<!--QuoteBegin-dr.d+Mar 12 2004, 10:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ Mar 12 2004, 10:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Don't the star destroyers have weak underhulls, or some other weakness that was exploited in the movie?
I think the Enterprise could detect something like that and self guided photon torpedos would be kind of hard to stop.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->The shields that are at least 3-4 orders of magnitude greater than the federation's best would defend it quite well enough. Also homing torpedoes don't seem to be equipped as standard, given the dumb-firing of torpedoes in most cases that have been seen.
Also it is metioned in an EU book that torpedoes have to be fired at close range to prevent them being picked off by the anti-fighter defences. I'll see if I can find a quote to back this up.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There's no logical reason an Enterprise would battle an ISD alone.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yep, because the ISD would be able to call in re-enforcements rapidly using high speed comms and hyperdrive whereas the federation ships are limited to the comparitively slow warp. How many times has the Enterprise been the only one able to respond in time?
<!--QuoteBegin-dr.d+Mar 12 2004, 10:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ Mar 12 2004, 10:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And since the Enterprise is not a warship of the Federation (it's been used for exploration) how about we compare the fact that the Empire was hated by most of the universe, while the Federation would probably be allied with every other race in either universe.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh, really? The Kingons don't seem very loyal to the Feds, the Romulans hate the Feds, The Cardassians are in ruins the Dominion is shredded, the Borg want to assimilate everybody and the rest of the races are minor players.
As for any rebellion, the local sector fleets should be enough to continue the Tarkin Doctrine (aka rule through fear of force), despite the fact that a couple of ISD's are diverted to expanding the Empire. (1 sector fleet=24 ISD's nominal strength. Core sectors have larger groups.) Its a big galaxy, and its mostly Imperial controlled.
There are powerful parties who would want the Empire to remain intact, Kuat Drive Yards, the major capital ship and walker armour producer for the Imperial forces; Seinar Fleet Systems, the producer of TIE's; Blastec a major small arms producer; the Corporate Sector Authority, a quasi-independant group of companies granted control of their own sector by the Imperials.
If anything, the stability granted by the Empire will ensure that most stay at best apathetic to the war, and due to the ability to control the information coming back from the front, propaganda may whip up the masses into a war frenzy.
I'll end with a quote: "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." -Hermann Göring
<!--QuoteBegin-Epoch666+Mar 12 2004, 11:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epoch666 @ Mar 12 2004, 11:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That was too funny. Has anyone else noticed that the Enterprise is 600m in length while the ISD is like 1 mile long or something stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Your point?
<!--QuoteBegin-Epoch666+Mar 12 2004, 11:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epoch666 @ Mar 12 2004, 11:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Besides the Enterprise would win because:
A. Phasers are more powerful then LASERs, hence why they never use them in Star-Trek (With the exceptions of less advanced races).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->As the Borg say, Irrelevent. The Empire has weapons that can do greater damage through their own energy than the Phasers can with their chain reactions <!--QuoteBegin-Epoch666+Mar 12 2004, 11:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epoch666 @ Mar 12 2004, 11:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->B. The Picard Maneuver <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>tm</span>, clickey <a href='http://www.ccdump.org/picardmaneuver.htm' target='_blank'>here</a>, As the ISD does not have sensors capable of decting ships moving in warp space I think they would be pwned by it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Ah, subspace has been in use in the SW galaxy since long before the federation. The thing is warp capable ships are beacons on subspace sensors. And then there's the whole gravatic distortions thing to worry about.
And even so, the Picard maneuver is useless if your weapons cannot do significant damage to the sheilds of your opponent. C. Picard begs Q to help blagging some favour that he owes them. Q clicks a finger and the ISD turns into a pizza slice that it looks like.
<!--QuoteBegin-Epoch666+Mar 12 2004, 11:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epoch666 @ Mar 12 2004, 11:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also I'd love to see a Defiant Class go up against a Star Destoryer. And how many ISD does it need to make a pizza?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ah the Q. They'll solve all the Feds problems! Just like they did in Best of Both Worlds... Wait, no they didn't. Just like Star Trek: First Contact... Wait, no they didn't Just like the Dominion War... Wait, no they didn't.
The Q don't seem to care about the Federation too much. The attitude appears to be "They've got to solve their own problems."
Picard: I don't want to have to have to destroy them.
*Enterprise gets beaten up*
Picard: Fire all phasers!
*phasers do bugger all*
Picard: Report!
Nameless Ensign #1: No effect sir, they are roxx0ring our boxx0rings.
Picard: Stop trying to pad out your roll Ensign and get back to pressing random buttons.
Data: Captain, our chance of victory is only blah blah blah percent, logic logic logic logic logic
Picard: Good point Data. Geordi?
Geordi: Well, we could re-modulate the E.P.S conduits to emmit a tachyon pulse of 5500 cochrens, which will reverse the polarity of our shields to create a hole in the space-time continuum which will...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Boom! the Enterprise is hit by a volley of fire and turned into a cloud of expanding vapour. Time isn't on their side, and as the Really Bad Guys they don't have to worry about who they're shooting. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Pfft, you're forgetting one important thing:
Whenever the enterprise comes up against an "unbeatable" enemy, said enemy will ALWAYS sit and do nothing while the enterprise formulates a brilliant and ridiculously complex plan, even if the enemy inhabits a different plane of existence, or is a microscopic virus that has been mutated by exposure to Worf's jockstrap.
This is one of the many laws of star trek, we hold these truths to be self evident. Do not try to ignore them, for they refuse to be ignored.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 12 2004, 11:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 12 2004, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->IThe fact is, imperial ships are designed to take things out in the smallest time possible. Pretty much all federation ships are designed for exploration, and if the need arises, to defend themselves (even the defiant was an exploration ship, albeit a cool one).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The Defiant is designated an escort destroyer, and is one of the few true warships desighed by the TNG federation. Still, due to the firepower and sheilding disparity, it will only pose a limited threat.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 12 2004, 11:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 12 2004, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Since we've established that the enterprise has no speed advantage over the ISD, a better comparison would be a skulk slowly climbing up a vent with a HA shooting at him with a HMG, while two GLs give covering fire from behind him. The enterprise has NO CHANCE.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's one of the best comparisons I have seen.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 12 2004, 11:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 12 2004, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But we've already stated that the Enterprise would never be in a situation where it has to fight an ISD one on one. Knowing the odds, it'd probably run (and although the ISD may be able to keep up with the enterprise, as far as i know, neither ships can fire weapons while in warp/hyperspace).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ST ships can fire at other ships when at warp. SW cannot. The Question is, can the Interdictor's Gravity Well generators prevent warp travel? If so, then any pitched battle is going to be a massicre. The ST ships would be unable to warp out, and the ISD's are capable of keeping up with a hot-rodded smugglers freighter. TNG "Booby Trap" suggests so.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 12 2004, 11:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 12 2004, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->To make this anywhere near a fair argument, we need to expand it: The entire Star Wars universe vs The Entire Star Trek universe. Lets assume that the rebellion and the imperials have put aside their differences and joined forces against the Star Trekkies, and all the Trek races have banded together to fight the Star Wars people. That conversion/discussion would be more interesting because, hey, you can involve proper tactics, all the races, hand to hand fighting ability, and planetry bombardment and invasion.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->This depends, do you include all the aliens of the week, gods and demi-gods that pop up regularly in ST? If so, SW is defeated by act of omnipotent being.
If not, the best tactic would be to use the strategic speed advantage given by hyperspace to hit the enemies infrastructure in a series of hit and run raids, denying the enemy the ability to concentrate their forces or face a lack of war material. When the enemy breaks up his forces, then destroy the enemy in detail, focusing your strength on the scattered ships.
Then, let the SW invasions begin. Use the massive advantage of combined arms to over whelm your opponents with armour, infantry, artillery and close air support. If the defenders are proving difficult to shift, then the Imperials will be able to use chemical and biological weapons to aid the stormtroopers in clearing the forts and caves. That is unless you want to hit them with a TL strike.
If the survivors get restless, then a quick demonstration of the Imperial capability and willingness to slag a world should cause the open rebelion to quieten down alot. This, combined with a propaganda onslaught, would hopefully keep the captured worlds in line.
All scouting to be done by probe droids and hyperspace capable fighters.
Woah woah woah... has the Saucer Section detached? Because if it had, thats a lot more manueverability, lesser surface area, less threat to civilians, et cetera, with no tradeoff other than some phaser banks.
Wouldn't it be funny if we had important things to talk about?
Anyway, as I flip through the Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual, I can easily see that the Enterprise is dead.
The main reason the Enterprise will lose is because they will lose almost their entire crew in the first attack. Think about it, anyone in a red shirt is GONE right away.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
edited March 2004
The borg are capable in their own rights. They may not be smart (come on, they're androids, they're "super intelligent", yet they prefer to spend 10 minutes punching a door down instead of haxoring the control pannel), but they're good at what they do, and that's taking over planets.
Since there is an abundance of borg cubes, they would definately capture an imperial ship sooner or later. Boarding borg are far more powerful than they seem. They would *eventually* adapt to the stormtroopers blasters, which means they'd take over a decent part of the ship (a borg cube holds thousands of drones, and they have holding beam technology, which transports many borg all over the ship) before the imperials learnt to use fletchet weapons to fight them. Many borg also have energy weapons built into their arms, and of course, they have that sheer "We can't be stopped just give up" terror about them. They would capture a ship, and then the Trekkies would have access to hyperdrive engines and gravity well generators too.
The federation would most likely go around the outer-rim planets, trying to convince the people to join them against the imperial/rebelion forces. Since a lot (if not all, remember, the borg have THOUSANDS of ships and billions and billions of drones) of the fleet would be engaging the borg in various fights (since the borg don't use shields, they simply regenerate the damage that's been done, that'd be one hell of a fight to watch because it'd be like, 3-4 cubes per ISD).
Klingons and cardassions etc would be used as shocktroops for ground based assaults on planets. Although i'm not too sure whether the star trek universe goes into a lot of detail on ground assault-based-vehicles (so i won't pretend to know about them), but i'd imagine there must be *some* form of tank or something.
I don't know about cloaking technology. I don't know if the star wars people would have anything at this stage to detect cloaked ships (if they couldn't Shinzon's ship from Nemesis would be a great, great asset. Cloaked, shielded, and able to fire, and a pretty damn large phaser battery).
I'm trying to stay clear of any of the stranger species. Species 8472, for example, is pretty much unharmed by any energy based weapons (three of their ships took out a whole fleet of Borg for christ's sake, not one of them got hurt), they can survive in space, and once loose on a ship.... well, goodbye ship. Alien, skulk and predator rolled into one with a seriously fast regeneration cycle and ability to kill people by scratching them. But i won't use them, because they're not really a huge part of the Star Trek universe (a few episodes of voyager). Oh, and the dominion fleet. That was huge.
Oh, and when you're counter-acting each and every one of my posts with cool, calm logic, please don't make me look like such an idiot this time <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
*EDIT*
I'm going to regret disagreeing with you, but i'm sure i remember the Defiant being a scout ship designed for the delta quadrant, hence the romulans letting the Federation use a cloaking device, since it was for Exploration and self defence (while it was exploring that is) only, not attack or excort.
I thought of something: exactly how fast can an Imperial Star Destroyer actually *go*? Remember that speed is completely relative; if everything in the Star Wars universe is already pretty fast, an X-Wing will still do loops around an ISD, but they could both be travelling at a significant fraction of the speed of light.
Oh, and in terms of weak spots, that might be a problem. The two lumps on top of the bridge of an ISD are the shield generators; a skilled X-Wing pilot can take out an ISD by themself. Perhaps not in the dogma, but in the game. Incidentally, the hangar bay is also marked as a weak spot, but it's obviously not nearly as critical as destroying the shield generators.
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
edited March 2004
hm..
<!--QuoteBegin-medhead+ --></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (medhead @ )</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now try putting a ship from Star Wars into Star Trek. Doesn't work. Why? Because they're not compatible. The universe is definitely in question, regardless of what you claim otherwise. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
there are SIMILARITIES to the universes of star trek and star wars..
like, in BOTH of those universes, there is air in space to carry sound!!!
ie: in space, lasers go PEOWPEOW!!! instead of being inaudible.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The borg are capable in their own rights. They may not be smart (come on, they're androids, they're "super intelligent", yet they prefer to spend 10 minutes punching a door down instead of haxoring the control pannel), but they're good at what they do, and that's taking over planets.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Eh, the Borg. Hit them with superweapons, its the easiest, fastest and safest way. Especally Galaxy Gun missles and Suncrusher torpedoes. Or point the Yuuzon Vong at them. They hate machines...
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Since there is an abundance of borg cubes, they would definately capture an imperial ship sooner or later. Boarding borg are far more powerful than they seem. They would *eventually* adapt to the stormtroopers blasters,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Time to break out the Golan Arms FC1 flechette lanchers, and get a load of Nogri marines. The Drones don't handle KE at all well. And I'm sure a few E-WEBs will make mincemeat of the drones. Their adaptation is not limitless, and E-Webs are huge.<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Many borg also have energy weapons built into their arms,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yet they never <i>use</i> them... <!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and of course, they have that sheer "We can't be stopped just give up" terror about them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Species 8472 was able to take them apart in close combat easily. Nogri from SW should be able to do as good a job of it. <!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->They would capture a ship, and then the Trekkies would have access to hyperdrive engines and gravity well generators too.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->That wouldn't be all that likely, since SW doesn't have its technical experts onboard its ships, and reverse engineering something from another culture entirely isn't that easy. It would be like giving a tribesman a car to attempt to build.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The federation would most likely go around the outer-rim planets, trying to convince the people to join them against the imperial/rebelion forces.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->I thought you said everyone in each galaxy was allied? And anyway, while your sending ships around the Outer Rim, your outlying colonies are under attack, your supply lines raided. I don't think your ships would get far before being called back. <!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Since a lot (if not all, remember, the borg have THOUSANDS of ships and billions and billions of drones) of the fleet would be engaging the borg in various fights (since the borg don't use shields, they simply regenerate the damage that's been done, that'd be one hell of a fight to watch because it'd be like, 3-4 cubes per ISD).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Hey, the empire has 25000 ISD's. Thats thousands. Add in the Rebelion's Caalamari crusiers and the larger strategic fleets and the local defence forces and you're outnumbered. and outgunned.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Klingons and cardassions etc would be used as shocktroops for ground based assaults on planets.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Klingons? The guys whos idea of an attack is a massed infantry charge with pointy sticks? They get introduced to the lesson "Never charge into HMG's". As for the Cardassians, they aren't a major player after the Jem'Hadar destroyed their homeworld. <!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Although i'm not too sure whether the star trek universe goes into a lot of detail on ground assault-based-vehicles (so i won't pretend to know about them), but i'd imagine there must be *some* form of tank or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Ground vehcals seen=1 A buggy with a rear facing phaser. Tanks metioned=once. ST=losers on the defensive. No chance on the offensive (Planetary shields make landing a little difficult)
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't know about cloaking technology. I don't know if the star wars people would have anything at this stage to detect cloaked ships (if they couldn't Shinzon's ship from Nemesis would be a great, great asset. Cloaked, shielded, and able to fire, and a pretty damn large phaser battery).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Crystalline Gravtrap sensors can detect cloaked vessels. ISD's probably don't have it as standard though (TESB, Captain Needa states "No ship that small has a cloaking device" about the Millenium Falcon.) Star Wars cloaks are double blind (I can't see you, you can't see me) but sheilds and weapons can be used.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm trying to stay clear of any of the stranger species. Species 8472, for example, is pretty much unharmed by any energy based weapons (three of their ships took out a whole fleet of Borg for christ's sake, not one of them got hurt), they can survive in space, and once loose on a ship.... well, goodbye ship. Alien, skulk and predator rolled into one with a seriously fast regeneration cycle and ability to kill people by scratching them. But i won't use them, because they're not really a huge part of the Star Trek universe (a few episodes of voyager).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Species 8472 are quite nasty. its an avoid if possible, until we can devote sufficient assets to destroy. <!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Oh, and the dominion fleet. That was huge.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->The plan is to hit and run their supply depots, split up the fleet to make them defend, and then destruction by detail time.
Also, the relative slowness of warp compaired to hyperdrive and the size of the SW galaxy allows Star Wars a strong resource base (interesting fact, the material for the DS 2 was transported by one shipping company and it still remained covert until the project was revealed to use as a trap) which is nearly invunerable to attack, while being able to hit Star Trek targets almost at will.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Oh, and when you're counter-acting each and every one of my posts with cool, calm logic, please don't make me look like such an idiot this time <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->The truth is I spend <i>far</i> too much time on a Star Wars vs Star Trek BBS <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo--> I came for the fan fiction, and stayed for the whole package. It also helps that I'm using a canon database for both Star Wars and Star Trek, and the calculations from the same site. I know I've posted a link at least once.
<!--QuoteBegin-SoulSkorpion+Mar 13 2004, 01:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Mar 13 2004, 01:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I thought of something: exactly how fast can an Imperial Star Destroyer actually *go*? Remember that speed is completely relative; if everything in the Star Wars universe is already pretty fast, an X-Wing will still do loops around an ISD, but they could both be travelling at a significant fraction of the speed of light.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Maximum sublight= just less than c. Hyperdrive = millions of c <!--QuoteBegin-SoulSkorpion+Mar 13 2004, 01:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Mar 13 2004, 01:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Oh, and in terms of weak spots, that might be a problem. The two lumps on top of the bridge of an ISD are the shield generators; a skilled X-Wing pilot can take out an ISD by themself. Perhaps not in the dogma, but in the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Its a game, so its not as high on the level of canonicity, due to game balance. Also, what use is a shield generator that doesn't cover itself?
And the 'sheild generators' have a very similar appearance to the radomes on modern ships.
<!--QuoteBegin-SoulSkorpion+Mar 13 2004, 01:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Mar 13 2004, 01:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Incidentally, the hangar bay is also marked as a weak spot, but it's obviously not nearly as critical as destroying the shield generators.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Its a big piece cut out of the armour. Of course its a weakspot. But the shields are strong enough to shrug off all but an extremely large ST fleet attack The Old Republic Acclamator troop transport can dissipate 70 trillion GW peak sheild loading.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
I'd like to make one thing clear from here on: This isn't my strategy, i'm just trying to think what the star trek people would do in the situation.
If anyone else joins in with this, leave the Q out of it. Not only are they completely impossible to defeat by anything (other than another Q, but they don't fight any more because that wipes out universes), they would probably just sit back and watch since they've seen it all before anyway.
About the Borg not being able to simply take technology and replicate it immediately.... i don't quite follow you on that one. That's pretty much all they do. They nick technology off other races, take the best bits, and add it to an already formidable arsenal. They've got pretty damn good at it over the centuries.
Also, something i forgot about, the Borg have transwarp. If the borg are now working with the Federation, who have research in what is practically stopping time, and other races who can make ships and probably stations invisible to all conventional scanners, and even the eye, that is gonna be one hell of a transportation system. I know Hyperspace is fast, but Transwarp is pretty much instant.
The borg do use the energy weapons (they have done in a few spinoff things etc), they just don't do it often because quite frankly, they have no need. Why waste energy? Ok, so you lose, what, 4 of your people to take over a ship and it's crew? And those four people can be taken apart and their parts reused anyway.
Drawing from games of the Star Trek universe, the Federation have actually invented a single seat fighter craft, and carrier ships for them. Since they know about the fighter cover which is always present in Star Wars, they'd almost definately mass produce these craft. Because pretty much every single ship in star trek is nicely shielded, one of these fighters is at least a match for any star wars fighter. And i remember an episode of Voyager once, where voyager encountered this race which had millions and millions of fighters that swarmed to attack (i think the episode was the swarm, or the hoard, or some stupid name like that). What i'm trying to say here is, Star Trek has pretty decent fighter cover too.
I'm currently stuck as to what would be a direct match for an ISD, yet alone a Super SD. 3 Borg Cubes, 2 excelsier (can't spell that, it's the new enterprise's model anyway) class starships and a few romulan warbirds would probably be able to take one down. And i'm not sure, but i think Star Trek weaponary is generally more accurate. For instance, an entire fleet of Star Trek vessels can concentrate fire on the exact same spot, whereas the Star Wars universe just seems to hurl blaster bolts at things until they stop working any more. While that's a pretty good tactic considering the firepower of Star Wars ships, it does mean that a few good manouvers would mean that a small fleet of Star Trek vessels would find it fairly easy to knock out the shield generators on a Star Destroyer (7 ships, including 3 borg cubes which have pretty damn powerful weapons, all focusing fire on the shield generator, would knock it out pretty quickly).
Again, drawing from the games, there's a weapon called "chain reaction pulsar", which basically is a big ball that bounces between enemy ships, damaging and drawing energy from each one until it has a lot of power and explodes. About 10 ships firing them into a crowd of fighters would decimate all of them. But that's just from a game, i have no idea if it's part of the universe as a whole.
They would lose a lot of outlying planets, it's true. But the borg have countless hundreds of planets, and seemingly endless resources, at their disposal. A few planets lost here and there would only increase their determination to win the war, and would probably grant them some special powers in what they'll use (the federation does not want to mess around with temporal distorsion, for example, but in circumstances such as these, they may give people the right to use it to end the war). Also, a star trek planetary bombardment can be just as deadly as a star wars one.
As an interesting side note, there was a mod made for "Star Trek: Armada" called "Star Trek vs. Star Wars", and it's almost impossible to win as the star trek side because of sheer weight of numbers. Any one star trek ship is more than a match for any one star wars ship (in this game, apart from ISD and Super ISDs), yet the star wars side seemed able to produce 4 X as many ships. But i don't think that'd count much in this debate thing, because the borg alone must have near unlimited resources and countless shipyards.
The only truly unsettling thing about this whole thing is the Force... there's no direct comparison in Star Trek other than the Q really, and while in the time period being discussed there's like, 2 Jedi and one of them is nearly dead and the other isn't fully trained, i'd have to ask people not to use any "Will o' the force" things.
<!--QuoteBegin-Bill Door+Mar 13 2004, 09:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bill Door @ Mar 13 2004, 09:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-SoulSkorpion+Mar 13 2004, 01:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Mar 13 2004, 01:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I thought of something: exactly how fast can an Imperial Star Destroyer actually *go*? Remember that speed is completely relative; if everything in the Star Wars universe is already pretty fast, an X-Wing will still do loops around an ISD, but they could both be travelling at a significant fraction of the speed of light.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Maximum sublight= just less than c. Hyperdrive = millions of c <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I meant sublight engines. You can't really fight in hyperspace. Someone earlier mentioned that impulse engines move the Enterprise at a significant fraction of the speed of light even in combat. I was just wondering how fast a Star Destroyer can go without engaging the hyperdrive (since a hyperdrive is really more of what you'd call a "jump drive" than a booster. Ie, it sends you to a specific destination in a short amount of time, rather than simply making your ship go really fast thus enabling you to go where you point your ship in a short amount of time).
Of course, if the Enterprise can fight while going at warp, it changes everything.
...
Another point: it's not just speed that determines how easy it is to hit a target. It's also the size of what you're trying to hit, and the agility. The Enterprise is quite a bit bigger than an X-Wing, and (I'd imagine) quite a bit less agile. An X-Wing on approach to a Star Destroyer can dodge turbolasers relatively easily by changing direction. I can't imagine the Enterprise making a quick 50 degree turn, keeping nearly all of its velocity, and none of the turbolasers clipping it (even if the lasers don't hit the part of the ship they were originally being aimed at).
...
I don't know if it's been dealt with, but someone mentioned that from certain angles of approach an ISD's lasers don't reach. That's true, but an ISD's defenses aren't only its lasers. Star Destroyers carry something like an order of magnitude more starfighters than an aircraft carrier has fighters.
...
(gee, this is a long post <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->).
I've just remembered that when I was in primary school I used to play a game with a friend of mine (who's a Star Trek fan) called a "mind war", where we'd pit starships and such against each other (in our heads, hence the name). If I remember correctly, what fared best against Star Trek technology was the stuff from Wing Commander. Now, the TCS Concordia vs a Star Destroyer would be an interesting match <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'd like to make one thing clear from here on: This isn't my strategy, i'm just trying to think what the star trek people would do in the situation.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Fair enough.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If anyone else joins in with this, leave the Q out of it. Not only are they completely impossible to defeat by anything (other than another Q, but they don't fight any more because that wipes out universes), they would probably just sit back and watch since they've seen it all before anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->True.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->About the Borg not being able to simply take technology and replicate it immediately.... i don't quite follow you on that one. That's pretty much all they do. They nick technology off other races, take the best bits, and add it to an already formidable arsenal. They've got pretty damn good at it over the centuries. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That is true, but the big problems with repliciating the technology are the resources required the completely different technology base and actually getting the tech in the first place.
The Borg aren't likely to be able to do anything except copy directly unless they know the basic principles behind it. And the Empire is not going to make it easy for them to capture anyone who knows how it works.
They're going to need to set up a totally new industry to extract, process and then create the weapons. That will not happen overnight.
And finally, if the Borg do manage to board and start assimalating, the crew would be ordered to abandon ship and the captain would set up a self destruct, probably set up on a 'Dead man switch' system, where if he releases the switch, the self destruct blows, destroying the ship and rendering it an unintellegable debris field.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, something i forgot about, the Borg have transwarp. If the borg are now working with the Federation, who have research in what is practically stopping time, and other races who can make ships and probably stations invisible to all conventional scanners, and even the eye, that is gonna be one hell of a transportation system. I know Hyperspace is fast, but Transwarp is pretty much instant.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Hyperspace varies from 1.2 million c to 50 million c depending on hyperdrive rating and navagational hazards.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The borg do use the energy weapons (they have done in a few spinoff things etc), they just don't do it often because quite frankly, they have no need. Why waste energy? Ok, so you lose, what, 4 of your people to take over a ship and it's crew? And those four people can be taken apart and their parts reused anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->That would change when E-WEBs and flechette launchers start getting used. Unfortunatly for the Borg, the disrupters are unlikely to do much damage to the stormies. The performance of all other star trek small arms against packing crates has been abysmal
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Drawing from games of the Star Trek universe, the Federation have actually invented a single seat fighter craft, and carrier ships for them. Since they know about the fighter cover which is always present in Star Wars, they'd almost definately mass produce these craft. Because pretty much every single ship in star trek is nicely shielded, one of these fighters is at least a match for any star wars fighter. And i remember an episode of Voyager once, where voyager encountered this race which had millions and millions of fighters that swarmed to attack (i think the episode was the swarm, or the hoard, or some stupid name like that). What i'm trying to say here is, Star Trek has pretty decent fighter cover too.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yet in the canon universe they use barely any fighters. I wonder why?
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm currently stuck as to what would be a direct match for an ISD, yet alone a Super SD. 3 Borg Cubes, 2 excelsier (can't spell that, it's the new enterprise's model anyway) class starships and a few romulan warbirds would probably be able to take one down.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->The problem is actually getting a single ISD on its own, as the plan is to attack lightly defended targets as a group, having used a set of probe droids or a reconnasance version of the TIE fighter. <!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And i'm not sure, but i think Star Trek weaponary is generally more accurate. For instance, an entire fleet of Star Trek vessels can concentrate fire on the exact same spot, whereas the Star Wars universe just seems to hurl blaster bolts at things until they stop working any more.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->If you're going to wait until spitting distance to engage, then yes, that would be true. They do a fairly good job at hurling turbolaser bolts at ships barely in visual range. <!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->While that's a pretty good tactic considering the firepower of Star Wars ships, it does mean that a few good manouvers would mean that a small fleet of Star Trek vessels would find it fairly easy to knock out the shield generators on a Star Destroyer (7 ships, including 3 borg cubes which have pretty damn powerful weapons, all focusing fire on the shield generator, would knock it out pretty quickly).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Some numbers for the weapons power output? After all the old republic Acclamitor transports have a peak disipation rate of 70 trillion GW. For comparison, the Galaxy has a peak dissipation rate of 3300 GW
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Again, drawing from the games, there's a weapon called "chain reaction pulsar", which basically is a big ball that bounces between enemy ships, damaging and drawing energy from each one until it has a lot of power and explodes. About 10 ships firing them into a crowd of fighters would decimate all of them. But that's just from a game, i have no idea if it's part of the universe as a whole.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->the licence owners say it isn't
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->They would lose a lot of outlying planets, it's true. But the borg have countless hundreds of planets, and seemingly endless resources, at their disposal.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yet after about a dozen attacks they were looking at defeat... <!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A few planets lost here and there would only increase their determination to win the war, and would probably grant them some special powers in what they'll use (the federation does not want to mess around with temporal distorsion, for example, but in circumstances such as these, they may give people the right to use it to end the war). Also, a star trek planetary bombardment can be just as deadly as a star wars one.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Strange that in 'The Die is Cast' the fleets didn't turn the world into a molten glowing ball...
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As an interesting side note, there was a mod made for "Star Trek: Armada" called "Star Trek vs. Star Wars", and it's almost impossible to win as the star trek side because of sheer weight of numbers. Any one star trek ship is more than a match for any one star wars ship (in this game, apart from ISD and Super ISDs), yet the star wars side seemed able to produce 4 X as many ships. But i don't think that'd count much in this debate thing, because the borg alone must have near unlimited resources and countless shipyards.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Its an unoffcial mod...
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The only truly unsettling thing about this whole thing is the Force... there's no direct comparison in Star Trek other than the Q really, and while in the time period being discussed there's like, 2 Jedi and one of them is nearly dead and the other isn't fully trained, i'd have to ask people not to use any "Will o' the force" things.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, the lack of trained force sensitives did rule that out as one of the effecive weapons.
And as a scale note, the Empire directly controls a million systems. There are over four hundred billion stars, and 20 million intellegent species spread across 12 million planets. Millions of ships supply Coruscant with the nessicary food to feep the city-planet fed daily.
60% of the 900km DS2 was built in <i>5 months</i> All the raw materials were shipped in by one private freight company.
The Trade Federation was able to blockade Naboo with enough 2 mile wide ships to have each evenly spaced at 10 miles apart across the whole planet. Thousands of ships. And this was dismissed as trivial by a character.
The 25000 ISD's were built in 20 years, and are not considered particually big vessels by their standards. Invincible class dreadnaughts, 2 km long, were patrolling the stars generations before the first ISD's. Also, there are countless smaller vessels which have been patrolling for millenia.
<!--QuoteBegin-SoulSkorpion+Mar 13 2004, 02:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Mar 13 2004, 02:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Of course, if the Enterprise can fight while going at warp, it changes everything.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Star Trek ships can engage at warp providing the targetted ship is also at warp. SW doesn't have warp drive, so that makes that point a little pointless.
<!--QuoteBegin-SoulSkorpion+Mar 13 2004, 02:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Mar 13 2004, 02:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've just remembered that when I was in primary school I used to play a game with a friend of mine (who's a Star Trek fan) called a "mind war", where we'd pit starships and such against each other (in our heads, hence the name). If I remember correctly, what fared best against Star Trek technology was the stuff from Wing Commander. Now, the TCS Concordia vs a Star Destroyer would be an interesting match <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->I don't know enough about Wing Commander to debate it.
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 12 2004, 04:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 12 2004, 04:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You all seem to be forgetting one thing: The empire loses. All it's ships (apart from some that run away), get pwned. The enterprise has never lost. Sure, it's been destroyed a few times, but the crew has always survived, and it always takes out the enemy before it blows up.
Tie Fighters? No shields at all (if i remember rightly),
And in answer to a previous post: Death Star Vs Borg Cube? Borg, no problem <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> then again if all the main characters died that would kinda end the show lol/...
TIE fighters and bombers do not have shields but TIE Advanced fighters, assault boats, and gunboats do.
Doesnt the borg need to be hit or something first so they can adapt?
What if they get hit by the huge mega cannon first and die so they cant adapt the shields on their cube?
anyways this debate could go on forever. so yea lets compromise
Star destoryer would win some and enterprise would win some. and in others they would tie. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
A simple little ditty to remind you who would win:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> to all you Vader haters out there we'll blow your planet up ... We got death star, we got death star We got death star, we got death star... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Death Star -> earth, BEWM! Bye-bye federation.
As to Enterprise vs. ISD... um. The Star destroyer could just have all of its fighters and bombers RAM the enterprise. And it would die. Not to mention, turbolasers can reach thousands of klicks. Especially the heavy ones. I have yet to see the Enterprise engage in combat from so much as more than 100 km. *edit* that's generous; most of the time star trek ships fight from a distance where you could probably throw a brick from the bridge of one ship and hit the other one.
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
edited March 2004
Over on grudge match .com were people can vote for the winnars.
USS Enterprise vs Death Star <a href='http://www.grudge-match.com/History/ds-enterprise.shtml' target='_blank'>http://www.grudge-match.com/History/ds-enterprise.shtml</a> Death Star wins
Han Solo vs Capt. Kirk in a bar fight <a href='http://www.grudge-match.com/History/ensign-stormtrooper.shtml' target='_blank'>http://www.grudge-match.com/History/ensign...rmtrooper.shtml</a> Han Solo wins
Chewbacca vs Worf <a href='http://www.grudge-match.com/History/chew-worf.shtml' target='_blank'>http://www.grudge-match.com/History/chew-worf.shtml</a> Chewbacca wins
lol 7 of 9 beat princess leia by 1.2%
lol I jsut made an offical request on the site for our enterprise vs star destroyer debate <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-SoulSkorpion+Mar 12 2004, 08:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Mar 12 2004, 08:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I thought of something: exactly how fast can an Imperial Star Destroyer actually *go*? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ludicrous speed.
anyway, who would win would depend on who was writing the story...
if we were staying within the Trek universe and the question was, what would win, a borg cube or the enterprise -- we'd all say the borg cube, it's obviously much more powerful... and I'm no trekkie, but have there not been episodes where the enterprise has taken one down or outsmarted one, etc etc? if not, my metaphor still stands... another example: x-wing vs. death star... which wins? laughable question posed like that, but we all saw the movie...
most fiction writers would have the enterprise win, because it's the good guy and it's the underdog and it'd be downright more interesting to read/see/whatever. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
besides, they'll both just be wiped out when the vogons decide they're fighting on the location of the newest planned hyperspace bypass...
*runs away from the nurdfite before the whining and the slapping recommences* <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-DiscoZombie+Mar 13 2004, 03:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DiscoZombie @ Mar 13 2004, 03:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> another example: x-wing vs. death star... which wins? laughable question posed like that, but we all saw the movie...
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> aw, cmon, it was the death star vs. a rebel fleet/base and a few squadrons of fighters, it wasn't just one x-wing <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
edited March 2004
The main problem with me being in this debate is that i'm stupid. the last star trek thing i watched was Nemesis in the cinema, and i hadn't watched the series for ages before that.
So i hand my side over to someone who knows stuff on the basis that i know nothing.
**EDIT**
And Red Dwarf could take on Star Wars and Star Trek COMBINED because they have the luck virus. Lister could take it, throw a rock out of the window and it'd bounce off the critical points of ALL the ships and blow them all up.
I'm Sorry everybody I shouldn't really post when I am drunk <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
whoa there, let's stop the flaming; star trek tries to make things realistic, but let's face it: it's sci-fi, it doesn't have to be realistic. We've had many discussions about the difference between suspension of disbelief and realism. What about NS? Is it inferior to, say, Day of Defeat because "OMG IT DOESN'T HAVE NRG FOR JUMPING!!!11oneone TOTALLY UNBELIEVABLE AND UNREALISTIC!"
*edit* and you know what Star Wars has that Star Trek doesn't? Totally BADASS LASERS that blow up planets!
And by the way: sad but true; many foreigners who do not speak English as their first language actually do it better than people who have been speaking it since birth.
<!--QuoteBegin-Wheeee+Mar 13 2004, 10:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wheeee @ Mar 13 2004, 10:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And by the way: sad but true; many foreigners who do not speak English as their first language actually do it better than people who have been speaking it since birth. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes - my two Swedish buddies never, <i>ever</i> confuse "your" with "you're."
Cleaned up a little because I highly enjoyed the thread and refuse to let it crumble under a single stupid post.
As for my opinion, imagine the following scene:
(Exchange Cpt. Kirk by Picard if you wish; hating Shatner with a burning passion, I'll use him for this example.)
Cpt.Kirk standing on the bridge; the main screen shows the Imperial Star Destroyer. Some ensign: "Target acquired, sir." *Slowly growing deep hum.* Cpt.Kirk: "Good. Phaser banks and torpedoes - fi - *choke* *gurgle*" *Kirk is being lifted off the ground, clutching his neck.* Cpt.Kirk: *Further gurgling until his head sags to the side.* *The limp body sags to the floor.* Spock: "Fascinating."
Comments
I think the Enterprise could detect something like that and self guided photon torpedos would be kind of hard to stop.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->The shields that are at least 3-4 orders of magnitude greater than the federation's best would defend it quite well enough. Also homing torpedoes don't seem to be equipped as standard, given the dumb-firing of torpedoes in most cases that have been seen.
Also it is metioned in an EU book that torpedoes have to be fired at close range to prevent them being picked off by the anti-fighter defences. I'll see if I can find a quote to back this up.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There's no logical reason an Enterprise would battle an ISD alone.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yep, because the ISD would be able to call in re-enforcements rapidly using high speed comms and hyperdrive whereas the federation ships are limited to the comparitively slow warp. How many times has the Enterprise been the only one able to respond in time?
<!--QuoteBegin-dr.d+Mar 12 2004, 10:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ Mar 12 2004, 10:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And since the Enterprise is not a warship of the Federation (it's been used for exploration) how about we compare the fact that the Empire was hated by most of the universe, while the Federation would probably be allied with every other race in either universe.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, really? The Kingons don't seem very loyal to the Feds, the Romulans hate the Feds, The Cardassians are in ruins the Dominion is shredded, the Borg want to assimilate everybody and the rest of the races are minor players.
As for any rebellion, the local sector fleets should be enough to continue the Tarkin Doctrine (aka rule through fear of force), despite the fact that a couple of ISD's are diverted to expanding the Empire. (1 sector fleet=24 ISD's nominal strength. Core sectors have larger groups.) Its a big galaxy, and its mostly Imperial controlled.
There are powerful parties who would want the Empire to remain intact, Kuat Drive Yards, the major capital ship and walker armour producer for the Imperial forces; Seinar Fleet Systems, the producer of TIE's; Blastec a major small arms producer; the Corporate Sector Authority, a quasi-independant group of companies granted control of their own sector by the Imperials.
If anything, the stability granted by the Empire will ensure that most stay at best apathetic to the war, and due to the ability to control the information coming back from the front, propaganda may whip up the masses into a war frenzy.
I'll end with a quote:
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." -Hermann Göring
Has anyone else noticed that the Enterprise is 600m in length while the ISD is like 1 mile long or something stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Your point?
<!--QuoteBegin-Epoch666+Mar 12 2004, 11:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epoch666 @ Mar 12 2004, 11:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Besides the Enterprise would win because:
A. Phasers are more powerful then LASERs, hence why they never use them in Star-Trek (With the exceptions of less advanced races).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->As the Borg say, Irrelevent. The Empire has weapons that can do greater damage through their own energy than the Phasers can with their chain reactions
<!--QuoteBegin-Epoch666+Mar 12 2004, 11:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epoch666 @ Mar 12 2004, 11:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->B. The Picard Maneuver <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>tm</span>, clickey <a href='http://www.ccdump.org/picardmaneuver.htm' target='_blank'>here</a>, As the ISD does not have sensors capable of decting ships moving in warp space I think they would be pwned by it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Ah, subspace has been in use in the SW galaxy since long before the federation. The thing is warp capable ships are beacons on subspace sensors. And then there's the whole gravatic distortions thing to worry about.
And even so, the Picard maneuver is useless if your weapons cannot do significant damage to the sheilds of your opponent.
C. Picard begs Q to help blagging some favour that he owes them. Q clicks a finger and the ISD turns into a pizza slice that it looks like.
<!--QuoteBegin-Epoch666+Mar 12 2004, 11:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epoch666 @ Mar 12 2004, 11:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also I'd love to see a Defiant Class go up against a Star Destoryer. And how many ISD does it need to make a pizza?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah the Q. They'll solve all the Feds problems! Just like they did in Best of Both Worlds... Wait, no they didn't.
Just like Star Trek: First Contact...
Wait, no they didn't
Just like the Dominion War...
Wait, no they didn't.
The Q don't seem to care about the Federation too much. The attitude appears to be "They've got to solve their own problems."
Picard: On screen!
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah , talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk
Picard: I don't want to have to have to destroy them.
*Enterprise gets beaten up*
Picard: Fire all phasers!
*phasers do bugger all*
Picard: Report!
Nameless Ensign #1: No effect sir, they are roxx0ring our boxx0rings.
Picard: Stop trying to pad out your roll Ensign and get back to pressing random buttons.
Data: Captain, our chance of victory is only blah blah blah percent, logic logic logic logic logic
Picard: Good point Data. Geordi?
Geordi: Well, we could re-modulate the E.P.S conduits to emmit a tachyon pulse of 5500 cochrens, which will reverse the polarity of our shields to create a hole in the space-time continuum which will...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Boom! the Enterprise is hit by a volley of fire and turned into a cloud of expanding vapour.
Time isn't on their side, and as the Really Bad Guys they don't have to worry about who they're shooting. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pfft, you're forgetting one important thing:
Whenever the enterprise comes up against an "unbeatable" enemy, said enemy will ALWAYS sit and do nothing while the enterprise formulates a brilliant and ridiculously complex plan, even if the enemy inhabits a different plane of existence, or is a microscopic virus that has been mutated by exposure to Worf's jockstrap.
This is one of the many laws of star trek, we hold these truths to be self evident. Do not try to ignore them, for they refuse to be ignored.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 12 2004, 11:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 12 2004, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Since we've established that the enterprise has no speed advantage over the ISD, a better comparison would be a skulk slowly climbing up a vent with a HA shooting at him with a HMG, while two GLs give covering fire from behind him. The enterprise has NO CHANCE.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's one of the best comparisons I have seen.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 12 2004, 11:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 12 2004, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But we've already stated that the Enterprise would never be in a situation where it has to fight an ISD one on one. Knowing the odds, it'd probably run (and although the ISD may be able to keep up with the enterprise, as far as i know, neither ships can fire weapons while in warp/hyperspace).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ST ships can fire at other ships when at warp. SW cannot. The Question is, can the Interdictor's Gravity Well generators prevent warp travel? If so, then any pitched battle is going to be a massicre. The ST ships would be unable to warp out, and the ISD's are capable of keeping up with a hot-rodded smugglers freighter. TNG "Booby Trap" suggests so.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 12 2004, 11:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 12 2004, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->To make this anywhere near a fair argument, we need to expand it: The entire Star Wars universe vs The Entire Star Trek universe. Lets assume that the rebellion and the imperials have put aside their differences and joined forces against the Star Trekkies, and all the Trek races have banded together to fight the Star Wars people.
That conversion/discussion would be more interesting because, hey, you can involve proper tactics, all the races, hand to hand fighting ability, and planetry bombardment and invasion.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->This depends, do you include all the aliens of the week, gods and demi-gods that pop up regularly in ST?
If so, SW is defeated by act of omnipotent being.
If not, the best tactic would be to use the strategic speed advantage given by hyperspace to hit the enemies infrastructure in a series of hit and run raids, denying the enemy the ability to concentrate their forces or face a lack of war material. When the enemy breaks up his forces, then destroy the enemy in detail, focusing your strength on the scattered ships.
Then, let the SW invasions begin. Use the massive advantage of combined arms to over whelm your opponents with armour, infantry, artillery and close air support. If the defenders are proving difficult to shift, then the Imperials will be able to use chemical and biological weapons to aid the stormtroopers in clearing the forts and caves. That is unless you want to hit them with a TL strike.
If the survivors get restless, then a quick demonstration of the Imperial capability and willingness to slag a world should cause the open rebelion to quieten down alot. This, combined with a propaganda onslaught, would hopefully keep the captured worlds in line.
All scouting to be done by probe droids and hyperspace capable fighters.
Wouldn't it be funny if we had important things to talk about?
Anyway, as I flip through the Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual, I can easily see that the Enterprise is dead.
The main reason the Enterprise will lose is because they will lose almost their entire crew in the first attack. Think about it, anyone in a red shirt is GONE right away.
Since there is an abundance of borg cubes, they would definately capture an imperial ship sooner or later. Boarding borg are far more powerful than they seem. They would *eventually* adapt to the stormtroopers blasters, which means they'd take over a decent part of the ship (a borg cube holds thousands of drones, and they have holding beam technology, which transports many borg all over the ship) before the imperials learnt to use fletchet weapons to fight them. Many borg also have energy weapons built into their arms, and of course, they have that sheer "We can't be stopped just give up" terror about them. They would capture a ship, and then the Trekkies would have access to hyperdrive engines and gravity well generators too.
The federation would most likely go around the outer-rim planets, trying to convince the people to join them against the imperial/rebelion forces. Since a lot (if not all, remember, the borg have THOUSANDS of ships and billions and billions of drones) of the fleet would be engaging the borg in various fights (since the borg don't use shields, they simply regenerate the damage that's been done, that'd be one hell of a fight to watch because it'd be like, 3-4 cubes per ISD).
Klingons and cardassions etc would be used as shocktroops for ground based assaults on planets. Although i'm not too sure whether the star trek universe goes into a lot of detail on ground assault-based-vehicles (so i won't pretend to know about them), but i'd imagine there must be *some* form of tank or something.
I don't know about cloaking technology. I don't know if the star wars people would have anything at this stage to detect cloaked ships (if they couldn't Shinzon's ship from Nemesis would be a great, great asset. Cloaked, shielded, and able to fire, and a pretty damn large phaser battery).
I'm trying to stay clear of any of the stranger species. Species 8472, for example, is pretty much unharmed by any energy based weapons (three of their ships took out a whole fleet of Borg for christ's sake, not one of them got hurt), they can survive in space, and once loose on a ship.... well, goodbye ship. Alien, skulk and predator rolled into one with a seriously fast regeneration cycle and ability to kill people by scratching them. But i won't use them, because they're not really a huge part of the Star Trek universe (a few episodes of voyager). Oh, and the dominion fleet. That was huge.
Oh, and when you're counter-acting each and every one of my posts with cool, calm logic, please don't make me look like such an idiot this time <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
*EDIT*
I'm going to regret disagreeing with you, but i'm sure i remember the Defiant being a scout ship designed for the delta quadrant, hence the romulans letting the Federation use a cloaking device, since it was for Exploration and self defence (while it was exploring that is) only, not attack or excort.
Oh, and in terms of weak spots, that might be a problem. The two lumps on top of the bridge of an ISD are the shield generators; a skilled X-Wing pilot can take out an ISD by themself. Perhaps not in the dogma, but in the game. Incidentally, the hangar bay is also marked as a weak spot, but it's obviously not nearly as critical as destroying the shield generators.
<!--QuoteBegin-medhead+ --></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (medhead @ )</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now try putting a ship from Star Wars into Star Trek. Doesn't work. Why? Because they're not compatible. The universe is definitely in question, regardless of what you claim otherwise. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
there are SIMILARITIES to the universes of star trek and star wars..
like, in BOTH of those universes, there is air in space to carry sound!!!
ie: in space, lasers go PEOWPEOW!!! instead of being inaudible.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Since there is an abundance of borg cubes, they would definately capture an imperial ship sooner or later. Boarding borg are far more powerful than they seem. They would *eventually* adapt to the stormtroopers blasters,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Time to break out the Golan Arms FC1 flechette lanchers, and get a load of Nogri marines. The Drones don't handle KE at all well. And I'm sure a few E-WEBs will make mincemeat of the drones. Their adaptation is not limitless, and E-Webs are huge.<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Many borg also have energy weapons built into their arms,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yet they never <i>use</i> them...
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and of course, they have that sheer "We can't be stopped just give up" terror about them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Species 8472 was able to take them apart in close combat easily. Nogri from SW should be able to do as good a job of it.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->They would capture a ship, and then the Trekkies would have access to hyperdrive engines and gravity well generators too.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->That wouldn't be all that likely, since SW doesn't have its technical experts onboard its ships, and reverse engineering something from another culture entirely isn't that easy. It would be like giving a tribesman a car to attempt to build.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The federation would most likely go around the outer-rim planets, trying to convince the people to join them against the imperial/rebelion forces.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->I thought you said everyone in each galaxy was allied? And anyway, while your sending ships around the Outer Rim, your outlying colonies are under attack, your supply lines raided. I don't think your ships would get far before being called back.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Since a lot (if not all, remember, the borg have THOUSANDS of ships and billions and billions of drones) of the fleet would be engaging the borg in various fights (since the borg don't use shields, they simply regenerate the damage that's been done, that'd be one hell of a fight to watch because it'd be like, 3-4 cubes per ISD).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Hey, the empire has 25000 ISD's. Thats thousands. Add in the Rebelion's Caalamari crusiers and the larger strategic fleets and the local defence forces and you're outnumbered. and outgunned.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Klingons and cardassions etc would be used as shocktroops for ground based assaults on planets.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Klingons? The guys whos idea of an attack is a massed infantry charge with pointy sticks? They get introduced to the lesson "Never charge into HMG's". As for the Cardassians, they aren't a major player after the Jem'Hadar destroyed their homeworld.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Although i'm not too sure whether the star trek universe goes into a lot of detail on ground assault-based-vehicles (so i won't pretend to know about them), but i'd imagine there must be *some* form of tank or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Ground vehcals seen=1
A buggy with a rear facing phaser.
Tanks metioned=once.
ST=losers on the defensive. No chance on the offensive (Planetary shields make landing a little difficult)
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't know about cloaking technology. I don't know if the star wars people would have anything at this stage to detect cloaked ships (if they couldn't Shinzon's ship from Nemesis would be a great, great asset. Cloaked, shielded, and able to fire, and a pretty damn large phaser battery).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Crystalline Gravtrap sensors can detect cloaked vessels. ISD's probably don't have it as standard though (TESB, Captain Needa states "No ship that small has a cloaking device" about the Millenium Falcon.) Star Wars cloaks are double blind (I can't see you, you can't see me) but sheilds and weapons can be used.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm trying to stay clear of any of the stranger species. Species 8472, for example, is pretty much unharmed by any energy based weapons (three of their ships took out a whole fleet of Borg for christ's sake, not one of them got hurt), they can survive in space, and once loose on a ship.... well, goodbye ship. Alien, skulk and predator rolled into one with a seriously fast regeneration cycle and ability to kill people by scratching them. But i won't use them, because they're not really a huge part of the Star Trek universe (a few episodes of voyager).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Species 8472 are quite nasty. its an avoid if possible, until we can devote sufficient assets to destroy.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Oh, and the dominion fleet. That was huge.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->The plan is to hit and run their supply depots, split up the fleet to make them defend, and then destruction by detail time.
Also, the relative slowness of warp compaired to hyperdrive and the size of the SW galaxy allows Star Wars a strong resource base (interesting fact, the material for the DS 2 was transported by one shipping company and it still remained covert until the project was revealed to use as a trap) which is nearly invunerable to attack, while being able to hit Star Trek targets almost at will.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Oh, and when you're counter-acting each and every one of my posts with cool, calm logic, please don't make me look like such an idiot this time <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->The truth is I spend <i>far</i> too much time on a Star Wars vs Star Trek BBS <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo--> I came for the fan fiction, and stayed for the whole package. It also helps that I'm using a canon database for both Star Wars and Star Trek, and the calculations from the same site. I know I've posted a link at least once.
Hyperdrive = millions of c
<!--QuoteBegin-SoulSkorpion+Mar 13 2004, 01:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Mar 13 2004, 01:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Oh, and in terms of weak spots, that might be a problem. The two lumps on top of the bridge of an ISD are the shield generators; a skilled X-Wing pilot can take out an ISD by themself. Perhaps not in the dogma, but in the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Its a game, so its not as high on the level of canonicity, due to game balance. Also, what use is a shield generator that doesn't cover itself?
And the 'sheild generators' have a very similar appearance to the radomes on modern ships.
<!--QuoteBegin-SoulSkorpion+Mar 13 2004, 01:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Mar 13 2004, 01:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Incidentally, the hangar bay is also marked as a weak spot, but it's obviously not nearly as critical as destroying the shield generators.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its a big piece cut out of the armour. Of course its a weakspot. But the shields are strong enough to shrug off all but an extremely large ST fleet attack
The Old Republic Acclamator troop transport can dissipate 70 trillion GW peak sheild loading.
If anyone else joins in with this, leave the Q out of it. Not only are they completely impossible to defeat by anything (other than another Q, but they don't fight any more because that wipes out universes), they would probably just sit back and watch since they've seen it all before anyway.
About the Borg not being able to simply take technology and replicate it immediately.... i don't quite follow you on that one. That's pretty much all they do. They nick technology off other races, take the best bits, and add it to an already formidable arsenal. They've got pretty damn good at it over the centuries.
Also, something i forgot about, the Borg have transwarp. If the borg are now working with the Federation, who have research in what is practically stopping time, and other races who can make ships and probably stations invisible to all conventional scanners, and even the eye, that is gonna be one hell of a transportation system. I know Hyperspace is fast, but Transwarp is pretty much instant.
The borg do use the energy weapons (they have done in a few spinoff things etc), they just don't do it often because quite frankly, they have no need. Why waste energy? Ok, so you lose, what, 4 of your people to take over a ship and it's crew? And those four people can be taken apart and their parts reused anyway.
Drawing from games of the Star Trek universe, the Federation have actually invented a single seat fighter craft, and carrier ships for them. Since they know about the fighter cover which is always present in Star Wars, they'd almost definately mass produce these craft. Because pretty much every single ship in star trek is nicely shielded, one of these fighters is at least a match for any star wars fighter. And i remember an episode of Voyager once, where voyager encountered this race which had millions and millions of fighters that swarmed to attack (i think the episode was the swarm, or the hoard, or some stupid name like that). What i'm trying to say here is, Star Trek has pretty decent fighter cover too.
I'm currently stuck as to what would be a direct match for an ISD, yet alone a Super SD. 3 Borg Cubes, 2 excelsier (can't spell that, it's the new enterprise's model anyway) class starships and a few romulan warbirds would probably be able to take one down. And i'm not sure, but i think Star Trek weaponary is generally more accurate. For instance, an entire fleet of Star Trek vessels can concentrate fire on the exact same spot, whereas the Star Wars universe just seems to hurl blaster bolts at things until they stop working any more. While that's a pretty good tactic considering the firepower of Star Wars ships, it does mean that a few good manouvers would mean that a small fleet of Star Trek vessels would find it fairly easy to knock out the shield generators on a Star Destroyer (7 ships, including 3 borg cubes which have pretty damn powerful weapons, all focusing fire on the shield generator, would knock it out pretty quickly).
Again, drawing from the games, there's a weapon called "chain reaction pulsar", which basically is a big ball that bounces between enemy ships, damaging and drawing energy from each one until it has a lot of power and explodes. About 10 ships firing them into a crowd of fighters would decimate all of them. But that's just from a game, i have no idea if it's part of the universe as a whole.
They would lose a lot of outlying planets, it's true. But the borg have countless hundreds of planets, and seemingly endless resources, at their disposal. A few planets lost here and there would only increase their determination to win the war, and would probably grant them some special powers in what they'll use (the federation does not want to mess around with temporal distorsion, for example, but in circumstances such as these, they may give people the right to use it to end the war). Also, a star trek planetary bombardment can be just as deadly as a star wars one.
As an interesting side note, there was a mod made for "Star Trek: Armada" called "Star Trek vs. Star Wars", and it's almost impossible to win as the star trek side because of sheer weight of numbers. Any one star trek ship is more than a match for any one star wars ship (in this game, apart from ISD and Super ISDs), yet the star wars side seemed able to produce 4 X as many ships. But i don't think that'd count much in this debate thing, because the borg alone must have near unlimited resources and countless shipyards.
The only truly unsettling thing about this whole thing is the Force... there's no direct comparison in Star Trek other than the Q really, and while in the time period being discussed there's like, 2 Jedi and one of them is nearly dead and the other isn't fully trained, i'd have to ask people not to use any "Will o' the force" things.
Hyperdrive = millions of c <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I meant sublight engines. You can't really fight in hyperspace. Someone earlier mentioned that impulse engines move the Enterprise at a significant fraction of the speed of light even in combat. I was just wondering how fast a Star Destroyer can go without engaging the hyperdrive (since a hyperdrive is really more of what you'd call a "jump drive" than a booster. Ie, it sends you to a specific destination in a short amount of time, rather than simply making your ship go really fast thus enabling you to go where you point your ship in a short amount of time).
Of course, if the Enterprise can fight while going at warp, it changes everything.
...
Another point: it's not just speed that determines how easy it is to hit a target. It's also the size of what you're trying to hit, and the agility. The Enterprise is quite a bit bigger than an X-Wing, and (I'd imagine) quite a bit less agile. An X-Wing on approach to a Star Destroyer can dodge turbolasers relatively easily by changing direction. I can't imagine the Enterprise making a quick 50 degree turn, keeping nearly all of its velocity, and none of the turbolasers clipping it (even if the lasers don't hit the part of the ship they were originally being aimed at).
...
I don't know if it's been dealt with, but someone mentioned that from certain angles of approach an ISD's lasers don't reach. That's true, but an ISD's defenses aren't only its lasers. Star Destroyers carry something like an order of magnitude more starfighters than an aircraft carrier has fighters.
...
(gee, this is a long post <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->).
I've just remembered that when I was in primary school I used to play a game with a friend of mine (who's a Star Trek fan) called a "mind war", where we'd pit starships and such against each other (in our heads, hence the name). If I remember correctly, what fared best against Star Trek technology was the stuff from Wing Commander. Now, the TCS Concordia vs a Star Destroyer would be an interesting match <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If anyone else joins in with this, leave the Q out of it. Not only are they completely impossible to defeat by anything (other than another Q, but they don't fight any more because that wipes out universes), they would probably just sit back and watch since they've seen it all before anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->True.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->About the Borg not being able to simply take technology and replicate it immediately.... i don't quite follow you on that one. That's pretty much all they do. They nick technology off other races, take the best bits, and add it to an already formidable arsenal. They've got pretty damn good at it over the centuries. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That is true, but the big problems with repliciating the technology are the resources required the completely different technology base and actually getting the tech in the first place.
The Borg aren't likely to be able to do anything except copy directly unless they know the basic principles behind it. And the Empire is not going to make it easy for them to capture anyone who knows how it works.
They're going to need to set up a totally new industry to extract, process and then create the weapons. That will not happen overnight.
And finally, if the Borg do manage to board and start assimalating, the crew would be ordered to abandon ship and the captain would set up a self destruct, probably set up on a 'Dead man switch' system, where if he releases the switch, the self destruct blows, destroying the ship and rendering it an unintellegable debris field.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, something i forgot about, the Borg have transwarp. If the borg are now working with the Federation, who have research in what is practically stopping time, and other races who can make ships and probably stations invisible to all conventional scanners, and even the eye, that is gonna be one hell of a transportation system. I know Hyperspace is fast, but Transwarp is pretty much instant.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Hyperspace varies from 1.2 million c to 50 million c depending on hyperdrive rating and navagational hazards.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The borg do use the energy weapons (they have done in a few spinoff things etc), they just don't do it often because quite frankly, they have no need. Why waste energy? Ok, so you lose, what, 4 of your people to take over a ship and it's crew? And those four people can be taken apart and their parts reused anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->That would change when E-WEBs and flechette launchers start getting used. Unfortunatly for the Borg, the disrupters are unlikely to do much damage to the stormies. The performance of all other star trek small arms against packing crates has been abysmal
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Drawing from games of the Star Trek universe, the Federation have actually invented a single seat fighter craft, and carrier ships for them. Since they know about the fighter cover which is always present in Star Wars, they'd almost definately mass produce these craft. Because pretty much every single ship in star trek is nicely shielded, one of these fighters is at least a match for any star wars fighter. And i remember an episode of Voyager once, where voyager encountered this race which had millions and millions of fighters that swarmed to attack (i think the episode was the swarm, or the hoard, or some stupid name like that). What i'm trying to say here is, Star Trek has pretty decent fighter cover too.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yet in the canon universe they use barely any fighters. I wonder why?
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm currently stuck as to what would be a direct match for an ISD, yet alone a Super SD. 3 Borg Cubes, 2 excelsier (can't spell that, it's the new enterprise's model anyway) class starships and a few romulan warbirds would probably be able to take one down.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->The problem is actually getting a single ISD on its own, as the plan is to attack lightly defended targets as a group, having used a set of probe droids or a reconnasance version of the TIE fighter.
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And i'm not sure, but i think Star Trek weaponary is generally more accurate. For instance, an entire fleet of Star Trek vessels can concentrate fire on the exact same spot, whereas the Star Wars universe just seems to hurl blaster bolts at things until they stop working any more.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->If you're going to wait until spitting distance to engage, then yes, that would be true. They do a fairly good job at hurling turbolaser bolts at ships barely in visual range. <!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->While that's a pretty good tactic considering the firepower of Star Wars ships, it does mean that a few good manouvers would mean that a small fleet of Star Trek vessels would find it fairly easy to knock out the shield generators on a Star Destroyer (7 ships, including 3 borg cubes which have pretty damn powerful weapons, all focusing fire on the shield generator, would knock it out pretty quickly).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Some numbers for the weapons power output? After all the old republic Acclamitor transports have a peak disipation rate of 70 trillion GW. For comparison, the Galaxy has a peak dissipation rate of 3300 GW
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Again, drawing from the games, there's a weapon called "chain reaction pulsar", which basically is a big ball that bounces between enemy ships, damaging and drawing energy from each one until it has a lot of power and explodes. About 10 ships firing them into a crowd of fighters would decimate all of them. But that's just from a game, i have no idea if it's part of the universe as a whole.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->the licence owners say it isn't
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->They would lose a lot of outlying planets, it's true. But the borg have countless hundreds of planets, and seemingly endless resources, at their disposal.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yet after about a dozen attacks they were looking at defeat...
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A few planets lost here and there would only increase their determination to win the war, and would probably grant them some special powers in what they'll use (the federation does not want to mess around with temporal distorsion, for example, but in circumstances such as these, they may give people the right to use it to end the war). Also, a star trek planetary bombardment can be just as deadly as a star wars one.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Strange that in 'The Die is Cast' the fleets didn't turn the world into a molten glowing ball...
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As an interesting side note, there was a mod made for "Star Trek: Armada" called "Star Trek vs. Star Wars", and it's almost impossible to win as the star trek side because of sheer weight of numbers. Any one star trek ship is more than a match for any one star wars ship (in this game, apart from ISD and Super ISDs), yet the star wars side seemed able to produce 4 X as many ships. But i don't think that'd count much in this debate thing, because the borg alone must have near unlimited resources and countless shipyards.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Its an unoffcial mod...
<!--QuoteBegin-X_Stickman+Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (X_Stickman @ Mar 13 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The only truly unsettling thing about this whole thing is the Force... there's no direct comparison in Star Trek other than the Q really, and while in the time period being discussed there's like, 2 Jedi and one of them is nearly dead and the other isn't fully trained, i'd have to ask people not to use any "Will o' the force" things.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, the lack of trained force sensitives did rule that out as one of the effecive weapons.
And as a scale note, the Empire directly controls a million systems. There are over four hundred billion stars, and 20 million intellegent species spread across 12 million planets. Millions of ships supply Coruscant with the nessicary food to feep the city-planet fed daily.
60% of the 900km DS2 was built in <i>5 months</i> All the raw materials were shipped in by one private freight company.
The Trade Federation was able to blockade Naboo with enough 2 mile wide ships to have each evenly spaced at 10 miles apart across the whole planet. Thousands of ships. And this was dismissed as trivial by a character.
The 25000 ISD's were built in 20 years, and are not considered particually big vessels by their standards. Invincible class dreadnaughts, 2 km long, were patrolling the stars generations before the first ISD's. Also, there are countless smaller vessels which have been patrolling for millenia.
<!--QuoteBegin-SoulSkorpion+Mar 13 2004, 02:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Mar 13 2004, 02:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've just remembered that when I was in primary school I used to play a game with a friend of mine (who's a Star Trek fan) called a "mind war", where we'd pit starships and such against each other (in our heads, hence the name). If I remember correctly, what fared best against Star Trek technology was the stuff from Wing Commander. Now, the TCS Concordia vs a Star Destroyer would be an interesting match <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->I don't know enough about Wing Commander to debate it.
Time for me to crash, 03:15 and all.
Tie Fighters? No shields at all (if i remember rightly),
And in answer to a previous post: Death Star Vs Borg Cube? Borg, no problem <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
then again if all the main characters died that would kinda end the show lol/...
TIE fighters and bombers do not have shields but TIE Advanced fighters, assault boats, and gunboats do.
Doesnt the borg need to be hit or something first so they can adapt?
What if they get hit by the huge mega cannon first and die so they cant adapt the shields on their cube?
anyways this debate could go on forever. so yea lets compromise
Star destoryer would win some and enterprise would win some. and in others they would tie. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
to all you Vader haters out there
we'll blow your planet up
...
We got death star, we got death star
We got death star, we got death star...
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Death Star -> earth, BEWM! Bye-bye federation.
As to Enterprise vs. ISD... um. The Star destroyer could just have all of its fighters and bombers RAM the enterprise. And it would die.
Not to mention, turbolasers can reach thousands of klicks. Especially the heavy ones. I have yet to see the Enterprise engage in combat from so much as more than 100 km. *edit* that's generous; most of the time star trek ships fight from a distance where you could probably throw a brick from the bridge of one ship and hit the other one.
USS Enterprise vs Death Star
<a href='http://www.grudge-match.com/History/ds-enterprise.shtml' target='_blank'>http://www.grudge-match.com/History/ds-enterprise.shtml</a>
Death Star wins
Starfleet sercurity ensigns vs Imperial Storm troopers
<a href='http://www.grudge-match.com/History/ensign-stormtrooper.shtml' target='_blank'>http://www.grudge-match.com/History/ensign...rmtrooper.shtml</a>
Storm troopers win
Han Solo vs Capt. Kirk in a bar fight
<a href='http://www.grudge-match.com/History/ensign-stormtrooper.shtml' target='_blank'>http://www.grudge-match.com/History/ensign...rmtrooper.shtml</a>
Han Solo wins
Chewbacca vs Worf
<a href='http://www.grudge-match.com/History/chew-worf.shtml' target='_blank'>http://www.grudge-match.com/History/chew-worf.shtml</a>
Chewbacca wins
lol 7 of 9 beat princess leia by 1.2%
lol I jsut made an offical request on the site for our enterprise vs star destroyer debate <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
ludicrous speed.
anyway, who would win would depend on who was writing the story...
if we were staying within the Trek universe and the question was, what would win, a borg cube or the enterprise -- we'd all say the borg cube, it's obviously much more powerful... and I'm no trekkie, but have there not been episodes where the enterprise has taken one down or outsmarted one, etc etc? if not, my metaphor still stands... another example: x-wing vs. death star... which wins? laughable question posed like that, but we all saw the movie...
most fiction writers would have the enterprise win, because it's the good guy and it's the underdog and it'd be downright more interesting to read/see/whatever. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
besides, they'll both just be wiped out when the vogons decide they're fighting on the location of the newest planned hyperspace bypass...
*runs away from the nurdfite before the whining and the slapping recommences* <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
aw, cmon, it was the death star vs. a rebel fleet/base and a few squadrons of fighters, it wasn't just one x-wing <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The overconfident Imperial high command didn't launch the DS 1's fighter complement.
So i hand my side over to someone who knows stuff on the basis that i know nothing.
**EDIT**
And Red Dwarf could take on Star Wars and Star Trek COMBINED because they have the luck virus. Lister could take it, throw a rock out of the window and it'd bounce off the critical points of ALL the ships and blow them all up.
*edit* and you know what Star Wars has that Star Trek doesn't? Totally BADASS LASERS that blow up planets!
Excellent!
Yes - my two Swedish buddies never, <i>ever</i> confuse "your" with "you're."
I can see The USS Enterprise and the Imperial Class One Star Destroyer getting both pwned by the NS Dreadnaught class ship Nemisis 0.
ooh watch out for those evil LOCK rays!
i can see him coming out of hyper space!
*Climbes in excape pod and slams door shut
As for my opinion, imagine the following scene:
(Exchange Cpt. Kirk by Picard if you wish; hating Shatner with a burning passion, I'll use him for this example.)
Cpt.Kirk standing on the bridge; the main screen shows the Imperial Star Destroyer.
Some ensign: "Target acquired, sir."
*Slowly growing deep hum.*
Cpt.Kirk: "Good. Phaser banks and torpedoes - fi - *choke* *gurgle*"
*Kirk is being lifted off the ground, clutching his neck.*
Cpt.Kirk: *Further gurgling until his head sags to the side.*
*The limp body sags to the floor.*
Spock: "Fascinating."