Isd Vs Uss ? :d
Shockeh
If a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it... Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
If a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it... Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Sorry, it was the Bear vs Lion thread...</div> Right, you all knew it was coming....
In the Red Corner, representing the United Federation of Planets....
Thhheeeeeeeee ENNNNNNNTERPRISE--A!
<img src='http://wso.williams.edu/~rfoxwell/starwars/pagestuff/Enterprise.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
And in the Blue Corner, the most fearsome design ever for planetary bombardment... we have....
Thhhheeeeeeee IMP-PERIALLLLLLL STARRR DESTROY-ER-A!
<img src='http://www.starwars.jp/machine/image/imperial_sd.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> Sorry, sorry, I know I shouldn't have.... *chuckle*
By the way, I know a lot of 'science geek' will be used here, and will try & prove the ISD should get slain. I don't care. Eat TIE lovin'.
- Shockwave
In the Red Corner, representing the United Federation of Planets....
Thhheeeeeeeee ENNNNNNNTERPRISE--A!
<img src='http://wso.williams.edu/~rfoxwell/starwars/pagestuff/Enterprise.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
And in the Blue Corner, the most fearsome design ever for planetary bombardment... we have....
Thhhheeeeeeee IMP-PERIALLLLLLL STARRR DESTROY-ER-A!
<img src='http://www.starwars.jp/machine/image/imperial_sd.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> Sorry, sorry, I know I shouldn't have.... *chuckle*
By the way, I know a lot of 'science geek' will be used here, and will try & prove the ISD should get slain. I don't care. Eat TIE lovin'.
- Shockwave
Comments
Imperitor Class Stardestoyer hits Ent-A with 200GT turbolaser. Boom. (Source: Attack of the Clones: Incredable Cross-Sections)
or
TIE/B wing lanches proton torpedoes. Boom.
Now trying to capture the Ent-A, thats going to be difficult. Its a bit too fragile.
Don't believe me?
See: <a href='http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/index.html' target='_blank'>Stardestroyer.net</a> for relevent information.
lmao
spok (spoc?) (tony?) or Yoda
you just made us look a whole lot less geekier <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I, erm, didn't mean Enterprise-A. I meant how announcer's speak, with the Rrrrroolllliiinggg-a of the tongue, gettit? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
read above
I remember that episode, the Enterprise D would have no trouble dealing with the ISD.
Oh. Please.
First, Turbolasers are not LASERs. Observed effects and all.
Secondly, that comment was about a ship with inferior power generation capabilities and by that logic, the unsheilded Enterprise could take a superlaser hit, like oh, the one that dumped over 5E16 megatons Alderaan.
And if so why the worry in Episode 32 "Loud as a Whisper?
<!--QuoteBegin-Loud as a Whisper+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Loud as a Whisper)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->WORF: I'm reading laser activity in the Solari Solar System!
RIKER: How concentrated is the activity?
WORF: It is localized -- and very intense.
RIKER: So much for the cease-fire.
PICARD: Open hailing frequencies.
WORF: I can establish voice only.
PICARD: This is Captain Jean-Luc Picard, commander of the Federation starship USS Enterprise. If you continue to violate the rules by breaking the cease-fire, I will abort this mission.
FIRST LEADER: You have no jurisdiction here, Picard. Where is Riva?
PICARD: Riva is in charge of the summit. I command the ship that brings him. I will not endanger my ship under any circumstance<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And why is Picard worried here.<!--QuoteBegin-TNG Season 4+ Ep# 76: "Suddenly Human" --></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TNG Season 4 @ Ep# 76: "Suddenly Human" )</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->DATA: Talarian warships are limited to neutral particle weapons, high-energy X-ray lasers and merculite rockets. No match for the Enterprise, Captain.
PICARD: The last thing I want is to be forced into destroying one of their ships. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And Finally on this point, you're forgetting about the ion cannons, TIE/B's, tractoring asteroids and if all else fails ramming.
Really, the gunnery problem is the opposite way around. The dense hull armour will be able to withstand phasers chain reaction effects (Not that they have the power to penetrate the shields and there is no frequency dependance, so no sneaking past the shields that way), and your 64mT maximum photon torpedoes will barely scratch the sheilds. Perhaps <b>you'd</b> like to remember that your guns are harmless before engaging in combat? And your Treknobabble is useless against the overwhelming firepower advantage.
Anyway, why are we starting a scree of "something vs something" threads when we should be bumping <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=65069' target='_blank'>Marik's thingummy thread</a>?
[edit]<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And why is Picard worried here.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->DATA: Talarian warships are limited to neutral particle weapons, high-energy X-ray lasers and merculite rockets. No match for the Enterprise, Captain.
PICARD: The last thing I want is to be forced into destroying one of their ships.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you've missed the point. The first d00d says they're "no match for the Enterprise". That means that they'll get the snot kicked out of them efforlessly. And what makes you think that Picard is the least bit worried about them in his reply? He's basically saying "I'd rather not butcher them mercilessly, which is what's going to happen if we fight them."
Well, they do say that Star Trek fans lack communication skills <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->[/edit]
And to all of you who think the Enterprise would win, I really think you should check out <a href='http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/index.html' target='_blank'>this website</a> to find out why that is not the case.
If you want some more reading material about Star Wars, <a href='http://www.theforce.net/swtc/' target='_blank'>try the Star Wars Technical Commentaries</a>.
PICARD: The last thing I want is to be forced into destroying one of their ships.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you've missed the point. The first d00d says they're "no match for the Enterprise". That means that they'll get the snot kicked out of them efforlessly. And what makes you think that Picard is the least bit worried about them in his reply? He's basically saying "I'd rather not butcher them mercilessly, which is what's going to happen if we fight them." <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If LASERs are no trouble, then why are they so worried? The X-ray LASERS are a part of their armament and must be reasonably effective, otherwise why install the LASERs? They've got the particle cannons and missles, surely more of those would be better than the X LASERs if the LASERs are so useless?
Do you see my point?
I mean, who was expecting it to pull out an axe?
I mean, who was expecting it to pull out an axe? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nice. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Take that Enterprise! The power of the giant axe will crush you! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
PICARD: The last thing I want is to be forced into destroying one of their ships.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you've missed the point. The first d00d says they're "no match for the Enterprise". That means that they'll get the snot kicked out of them efforlessly. And what makes you think that Picard is the least bit worried about them in his reply? He's basically saying "I'd rather not butcher them mercilessly, which is what's going to happen if we fight them." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If LASERs are no trouble, then why are they so worried? The X-ray LASERS are a part of their armament and must be reasonably effective, otherwise why install the LASERs? They've got the particle cannons and missles, surely more of those would be better than the X LASERs if the LASERs are so useless?
Do you see my point? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh... no. I don't.
I realised I wasn't completely clear when I said "they'll get the snot kicked out of them", and was going to edit before my connection crapped out. I don't understand how you could get the impression that Data and Picard are the least bit worried about the enemy ships. He's not worried in the slightest. Data says "if we fight them, we'll kick the crap out of them." Picard says "damn, that'll get excrement all over our boots". How does that make him worried about the enemy's power?
yep,
Class 1 Imperial Star Destroyer
60 turbolasers batteries
60 ion cannon batterys
10 tractor beamports
28 fighter bays
Three TIE Starfighter squadrons
Two TIE Interceptor squadrons
One TIE Bomber squadron
12 Landing Barges
20 AT-AT Walkers
30 AT-ST Walkers
Eight Lambda-class Imperial Shuttles
15 Stormtrooper Transports
5 Assault Gunboats
2 shield generators
Crew of 37,085
------------------------------
Enterprise
Has a crew of 2,700
32 Phaser banks
8 Point defense turrets
16 Torpedo banks
But not all phaer banks and torpedo launchers are exposed at one time
Several small tranpsort/maintnece class ships
Only 1 shield system.
Imperial navy has more guns, bigger ships, and fighter support cover as well as a complement of crap loads of supportships. They also have a large ground assault troop complement and can bring in lots of ground pounding armour, unlike the star trek starfleets crappy little away teams with possbile space bombardment support.
And this still doesn't address the other quote about <i>LASER armed ships being a threat!</i>. And if these ships are a threat, then a ship which can output alot more energy will be a significantly greater threat.
And I've just found this little beauty <img src='http://www.server4.uploadit.org/files2/141203-icon_twisted.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<!--QuoteBegin-"TNG Season 1+ Ep# 7: 'The Last Outpost'"--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ("TNG Season 1 @ Ep# 7: 'The Last Outpost'")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->WORF: They are firing on us!
PICARD: Damage report!
TASHA: Shields holding!
DATA: Mostly electromagnetic, sir. Fusion generator and batteries down by (thirty percent)
GEORDI: Our impulse engines are surging!
WORF: They're firing again.
TASHA: Deflector shield power weakening, Captain<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mostly EM. Now what is a LASER? Light Amplification by the Stimulated Emmision of Radiation. EM radiation <img src='http://www.server4.uploadit.org/files2/141203-icon_twisted.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
All this doesn't change the fact that even making the <a href='http://www.stardestroyer.net/tlc/Nature/index.html' target='_blank'>"lasers"</a> on the ISD useless against the Enterprise, the outcome is still likely to be the same. Ion cannons and fighter scale torpedoes will be able to overcome the shields. A final alternative is ramming. The ISD could lock tractors onto the Enterprise and ram it. Galaxy-class ships don't handle being rammed well.
<!--QuoteBegin-"TNG+ season 5, episode 118 'Cause and Effect'"--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ("TNG @ season 5, episode 118 'Cause and Effect'")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(after the Bozeman lightly strikes the ship's starboard warp nacelle, at a relative speed of perhaps 100-200 m/s but at a glancing angle which causes very little energy conversion or momentum shift)
RIKER: Damage report!
BEVERLY: Casualty reports coming in from all over the ship...
DATA: The starboard nacelle has sustained a direct impact. We are venting drive plasma.
GEORDI: Initiating emergency core shutdown.
...
DATA: The core shutdown was unsuccessful. We are losing antimatter containment.
GEORDI: We gotta eject the engine core!
DATA: The ejection systems are off-line. A core breach is imminent...
PICARD: All hands abandon ship. Repeat, all hands abandon --
(the Enterprise explodes)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
EDIT: See DS9, 'The Jem'Hadar' for an example of a Galaxy being rammed. Its is hit by a Jem'Hadar fighter and explodes due to the damage caused. <a href='http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Shields/Impact-examples.html' target='_blank'> Found here</a>
Lets just keep it to the matter in hand. Its 1 ISD v 1 Galaxy class ship. Not the Imperial Navy versus Starfleet.
I mean, who was expecting it to pull out an axe? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
hahahah way to break the mood! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
and what does the Enterprise have? Im not a big star trek buff, but I think it has like one or two transport shuttles, a few torpedo tubes, a minimal crew that is supposed to be peaceful in nature, and a vulcan
Spock: I will subdue this man in black with my vulcan nerve pinch
Darth Vader: *Does the force grip hand motion* Pwned
Nerve pinch that darth <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Besides hardly anything in the Star Wars universe obeys the laws of physics so nothing would work, at least star trek makes a half arsed attempt to be believable.
(1)Shields must be down to transport. Less protection=not good, right?
(2)Dense armour. They'll find it hard to impossible to scan through that if they have trouble with <i>naturally occuring levels of heavy metals</i>
<!--QuoteBegin-TNG Season 4+ Ep# 82: "Future Imperfect"--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TNG Season 4 @ Ep# 82: "Future Imperfect")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(hiding in tunnels)
RIKER: Their sensors should have picked us up...
ETHAN: They can't... I heard them say there's something in these rocks...
RIKER: Heavy metals?
ETHAN: Right...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-TNG Season 4+ Ep# 98: "The Mind's Eye"--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TNG Season 4 @ Ep# 98: "The Mind's Eye")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->KELL: There have been two rebel attacks on neutral freighters... one Ferengi, the other Cardassian...
WORF: Both were engaged near the Ikalian asteroid belt... that is where the rebels must be hiding...
KELL: The actinides in the asteroids provide effective protection from our sensors.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
(3)Power generation and transmittion.
An inhabitable moon has a magnetic field that is too strong to transport through, How are you going to get through the magnetic fields generated by the energy transmission in the Star Destroyer?.
<!--QuoteBegin-TNG Season 4+ Ep# 83: "Final Mission"--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TNG Season 4 @ Ep# 83: "Final Mission")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->RIKER: Any life signs?
DATA: It is impossible to determine. The magnetic flux would mask any bio-energy emanations.
RIKER: Mister Worf, will that interference affect the Transporter Beam?
WORF: Yes, Commander. An Away Team would have to take a shuttlecraft.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"Oh no, the Enterprise crew are boarding us.... meh."
Sorry, this is a Sci-fi versus. We have to allow things like FTL travel, teleporters, energy shields, insanely powerful weapons, ridiculously high energy densities, material strengths and the like to even consider the versus. Otherwise we're left with an ISD model against a computer generated Galaxy. Its called Suspension of Disbelief, and is a vital part of analysing the effects that the technology would have.
EDIT:<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Besides hardly anything in the Star Wars universe obeys the laws of physics so nothing would work, at least star trek makes a half arsed attempt to be believable.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Oh. Right. So completely ignoring Conservation of Energy/Momentum, FTL flight through space-time distortion, weapons that make mass disappear, ect is more believable than Star Wars? Just because they throw in some technobabble? They make cockups by the hundreds in basic science (Watts=POWER, Joules=Energy), their knowledge of computer secutity is laughable (They can't end processes on their own bloody computers, they allow executable code to be run by a remote user which is able to access any controls it wants), they ignore good engineering practices (Such as having manual reactor shutdown/ejection, only having active safty systems) and its still more unbelievable than Star Wars.
Oh please. Star Trek tries to hide its unreality behind a screen of pseudoscience. Photonic beings anyone? Might as well call them GHOSTS!
Evolution = Massive rapid changes in body structure? NOT IN REAL LIFE!
Viable crossbreeding between species? NOT IN THE REAL WORLD.
Star Wars doesn't try.
All the TIEs can be ignored as snubfighter sized weapons and torps won't have the power to do anything.
Althought I think the ISD has the power to destroy the Enterprise D, do you have any idea how fast full impulse is? I doubt even computer assisted targeting could hit the Enterprise. Also, the ISD's guns cannot depress down far enough for all the turbolasers and ion cannons to hit the Enterprise, were as all the Enterprise weapons can hit the ISD.
The advantage the ISD has is that hyperspace travel is faster then warp based travel. Which isn't really an advantage. The second thing is that having 2 shield generators and shields based in quadrants of the ship, allows weakened shields to be reinforced with energy from other areas of the shields, and have them repaired faster
Therefore based on this, overall I'd say the Enterprise would win.
Althought I think the ISD has the power to destroy the Enterprise D, do you have any idea how fast full impulse is? I doubt even computer assisted targeting could hit the Enterprise. Also, the ISD's guns cannot depress down far enough for all the turbolasers and ion cannons to hit the Enterprise, were as all the Enterprise weapons can hit the ISD.
The advantage the ISD has is that hyperspace travel is faster then warp based travel. Which isn't really an advantage. The second thing is that having 2 shield generators and shields based in quadrants of the ship, allows weakened shields to be reinforced with energy from other areas of the shields, and have them repaired faster
Therefore based on this, overall I'd say the Enterprise would win. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The offical ship guides from star trek books say that all photon beams and torpedos cant be exposed at the same time anyways just like the star destroyer. so whats your point.
Imperial TIE bombers and gunships can be equipped with Antip Capital ship missiles, adv. torpedos and heavy space bombs. im not talking about the little limpit bombs they used to smack around asteroids in The empire strikes back either. Im talking about 1 oe 2 could severely damage a cruiser or other heavy capital class ship.
So yes Imperial fighters would be a great threat.
And what is this you talk about impulse speed on the enterprise? Last I knew impulse speed was the speed range anywhere up from 0 movement to sub warp speed.
As far as anyone has writtian thats just the same as the sublight engines on the star destroyer.
So there would not really be any great speed advantage for either of the ships not counting warp engines and hyper drives being active.
These capital ships might move around some but they arnt going to be flying all over like in a fighter dog fight.
In the end looking in the overall picture. Look at the ship design philosphies that went into the design and construction of the ships.
many of the starfllet ships like the enterprise were made and designed to be rugged heavily armed exploration, survey, engineering, research,military ships. Kinda like the armoured military engineering multipurpose ship. A well armed one, but still a multi purpuse exploration ship.
Imperial Class star destroyers were designed for one thing. Pwning someone elses ****. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->