> about how it will affect the dynamics of the game (or any game).
Second, we should acknowledge the good aspects of NS1; in this case, a shift in dynamics caused by alien tech progression (leap).
Clearly, leap is being suggested as a native ability to help alleviate the pain of castrating bunny hopping. This might be an acceptable solution, but they must acknowledge that they are removing one of the games greatest tech progressions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Leap is not an inherently offensive ability, it is offensive in NS1.
My point was your making a lot of assumptions. While they share the same name (leap) we don't know what part of the mechanics have changed or stayed the same and what impact this will have on thing in the big picture, something we also don't know much about. All I'm asking is a little bit less speculation and a little bit more discussion on information we actually have.
The unknownworlds website will now go down for 18 months without explanation.
Also the 18 month thing was due to database issues after a malicious injection, which was explained.
the first thing that came into my head was the game "dead space". there are so called "swarms" which grapple you in packs and do damage over time.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxV0ounoSIA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxV0ounoSIA</a>
another enemy type is the "worm"
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYNYsd3PKxo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYNYsd3PKxo</a>
you have to kill the worm by shooting the yellow thing. it's difficult because you move the mouse relative to the position of the player position (not the camera position) so you need a bit of skill...
-
combining that means: a skulk is grapple you and then the view changes to 3rd person and then you have to try to shot him or stab him with your knife.
just an idea...
I mean you use the two together and I always found switching between the two attacks very fiddly in NS1. The point of having secondary firemodes aside from being able to use less art for more stuff is that they compliment the primary fire, otherwise you just make a new gun.
I can't see why a grapple attack would need to be combined with the bite attack, one deals damage, the other immobilises people, but you presumably can't use the two simultaneously or one after the other.
Leap however is usually used in combination with bite, or xenocide, or just generally a close range damage dealer, so you would use leap to get close, bite people, and then maybe again to get away afterwards. It makes sense therefore to have it on the same weapon as the main close range damage dealer, or just the general main skulk weapon.
You can add in other abilities if you like but a bit of convenience in performing some of the more complex maneuvers would help make the skulk less annoying to play for people who aren't alien experts.
Oh yes and also some more ambush abilities would be nice, in NS1 I thought the skulk would be a perfect ambush class, you hide in the ceiling somewhere and drop into marines as they go by, but I never managed to do it well, I always ended up chasing them around and biting them rather than the stealthy approach I thought would work, so some sort of assistance in that area would be nice, maybe if you attack someone from above it gives you a bit of auto aim to help hit them as long as you're fairly accurate to begin with, or maybe do more damage considering you just bit their face off.
the first thing that came into my head was the game "dead space". there are so called "swarms" which grapple you in packs and do damage over time.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxV0ounoSIA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxV0ounoSIA</a>
another enemy type is the "worm"
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYNYsd3PKxo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYNYsd3PKxo</a>
you have to kill the worm by shooting the yellow thing. it's difficult because you move the mouse relative to the position of the player position (not the camera position) so you need a bit of skill...
-
combining that means: a skulk is grapple you and then the view changes to 3rd person and then you have to try to shot him or stab him with your knife.
just an idea...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cool but not for an online game, I mean while you try to kill the skulk any other kharaa can kill you and same for the skulk that can be killed by any othr marine
Thanks, Cool game
Could you perhaps do one, if not BOTH of the following?
1. Have a key bound to "climb" so you can climb on demand, not by just touching a wall. This way, you can also not accidentally fall down.
2. Have a camera -OPTION- to actually change according to which angle you're hanging/climbing from. So, if you're on the ceiling, it looks like it's the floor to you. You can get a lot more control this way.
Here's an example of this. Ignore the annoying "vision mode" the alien player uses, but you can somewhat see how you can climb on surfaces and your view reflects this change.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLEqCFvOSMU&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLEqCFvOSMU...feature=related</a>