<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you think that script gives you an advantage and prevents you from having to worry as much?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Not at all. Those behaviors become automatic when you really learn to bunnyhop.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Technically, it's still a third party addition.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Tell me what I can type in my console to give me an aimbot. <i>That</i> is a third party addition.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That all used to have to be done with scripting, so you can see that scripting in itself is not bad. It's how it's used that determines whether it's bad or not.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Exactly - <i>scripting is not bad</i>! In Natural Selection, the ways that scripting can be used harmfully have been removed. For example, _special is gone in B6. The pistol has a capped rate of fire. Etc, etc, etc.
<!--QuoteBegin-DragonMech+Jan 14 2005, 03:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DragonMech @ Jan 14 2005, 03:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have no problem with people bunnyhopping or "3 jumping" without a script. It shows that you have some decent keyboarding skills. I'm not a good bunnyhopper because it throws my aim off, and I don't use it. When you use a script to do it, you're just showing that you can't or WON'T do it with the keyboard. Either unskilled or lazy. Take your pick.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->And that's just your opinion. I'd be willing to bet you don't bunnyhop 'because it throws off your aim' - I wouldn't be surprised at all if you don't bhop because you <i>can't do it well enough to gain anything</i>. Bunyhoping in a 'real' situation - with framerate loss, ping and lag is humanly impossible to do consistently. You may be able to get some speed, but you won't to it as consistently as is possible with a script.
Does this mean the script bunnyhops for you? No. It doesn't make the impossible into the possible. If you can't bunnyhop because you don't know how, a script won't let you bhop. If you do know and have practiced the movement skills required, you can bunnyhop scriptless. All the scripting does is make it more of a learnable skill than a 'guess the right instant to press jump because lag makes it impossible to know exactly when you need to jump' minigame of NS.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85961' target='_blank'>Here is a tip for you: get some scripts and learn what they do.</a> It's always a god idea to know exactly what you're talking about when debating. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think the scripting discussion is over in this thread. DragonMech wins.
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have no problem with people bunnyhopping or "3 jumping" without a script. It shows that you have some decent keyboarding skills. I'm not a good bunnyhopper because it throws my aim off, and I don't use it. When you use a script to do it, you're just showing that you can't or WON'T do it with the keyboard. Either unskilled or lazy. Take your pick.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What is your view, then, on using the mousewheel to jump? It is only a bind, but it is no less effective, assuming you have a good mousewheel, than using a script.
In NS, with _special being removed, no scripts automate anything. There's nothing remotely close to a buy set gear scripts that Counter-Strike has that is useful.
In fact, NS already has a script built into its interface. hud_fastswitch 1 is the perfect example and you have the option of turning it on in options.
The scripts that most people who use scripts use are just like hud_fastswitch. It executes an extra command, it doesn't automate anything.
<!--QuoteBegin-Guardian1+Jan 14 2005, 03:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Guardian1 @ Jan 14 2005, 03:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-DragonMech+Jan 14 2005, 01:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DragonMech @ Jan 14 2005, 01:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have no problem with people bunnyhopping or "3 jumping" without a script. It shows that you have some decent keyboarding skills. I'm not a good bunnyhopper because it throws my aim off, and I don't use it. When you use a script to do it, you're just showing that you can't or WON'T do it with the keyboard. Either unskilled or lazy. Take your pick.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->And that's just your opinion. I'd be willing to bet you don't bunnyhop 'because it throws off your aim' - I wouldn't be surprised at all if you don't bhop because you <i>can't do it well enough to gain anything</i>. Bunyhoping in a 'real' situation - with framerate loss, ping and lag is humanly impossible to do consistently. You may be able to get some speed, but you won't to it as consistently as is possible with a script.
Does this mean the script bunnyhops for you? No. It doesn't make the impossible into the possible. If you can't bunnyhop because you don't know how, a script won't let you bhop. If you do know and have practiced the movement skills required, you can bunnyhop scriptless. All the scripting does is make it more of a learnable skill than a 'guess the right instant to press jump because lag makes it impossible to know exactly when you need to jump.'
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85961' target='_blank'>Here is a tip for you: get some scripts and learn what they do.</a> It's always a god idea to know exactly what you're talking about when debating. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> A coworker and I were just talking about this.
We commonly copy files from one location to another. In some cases, it's the same files from the same locations to the same locations. So we write a batch file to copy those over when we need it. It reduces the time it takes and allows us to go do something else right away.
Bunnyhopping in itself is not a difficult task. It requires timing and some keyboard and mousing skills. Now, lets add someone firing at you, and then you firing at them, and then navigating the environment. Do you think that script gives you an advantage and prevents you from having to worry as much?
We all know that scripting only uses the commands and events from within the game, but it's how it automates those commands and events which gives the advantage. Technically, it's still a third party addition.
Remember how in Counterstrike you used to have to use the single BUY menu to get to everything? Now, they have separate Buy menus within the game for purchasing ammo for different types of weapons. In CS:S you can even repurchase entire weapon/equipment loadouts or purchase an optimal loadout. That all used to have to be done with scripting, so you can see that scripting in itself is not bad. It's how it's used that determines whether it's bad or not. (I can tell you after being caught with my pants down buying ammo in CS1.2, I learned how to navigate the buy menu REALLY quickly). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Never in ANY point in history did I hear people complaining about using buy scripts to bypass that horrible menu, did you?
The fact that you guys **** about something that can legally be done by the standards of vALVE, Half-Life, and Natural-Selection, just shows how unedjucated on the subject you all really are. I'm going to do what I can to get ahold of zunni or nemesis right now to get this damn forum up and running.
Oh, and maybe when you get caught with your pants down by someone who is perfectly executing a bunnyhop using a script, you'd learn to do the same?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> without feeling obligated to ask their pub admin, because he's opinions are harsh, unknowledgable, and usually biased. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
New ribs.. new ribs PLEASE... ogm biased opinions, and I bet yours wont be... hahah, arg, the pain, new ribs!!
<!--QuoteBegin-Guardian1+Jan 14 2005, 09:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Guardian1 @ Jan 14 2005, 09:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-themakefunofpplacct+Jan 13 2005, 05:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (themakefunofpplacct @ Jan 13 2005, 05:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Except one is legal and one is illegal... how is it exactly the same? And your matter-of-fact tone is funny, because basically you're telling us all to shut up because you are 100% right so it's pointless to argue about this anymore. There is obviously a line that cannot be crossed, and no scripts actually cross that line. No script even comes close to crossing that game-breaking line, because a script is just a bunch of console commands strung together. Hacks and exploits on the other hand completely break the game, they are not comparable. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Lets define our terms.
It's not illegal (against the law) to use hacks. You cannot get arrested. It IS however immoral and unsportsmanlike.
When you say there is an obvious line that cannot be crossed, please explain to me how people can cross that line every day. Obviously, SOME PEOPLE cannot discern that line and feel that it's ok to hack/cheat/exploit.
Again, my argument says that it's a matter of how people look at it. If someone does not have the ability (technical or otherwise) to use scripting, wouldn't that look like cheating to them? I'd have to say yes. Whether it's cheating or not is irrelevant, because it's subjective to the individual.
You have values that say that scripting is ok. Others have values that say it's cheap and "illegal". You can't argue with someone elses opinion. You can only state your own opinion and see what happens. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> As I said before in a previous post, you literally can not tell the difference of whether a good player is scripting or not. Everything that that player does can be accomplished just as well without scripts, while with hacks you are able to do things that is not intended in the game. That is the line that cannot be crossed.. scripts do not break the game because everything scripts do can be done manually(and it doesn't even make it that much easier... I know because I've tried scripts before and I've found that most of the ones ppl think help a lot such as the leap/bite and blink/swipe ones are completely useless). Hacks, on the other hand, DO cross the line because it alters the game mechanics. Its all common sense.
Edit: and you talk about people who cannot discern between that gamebreaking line.. Well quite frankly, I don't think anybody's that stupid. I highly doubt there are hackers that think what they're doing is fair. Most hackers just want to grief. Besides, it's not about what the hacker thinks, its about how he affects the game. He is obviously completely breaking the game mechanics, dominating every player in the game.
Now you're probably going to say that scripting does the same thing, so I'm going to get this out of the way. no, scripts do not do the same thing. Give scripts to a good player. Does he become godlike? No, his skills stay more or less the same.
BUT how else can he be so good!??! How can that random player in the pub kill 4 marines and leap away without tlosing even half his life? See, i believe that is mainly what the pubbers ask themselves after they get pretty much sodomized by players such as those. But the thing is, it is very possible to do that well without any scripts. You have to understand, and I don't nkow if i could emphasize this enough, that scripts do not allow you to do anymore than the game allows you. It's really what the player chooses to adapt to. I will guarantee you that a player who has adapted to using mousewheel to jump will bhop just as well as a player who uses +3jumps.
<b>So to sum it up, most scripts that ppl think actually help do NOT. Blink/swipe? Leap/bite? wiggle walk(run faster) script? THEY DO JACK ****. They can be done BETTER manually, but like I said its all about adapting and playing however you want. Now the scripts that DO make a difference is the 3jumps script and the pistol script. However, they too can be replicated and just as well with the mousewheel.</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-a civilian+Jan 14 2005, 01:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (a civilian @ Jan 14 2005, 01:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have no problem with people bunnyhopping or "3 jumping" without a script. It shows that you have some decent keyboarding skills. I'm not a good bunnyhopper because it throws my aim off, and I don't use it. When you use a script to do it, you're just showing that you can't or WON'T do it with the keyboard. Either unskilled or lazy. Take your pick.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What is your view, then, on using the mousewheel to jump? It is only a bind, but it is no less effective, assuming you have a good mousewheel, than using a script. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Using the menu to bind a key or button to jump is fine in my opinion.
<!--QuoteBegin-skifly+Jan 14 2005, 01:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (skifly @ Jan 14 2005, 01:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think the scripting discussion is over in this thread. DragonMech wins. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think it's about winning. It's about stating your opinions and seeing if the other folks agree, disagree, or don't care.
DragonMech is definitely stating his opinions, but there's no winning to be had here.
Before I continue I’d like to say something: Whilst a majority of people may come to accept scripting as valid, you cannot expect every single person in the entire NS community to understand or even care. Whilst I think we should try and educate the masses I also think we should accept that fact now. Shouting and screaming doesn't help anyone.
From reading this thread there seems to be several main issues with scripting which has lead to the misconception of scripts allowing players to dominate and I'm going to try and address them one by one.
<b>Scripts offer an unfair advantage/Scripts let a player dominate and won then game:</b>
Lets clear this up straight away, the advantage a script offers will vary from user to user. I myself find advantage in using a 3jump script, the advantage of feeling comfortable with my config. I can bunnyhop without it but it’s not something I feel comfortable with. Allowing me to bunnyhop at top speeds without suffering from repetitive strain injury through using a mouse wheel is a big advantage to me.
Another individual may not benefit from a 3jump at all. A lot of players have become familiar and comfortable with mouse wheel bunnyhopping and use it primarily. A 3jump script will not have any effect on them at all.
The only advantage scripts offer is in customization. If I stick with the bunnyhopping example, you can bunnyhop with mouse wheel or with a 3jump. Neither is any more legit than the other and both do exactly the same things. As prodigy said, scripts do not allow you to do the impossible. Everything done with a script is doable by hand and use of a script to do certain actions does not mean a player is any less skillful or lazy than another.
<b>Scripts = Hacks:</b>
The argument that scripts are a third party program like a hack is just plain wrong. Scripts are built in to the Half-Life engine, Natural Selection and now even source. Now sure you cannot bind a script in your menu but that doesn’t mean it’s illegal, using a userconfig is not comparable to using a hack.
If you open your NS folder you’ll notice a file called Config.cfg. If you open this file you’ll see all sorts of things, these are your binds. What you bind in your menu is saved in a text file to prevent you constantly having to rebind keys. This file is not directly part of the game so by your reasoning is illegal.
Use of the console isn’t illegal either. How do you change your network rates without your console? How do you control your FPS and carry out any number of perfectly legal and in some cases required tasks without use of your console? Are you suggesting that these too are illegal?
<b>The flip side:</b>
There is a perfectly legal console command that is probably what you’re mistaking for a script. Hud_fastswitch 1 allows you to change weapons by just simply clicking the relevant slot. You no longer have to select the slot and then confirm it. This allows players to change weapons quickly and perform tasks like blink swiping so easily. If you’re not aware of this command then you can be forgiven for mistaking its purpose as being the work of a script. However now you know the truth.
When you see people using supposed leap bite and blink swipe all they’re doing is making use of this console command. Why it’s not set to 1 by default is totally beyond me. Leap bite scripts are totally redundant and actually hinder your play. They take away an element of control that is essential for NS and will actually get you killed. Those of you who used them and claim to have “dominated” should really find a new server.
Don’t mistake use of a legal bind (lastinv) and hud_fastswitch 1 as scripting. Both are perfectly legal and acceptable. If you see people switching weapons a lot, assume first that it is this, not a script.
<b>Conclusion</b>
Firstly, I write long posts with poor grammar. Secondly, any ‘advantage’ scripts add is merely down to allowing the player to feel comfortable with his Config. Think of it like this: you’d probably rather run in your own shoes than the gym teachers old size 12s.
Yadda yadda all these long posts and arguements are silly. The misconception that scripts allow you to gain a large boost in abilities is wrong. There ya go. They help you a bit its true. But it is a little bit. Now shush all of you.
For all you people who think I am wrong either you or I are ignorant. I am perfectly willing to discuss it with you on irc if you feel you can defend your position. If however you cannot or can just give second hand stories and pubber beliefs then stop posting here plz.
MrBen's posts are usually written in a boring way. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
<!--QuoteBegin-Guardian1+Jan 14 2005, 08:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Guardian1 @ Jan 14 2005, 08:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-a civilian+Jan 14 2005, 01:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (a civilian @ Jan 14 2005, 01:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have no problem with people bunnyhopping or "3 jumping" without a script. It shows that you have some decent keyboarding skills. I'm not a good bunnyhopper because it throws my aim off, and I don't use it. When you use a script to do it, you're just showing that you can't or WON'T do it with the keyboard. Either unskilled or lazy. Take your pick.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What is your view, then, on using the mousewheel to jump? It is only a bind, but it is no less effective, assuming you have a good mousewheel, than using a script. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Using the menu to bind a key or button to jump is fine in my opinion.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> But using the mousewheel to jump is no less 'lazy' than using a script. I know, as I use either depending on whether mp_blockscripts is enabled. It makes no sense to consider a jump script unfair while claiming the mousewheel is not. Both accomplish the same effect.
I am for the ability to use scripts. I have used the 3jump script for a long time, but had to stop doing it when GamingOrb league started, and I can tell you I have had no problems at all switching to mwheel for bunnyhopping instead, and the only reason why I still complain about mp_blockscripts being on is because I feel it's pointless and petty to stop people from using scripts when they give no advantage what so ever (exception being _special scripts which are gone in b6).
I found Ben's post informative. I knew the information already, but it was well set out and clearly explained, more than can be said for easily half the posts on this forum. If you didn't like the post's style, keep it to yourself and keep it civil.
<!--QuoteBegin-Guardian1+Jan 12 2005, 02:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Guardian1 @ Jan 12 2005, 02:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Jan 12 2005, 12:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Jan 12 2005, 12:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Something that's always confused me about this....how would you know? Have you ever conducted this experiment? Before you lambast scripters as using scripts as a "crutch" (rather than a customization tool available to everyone), mayhaps you should try them, and then see if you actually get better when using them. The only script that's really useful is the +3jump script, but you can just use mwheel for that anyways. All others can be recreated perfectly fine by quick fingers. I know; I don't script because it gave me no advantages when I tried it (I had already gotten used to a quick-fingered style of gameplay) and I'd rather trust my fingers than the computer <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I did play with scripting for a week or so and it felt like I was cheating. The leap-bite script especially felt cheap.
It takes the skill out of the game. While people say that it's a mundane thing to do a successful leap-bite without scripting, it's not for me. If it was so mundane, then why is it so rampant? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So because you're to amazingly stupid to bind slot3 and slot1 to handy keys with hud_fastswitch 1, anyone leapbiting well is using a script? Oooookay.
I will never completely comprehend the inability to leap/bite and blink/swipe - I was able to do it before I could bunnyhop, before I knew what aircontrol was, why electrification sucked, what a walkerfade is, how to pancake or +duck fade. It was like within the first 90 minutes of playing NS, I hopped on a co_ server, got the points to go fade and figured out how to blinkswipe on co_kestrel (leapbiting took longer, because of having to hold crouch beforehand).
There has to be some amazing amount of willful ignorance or intimidation going around that people refuse to learn something that would confer them a serious advantage in no time. Its not even remotely abstract :/
Well I would have called myself a pretty good NS player back when but I stopped playing NS a long time ago along with a lot of people I knew, we just got bored with the game or didn't like the changes of new versions <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The console is now a separate VGUI window. We still support "aliasing". One of the cooler features we've added is the ability to do full command completion.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats from VERC, not only do valve support alias' (scripting) they also made it even easier to do for HL2.
No because poor players, and scrubs will always need excuses for why they lose.
About cheapness I recommend reading this: <a href='http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart1.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart1.htm</a>
Those who want to argue those points is free to, but remember this. Putting people in the spawn queue is more fun than waiting there.
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Jan 17 2005, 03:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Jan 17 2005, 03:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No because poor players, and scrubs will always need excuses for why they lose.
About cheapness I recommend reading this: <a href='http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart1.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart1.htm</a>
Those who want to argue those points is free to, but remember this. Putting people in the spawn queue is more fun than waiting there.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"Play to Win" isn't the holy grail. It's a good starting mindset. You should read the 3rd part of the article <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The 3rd part is indeed a good article, but so is the 1st.
Still, I have to agree with Firewater, I mean... it's a fps game and either you put people in the spawn cue or you wait there yourself. Which is more fun? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-SaltzBad+Jan 16 2005, 10:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SaltzBad @ Jan 16 2005, 10:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So because you're to amazingly stupid to bind slot3 and slot1 to handy keys with hud_fastswitch 1, anyone leapbiting well is using a script? Oooookay.
I will never completely comprehend the inability to leap/bite and blink/swipe - I was able to do it before I could bunnyhop, before I knew what aircontrol was, why electrification sucked, what a walkerfade is, how to pancake or +duck fade. It was like within the first 90 minutes of playing NS, I hopped on a co_ server, got the points to go fade and figured out how to blinkswipe on co_kestrel (leapbiting took longer, because of having to hold crouch beforehand).
There has to be some amazing amount of willful ignorance or intimidation going around that people refuse to learn something that would confer them a serious advantage in no time. Its not even remotely abstract :/ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And there you go insulting me without knowing anything about me.
For your information, that's exactly how I leapbite and fadeswipe. I do it well enough to use it, but after using a script to do it, I felt like I was cheating, it was so much easier.
When reading people's posts, it's like they're trying to submit a resume on how good they are at NS:
"It was like within the first 90 minutes of playing NS, I hopped on a co_ server, got the points to go fade and figured out how to blinkswipe on co_kestrel (leapbiting took longer, because of having to hold crouch beforehand)."
There's nothing that raises people's ire more than hearing how easy it is and how stupid others are because they can't do it as well. I'm almost kicking myself for taking your trollbait, but had to point out that most people don't play competitively and some of us even play the game for fun.
It's like the skier who has to race down the hill and then laughs when you take your time to enjoy the ride.
Guardian1, I have to admit that I dont think you have tried a blink/swipe script, nor actually blink/swiped by yourself. It is impossible to say that a script is better than doing it manually (edit: if you have tried both, and are reasonably good at doing it manually).
Unless of course you have separate keys bound to attacking with blink and attacking with swipe, but in that case it isnt really a blink/swipe script per definition.
<!--QuoteBegin-tjosan+Jan 17 2005, 11:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tjosan @ Jan 17 2005, 11:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Guardian1, I have to admit that I dont think you have tried a blink/swipe script, nor actually blink/swiped by yourself. It is impossible to say that a script is better than doing it manually (edit: if you have tried both, and are reasonably good at doing it manually).
Unless of course you have separate keys bound to attacking with blink and attacking with swipe, but in that case it isnt really a blink/swipe script per definition. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not only that, but I found it SO MUCH better using the script that I felt guilty about it.
As long as you blink into the person, which means aiming directly at them, you will be stopped when the models collide and the swipe will ALWAYS hit. Then you blink out and repeat after getting your energy back. I've used Hud_fastswitch since it was available in HL Deathmatch. It's MUCH more useful in NS because of the lack of multiple weapons for a slot. (unless you count welder/knife)
For an hour, I was an unholy terror with this script as a skulk. (I almost always play a superskulk rather than fade or Onos) When I tried it as a fade, I was just as successful, but was able to loiter and do damage for a longer time.
You might want to re-work your definition of impossible as it's probably based on fairly strict expectations.
<!--QuoteBegin-Guardian1+Jan 17 2005, 01:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Guardian1 @ Jan 17 2005, 01:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As long as you blink into the person, which means aiming directly at them, you will be stopped when the models collide and the swipe will ALWAYS hit. Then you blink out and repeat after getting your energy back. I've used Hud_fastswitch since it was available in HL Deathmatch. It's MUCH more useful in NS because of the lack of multiple weapons for a slot. (unless you count welder/knife)
For an hour, I was an unholy terror with this script as a skulk. (I almost always play a superskulk rather than fade or Onos) When I tried it as a fade, I was just as successful, but was able to loiter and do damage for a longer time.
You might want to re-work your definition of impossible as it's probably based on fairly strict expectations. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> OK, here's a secret about leap-skulking:
on that note, i do feel the 'aliens' shouldnt have to 'switch weapons' to use what is considered appendages. is there some way to code it so that by default a button press instantly does an attack? *i.e. button X = bite, button Y = parasite, button Z = leap, ect*.
so far, the only way i know to do that is with scripts, and with BS, well, its less like playing a wild biological creature and more like playing a marine with melee weapons and faster movements..... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Technically, it's still a third party addition.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Tell me what I can type in my console to give me an aimbot. <i>That</i> is a third party addition.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That all used to have to be done with scripting, so you can see that scripting in itself is not bad. It's how it's used that determines whether it's bad or not.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Exactly - <i>scripting is not bad</i>! In Natural Selection, the ways that scripting can be used harmfully have been removed. For example, _special is gone in B6. The pistol has a capped rate of fire. Etc, etc, etc.
I have no problem with people bunnyhopping or "3 jumping" without a script. It shows that you have some decent keyboarding skills. I'm not a good bunnyhopper because it throws my aim off, and I don't use it. When you use a script to do it, you're just showing that you can't or WON'T do it with the keyboard. Either unskilled or lazy. Take your pick.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->And that's just your opinion. I'd be willing to bet you don't bunnyhop 'because it throws off your aim' - I wouldn't be surprised at all if you don't bhop because you <i>can't do it well enough to gain anything</i>. Bunyhoping in a 'real' situation - with framerate loss, ping and lag is humanly impossible to do consistently. You may be able to get some speed, but you won't to it as consistently as is possible with a script.
Does this mean the script bunnyhops for you? No. It doesn't make the impossible into the possible. If you can't bunnyhop because you don't know how, a script won't let you bhop. If you do know and have practiced the movement skills required, you can bunnyhop scriptless. All the scripting does is make it more of a learnable skill than a 'guess the right instant to press jump because lag makes it impossible to know exactly when you need to jump' minigame of NS.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85961' target='_blank'>Here is a tip for you: get some scripts and learn what they do.</a> It's always a god idea to know exactly what you're talking about when debating. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the scripting discussion is over in this thread. DragonMech wins.
What is your view, then, on using the mousewheel to jump? It is only a bind, but it is no less effective, assuming you have a good mousewheel, than using a script.
In fact, NS already has a script built into its interface. hud_fastswitch 1 is the perfect example and you have the option of turning it on in options.
The scripts that most people who use scripts use are just like hud_fastswitch. It executes an extra command, it doesn't automate anything.
I have no problem with people bunnyhopping or "3 jumping" without a script. It shows that you have some decent keyboarding skills. I'm not a good bunnyhopper because it throws my aim off, and I don't use it. When you use a script to do it, you're just showing that you can't or WON'T do it with the keyboard. Either unskilled or lazy. Take your pick.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->And that's just your opinion. I'd be willing to bet you don't bunnyhop 'because it throws off your aim' - I wouldn't be surprised at all if you don't bhop because you <i>can't do it well enough to gain anything</i>. Bunyhoping in a 'real' situation - with framerate loss, ping and lag is humanly impossible to do consistently. You may be able to get some speed, but you won't to it as consistently as is possible with a script.
Does this mean the script bunnyhops for you? No. It doesn't make the impossible into the possible. If you can't bunnyhop because you don't know how, a script won't let you bhop. If you do know and have practiced the movement skills required, you can bunnyhop scriptless. All the scripting does is make it more of a learnable skill than a 'guess the right instant to press jump because lag makes it impossible to know exactly when you need to jump.'
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85961' target='_blank'>Here is a tip for you: get some scripts and learn what they do.</a> It's always a god idea to know exactly what you're talking about when debating. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A coworker and I were just talking about this.
We commonly copy files from one location to another. In some cases, it's the same files from the same locations to the same locations. So we write a batch file to copy those over when we need it. It reduces the time it takes and allows us to go do something else right away.
Bunnyhopping in itself is not a difficult task. It requires timing and some keyboard and mousing skills. Now, lets add someone firing at you, and then you firing at them, and then navigating the environment. Do you think that script gives you an advantage and prevents you from having to worry as much?
We all know that scripting only uses the commands and events from within the game, but it's how it automates those commands and events which gives the advantage. Technically, it's still a third party addition.
Remember how in Counterstrike you used to have to use the single BUY menu to get to everything? Now, they have separate Buy menus within the game for purchasing ammo for different types of weapons. In CS:S you can even repurchase entire weapon/equipment loadouts or purchase an optimal loadout. That all used to have to be done with scripting, so you can see that scripting in itself is not bad. It's how it's used that determines whether it's bad or not. (I can tell you after being caught with my pants down buying ammo in CS1.2, I learned how to navigate the buy menu REALLY quickly). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Never in ANY point in history did I hear people complaining about using buy scripts to bypass that horrible menu, did you?
The fact that you guys **** about something that can legally be done by the standards of vALVE, Half-Life, and Natural-Selection, just shows how unedjucated on the subject you all really are. I'm going to do what I can to get ahold of zunni or nemesis right now to get this damn forum up and running.
Oh, and maybe when you get caught with your pants down by someone who is perfectly executing a bunnyhop using a script, you'd learn to do the same?
without feeling obligated to ask their pub admin, because he's opinions are harsh, unknowledgable, and usually biased.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
New ribs.. new ribs PLEASE... ogm biased opinions, and I bet yours wont be... hahah, arg, the pain, new ribs!!
Lets define our terms.
It's not illegal (against the law) to use hacks. You cannot get arrested. It IS however immoral and unsportsmanlike.
When you say there is an obvious line that cannot be crossed, please explain to me how people can cross that line every day. Obviously, SOME PEOPLE cannot discern that line and feel that it's ok to hack/cheat/exploit.
Again, my argument says that it's a matter of how people look at it. If someone does not have the ability (technical or otherwise) to use scripting, wouldn't that look like cheating to them? I'd have to say yes. Whether it's cheating or not is irrelevant, because it's subjective to the individual.
You have values that say that scripting is ok. Others have values that say it's cheap and "illegal". You can't argue with someone elses opinion. You can only state your own opinion and see what happens. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As I said before in a previous post, you literally can not tell the difference of whether a good player is scripting or not. Everything that that player does can be accomplished just as well without scripts, while with hacks you are able to do things that is not intended in the game. That is the line that cannot be crossed.. scripts do not break the game because everything scripts do can be done manually(and it doesn't even make it that much easier... I know because I've tried scripts before and I've found that most of the ones ppl think help a lot such as the leap/bite and blink/swipe ones are completely useless). Hacks, on the other hand, DO cross the line because it alters the game mechanics. Its all common sense.
Edit: and you talk about people who cannot discern between that gamebreaking line..
Well quite frankly, I don't think anybody's that stupid. I highly doubt there are hackers that think what they're doing is fair. Most hackers just want to grief. Besides, it's not about what the hacker thinks, its about how he affects the game. He is obviously completely breaking the game mechanics, dominating every player in the game.
Now you're probably going to say that scripting does the same thing, so I'm going to get this out of the way. no, scripts do not do the same thing. Give scripts to a good player. Does he become godlike? No, his skills stay more or less the same.
BUT how else can he be so good!??! How can that random player in the pub kill 4 marines and leap away without tlosing even half his life? See, i believe that is mainly what the pubbers ask themselves after they get pretty much sodomized by players such as those. But the thing is, it is very possible to do that well without any scripts. You have to understand, and I don't nkow if i could emphasize this enough, that scripts do not allow you to do anymore than the game allows you. It's really what the player chooses to adapt to. I will guarantee you that a player who has adapted to using mousewheel to jump will bhop just as well as a player who uses +3jumps.
<b>So to sum it up, most scripts that ppl think actually help do NOT. Blink/swipe? Leap/bite? wiggle walk(run faster) script? THEY DO JACK ****. They can be done BETTER manually, but like I said its all about adapting and playing however you want. Now the scripts that DO make a difference is the 3jumps script and the pistol script. However, they too can be replicated and just as well with the mousewheel.</b>
What is your view, then, on using the mousewheel to jump? It is only a bind, but it is no less effective, assuming you have a good mousewheel, than using a script. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Using the menu to bind a key or button to jump is fine in my opinion.
I don't think it's about winning. It's about stating your opinions and seeing if the other folks agree, disagree, or don't care.
DragonMech is definitely stating his opinions, but there's no winning to be had here.
I'm eagerly awaiting the new scripting forum to see what I can learn from it.
From reading this thread there seems to be several main issues with scripting which has lead to the misconception of scripts allowing players to dominate and I'm going to try and address them one by one.
<b>Scripts offer an unfair advantage/Scripts let a player dominate and won then game:</b>
Lets clear this up straight away, the advantage a script offers will vary from user to user. I myself find advantage in using a 3jump script, the advantage of feeling comfortable with my config. I can bunnyhop without it but it’s not something I feel comfortable with. Allowing me to bunnyhop at top speeds without suffering from repetitive strain injury through using a mouse wheel is a big advantage to me.
Another individual may not benefit from a 3jump at all. A lot of players have become familiar and comfortable with mouse wheel bunnyhopping and use it primarily. A 3jump script will not have any effect on them at all.
The only advantage scripts offer is in customization. If I stick with the bunnyhopping example, you can bunnyhop with mouse wheel or with a 3jump. Neither is any more legit than the other and both do exactly the same things. As prodigy said, scripts do not allow you to do the impossible. Everything done with a script is doable by hand and use of a script to do certain actions does not mean a player is any less skillful or lazy than another.
<b>Scripts = Hacks:</b>
The argument that scripts are a third party program like a hack is just plain wrong. Scripts are built in to the Half-Life engine, Natural Selection and now even source. Now sure you cannot bind a script in your menu but that doesn’t mean it’s illegal, using a userconfig is not comparable to using a hack.
If you open your NS folder you’ll notice a file called Config.cfg. If you open this file you’ll see all sorts of things, these are your binds. What you bind in your menu is saved in a text file to prevent you constantly having to rebind keys. This file is not directly part of the game so by your reasoning is illegal.
Use of the console isn’t illegal either. How do you change your network rates without your console? How do you control your FPS and carry out any number of perfectly legal and in some cases required tasks without use of your console? Are you suggesting that these too are illegal?
<b>The flip side:</b>
There is a perfectly legal console command that is probably what you’re mistaking for a script. Hud_fastswitch 1 allows you to change weapons by just simply clicking the relevant slot. You no longer have to select the slot and then confirm it. This allows players to change weapons quickly and perform tasks like blink swiping so easily. If you’re not aware of this command then you can be forgiven for mistaking its purpose as being the work of a script. However now you know the truth.
When you see people using supposed leap bite and blink swipe all they’re doing is making use of this console command. Why it’s not set to 1 by default is totally beyond me. Leap bite scripts are totally redundant and actually hinder your play. They take away an element of control that is essential for NS and will actually get you killed. Those of you who used them and claim to have “dominated” should really find a new server.
Don’t mistake use of a legal bind (lastinv) and hud_fastswitch 1 as scripting. Both are perfectly legal and acceptable. If you see people switching weapons a lot, assume first that it is this, not a script.
<b>Conclusion</b>
Firstly, I write long posts with poor grammar. Secondly, any ‘advantage’ scripts add is merely down to allowing the player to feel comfortable with his Config. Think of it like this: you’d probably rather run in your own shoes than the gym teachers old size 12s.
For all you people who think I am wrong either you or I are ignorant. I am perfectly willing to discuss it with you on irc if you feel you can defend your position. If however you cannot or can just give second hand stories and pubber beliefs then stop posting here plz.
What is your view, then, on using the mousewheel to jump? It is only a bind, but it is no less effective, assuming you have a good mousewheel, than using a script. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Using the menu to bind a key or button to jump is fine in my opinion.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But using the mousewheel to jump is no less 'lazy' than using a script. I know, as I use either depending on whether mp_blockscripts is enabled. It makes no sense to consider a jump script unfair while claiming the mousewheel is not. Both accomplish the same effect.
I am for the ability to use scripts.
I have used the 3jump script for a long time, but had to stop doing it when GamingOrb league started, and I can tell you I have had no problems at all switching to mwheel for bunnyhopping instead, and the only reason why I still complain about mp_blockscripts being on is because I feel it's pointless and petty to stop people from using scripts when they give no advantage what so ever (exception being _special scripts which are gone in b6).
Completely explains scripting.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I did play with scripting for a week or so and it felt like I was cheating. The leap-bite script especially felt cheap.
It takes the skill out of the game. While people say that it's a mundane thing to do a successful leap-bite without scripting, it's not for me. If it was so mundane, then why is it so rampant? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So because you're to amazingly stupid to bind slot3 and slot1 to handy keys with hud_fastswitch 1, anyone leapbiting well is using a script? Oooookay.
I will never completely comprehend the inability to leap/bite and blink/swipe - I was able to do it before I could bunnyhop, before I knew what aircontrol was, why electrification sucked, what a walkerfade is, how to pancake or +duck fade. It was like within the first 90 minutes of playing NS, I hopped on a co_ server, got the points to go fade and figured out how to blinkswipe on co_kestrel (leapbiting took longer, because of having to hold crouch beforehand).
There has to be some amazing amount of willful ignorance or intimidation going around that people refuse to learn something that would confer them a serious advantage in no time. Its not even remotely abstract :/
(mind you, i have always done it the same way: lastinv).
it seems that more people spend their time whining about features instead of learning to use them, but thats just personal experience.
-Only here to check out the new site and beta 6
Thats from VERC, not only do valve support alias' (scripting) they also made it even easier to do for HL2.
Can we stop having these debates now?
About cheapness I recommend reading this:
<a href='http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart1.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart1.htm</a>
Those who want to argue those points is free to, but remember this. Putting people in the spawn queue is more fun than waiting there.
About cheapness I recommend reading this:
<a href='http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart1.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_PlayToWinPart1.htm</a>
Those who want to argue those points is free to, but remember this. Putting people in the spawn queue is more fun than waiting there.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"Play to Win" isn't the holy grail. It's a good starting mindset. You should read the 3rd part of the article <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Still, I have to agree with Firewater, I mean... it's a fps game and either you put people in the spawn cue or you wait there yourself. Which is more fun? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I will never completely comprehend the inability to leap/bite and blink/swipe - I was able to do it before I could bunnyhop, before I knew what aircontrol was, why electrification sucked, what a walkerfade is, how to pancake or +duck fade. It was like within the first 90 minutes of playing NS, I hopped on a co_ server, got the points to go fade and figured out how to blinkswipe on co_kestrel (leapbiting took longer, because of having to hold crouch beforehand).
There has to be some amazing amount of willful ignorance or intimidation going around that people refuse to learn something that would confer them a serious advantage in no time. Its not even remotely abstract :/ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And there you go insulting me without knowing anything about me.
For your information, that's exactly how I leapbite and fadeswipe. I do it well enough to use it, but after using a script to do it, I felt like I was cheating, it was so much easier.
When reading people's posts, it's like they're trying to submit a resume on how good they are at NS:
"It was like within the first 90 minutes of playing NS, I hopped on a co_ server, got the points to go fade and figured out how to blinkswipe on co_kestrel (leapbiting took longer, because of having to hold crouch beforehand)."
There's nothing that raises people's ire more than hearing how easy it is and how stupid others are because they can't do it as well. I'm almost kicking myself for taking your trollbait, but had to point out that most people don't play competitively and some of us even play the game for fun.
It's like the skier who has to race down the hill and then laughs when you take your time to enjoy the ride.
Unless of course you have separate keys bound to attacking with blink and attacking with swipe, but in that case it isnt really a blink/swipe script per definition.
Unless of course you have separate keys bound to attacking with blink and attacking with swipe, but in that case it isnt really a blink/swipe script per definition. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not only that, but I found it SO MUCH better using the script that I felt guilty about it.
As long as you blink into the person, which means aiming directly at them, you will be stopped when the models collide and the swipe will ALWAYS hit. Then you blink out and repeat after getting your energy back. I've used Hud_fastswitch since it was available in HL Deathmatch. It's MUCH more useful in NS because of the lack of multiple weapons for a slot. (unless you count welder/knife)
For an hour, I was an unholy terror with this script as a skulk. (I almost always play a superskulk rather than fade or Onos) When I tried it as a fade, I was just as successful, but was able to loiter and do damage for a longer time.
You might want to re-work your definition of impossible as it's probably based on fairly strict expectations.
For an hour, I was an unholy terror with this script as a skulk. (I almost always play a superskulk rather than fade or Onos) When I tried it as a fade, I was just as successful, but was able to loiter and do damage for a longer time.
You might want to re-work your definition of impossible as it's probably based on fairly strict expectations. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
OK, here's a secret about leap-skulking:
Press three.
Leap.
Press one or lastinv.
Bite.
Holy **** you just bit that marine!
so far, the only way i know to do that is with scripts, and with BS, well, its less like playing a wild biological creature and more like playing a marine with melee weapons and faster movements..... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->