Bunny hopping is a flaw in the HL engine which has not been fixed by Valve because they cannot be bothered. or possibly do not know how too.
It should not exist but the odd bug in the engine allows it.
doesnt matter if someone considers it a skill or a bug or a script. It should be removed along time by Valve. Imagine if you could expliot the engine so that your character can move faster than allowed in game. This would considered an bannable expliot correct? Which is what bunny hopping is.. /shrug
hopefully when hl2 comes out they have a more realistic or at least less flawed phaysics engine.
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Dec 24 2003, 07:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Dec 24 2003, 07:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you remove bhopping you'd have to change so many factors in NS... Feasible... yes, worth it? No... Not only that but by the only way to stop skulk bhopping (capping the damn air speeds) would kill the fade and lerk and the leap attack. Personally I like bhop, because it seperates skilled players from less skilled players.
Removing bhop, IMO, is a step too far. NS needs things that seperate the nubs from the decent players. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think bhop takes much skill. I've been doing it for ages now and its not even on the concious level. Same with everybody else out there competitively. I think bhop is just silly. People rely on it and think of themselves as skilled if they know how to do it.
It was kinda cute back when only a select few knew how to do it. Now that everybody and their mother has proved they can script/3jump/do it, you can really see the hilarity of it.
If marine movement was limited due to realism, why not treat the skulks the same way. Skulks weren't bred to be bhoppers were they?
Bhop is so entrenched now that I doubt I'll see its removal. Things like aiming the gun, squad movements, getting in the head of the enemy; those are much more important.
sidenote to cri.tical: I have not played against you specifically but I have played against several others in your clan, such as cri.meking, who scripts like mad, along with the others. I've even had the pleasure watching one of your clan get banned from a server.. although I cannot recall which - for just that - script whoring.
The standpoint
Not that it matters, because ultimatly the scripters are right, removing some commands will not stop the rampant ego-bunnies, but the larger issue here is scrpiting in general; certainly I give that there are some scripts which don't affect gameplay except on a conveience level - but all the same most scripting is an unitended abuse of the system to achive an advantage that a player who refuses to ever use a script (like myself) does not have. Be it any type of script.
There is no middle path to walk here, scripting is cheating. All those who argue against this argue only for the sake of their fake skill: I will not disagree it _does_ take a bit of skill to be able to utilize scripts properly; i've seen some pretty amusing results myself; but that does not remove the factor that they grant an unintended benefiet to the player who learns their use.
Those who support scripting, seek to throw down against the lawfull world of peacefull fair fun-loving ns players - for the evildoers will stop at nothing to support their ways.
If it were up to me I'd disallow scripting but do nothing to prevent it, monitor who is doing it, then when 3.0 comes out ban all the wonids that use them from all NS servers. (anyone remember mao's similar action of telling people to speak out against him, then he locked them all up and had them killed? - to flush out the traitors that propigated anti-sentiment) Similar idea.
But what about people who have a mouse that comes with autorepeat as part of the driver? Or joysticks which do the same. Or macro programs that do that for the keyboard....
Theres no way to 'detect' or for NS to disable some of those.
So the real strategy is... if you want to disable bunny hoping... DISABLE IT!!!!
Find the part in the physics engine that makes it possible, just like you did for the marines... AND REMOVE IT.
If the aliens suddenly become too slow to use... SPEED THEM UP.
Minstrel_KnightThe truth and nothing but the truth...Join Date: 2002-11-21Member: 9562Banned
<!--QuoteBegin--cri.tical+Dec 24 2003, 11:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cri.tical @ Dec 24 2003, 11:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Of course, half of your team won't be able to participate due to age limitations. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
EDIT: I forgot to mention all those ir victories you are claiming. We all know when it was in a competitive environment, ir nearly lost to cri in CAL. You barely scraped by with a 1-1. Just because you guys like to drum up anti-cri sentiment within the community doesn't mean you can beat us in a real game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Can we keep the oh so wonderful clan drama out of a thread for once perhaps?
<!--QuoteBegin--cri.tical+Dec 24 2003, 11:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cri.tical @ Dec 24 2003, 11:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just because you guys like to drum up anti-cri sentiment within the community doesn't mean you can beat us in a real game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No kidding. You guys will outhack them 5-1.
<!--QuoteBegin--cri.tical+Dec 24 2003, 02:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cri.tical @ Dec 24 2003, 02:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Lux+Dec 24 2003, 02:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lux @ Dec 24 2003, 02:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In my experince with eR, clans that can bhop are much better then clans that cant. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yep, I'd agree. Thats why they'll fight Flayra to the death to keep it that way. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Heres my other 2 cents. You don't NEED to bhop to be good. Infact if you do then you may win games but you still are nothing in my eyes. Using the games built -in strengths, then using them effectively to win the day is much more gratifying. Skulks went from Sneaky little bastages in 1.0, to exploitingly fast flesh missles that have teeth, and 3.0 it seems to be the same. I can bhop, let me tell you, it DRAINS the atmosphere. I don't even feel like its NS when bhopping is so prevelent. Of course this is gonna be sensitive. Lotsa young kids wanna look cool so they do nothing but run around a map and tap the jump key till their finger is raw...
Skulks are SKULKS. They sneak, they use their surroundings to their advantage, and they are efficient. Seeing a brigade if hoppy little monsters makes me think easter more than NS. I'm all for bhoppings removal. NS could be played as it was meant.
(also if anyone wants to argue that bhopping isn't an exploit I can dig around and look for the article on it from Valve)
Perhaps Flayra should include a small tutorial on HOW to bunnyhop in the NS slideshow included with the install.
On a second note: Cri.tical, #cri uses a couple scripts in their configs. I know this because one of your veteran members sent me his config file. So don't be the pot calling the kettle black about bunnyhopping being unfair. You call out other clans on their use of bunnyhops, but you don't mind a little pistol scripting, heavy cvar modifications, etc. gg. and that was only the config.cfg file. God only knows what other configs get executed during the game.
As you can see from the last few posts, you bring drama upon yourself well enough for the both of us, but that has nothing to do with this.
Our first string roster would easily be able to attend such an event without worry of age limitation, funding aside, but that has nothing to do with this.
ir nearly lost to cri, cri nearly lost to the "skillless" ir, but that has nothing to do with this.
Please stay on topic and do not make this renewal of an old debate a personal attack.
<!--QuoteBegin--cri.tical+Dec 24 2003, 11:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cri.tical @ Dec 24 2003, 11:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I hope to see ir at the CPL this year. Mosis especially hopes you guys come down there. I've heard word of an unofficial tourney in the works.
Of course, half of your team won't be able to participate due to age limitations. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Critical, you are the worst example of an online gamer. You are a crass, ignorant individual who is so caught up with setting up this standard of "I am better than you" that you come with random and inappropriate personal attacks. You're the ones who make gamers the nerds. You're a social outcast who uses his PC as a great equalizer so he can talk smack and make himself feel better.
Grow up. I'm glad you're good at NS or think you are. I'm glad your clan is good. But don't bring your petty and dull insults the forum. If you have something to say, PM it to me. Nobody else cares that you need to get off on making irrelevant points. Go jerk off somewhere else and leave the NS chat to the grown ups.
If this sounds hypocritical, it isn't. I have every right to respond the several insults he's flung toward my clanmates and I. Not to mention countless others who have had the bad luck of speaking with him.
Edit: Bunny hop should stay. I don't bunny hop, but I see no reason to remove it.
Im gonna stay outt this one, this is gonna turn into OMG MAI KLAN ROX MOR THAN URS KTHX crap.
Sigh, another discussion lost to idiocy. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--cri.tical+Dec 24 2003, 11:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cri.tical @ Dec 24 2003, 11:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> EDIT: I forgot to mention all those ir victories you are claiming. We all know when it was in a competitive environment, ir nearly lost to cri in CAL. You barely scraped by with a 1-1. Just because you guys like to drum up anti-cri sentiment within the community doesn't mean you can beat us in a real game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'll forget the fact that as a result of said 1-1 CAL match, one of cri's members was banned from CAL for wallhacking. Yes, I'll just overlook this and continue on...
<!--QuoteBegin--cri.tical+Dec 24 2003, 11:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cri.tical @ Dec 24 2003, 11:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Cole+Dec 24 2003, 06:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cole @ Dec 24 2003, 06:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You can't bhop, I can(as a member of the no-skill would-be champions ir). Just because you don't implement bunny hopping into your own playstyle does not mean you should deny the rest of the world so its an "equal opportunity skulking" game. The <b>majority</b> of those who wish bunny hopping to be removed are those who can not do it, or those who don't even know what it is. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I know how to bunny hop. But I will agree with you that most of those who are "whining" to remove it can't.
I just don't see the point in it, really. I've flip flopped on the whole idea, I used to be a huge supporter of bhop. Just because a team can bhop doesn't mean they'll hold up in a high pressure situation on a LAN, either.
I hope to see ir at the CPL this year. Mosis especially hopes you guys come down there. I've heard word of an unofficial tourney in the works.
Of course, half of your team won't be able to participate due to age limitations. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
EDIT: I forgot to mention all those ir victories you are claiming. We all know when it was in a competitive environment, ir nearly lost to cri in CAL. You barely scraped by with a 1-1. Just because you guys like to drum up anti-cri sentiment within the community doesn't mean you can beat us in a real game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> NS at CPL? What?
You can b****, you can whine, having the time of your life See that clan, watch that match, dig in the drama queen
Friday night and the lights are low Looking out for the place to go Where they play the right game, getting in the swing You come in to look for a team Anybody could be that clan Night is young and the clan still sober With a bit of rock music, everything is fine You’re in the mood for a match And when you get the chance...
You are the drama queen, young and annoying , only thirteen Drama queen, feel the pwn from the enemy You can b****, you canwhine, having the time of your life See that clan, watch that match, dig in the drama queen You’re a lamer, you **** ’em off Leave them burning and then you’re gone Looking out for another, anyone will do You’re in the mood for a match And when you get the chance...
You are the drama queen, young and annoying , only thirteen Drama queen, feel the pwn from the enemy You can lame, you can flame, having the time of your life See that punkl, watch that post, dig in the drama queen
Holy crap this has descended into the war of the idiots
guys, there are programs out there, mouse drivers, and controllers, and macro thingys which AUTOMATICALLY, without a script, constantly spam jump (or whatever other command you want them to).
This is considerably better than a 3 jump script because it does it perfectly at the mindless push of a button.
And Flays removal of 'wait' or 'special' will have no effect on this.
So I would think the argument is somewhat moot at this point.
Since its already easier to 'auto bunny hop' using no skill whatsoever, just holding down a button constantly, no timing, and it has nothing to DO with scripting.
<!--QuoteBegin--Last.+Dec 24 2003, 10:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Last. @ Dec 24 2003, 10:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Negative. The whole point of bhopping is you can preserve the speed you gain after a jump, that is, good bhoppers will reach the 300% speed cap. I know I do. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd love to see a demo Last. Every time you touch the ground no matter how quickly you press jump, your speed is reduced to 170%.
Anyway, the whole arguement is stupid. Bhop is a movement technique and it needs to stay because it adds another skill to master. I am dissapointed at all the new games and their engines because of the real feel. It is just wrong to have a game without tons of movement techniques. (The more movement techniques for the players to figure out and master, the better) A skilled player who has mastered movement techniques should go faster and be harder to hit than a random newbie. Have you guys ever played with the Quake engine? Trimping in that game was awesome and I can't believe it got so reduced in Half-Life. The more movement techniques the better, and stop whining about scripts... they don't do much. Not to mention some of the most skilled gamers in the world use scripts so... yeah.
Err this is Nadagast again <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--e.Maven+Dec 25 2003, 01:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (e.Maven @ Dec 25 2003, 01:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Last.+Dec 24 2003, 10:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Last. @ Dec 24 2003, 10:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Negative. The whole point of bhopping is you can preserve the speed you gain after a jump, that is, good bhoppers will reach the 300% speed cap. I know I do. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd love to see a demo Last. Every time you touch the ground no matter how quickly you press jump, your speed is reduced to 170%.
Anyway, the whole arguement is stupid. Bhop is a movement technique and it needs to stay because it adds another skill to master. I am dissapointed at all the new games and their engines because of the real feel. It is just wrong to have a game without tons of movement techniques. Have you guys ever played with the Quake engine? Trimping in that game was awesome and I can't believe it got so reduced in Half-Life. The more movement techniques the better, and stop whining about scripts... they don't do much. Not to mention some of the most skilled gamers in the world use scripts so... yeah.
Err this is Nadagast again <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd love to see you pull out some 1337z0rz HL source code to prove that, or a speed monitor. From what I've read, you gain speed as you bhop faster.
ps: quick note, you're the one generating anti-cri sentiment critical, noone else. Unless you're talking about the jealous retards who think mosis hacks. pss: gogogo HeatoN headshot script, man, I wonder how he got that one!
Yes Communist, God knows that scripts in NS get you headshots. What? Besides, the most skilled gamers in the world are NOT CSers.
Anyway, it's a fact that your speed is reduced to 170% every time. Trust me, if there was no cap, people would be going MUCH faster than they do now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> I've also tested it with a speedometer in NS and I'm absolutely positive this is the cap in TFC.
<!--QuoteBegin--e.Nadagast+Dec 25 2003, 05:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (e.Nadagast @ Dec 25 2003, 05:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yes Communist, God knows that scripts in NS get you headshots. What? Besides, the most skilled gamers in the world are NOT CSers.
No, but there IS skill involved. Like everything. Then again the same could be said about rushing jetpacks and onos. mmm Theres fun. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
You guys can accuse cri all you want. I haven't seen a damn bit of evidence to suggest we've done anything wrong.
About Mosis: <!--QuoteBegin--Flayra+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well I watched the video, and while I'm no pro player, I surely am not convinced. Heck, watching your average Shampoo skulk session in Combat looks worse then this.
Personally, I think we need to stop the mud-slinging and let VAC decide if there are cheaters are not. Any accusations sent around right now are impossible to prove, and only make people upset.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--CAL|Othell+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CAL|Othell)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->People... Settle down and shut up.
There... We have that out of the way. Since when has the community dictated what CAL should or should not do? This is not a democracy. The community can give suggestions all it wants, but unless I agree to it nothing will come of it. How many of you that are calling for action have any real experience catching cheaters? I'd really like to know. I have a feeling its very few... If any. I am having an impartial 3rd party review the evidence. The opinion from this 3rd party will way far more heavily than your ranting and ravings. I will not ban someone just because you people want it done. This is reminding me of the Salem Witch Trials. Settle down and realize that something like this is not handled over night. Mass hysteria gone over board...
You people that are accusing cri of every crime against humanity, please stop. You can't prove anything, all you do is upset everybody. Its funny how ir talks **** the exact same way I do, yet I'm somehow an immature nerd hiding behind his computer? Quite interesting. It works both ways...
If you have under 30 posts, don't bother slandering my clan. Its not even worth the comic relief.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Negative. The whole point of bhopping is you can preserve the speed you gain after a jump, that is, good bhoppers will reach the 300% speed cap. I know I do. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Last, your wrong, even if you used a _special exploit script to spam jump as fast as possible and all the 1337ness in the world you are capped at 170%, your speed is reset to 170% when you jump of the ground, allways, without fail, no matter how leet you are. Therefor you can go faster than 170% but only marginally(IE 170% + what you get in one strafe jump, but then you are going in a crooked path and probably average less than 170% anyway).
If you don't believe me, get sparky utils(a non cheat TFC hook that also works in NS non-steam version) it has a built in speedometer(the console command is bspeedo). Sure you can slide on your belly in a slope at 300% of normal speed after a leap of something but you slow down quickly and the instant you jump you are going at 170%.
edit: For the record, if you think 170% feels like 300% then you would think 300%(like you can get in AGHL) would be feel like a speeding bullet stuck in the back end of a bat out of hell kind of fast...
Name one POST on this ENTIRE page that "SLANDERS" #cri. The only thing that's been said is how bad of a name you give to #cri because of your incessantly stupid posts, such as this one. And above 30 post count? What kind of elitest monkey are you?
mojo: he's not even talking about scripts. this is something you are thankfully unaware of, and it's probably in your best wishes not to learn about yumosis.
Out of my two accounts (this and [TMNT]Bebop) I have maybe 20 posts. I won't even bother defending myself here- judging people by their postcount is unfounded and prejudice.
That said, I never slandered your clan. Stating facts is not slander, even if they discriminate against their target. The banning of one of cri's members from CAL (from said 1-1 match) was indeed a fact. I apologise, my intent was not to offend you. However, I could not let half the story be left untold.
It doesn't quite matter if you believe he cheated, CAL did and now he's gone. Your defense of his actions is admirable, but such doesn't change his fate- which is still fact. Adding upon this, you cannot cite 1-1 cri/ir match as valid competative play. As a result of this game, a cheater was detected and banned from competative play (again, this is fact, not attempt at mudslinging). This invalidates anything to be inferred from the match. If anything should infer however, it would say MORE about ir's abilities as a clan. For, even with the disadvantage of being against a cheater, they still managed to win a round.
Comments
Bunny hopping is a flaw in the HL engine which has not been fixed by Valve because they cannot be bothered. or possibly do not know how too.
It should not exist but the odd bug in the engine allows it.
doesnt matter if someone considers it a skill or a bug or a script. It should be removed along time by Valve. Imagine if you could expliot the engine so that your character can move faster than allowed in game. This would considered an bannable expliot correct? Which is what bunny hopping is.. /shrug
hopefully when hl2 comes out they have a more realistic or at least less flawed phaysics engine.
Feasible... yes, worth it? No...
Not only that but by the only way to stop skulk bhopping (capping the damn air speeds) would kill the fade and lerk and the leap attack.
Personally I like bhop, because it seperates skilled players from less skilled players.
Removing bhop, IMO, is a step too far. NS needs things that seperate the nubs from the decent players. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think bhop takes much skill. I've been doing it for ages now and its not even on the concious level. Same with everybody else out there competitively. I think bhop is just silly. People rely on it and think of themselves as skilled if they know how to do it.
It was kinda cute back when only a select few knew how to do it. Now that everybody and their mother has proved they can script/3jump/do it, you can really see the hilarity of it.
If marine movement was limited due to realism, why not treat the skulks the same way. Skulks weren't bred to be bhoppers were they?
Bhop is so entrenched now that I doubt I'll see its removal. Things like aiming the gun, squad movements, getting in the head of the enemy; those are much more important.
The standpoint
Not that it matters, because ultimatly the scripters are right, removing some commands will not stop the rampant ego-bunnies, but the larger issue here is scrpiting in general; certainly I give that there are some scripts which don't affect gameplay except on a conveience level - but all the same most scripting is an unitended abuse of the system to achive an advantage that a player who refuses to ever use a script (like myself) does not have. Be it any type of script.
There is no middle path to walk here, scripting is cheating. All those who argue against this argue only for the sake of their fake skill: I will not disagree it _does_ take a bit of skill to be able to utilize scripts properly; i've seen some pretty amusing results myself; but that does not remove the factor that they grant an unintended benefiet to the player who learns their use.
Those who support scripting, seek to throw down against the lawfull world of peacefull fair fun-loving ns players - for the evildoers will stop at nothing to support their ways.
If it were up to me I'd disallow scripting but do nothing to prevent it, monitor who is doing it, then when 3.0 comes out ban all the wonids that use them from all NS servers. (anyone remember mao's similar action of telling people to speak out against him, then he locked them all up and had them killed? - to flush out the traitors that propigated anti-sentiment) Similar idea.
But what about people who have a mouse that comes with autorepeat as part of the driver? Or joysticks which do the same. Or macro programs that do that for the keyboard....
Theres no way to 'detect' or for NS to disable some of those.
So the real strategy is... if you want to disable bunny hoping... DISABLE IT!!!!
Find the part in the physics engine that makes it possible, just like you did for the marines... AND REMOVE IT.
If the aliens suddenly become too slow to use... SPEED THEM UP.
Fix the problem, not a side effect!!!
EDIT: I forgot to mention all those ir victories you are claiming. We all know when it was in a competitive environment, ir nearly lost to cri in CAL. You barely scraped by with a 1-1. Just because you guys like to drum up anti-cri sentiment within the community doesn't mean you can beat us in a real game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can we keep the oh so wonderful clan drama out of a thread for once perhaps?
No kidding. You guys will outhack them 5-1.
Yep, I'd agree. Thats why they'll fight Flayra to the death to keep it that way. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heres my other 2 cents. You don't NEED to bhop to be good. Infact if you do then you may win games but you still are nothing in my eyes. Using the games built -in strengths, then using them effectively to win the day is much more gratifying. Skulks went from Sneaky little bastages in 1.0, to exploitingly fast flesh missles that have teeth, and 3.0 it seems to be the same. I can bhop, let me tell you, it DRAINS the atmosphere. I don't even feel like its NS when bhopping is so prevelent. Of course this is gonna be sensitive. Lotsa young kids wanna look cool so they do nothing but run around a map and tap the jump key till their finger is raw...
Skulks are SKULKS. They sneak, they use their surroundings to their advantage, and they are efficient. Seeing a brigade if hoppy little monsters makes me think easter more than NS. I'm all for bhoppings removal. NS could be played as it was meant.
(also if anyone wants to argue that bhopping isn't an exploit I can dig around and look for the article on it from Valve)
On a second note:
Cri.tical, #cri uses a couple scripts in their configs. I know this because one of your veteran members sent me his config file.
So don't be the pot calling the kettle black about bunnyhopping being unfair. You call out other clans on their use of bunnyhops, but you don't mind a little pistol scripting, heavy cvar modifications, etc. gg. and that was only the config.cfg file. God only knows what other configs get executed during the game.
Our first string roster would easily be able to attend such an event without worry of age limitation, funding aside, but that has nothing to do with this.
ir nearly lost to cri, cri nearly lost to the "skillless" ir, but that has nothing to do with this.
Please stay on topic and do not make this renewal of an old debate a personal attack.
Of course, half of your team won't be able to participate due to age limitations. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
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Critical, you are the worst example of an online gamer. You are a crass, ignorant individual who is so caught up with setting up this standard of "I am better than you" that you come with random and inappropriate personal attacks. You're the ones who make gamers the nerds. You're a social outcast who uses his PC as a great equalizer so he can talk smack and make himself feel better.
Grow up. I'm glad you're good at NS or think you are. I'm glad your clan is good. But don't bring your petty and dull insults the forum. If you have something to say, PM it to me. Nobody else cares that you need to get off on making irrelevant points. Go jerk off somewhere else and leave the NS chat to the grown ups.
If this sounds hypocritical, it isn't. I have every right to respond the several insults he's flung toward my clanmates and I. Not to mention countless others who have had the bad luck of speaking with him.
Edit: Bunny hop should stay. I don't bunny hop, but I see no reason to remove it.
Sigh, another discussion lost to idiocy. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
EDIT: I forgot to mention all those ir victories you are claiming. We all know when it was in a competitive environment, ir nearly lost to cri in CAL. You barely scraped by with a 1-1. Just because you guys like to drum up anti-cri sentiment within the community doesn't mean you can beat us in a real game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll forget the fact that as a result of said 1-1 CAL match, one of cri's members was banned from CAL for wallhacking. Yes, I'll just overlook this and continue on...
I know how to bunny hop. But I will agree with you that most of those who are "whining" to remove it can't.
I just don't see the point in it, really. I've flip flopped on the whole idea, I used to be a huge supporter of bhop. Just because a team can bhop doesn't mean they'll hold up in a high pressure situation on a LAN, either.
I hope to see ir at the CPL this year. Mosis especially hopes you guys come down there. I've heard word of an unofficial tourney in the works.
Of course, half of your team won't be able to participate due to age limitations. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
EDIT: I forgot to mention all those ir victories you are claiming. We all know when it was in a competitive environment, ir nearly lost to cri in CAL. You barely scraped by with a 1-1. Just because you guys like to drum up anti-cri sentiment within the community doesn't mean you can beat us in a real game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS at CPL? What?
See that clan, watch that match, dig in the drama queen
Friday night and the lights are low
Looking out for the place to go
Where they play the right game, getting in the swing
You come in to look for a team
Anybody could be that clan
Night is young and the clan still sober
With a bit of rock music, everything is fine
You’re in the mood for a match
And when you get the chance...
You are the drama queen, young and annoying , only thirteen
Drama queen, feel the pwn from the enemy
You can b****, you canwhine, having the time of your life
See that clan, watch that match, dig in the drama queen
You’re a lamer, you **** ’em off
Leave them burning and then you’re gone
Looking out for another, anyone will do
You’re in the mood for a match
And when you get the chance...
You are the drama queen, young and annoying , only thirteen
Drama queen, feel the pwn from the enemy
You can lame, you can flame, having the time of your life
See that punkl, watch that post, dig in the drama queen
Original Lyrics by ABBA®
New Competitive lyrics by CommunistWithAGun®
guys, there are programs out there, mouse drivers, and controllers, and macro thingys which AUTOMATICALLY, without a script, constantly spam jump (or whatever other command you want them to).
This is considerably better than a 3 jump script because it does it perfectly at the mindless push of a button.
And Flays removal of 'wait' or 'special' will have no effect on this.
So I would think the argument is somewhat moot at this point.
Since its already easier to 'auto bunny hop' using no skill whatsoever, just holding down a button constantly, no timing, and it has nothing to DO with scripting.
I'd love to see a demo Last. Every time you touch the ground no matter how quickly you press jump, your speed is reduced to 170%.
Anyway, the whole arguement is stupid. Bhop is a movement technique and it needs to stay because it adds another skill to master. I am dissapointed at all the new games and their engines because of the real feel. It is just wrong to have a game without tons of movement techniques. (The more movement techniques for the players to figure out and master, the better) A skilled player who has mastered movement techniques should go faster and be harder to hit than a random newbie. Have you guys ever played with the Quake engine? Trimping in that game was awesome and I can't believe it got so reduced in Half-Life. The more movement techniques the better, and stop whining about scripts... they don't do much. Not to mention some of the most skilled gamers in the world use scripts so... yeah.
Err this is Nadagast again <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'd love to see a demo Last. Every time you touch the ground no matter how quickly you press jump, your speed is reduced to 170%.
Anyway, the whole arguement is stupid. Bhop is a movement technique and it needs to stay because it adds another skill to master. I am dissapointed at all the new games and their engines because of the real feel. It is just wrong to have a game without tons of movement techniques. Have you guys ever played with the Quake engine? Trimping in that game was awesome and I can't believe it got so reduced in Half-Life. The more movement techniques the better, and stop whining about scripts... they don't do much. Not to mention some of the most skilled gamers in the world use scripts so... yeah.
Err this is Nadagast again <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd love to see you pull out some 1337z0rz HL source code to prove that, or a speed monitor. From what I've read, you gain speed as you bhop faster.
ps: quick note, you're the one generating anti-cri sentiment critical, noone else. Unless you're talking about the jealous retards who think mosis hacks.
pss: gogogo HeatoN headshot script, man, I wonder how he got that one!
Anyway, it's a fact that your speed is reduced to 170% every time. Trust me, if there was no cap, people would be going MUCH faster than they do now <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I've also tested it with a speedometer in NS and I'm absolutely positive this is the cap in TFC.
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Buh? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
You guys can accuse cri all you want. I haven't seen a damn bit of evidence to suggest we've done anything wrong.
About Mosis:
<!--QuoteBegin--Flayra+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well I watched the video, and while I'm no pro player, I surely am not convinced. Heck, watching your average Shampoo skulk session in Combat looks worse then this.
Personally, I think we need to stop the mud-slinging and let VAC decide if there are cheaters are not. Any accusations sent around right now are impossible to prove, and only make people upset.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--CAL|Othell+--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CAL|Othell)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->People...
Settle down and shut up.
There... We have that out of the way. Since when has the community dictated what CAL should or should not do? This is not a democracy. The community can give suggestions all it wants, but unless I agree to it nothing will come of it.
How many of you that are calling for action have any real experience catching cheaters? I'd really like to know. I have a feeling its very few... If any.
I am having an impartial 3rd party review the evidence. The opinion from this 3rd party will way far more heavily than your ranting and ravings.
I will not ban someone just because you people want it done. This is reminding me of the Salem Witch Trials. Settle down and realize that something like this is not handled over night.
Mass hysteria gone over board...
/me sighs.
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You people that are accusing cri of every crime against humanity, please stop. You can't prove anything, all you do is upset everybody. Its funny how ir talks **** the exact same way I do, yet I'm somehow an immature nerd hiding behind his computer? Quite interesting. It works both ways...
If you have under 30 posts, don't bother slandering my clan. Its not even worth the comic relief.
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Last, your wrong, even if you used a _special exploit script to spam jump as fast as possible and all the 1337ness in the world you are capped at 170%, your speed is reset to 170% when you jump of the ground, allways, without fail, no matter how leet you are. Therefor you can go faster than 170% but only marginally(IE 170% + what you get in one strafe jump, but then you are going in a crooked path and probably average less than 170% anyway).
If you don't believe me, get sparky utils(a non cheat TFC hook that also works in NS non-steam version) it has a built in speedometer(the console command is bspeedo). Sure you can slide on your belly in a slope at 300% of normal speed after a leap of something but you slow down quickly and the instant you jump you are going at 170%.
edit: For the record, if you think 170% feels like 300% then you would think 300%(like you can get in AGHL) would be feel like a speeding bullet stuck in the back end of a bat out of hell kind of fast...
Name one POST on this ENTIRE page that "SLANDERS" #cri. The only thing that's been said is how bad of a name you give to #cri because of your incessantly stupid posts, such as this one. And above 30 post count? What kind of elitest monkey are you?
mojo: he's not even talking about scripts. this is something you are thankfully unaware of, and it's probably in your best wishes not to learn about yumosis.
I won't even bother defending myself here- judging people by their postcount is unfounded and prejudice.
That said, I never slandered your clan. Stating facts is not slander, even if they discriminate against their target. The banning of one of cri's members from CAL (from said 1-1 match) was indeed a fact. I apologise, my intent was not to offend you. However, I could not let half the story be left untold.
It doesn't quite matter if you believe he cheated, CAL did and now he's gone. Your defense of his actions is admirable, but such doesn't change his fate- which is still fact. Adding upon this, you cannot cite 1-1 cri/ir match as valid competative play. As a result of this game, a cheater was detected and banned from competative play (again, this is fact, not attempt at mudslinging). This invalidates anything to be inferred from the match. If anything should infer however, it would say MORE about ir's abilities as a clan. For, even with the disadvantage of being against a cheater, they still managed to win a round.