<!--QuoteBegin-Guardian1+Jan 18 2005, 02:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Guardian1 @ Jan 18 2005, 02:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-the hole+Jan 17 2005, 06:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the hole @ Jan 17 2005, 06:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok, let me put it this way.
Not a single person, in the cal invite community, uses a SINGLE leap bite script, and maybe 2 use blink swipe scripts. Whereas EVERY SINGLE OTHER PLAYER LEAP BITES NORMALLY, LIKE EVERY OTHER PUBBER, JUST BETTER BECAUSE WE CAN AIM, BUNNYHOP, AND LEAP CORRECTLY.
Guardian... where do you pub, I want to watch you play, fade, skulk, shoot, etc. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You can add me to your friend list as Guardian[NOCLAN] and find me when I play then. I play on a bunch of different servers, which has the map/mode/ping that appeals to me at the time.
Also, in order to play in the CAL, are you required to post you cfg files? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It would be kind of stupid to post config files considering one can alter the config after it is sent in.
<!--QuoteBegin-Guardian1+Jan 18 2005, 03:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Guardian1 @ Jan 18 2005, 03:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Alternately, I'd like to champion a Pure Server mode which prevents anyone with added scripts, sprites, models, skins, or sounds from playing. Vanilla NS so-to-speak.
That certainly makes MP_BS look tame. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So now we all use custom sprites, models, skins, and sounds.
Have you ever heard of mp_consistency? Yeah, it checks to see that every model and sprite (that aren't allowed to be changed) is not changed. ie, models, gas, res, weapon sprites, muzzleflashes. Crosshairs are the only used sprite change that is allowed.
<!--QuoteBegin-the hole+Jan 19 2005, 01:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (the hole @ Jan 19 2005, 01:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Guardian1+Jan 18 2005, 03:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Guardian1 @ Jan 18 2005, 03:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Alternately, I'd like to champion a Pure Server mode which prevents anyone with added scripts, sprites, models, skins, or sounds from playing. Vanilla NS so-to-speak.
That certainly makes MP_BS look tame. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So now we all use custom sprites, models, skins, and sounds.
Have you ever heard of mp_consistency? Yeah, it checks to see that every model and sprite (that aren't allowed to be changed) is not changed. ie, models, gas, res, weapon sprites, muzzleflashes. Crosshairs are the only used sprite change that is allowed. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, having an x-hair for primal scream is extra lame.
back before combat was released many of us warned and knew that combat mode would split the community in a very bad way. which is what it has now done. people are going to like playing combat or classic more. and they are not going to put effort in to becoming skillful at the other. noobs will choose combat more often than not and either play on combat only servers or only put effort into learning combat games.
if combat is supposed to attract players to a server then what that is suggesting is obvious: combat is more popular, if not preferred. if that is the case then i'd suggest segregating the two modes into two mods. and letting people at least play only the games they want to play. i'd much prefer having few people wanting to learn how to play and trying to improve than many simply just playing because they are waiting for the next combat round.
player quality has suffered greatly simply because the nubs are babied with the rambo and CSness of combat mode and never learn how to properly play the highly team oriented classic NS and the strategies, people skills, work, listening, obeying, etc. involved.
the worst thing about this whole situation is that devs will not take a side on it. they have not said if they want it to be CS-like or something completely different and highly team oriented like they used to claim NS was supposed to be. and since they have been reluctant to take a side, which side they have taken should be obvious. NS is changing, change with it or leave.
just because the majority of players (or community goers) want the game to be a certain way does not mean that listening to them will create a good game. SWG is a tragic example of this.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->player quality has suffered greatly simply because the nubs are babied with the rambo and CSness of combat mode and never learn how to properly play the highly team oriented classic NS and the strategies, people skills, work, listening, obeying, etc. involved.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
along comes smiling mr.nub who has just downloaded ns and is excited to play he joins a ns classic server and unknowingly does something wrong perhaps even gets into the cc! or gorges and makes the wrong chamber - omg! at this point he is insulted by his team m8s usually using offensive language poor mr.nub is no longer smiling,he is shoked and upset so he leaves the server then he spots a co server... on he goes,plays a while starts to learn and he hasnt even been sworn at yet! and then.... he finds that he now cant get into classic ns cause hes used to playing with 3 different movement upgrades instead of 1 and its kinda hard when you cant be speedy silent leet skulk with cara and regen and focus anymore too much combat is bad for your skillz <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
While 'too much combat' might be bad for classic NS skills, there's some excellent skills that are needed for both modes of play that you get to practice much more in CO. As a marine, jumpdodging skulks, effective placement of shotgun shots and flying with jetpacks are things that are useful to both CO and NS, yet can occur much more often in CO. As an alien, simply being able to practice with the higher lifeforms in CO can drastically improve your lifetime in classic NS.
Of course, not everyone has the mindset of using CO as a tool for improving combat skills for use in classic NS, but some of us do. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Actually, it's the insulting of the newbies by 'more experienced players' that usually makes me wonder about our community. I think we all need to stop and think about what we bring to the game, and how our actions might affect the rest of the community. Maybe we're just not shaping the incoming player base the way we should be, and maybe that's a bigger problem than the gameplay mechanics.
Meh for the very little bit I still play I just pick servers its fun to play at. I've completely given up on competetive games and therefore stopped looking for them. WOW really has taken up most of my time lately as I frankly became tired of waiting forever for patches. (Not saying that WOW doesnt have its own serious issues).
On the combat issue, I was one of the people defending it when it came out and I'm ashamed to say I was absolutely wrong. While I think it made the community a tad bit larger it really ruined the possibility of good ns games. So it split the community and pretty much all new players start in co which actually makes more problems for experienced players trying to teach them than if they hadn't played any form of the game.
The hacking accusations of course have always been annoying, and while I used to have communities with good people playing I could join, now I'm left to combat servers that fortunately have half decent admins. But when these servers go to ns it's amazing to see the same players who are pretty good in combat act like they have never seen an ns game (entire clans even).
Oh well just venting, I'll play more when b6 is released (although the uberfade with nerfed shottie looked pretty bad when I was watching a constie play the other day, granted these were good players that I knew, but it sounded pretty hopeless)
<!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Jan 12 2005, 03:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Jan 12 2005, 03:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Guardian1+Jan 12 2005, 02:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Guardian1 @ Jan 12 2005, 02:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Jan 12 2005, 12:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Jan 12 2005, 12:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Something that's always confused me about this....how would you know? Have you ever conducted this experiment? Before you lambast scripters as using scripts as a "crutch" (rather than a customization tool available to everyone), mayhaps you should try them, and then see if you actually get better when using them. The only script that's really useful is the +3jump script, but you can just use mwheel for that anyways. All others can be recreated perfectly fine by quick fingers. I know; I don't script because it gave me no advantages when I tried it (I had already gotten used to a quick-fingered style of gameplay) and I'd rather trust my fingers than the computer <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I did play with scripting for a week or so and it felt like I was cheating. The leap-bite script especially felt cheap.
It takes the skill out of the game. While people say that it's a mundane thing to do a successful leap-bite without scripting, it's not for me. If it was so mundane, then why is it so rampant?
I'll agree that there's nothing you can't do in a script that you can't do with fast fingers, it does take the pressure off needing those fast fingers to do something else. Scripting reduces the amount of skill required to do other tasks.
I don't think that's debatable, otherwise, people wouldn't script. It makes the game easier. I don't think that scripting is cheating, but I prefer not to script and feel that people who do script use it as a crutch for their lack of skill. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Its funny, sometimes I wonder why and I get asked why I haven't stopped playing World of Warcraft and come back to NS, with the new CAL season gearing up. Then I remember, it's because of ignorance like this. It's even funnier that things haven't changed in the longest time, especially with half the community having 'selective reading', reading things only they want to read and ignoring everything else.
To address the post directly, leapbite scripts, blinkswipe scripts. Just wow, the ignorance continues. I can tell you back when I was active in the competitive community, I haven't met one good player who used a blinkswipe/leapbite script ever. Those things hamper your skill, you if had any to begin with. It drains energy unnecessarily, horribly timed meaning you have to be at a certain distance with the enemy to use it successfully, easily killed by shotgunners. Many people already have said they use hud_fastswitch which is 100% times better than either of those two scripts yet we have dumb newbs like this who think people tear up pubs with leapbite or blinkswipe. I even remember a couple of days mp_bs was implemented, I went to voogru's server. No scripts, raw config. I didn't do any worse without scripts as a fade, in fact 75% of the server left for some odd reason, the remaining kept bugging me how I got my blinkswipe script through the filter. That made me laugh, that also gave me disappointment at how bad the community had become. It's so bad that it is laughable and as The Hole said, nothing is being done about it. In fact, it seems like such a horrible public community is being praised for it's continual ignorance.
Until people actually choose to educate themselves about real facts, instead of going on rumors, on what they think is right, etc, nothing will change. No patches will change anything when the core of the community is rotten. It's a pity, NS was a great and amazing game, then something like this has to happen, almost a travesty. People in CS think they have it bad in pubs when good players constantly get accused of hacking, take a look at NS. Instead of the accusors being mocked for being newbs, they are being praised. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The best is when that dude Vladiator accused JackKnife of "Jetpack scripts" back when iRiot was around.
Its amazing how many people take pride in stuff they do NOT know about.
And another thread disintegrating over the scripting debate. Folks, give it up. You won't convince the others of your opinion. Search yourselves a nice Blockscripts_1/0 server depending on your preferences, and play. Or don't. It's your decision. But stop calling each other 'cheater' or 'ignorant'.
Comments
Not a single person, in the cal invite community, uses a SINGLE leap bite script, and maybe 2 use blink swipe scripts. Whereas EVERY SINGLE OTHER PLAYER LEAP BITES NORMALLY, LIKE EVERY OTHER PUBBER, JUST BETTER BECAUSE WE CAN AIM, BUNNYHOP, AND LEAP CORRECTLY.
Guardian... where do you pub, I want to watch you play, fade, skulk, shoot, etc. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can add me to your friend list as Guardian[NOCLAN] and find me when I play then. I play on a bunch of different servers, which has the map/mode/ping that appeals to me at the time.
Also, in order to play in the CAL, are you required to post you cfg files? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would be kind of stupid to post config files considering one can alter the config after it is sent in.
Cometo the NSArmslab Classic server... we get better and better and better
Im so not lying...
Literally we invent a new strategy every week.... freaks out ppl some of the stuff we do.... but it works and we win
~Jason
That certainly makes MP_BS look tame. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So now we all use custom sprites, models, skins, and sounds.
Have you ever heard of mp_consistency? Yeah, it checks to see that every model and sprite (that aren't allowed to be changed) is not changed. ie, models, gas, res, weapon sprites, muzzleflashes. Crosshairs are the only used sprite change that is allowed.
That certainly makes MP_BS look tame. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So now we all use custom sprites, models, skins, and sounds.
Have you ever heard of mp_consistency? Yeah, it checks to see that every model and sprite (that aren't allowed to be changed) is not changed. ie, models, gas, res, weapon sprites, muzzleflashes. Crosshairs are the only used sprite change that is allowed. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, having an x-hair for primal scream is extra lame.
if combat is supposed to attract players to a server then what that is suggesting is obvious: combat is more popular, if not preferred. if that is the case then i'd suggest segregating the two modes into two mods. and letting people at least play only the games they want to play. i'd much prefer having few people wanting to learn how to play and trying to improve than many simply just playing because they are waiting for the next combat round.
player quality has suffered greatly simply because the nubs are babied with the rambo and CSness of combat mode and never learn how to properly play the highly team oriented classic NS and the strategies, people skills, work, listening, obeying, etc. involved.
the worst thing about this whole situation is that devs will not take a side on it. they have not said if they want it to be CS-like or something completely different and highly team oriented like they used to claim NS was supposed to be. and since they have been reluctant to take a side, which side they have taken should be obvious. NS is changing, change with it or leave.
just because the majority of players (or community goers) want the game to be a certain way does not mean that listening to them will create a good game. SWG is a tragic example of this.
along comes smiling mr.nub who has just downloaded ns and is excited to play
he joins a ns classic server and unknowingly does something wrong
perhaps even gets into the cc! or gorges and makes the wrong chamber - omg!
at this point he is insulted by his team m8s usually using offensive language
poor mr.nub is no longer smiling,he is shoked and upset so he leaves the server
then he spots a co server...
on he goes,plays a while starts to learn and he hasnt even been sworn at yet!
and then....
he finds that he now cant get into classic ns cause hes used to playing with 3 different movement upgrades instead of 1 and its kinda hard when you cant be speedy silent leet skulk with cara and regen and focus anymore
too much combat is bad for your skillz <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Of course, not everyone has the mindset of using CO as a tool for improving combat skills for use in classic NS, but some of us do. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Actually, it's the insulting of the newbies by 'more experienced players' that usually makes me wonder about our community. I think we all need to stop and think about what we bring to the game, and how our actions might affect the rest of the community. Maybe we're just not shaping the incoming player base the way we should be, and maybe that's a bigger problem than the gameplay mechanics.
On the combat issue, I was one of the people defending it when it came out and I'm ashamed to say I was absolutely wrong. While I think it made the community a tad bit larger it really ruined the possibility of good ns games. So it split the community and pretty much all new players start in co which actually makes more problems for experienced players trying to teach them than if they hadn't played any form of the game.
The hacking accusations of course have always been annoying, and while I used to have communities with good people playing I could join, now I'm left to combat servers that fortunately have half decent admins. But when these servers go to ns it's amazing to see the same players who are pretty good in combat act like they have never seen an ns game (entire clans even).
Oh well just venting, I'll play more when b6 is released (although the uberfade with nerfed shottie looked pretty bad when I was watching a constie play the other day, granted these were good players that I knew, but it sounded pretty hopeless)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I did play with scripting for a week or so and it felt like I was cheating. The leap-bite script especially felt cheap.
It takes the skill out of the game. While people say that it's a mundane thing to do a successful leap-bite without scripting, it's not for me. If it was so mundane, then why is it so rampant?
I'll agree that there's nothing you can't do in a script that you can't do with fast fingers, it does take the pressure off needing those fast fingers to do something else. Scripting reduces the amount of skill required to do other tasks.
I don't think that's debatable, otherwise, people wouldn't script. It makes the game easier. I don't think that scripting is cheating, but I prefer not to script and feel that people who do script use it as a crutch for their lack of skill. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its funny, sometimes I wonder why and I get asked why I haven't stopped playing World of Warcraft and come back to NS, with the new CAL season gearing up. Then I remember, it's because of ignorance like this. It's even funnier that things haven't changed in the longest time, especially with half the community having 'selective reading', reading things only they want to read and ignoring everything else.
To address the post directly, leapbite scripts, blinkswipe scripts. Just wow, the ignorance continues. I can tell you back when I was active in the competitive community, I haven't met one good player who used a blinkswipe/leapbite script ever. Those things hamper your skill, you if had any to begin with. It drains energy unnecessarily, horribly timed meaning you have to be at a certain distance with the enemy to use it successfully, easily killed by shotgunners. Many people already have said they use hud_fastswitch which is 100% times better than either of those two scripts yet we have dumb newbs like this who think people tear up pubs with leapbite or blinkswipe. I even remember a couple of days mp_bs was implemented, I went to voogru's server. No scripts, raw config. I didn't do any worse without scripts as a fade, in fact 75% of the server left for some odd reason, the remaining kept bugging me how I got my blinkswipe script through the filter. That made me laugh, that also gave me disappointment at how bad the community had become. It's so bad that it is laughable and as The Hole said, nothing is being done about it. In fact, it seems like such a horrible public community is being praised for it's continual ignorance.
Until people actually choose to educate themselves about real facts, instead of going on rumors, on what they think is right, etc, nothing will change. No patches will change anything when the core of the community is rotten. It's a pity, NS was a great and amazing game, then something like this has to happen, almost a travesty. People in CS think they have it bad in pubs when good players constantly get accused of hacking, take a look at NS. Instead of the accusors being mocked for being newbs, they are being praised. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The best is when that dude Vladiator accused JackKnife of "Jetpack scripts" back when iRiot was around.
Its amazing how many people take pride in stuff they do NOT know about.
Ah well.
<span style='color:red'>***Locked.***</span>