Yeah does look a bit like a dog. Interestingly I actually found myself liking that aspect given that skulks often behave like a pack of dogs. Though each to his own preference i guess...
I was thinking more of vicious come-any-closer-and-ill-bite-your-head-off kind of dog rather than one id want to take for a walk though! :P
I like the idea of having a DoT. something like maybe a stronger attack where it leaves teeth in the Marine that does DoT... the teeth eventually fall out and do less damage as each one falls out... I dunno... I dont think having a ranged attack fits into the skulk really.
For the grapple attack, maybe you could have the marine immobile but he would be able to use his knife to kill the skulk with. Also, you could have other marines come and help pry off or kill the skulk from the victim. Lookin good so far
I'll repost these instructions since people have magically missed this and continue to suck at NS1: 1. Start NS 2. Get on a server where aliens have 2 hives or more. 3. Join aliens. 4. Press R. If you've rebound your reloadkey, press corresponding key to reload. 5. Realize that removing secondary fire when +movement already exists is dumb.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->lol... I was expecting a "priceless" joke.
Anyway, I don't get how so many forum goers missed out on +movement. It's seems enough to make UWE place leap alt-fire in NS2.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Charlie in Email today)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Charlie in Email today)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We actually decided to move "leap" to his bite alternate fire after hearing how you all felt about it!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I died inside a little today.
I don't have any recommendations for the alternate bite attack, but my vote definitely goes for the grapple, it just seems right.
I would however like to add a bit to the pervasive ducts and vents. I see that there is lighting going TO the vents which is only fair. But I'm wondering if there will be any kind of light source emanating FROM the vents. Basically what I'm going for here is lets say a group of marines are walking down a hallway and on the floor they can see the lights and the shades of a vent on the ceiling shining down onto the floor, and inside the duct there is a few skulks running along with them, so each time they pass a vent they can see the shadows of skulks-following them from above-onto the floor. This might be a disadvantage to the aliens, and I'm not sure how dynamic the lighting will actually be, but I think this would look REALLY cool and it will add to the horror/suspense aspect of the game which was my favorite part of NS1. This might not be as succinct as I'm hoping here, but it's hard to put into words what I'm envisioning in my head lol. Either way I bet it will look amazing!
<!--quoteo(post=1722459:date=Aug 13 2009, 01:51 PM:name=Dead-Inside)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dead-Inside @ Aug 13 2009, 01:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722459"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"QUOTE (Charlie in Email today) We actually decided to move "leap" to his bite alternate fire after hearing how you all felt about it!"
Somehow I feel I want my money back. Dead serious. Why would you do this? What are you going to have for +movement?
The whole reason people "felt" this way is because they've missed out on +movement and are requesting exactly that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Remember, this is NS2 not NS1, don't judge the game before you can even play based on twitter and content updates. I bet 5 minutes in testing you'll not even notice the missing NS1 binding and instead be using the alternative NS2 binding and wanting to find and edit this post out for your over paranoia.
My assumption is that +movement comes standard for all aliens. Fade has blink, onos has charge, skulk has leap, gorge IDK, possibly healspray, possibly the much beloved suggestion for bellysliding. No idea about the lerk.
Basically Flayra asked for a SECOND ABILITY, not "Do you want +movement?" because obviously this is (or was, at least) already in. Instead he got "Omfg I want something like exactly what +movement is in NS1 that I've never used and didn't know existed and haven't realized was already in NS2!!! Pleeeeease put it on alternate fire, we don't need anything else but to be able to just bind a key to +movement which I don't even know aobut!!! So put it on alt fire ya? Good ty", and apparently ... they went with it for some unexplainable reason. Please rethink.
<!--quoteo(post=1722470:date=Aug 12 2009, 10:30 PM:name=Dead-Inside)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dead-Inside @ Aug 12 2009, 10:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722470"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not my paranoia.
My assumption is that +movement comes standard for all aliens. Fade has blink, onos has charge, skulk has leap, gorge IDK, possibly healspray, possibly the much beloved suggestion for bellysliding. No idea about the lerk.
Basically Flayra asked for a SECOND ABILITY, not "Do you want +movement?" because obviously this is (or was, at least) already in. Instead he got "Omfg I want something like exactly what +movement is in NS1 that I've never used and didn't know existed and haven't realized was already in NS2!!! Pleeeeease put it on alternate fire, we don't need anything else but to be able to just bind a key to +movement which I don't even know aobut!!! So put it on alt fire ya? Good ty", and apparently ... they went with it for some unexplainable reason. Please rethink.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
Please keep +movement standard and leap for skulks as a second hive ability at full speed with air control. We know it is not easy but something less than that is crap and you know it.
i think this would be good as alt fire has any 1 thought of having SCURRY/FASTRUN ? sumthing allong the lines of onos charge but for skulk ? i think this would go down a treat , its a new game it needs diffrent things , otherwise we will end up with a exact replica of ns1 on a better engine ? whats the point ?
<!--quoteo(post=1721049:date=Aug 6 2009, 06:31 PM:name=Alienami)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Alienami @ Aug 6 2009, 06:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721049"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the idea of a DoT that does more damage than Parasite. Or a sensory impairment. Perhaps the get hit with the new Parasite and they see 3 Skulks when it is only one? Start seeing odd things like that or something. hehehe<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really like the the Sensory Impairment suggestion. The Skulk could fire some short term poison at the marine, which cause him to see double or blurry or faded or something. Essentially making it harder to see and shot the skulk trying to bite his face.
#1. Resource transfer Allows the skulk to transfer it's personal resources to another player. A third party add-on already does this via text command, makes it easier hive building with many low income skulks lurking around. (Only allowed for stored resources from kills*)
#2. Detection sharing The skulk alt bites a friendly Kharaa to transfer sighted structures to the other ones mind for a short period of time. The color of the structure through a wall will determine how recent the report is, with red being most recent and blue least recent. Color fades from red to blue over time. Great for revealing turret nests, active resource towers and overall base structure. Also gives the skulk some of his scouting usefulness back.
#3. Instant Stop It makes the skulk stop dead when it alt bites something stationary like a wall or roof, allowing it to regret a leap midair if danger is detected at the expected landing area and allows it to instantly turn around to jump the other way.
#4. Tearing attack Deliver a dynamic bite which inflicts damage across all targets while button is pressed. Tear down a structure (still noisy) without constantly biting, brief latch on/off.
#5.Friendly Latch-on Latch on to friendly Kharaa, provides speedy escape on a fade/lerk or cover from an onos. (Adds own health and/or armor to host to be shared*)
#6. Suction Suck/absorb health and/or energy from organic structures. Boosts regeneration rate. Does not damage structure. (Cost resources for rapid recovery*)
I must agree, this new model got me extremely excited! Fantastic job on the texture and animation. It looks extremely convincing that the model is realistic.
In regards to the secondary fire... I very much agree with leap being the alternative fire.... However, I think the with those massive spiked limbs of the skulk, when leaping/pouncing the skulk should attach to the marine for a short time if the leap is successful. Once attached the skulk has a couple of seconds to munch away then is immediately detached and returned to the ground.
I think this would be extremely exciting... reason? Jetpack marines flying around, if a player perfects the leap attack, he/she can successfully leap and attach to a jet packing marine and take him down. Skulk vs Jetpack Marine in NS1 = Jetpack Marine Win 98% of the time. With this idea, Skulk vs Jetpack Marine in NS2 = 50/50 chance :D
Leap should be bindable directly to a key, separate from any other attack or weapon/ability slot, as should all movement abilities.
It shouldn't be "bite alt fire" because then you have to switch to the "bite/leap" ability before you can use it. Then we have the same problem we had originally. Think in terms of the <!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->number of keypresses<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> from a random slot needed to accomplish the simple task of combining two abilities.
To leap and bite: <!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->4 Clicks<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->: with leap as a separate ability on a separate "slot", you need to press leapslot then Lclick then biteslot then Rclick. <!--coloro:lime--><span style="color:lime"><!--/coloro-->3 Clicks<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->: with leap as a +movement skill, you need to press biteslot, Rclick, Lclick <!--coloro:lime--><span style="color:lime"><!--/coloro-->3 Clicks<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->: with leap as bite alt-fire, you need to press biteslot, Rclick, Lclick
Clearly, +movement or bite alt-fire are superior to separate slots. BUT what if you want to use leap and parasite together, e.g. to leap run away and turn around and parasite as you pass around the corner? Or leap across an intersection as you parasite marines down the hallway?
To leap and parasite: <!--coloro:lime--><span style="color:lime"><!--/coloro-->3 Clicks<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->: with leap as a +movement skill, you need to press paraslot, Rclick, Lclick <!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->4 Clicks<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->: with leap as bite alt-fire, you need to press biteslot, Rclick, paraslot, Lclick
As I have said before, the devs must make the distinction between actions that are mutually exclusive to other actions, and those which are not. Movement abilities like leap must not be exclusive to any other abilities. The weapon slots paradigm is too limiting, even when they're "overloaded" slots with alt-fire.
<!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->Leap should not be alt-fire.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I don't understand why you decided to make leap the alt-fire ability for bite. +movement is/was widely accepted in NS. I can't remember any major complaints about it and it was very welcome and an improvement to the pre 3.0 system (standard weapon slot). Leap is needed ALL THE TIME in NS1 and based on the official statements about skulk movement in NS2 it's going to stay that way. Did you forget that +movement replaced the alt-fire leap in NS1? You fixed a problem and now you are reintroducing it?!
<!--quoteo(post=1722602:date=Aug 13 2009, 07:25 AM:name=vizionz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vizionz @ Aug 13 2009, 07:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722602"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Skulk vs Jetpack Marine in NS1 = Jetpack Marine Win 98% of the time. With this idea, Skulk vs Jetpack Marine in NS2 = 50/50 chance :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is a huge problem with that... Jetpacks are suppose to have the advantage. The entire premise of the NS game is strategically advance against the enemy team securing important locations, upgrading to higher lifeforms/advance technology quicker than the other team, and ultimately win the game.
It would be ridiculous for marines to put that much effort into teching up to jetpack just to have a 50/50 chance against a skulk. (I wouldn't want to imagine the chance for a lerk or even fade in that scenario).
Its suppose to be challenging for a skulk to kill a jper.
<!--quoteo(post=1722608:date=Aug 13 2009, 08:18 AM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (juice @ Aug 13 2009, 08:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722608"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It shouldn't be "bite alt fire" because then you have to switch to the "bite/leap" ability before you can use it. Then we have the same problem we had originally. Think in terms of the <!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->number of keypresses<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> from a random slot needed to accomplish the simple task of combining two abilities.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
'We're still not sure what his alt-fire for Bite is going to be... Please give us some suggestions.'
I think I have a good one; Have the ALt-Bite do two things: For starters, it knocks back the Marine maybe a few feet and momentarily stuns him - as if kicked by the legs of a Giant GrassHopper - and in the same moment instigates the Leap function for the Skulk, placing the Skulk some 20? 30? feet back/away from the Marine and possibly in a stance that still faces the Marine, ready to leap back upon the marine. The Damage from such a function would be minimal if at all, the objective giving a momentary respite for the Skulk, say as a more defensive function than a destructive one. Since there is no real or heavy damage occuring, it would not particularly benefit the skulk player to Alt-Bite/stun then leap back and do it again for any length of time, as the Skulk could never kill the Marine doing this. Yet as a Defensive and viable function, this could allow the Skulk to possibly escape by stunning the one Marine it's chomping if say a few other Marines were just coming around the corner and it needed/wanted to do so. Likewise, two skulks working together could fair quite well - especially if the marine team is not sticking together, and/or the skulk could use the Alt-Bite to keep a Marine at bay while a larger of the Alien Beasts came to finish the job (or allow the slow-firing defensive towers of a fatty to finish the Marine off). I dunno - you prolly already considered this, but I thought I'd mention it here.
Hello everyone, I signed up just so I could post my thoughts on the Skulk revamp.
Let's look at the facts; The skulk has bite, it has leap, it has leap from the get-go, it's possible leap will last for a shorter distance, Xeno and parasite sound like they may have been dropped. Now we know where we are exactly with the Skulk, so I'll give my thoughts on the situation.
I never understood why Leap was not the alternate fire of bite in the original Natural-Selection, but from what I can remember from my NS 1.0 days there wasn't any alternate fire at all, in fact the +special command was replaced by the in-game command menu. I think the development team should understand the advantages of having Leap bindable to a key or button by default, without the need for custom scripts. Leap is a big part of a Skulks movement and as such deserves "on click" behavior as opposed to being it's own selectable skill like it currently is, now ideally this would be as Bites alternate fire. The fact that in-combat Leaps are usually quickly followed by a Bite, and vise-versa, it's obvious that leap should be the alternate fire of Bite. Most people also use Leap as a means to navigate the map, not just in combat, which is even more reason to give it the "on click" behavior an thus the alternate fire of Bite, it gives you the ability to attack without having to switch weapons if you unexpectedly run into trouble. Yes, I know that at the moment it is only 3 button presses away, and with the console command cl_fastswitch only two button presses away, but hell, if you could have it one button press away, why not? It increases accessibility threefold.
Now, with Parasite and Xeno looking like they have dropped I think Skulks now become a one trick pony, this encourages evolution, which I consider a good thing, as I would presume the whole point of the evolution tree would be to use it. Although, having said that, I really did like Parasite, and unless you are a lonely Marine trapped in a vent parasited, I think most peopled liked parasite too. It's not just the fact you can see enemies through walls, but also that great feeling you get when you kill somebody with it. It's like killing somebody with melee in most shooters, but even better. Not just that, but it also added another teamwork dimension, well for me at least. If I felt that the inevitable was going to happen, and that the incoming Marine was going to kill me, you'd simple parasite them for one of your buddies to kill them or at least be alerted of their presence. This whole dimension will be lost if parasite goes.
What are your reasons for removing parasite? If it is an engine limit or the time it would take to implement, I am totally understanding, but if you are removing it because of a balance issue, hold your horses! There are ways of balancing it, an upgraded armory could heal the parasite, or the commander could drop a vaccine, come to think of it, the commander dropping a vaccine isn't a bad idea as it sounds to me that the commander doesn't have quite as much to do in this instance of the game, well from what I have read anyway.
If indeed Parasite is removed, I definately think Skulks should have a similar move to replace it. Whilst Skulk is the most basic form of the aliens, I don't think it should be limited to a movement based skill and what is essentially just a melee weapon. I have seen a "Damage over Time" long-range skill being mentioned in the thread. I think the concept of this would be very similar to the parasite, only without of the initial small burst of damage and then the advantage of seeing through walls, instead the move would remove, let's just say for now, 30HP over 20 seconds? Just a small "infection" Whilst this sounds like a rather weak amount of damage, it gives that extra "Umph" for Skulks which they would lose if Parasite goes and some form of similar distance attack wasn't implemented. This move would use up all the Skulks Adrenaline so it couldn't be spammed, otherwise it would be lethal, and I see no reason why it couldn't be healed by an advanced armoury or a kind Commander with a Medpack. This infection would also be useful as a cheap-way of hearing incoming Marines as everytime the infection removes some more health the Marine could make the classic "Uh" noise, informing the Skulk that a Marine is near by, and it's possible they are heavily weakened by a previous attack, much like Parasite did. Hell, to make it more annoying to the Marines, near the levels Parasite was, the infection could be spread among other Marines, think Team Fortress Classic's method of infection spreading, basic contact with another infected Marines... but hey, I'm just rambling now.
Ultimately, I just don't want Skulks to lose their long distance attack, but I definately do think the long-range attack should be kept to a similar mould as Parasite was, as first and fore most, Skulks are up-close and personal. So either a small percentage of health is lost, or some bonus similar to Parasite is received.
<!--quoteo(post=1722771:date=Aug 14 2009, 04:03 AM:name=LesbianSeagull)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LesbianSeagull @ Aug 14 2009, 04:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722771"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the development team should understand the advantages of having Leap bindable to a key or button by default, without the need for custom scripts. Leap is a big part of a Skulks movement and as such deserves "on click" behavior as opposed to being it's own selectable skill like it currently is, now ideally this would be as Bites alternate fire.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But that's not how it currently is. Leap is bindable to its own key since NS 3.0. Makes me think that most people who suggested leap as alt-fire just haven't played NS in a while.
<!--quoteo(post=1722842:date=Aug 14 2009, 11:27 AM:name=Razagal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Razagal @ Aug 14 2009, 11:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722842"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But that's not how it currently is. Leap is bindable to its own key since NS 3.0. Makes me think that most people who suggested leap as alt-fire just haven't played NS in a while.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I haven't played since 2.0 beta, I don't know how long ago that is if I am honest but I always remember having to swap weapons to use leap, and that to counter this I had a script bound to mouse5, I'm sorry if that has since changed, but atleast it shows that Unkown Worlds felt the same way I did about LEap. Either way Razagal, it doesn't take away any of the other reasons for it to be the alternate-fire to bite, I think it's just a logical implementation.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
edited August 2009
<!--quoteo(post=1722886:date=Aug 14 2009, 01:15 PM:name=LesbianSeagull)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LesbianSeagull @ Aug 14 2009, 01:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722886"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I haven't played since 2.0 beta, I don't know how long ago that is if I am honest but I always remember having to swap weapons to use leap, and that to counter this I had a script bound to mouse5, I'm sorry if that has since changed, but atleast it shows that Unkown Worlds felt the same way I did about LEap. Either way Razagal, it doesn't take away any of the other reasons for it to be the alternate-fire to bite, I think it's just a logical implementation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The problem is +mvt is better because it is consistent across lifeforms AND abilities. Also, putting leap as alt-fire removes the possibility of an actual leap or bite alt-fire.
<!--quoteo(post=1722886:date=Aug 14 2009, 12:15 PM:name=LesbianSeagull)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LesbianSeagull @ Aug 14 2009, 12:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722886"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Either way Razagal, it doesn't take away any of the other reasons for it to be the alternate-fire to bite.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It doesn't change why it's better than having a seperate weapon slot, but +movement is a clear example of an even better answer than the alt-fire approach. It's a seperate key that works across all aliens and in all situations, not just as an alt-fire on specific weapons. While +movement is multipurpose and robust, alt-firing from the most common weapon seems like a half hearted afterthought solution in comparison.
Alt firing is a little better than weapon switching, +movement is significantly better than both and has even been tried and tested already. No-one who's used it can see any reason for it to regress to alt-fire because it worked so smoothly.
Quick fire example, alt-fire leap doesn't do squat to make xeno-leap more intuitive, +movement does.
I said this in other threads - not sure if I said in this one, but just have +sprint of the marine also activate alien movement abilities. The key binding will already exist and will be placed in a convenient location.
The animations look good, but I'm just not sure about the size of the head. It almost seems too small for me. Can you guys try an iteration on us with a larger, more menacing, head?
Personally I would prefer the parasite ability not be taken away. It was fun and funny to watch a bunch of marines be paranoid at the start of a match and hear a skulk chuckle in a nearby vent. Oh and please don't include combat mode in NS2. No offense but it blew chunks over the beauty of having raw NS1 4+ hour matches.
Best of luck,
A loyal supporter and player of NS1 since October 31, 2002
<!--quoteo(post=1722894:date=Aug 14 2009, 01:05 PM:name=Sirot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sirot @ Aug 14 2009, 01:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722894"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I said this in other threads - not sure if I said in this one, but just have +sprint of the marine also activate alien movement abilities. The key binding will already exist and will be placed in a convenient location.
Everybody wins.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think it should be universal for both sides. I used leap as a mouse button and I usually bind sprinting to shift, alt or ctrl. They may still add a console command to wrap it up, or you could just script it yourself.
I'm pretty sure parasite is made redundant by an alien commander ability, so why have it? Also, goading is only possible by having a slight annoyance imposed. If they keep a distance attack for the skulk in, it should do something, but not do more than 10 hp of damage. 10 or more armor damage I wouldn't mind, as it would make less hits required to kill the 'rine, but it could also be repaired by their teammates. This could aid other aliens as well, and could be noted via model/gear differences on the rines or a particle or hud effect that appears for the aliens. (not seen through walls, ofc)
I was also thinking the range attack could confuse the marines controls slightly, making directions apply differently, (WASD jumbled) or weapon keys responding oddly ("primary" key selects knife, knife selects secondary, etc.). This is a huge divergence from parasite behavior, as it's not an external threat but an internal one, but it's just an idea.
I have a few unrelated ideas below: Make a grenade key that throws the researched puppies. With a GL attached to your LMG/HMG, you could use the grenade key to fire the GL, while still having secondary fire work the close range magic.
If they stay selectable: a)Nades could be detonated, so that two RTs could be damaged at the same time, or other such tactics. b)You could set a custom fuse time (let the player make 6 custom timers before-hand to be selectable via pie menu) with alt-fire. A fuse time could be double-clicked to set it for both the current and next nade in sequence, and they would apply even after switching weapons, but could be changed at any time before being thrown. c)Both functions: detonate with secondary after throwing, or let fuse (set before throw) run out.
Make pack drops retainable, so that one of either a med or cat (whichever is picked up) could be stored for later use with a button press. Players could set meds to automatic use when less than full hp or at a threshold (>=70hp). I'm not sure if cats are coming to NS2, so this may be slightly less applicable.
Comments
I was thinking more of vicious come-any-closer-and-ill-bite-your-head-off kind of dog rather than one id want to take for a walk though! :P
I'll repost these instructions since people have magically missed this and continue to suck at NS1:
1. Start NS
2. Get on a server where aliens have 2 hives or more.
3. Join aliens.
4. Press R. If you've rebound your reloadkey, press corresponding key to reload.
5. Realize that removing secondary fire when +movement already exists is dumb.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->lol... I was expecting a "priceless" joke.
Anyway, I don't get how so many forum goers missed out on +movement. It's seems enough to make UWE place leap alt-fire in NS2.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Charlie in Email today)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Charlie in Email today)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We actually decided to move "leap" to his bite alternate fire after hearing how you all felt about it!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I died inside a little today.
I don't have any recommendations for the alternate bite attack, but my vote definitely goes for the grapple, it just seems right.
I would however like to add a bit to the pervasive ducts and vents. I see that there is lighting going TO the vents which is only fair. But I'm wondering if there will be any kind of light source emanating FROM the vents. Basically what I'm going for here is lets say a group of marines are walking down a hallway and on the floor they can see the lights and the shades of a vent on the ceiling shining down onto the floor, and inside the duct there is a few skulks running along with them, so each time they pass a vent they can see the shadows of skulks-following them from above-onto the floor. This might be a disadvantage to the aliens, and I'm not sure how dynamic the lighting will actually be, but I think this would look REALLY cool and it will add to the horror/suspense aspect of the game which was my favorite part of NS1. This might not be as succinct as I'm hoping here, but it's hard to put into words what I'm envisioning in my head lol. Either way I bet it will look amazing!
Cheers
We actually decided to move "leap" to his bite alternate fire after hearing how you all felt about it!"
Somehow I feel I want my money back. Dead serious. Why would you do this? What are you going to have for +movement?
The whole reason people "felt" this way is because they've missed out on +movement and are requesting exactly that.
We actually decided to move "leap" to his bite alternate fire after hearing how you all felt about it!"
Somehow I feel I want my money back. Dead serious. Why would you do this? What are you going to have for +movement?
The whole reason people "felt" this way is because they've missed out on +movement and are requesting exactly that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Remember, this is NS2 not NS1, don't judge the game before you can even play based on twitter and content updates.
I bet 5 minutes in testing you'll not even notice the missing NS1 binding and instead be using the alternative NS2 binding and wanting to find and edit this post out for your over paranoia.
My assumption is that +movement comes standard for all aliens. Fade has blink, onos has charge, skulk has leap, gorge IDK, possibly healspray, possibly the much beloved suggestion for bellysliding. No idea about the lerk.
Basically Flayra asked for a SECOND ABILITY, not "Do you want +movement?" because obviously this is (or was, at least) already in. Instead he got "Omfg I want something like exactly what +movement is in NS1 that I've never used and didn't know existed and haven't realized was already in NS2!!! Pleeeeease put it on alternate fire, we don't need anything else but to be able to just bind a key to +movement which I don't even know aobut!!! So put it on alt fire ya? Good ty", and apparently ... they went with it for some unexplainable reason. Please rethink.
My assumption is that +movement comes standard for all aliens. Fade has blink, onos has charge, skulk has leap, gorge IDK, possibly healspray, possibly the much beloved suggestion for bellysliding. No idea about the lerk.
Basically Flayra asked for a SECOND ABILITY, not "Do you want +movement?" because obviously this is (or was, at least) already in. Instead he got "Omfg I want something like exactly what +movement is in NS1 that I've never used and didn't know existed and haven't realized was already in NS2!!! Pleeeeease put it on alternate fire, we don't need anything else but to be able to just bind a key to +movement which I don't even know aobut!!! So put it on alt fire ya? Good ty", and apparently ... they went with it for some unexplainable reason. Please rethink.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
Please keep +movement standard and leap for skulks as a second hive ability at full speed with air control. We know it is not easy but something less than that is crap and you know it.
i think this would be good as alt fire
has any 1 thought of having SCURRY/FASTRUN ? sumthing allong the lines of onos charge but for skulk ? i think this would go down a treat , its a new game it needs diffrent things , otherwise we will end up with a exact replica of ns1 on a better engine ? whats the point ?
I really like the the Sensory Impairment suggestion. The Skulk could fire some short term poison at the marine, which cause him to see double or blurry or faded or something. Essentially making it harder to see and shot the skulk trying to bite his face.
*Speculated add-on
#1. Resource transfer
Allows the skulk to transfer it's personal resources to another player. A third party add-on already does this via text command, makes it easier hive building with many low income skulks lurking around.
(Only allowed for stored resources from kills*)
#2. Detection sharing
The skulk alt bites a friendly Kharaa to transfer sighted structures to the other ones mind for a short period of time. The color of the structure through a wall will determine how recent the report is, with red being most recent and blue least recent. Color fades from red to blue over time. Great for revealing turret nests, active resource towers and overall base structure. Also gives the skulk some of his scouting usefulness back.
#3. Instant Stop
It makes the skulk stop dead when it alt bites something stationary like a wall or roof, allowing it to regret a leap midair if danger is detected at the expected landing area and allows it to instantly turn around to jump the other way.
#4. Tearing attack
Deliver a dynamic bite which inflicts damage across all targets while button is pressed.
Tear down a structure (still noisy) without constantly biting, brief latch on/off.
#5.Friendly Latch-on
Latch on to friendly Kharaa, provides speedy escape on a fade/lerk or cover from an onos. (Adds own health and/or armor to host to be shared*)
#6. Suction
Suck/absorb health and/or energy from organic structures. Boosts regeneration rate. Does not damage structure. (Cost resources for rapid recovery*)
In regards to the secondary fire... I very much agree with leap being the alternative fire.... However, I think the with those massive spiked limbs of the skulk, when leaping/pouncing the skulk should attach to the marine for a short time if the leap is successful. Once attached the skulk has a couple of seconds to munch away then is immediately detached and returned to the ground.
I think this would be extremely exciting... reason? Jetpack marines flying around, if a player perfects the leap attack, he/she can successfully leap and attach to a jet packing marine and take him down. Skulk vs Jetpack Marine in NS1 = Jetpack Marine Win 98% of the time. With this idea, Skulk vs Jetpack Marine in NS2 = 50/50 chance :D
It shouldn't be "bite alt fire" because then you have to switch to the "bite/leap" ability before you can use it. Then we have the same problem we had originally. Think in terms of the <!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->number of keypresses<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> from a random slot needed to accomplish the simple task of combining two abilities.
To leap and bite:
<!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->4 Clicks<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->: with leap as a separate ability on a separate "slot", you need to press leapslot then Lclick then biteslot then Rclick.
<!--coloro:lime--><span style="color:lime"><!--/coloro-->3 Clicks<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->: with leap as a +movement skill, you need to press biteslot, Rclick, Lclick
<!--coloro:lime--><span style="color:lime"><!--/coloro-->3 Clicks<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->: with leap as bite alt-fire, you need to press biteslot, Rclick, Lclick
Clearly, +movement or bite alt-fire are superior to separate slots.
BUT what if you want to use leap and parasite together, e.g. to leap run away and turn around and parasite as you pass around the corner? Or leap across an intersection as you parasite marines down the hallway?
To leap and parasite:
<!--coloro:lime--><span style="color:lime"><!--/coloro-->3 Clicks<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->: with leap as a +movement skill, you need to press paraslot, Rclick, Lclick
<!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->4 Clicks<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->: with leap as bite alt-fire, you need to press biteslot, Rclick, paraslot, Lclick
As I have said before, the devs must make the distinction between actions that are mutually exclusive to other actions, and those which are not. Movement abilities like leap must not be exclusive to any other abilities. The weapon slots paradigm is too limiting, even when they're "overloaded" slots with alt-fire.
<!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->Leap should not be alt-fire.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
+movement is/was widely accepted in NS. I can't remember any major complaints about it and it was very welcome and an improvement to the pre 3.0 system (standard weapon slot).
Leap is needed ALL THE TIME in NS1 and based on the official statements about skulk movement in NS2 it's going to stay that way.
Did you forget that +movement replaced the alt-fire leap in NS1?
You fixed a problem and now you are reintroducing it?!
There is a huge problem with that... Jetpacks are suppose to have the advantage. The entire premise of the NS game is strategically advance against the enemy team securing important locations, upgrading to higher lifeforms/advance technology quicker than the other team, and ultimately win the game.
It would be ridiculous for marines to put that much effort into teching up to jetpack just to have a 50/50 chance against a skulk. (I wouldn't want to imagine the chance for a lerk or even fade in that scenario).
Its suppose to be challenging for a skulk to kill a jper.
Agree fully
I think I have a good one;
Have the ALt-Bite do two things:
For starters, it knocks back the Marine maybe a few feet and momentarily stuns him - as if kicked by the legs of a Giant GrassHopper - and in the same moment instigates the Leap function for the Skulk, placing the Skulk some 20? 30? feet back/away from the Marine and possibly in a stance that still faces the Marine, ready to leap back upon the marine. The Damage from such a function would be minimal if at all, the objective giving a momentary respite for the Skulk, say as a more defensive function than a destructive one. Since there is no real or heavy damage occuring, it would not particularly benefit the skulk player to Alt-Bite/stun then leap back and do it again for any length of time, as the Skulk could never kill the Marine doing this. Yet as a Defensive and viable function, this could allow the Skulk to possibly escape by stunning the one Marine it's chomping if say a few other Marines were just coming around the corner and it needed/wanted to do so. Likewise, two skulks working together could fair quite well - especially if the marine team is not sticking together, and/or the skulk could use the Alt-Bite to keep a Marine at bay while a larger of the Alien Beasts came to finish the job (or allow the slow-firing defensive towers of a fatty to finish the Marine off).
I dunno - you prolly already considered this, but I thought I'd mention it here.
Let's look at the facts; The skulk has bite, it has leap, it has leap from the get-go, it's possible leap will last for a shorter distance, Xeno and parasite sound like they may have been dropped. Now we know where we are exactly with the Skulk, so I'll give my thoughts on the situation.
I never understood why Leap was not the alternate fire of bite in the original Natural-Selection, but from what I can remember from my NS 1.0 days there wasn't any alternate fire at all, in fact the +special command was replaced by the in-game command menu. I think the development team should understand the advantages of having Leap bindable to a key or button by default, without the need for custom scripts. Leap is a big part of a Skulks movement and as such deserves "on click" behavior as opposed to being it's own selectable skill like it currently is, now ideally this would be as Bites alternate fire. The fact that in-combat Leaps are usually quickly followed by a Bite, and vise-versa, it's obvious that leap should be the alternate fire of Bite. Most people also use Leap as a means to navigate the map, not just in combat, which is even more reason to give it the "on click" behavior an thus the alternate fire of Bite, it gives you the ability to attack without having to switch weapons if you unexpectedly run into trouble. Yes, I know that at the moment it is only 3 button presses away, and with the console command cl_fastswitch only two button presses away, but hell, if you could have it one button press away, why not? It increases accessibility threefold.
Now, with Parasite and Xeno looking like they have dropped I think Skulks now become a one trick pony, this encourages evolution, which I consider a good thing, as I would presume the whole point of the evolution tree would be to use it. Although, having said that, I really did like Parasite, and unless you are a lonely Marine trapped in a vent parasited, I think most peopled liked parasite too. It's not just the fact you can see enemies through walls, but also that great feeling you get when you kill somebody with it. It's like killing somebody with melee in most shooters, but even better. Not just that, but it also added another teamwork dimension, well for me at least. If I felt that the inevitable was going to happen, and that the incoming Marine was going to kill me, you'd simple parasite them for one of your buddies to kill them or at least be alerted of their presence. This whole dimension will be lost if parasite goes.
What are your reasons for removing parasite? If it is an engine limit or the time it would take to implement, I am totally understanding, but if you are removing it because of a balance issue, hold your horses! There are ways of balancing it, an upgraded armory could heal the parasite, or the commander could drop a vaccine, come to think of it, the commander dropping a vaccine isn't a bad idea as it sounds to me that the commander doesn't have quite as much to do in this instance of the game, well from what I have read anyway.
If indeed Parasite is removed, I definately think Skulks should have a similar move to replace it. Whilst Skulk is the most basic form of the aliens, I don't think it should be limited to a movement based skill and what is essentially just a melee weapon. I have seen a "Damage over Time" long-range skill being mentioned in the thread. I think the concept of this would be very similar to the parasite, only without of the initial small burst of damage and then the advantage of seeing through walls, instead the move would remove, let's just say for now, 30HP over 20 seconds? Just a small "infection" Whilst this sounds like a rather weak amount of damage, it gives that extra "Umph" for Skulks which they would lose if Parasite goes and some form of similar distance attack wasn't implemented. This move would use up all the Skulks Adrenaline so it couldn't be spammed, otherwise it would be lethal, and I see no reason why it couldn't be healed by an advanced armoury or a kind Commander with a Medpack. This infection would also be useful as a cheap-way of hearing incoming Marines as everytime the infection removes some more health the Marine could make the classic "Uh" noise, informing the Skulk that a Marine is near by, and it's possible they are heavily weakened by a previous attack, much like Parasite did. Hell, to make it more annoying to the Marines, near the levels Parasite was, the infection could be spread among other Marines, think Team Fortress Classic's method of infection spreading, basic contact with another infected Marines... but hey, I'm just rambling now.
Ultimately, I just don't want Skulks to lose their long distance attack, but I definately do think the long-range attack should be kept to a similar mould as Parasite was, as first and fore most, Skulks are up-close and personal. So either a small percentage of health is lost, or some bonus similar to Parasite is received.
But that's not how it currently is.
Leap is bindable to its own key since NS 3.0.
Makes me think that most people who suggested leap as alt-fire just haven't played NS in a while.
Leap is bindable to its own key since NS 3.0.
Makes me think that most people who suggested leap as alt-fire just haven't played NS in a while.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I haven't played since 2.0 beta, I don't know how long ago that is if I am honest but I always remember having to swap weapons to use leap, and that to counter this I had a script bound to mouse5, I'm sorry if that has since changed, but atleast it shows that Unkown Worlds felt the same way I did about LEap. Either way Razagal, it doesn't take away any of the other reasons for it to be the alternate-fire to bite, I think it's just a logical implementation.
The problem is +mvt is better because it is consistent across lifeforms AND abilities. Also, putting leap as alt-fire removes the possibility of an actual leap or bite alt-fire.
It doesn't change why it's better than having a seperate weapon slot, but +movement is a clear example of an even better answer than the alt-fire approach. It's a seperate key that works across all aliens and in all situations, not just as an alt-fire on specific weapons. While +movement is multipurpose and robust, alt-firing from the most common weapon seems like a half hearted afterthought solution in comparison.
Alt firing is a little better than weapon switching, +movement is significantly better than both and has even been tried and tested already. No-one who's used it can see any reason for it to regress to alt-fire because it worked so smoothly.
Quick fire example, alt-fire leap doesn't do squat to make xeno-leap more intuitive, +movement does.
Everybody wins.
Best of luck,
A loyal supporter and player of NS1 since October 31, 2002
Everybody wins.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think it should be universal for both sides. I used leap as a mouse button and I usually bind sprinting to shift, alt or ctrl. They may still add a console command to wrap it up, or you could just script it yourself.
I'm pretty sure parasite is made redundant by an alien commander ability, so why have it? Also, goading is only possible by having a slight annoyance imposed. If they keep a distance attack for the skulk in, it should do something, but not do more than 10 hp of damage. 10 or more armor damage I wouldn't mind, as it would make less hits required to kill the 'rine, but it could also be repaired by their teammates. This could aid other aliens as well, and could be noted via model/gear differences on the rines or a particle or hud effect that appears for the aliens. (not seen through walls, ofc)
I was also thinking the range attack could confuse the marines controls slightly, making directions apply differently, (WASD jumbled) or weapon keys responding oddly ("primary" key selects knife, knife selects secondary, etc.). This is a huge divergence from parasite behavior, as it's not an external threat but an internal one, but it's just an idea.
I have a few unrelated ideas below:
Make a grenade key that throws the researched puppies. With a GL attached to your LMG/HMG, you could use the grenade key to fire the GL, while still having secondary fire work the close range magic.
If they stay selectable:
a)Nades could be detonated, so that two RTs could be damaged at the same time, or other such tactics.
b)You could set a custom fuse time (let the player make 6 custom timers before-hand to be selectable via pie menu) with alt-fire. A fuse time could be double-clicked to set it for both the current and next nade in sequence, and they would apply even after switching weapons, but could be changed at any time before being thrown.
c)Both functions: detonate with secondary after throwing, or let fuse (set before throw) run out.
Make pack drops retainable, so that one of either a med or cat (whichever is picked up) could be stored for later use with a button press. Players could set meds to automatic use when less than full hp or at a threshold (>=70hp). I'm not sure if cats are coming to NS2, so this may be slightly less applicable.