Surround being fixed is a godsend.
Only one or two remaining issues known (taunt sounds)
Ugh everytime I try downmix 5.1 it just feels wrong...... I guess if I really want 5.1 without muffled audio or things sounding in the distance I'd need actual 5.1 speakers.. using soundcards to downmix to stereo headphones works but just doesn't sound as good as leaving them on stereo :P
Well loading on a regular hard drive is much quicker now, didn't get to test any gameplay or performance changes
But it looks good, by the way does this game have any type of like gamma control built in? I'm using the nsl low lights and I did adjust my monitor settings but I want it to be a bit brighter and didn't notice any gamma commands (just did a quick sweep cause I had to logoff)
Did you even read the other post where I already answered this? You don't need to post this again. One IP is pre-placed and the other one is randomly placed in code.
I did indeed read your post. Was just showing it happens very frequently, this being the 4th time I've seen it. Maybe CDT can put a min distance between structures that are spawned randomly.
And I don't get why you're upset I posted another screenshot. Just because you've explained why it happens doesn't mean discussion should cease. Hopefully I don't get another veiled ban threat via PM for this post.
Did you even read the other post where I already answered this? You don't need to post this again. One IP is pre-placed and the other one is randomly placed in code.
I did indeed read your post. Was just showing it happens very frequently, this being the 4th time I've seen it. Maybe CDT can put a min distance between structures that are spawned randomly.
And I don't get why you're upset I posted another screenshot. Just because you've explained why it happens doesn't mean discussion should cease. Hopefully I don't get another veiled ban threat via PM for this post.
So the issue is acknowledged and you keep posting it? What is that going to accomplish? There is nothing to discuss.
Did you even read the other post where I already answered this? You don't need to post this again. One IP is pre-placed and the other one is randomly placed in code.
I did indeed read your post. Was just showing it happens very frequently, this being the 4th time I've seen it. Maybe CDT can put a min distance between structures that are spawned randomly.
And I don't get why you're upset I posted another screenshot. Just because you've explained why it happens doesn't mean discussion should cease. Hopefully I don't get another veiled ban threat via PM for this post.
So the issue is acknowledged and you keep posting it? What is that going to accomplish? There is nothing to discuss.
I didn't realize it was acknowledged as an issue until now.
I don't know if others have this too, but loading takes actually way longer for me now and I also get regulary crashes.
But I can alt tab now without the game freezing which is nice
What loading? Main menu, first loading when you join a server, mapchange or everything I stated there?
generally the server join loading times or when I want to open a sandbox game. So on first try I timeout after 10 minutes or something like that and on second try it needs 16 seconds to load in
SebMelbourne, AUJoin Date: 2013-04-01Member: 184576Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Retired Community Developer
edited August 2014
**** me there are some dumb replies in this thread.
Lets get a couple things straight here.
1) You guys wouldn't be complaining about these changes if the compmod had a different name.
2) The compmod was not designed to seperate vanilla and comp play, it was designed to improve on the foundation that is already there. I don't know what anyone could possibly disagree with there. Suffice to say, 99% of the people in this thread have no idea how to balance a game nor should they act like it.
3) YES THE COMPMOD WORKS VERY WELL IN PUBS! Why is that you ask? I thought it was designed for 6v6 only!
Guess what, NS2 is the same game in pub and comp. There is some dumb stigma around comp games that somehow there is a completely different game being played or something. No. There isn't. Everything is nearly identical at different numbers of players.
So lets look at some direct quotes shall we?
The mission was to satisfy the pubs and the competitive players, to keep it balanced for both. Which is, as stated before, impossible.
No. Not impossible. Same game, read above.
The existence of CompMod was what many had wished for, basically 2 versions, one for pubs, and one for comp play. And I thought everyone was happy with that.
Again, no. The whole compmod hasn't been implemented, it definitely isn't as drastic as you make it out to be.
Now vanilla is CompMod (light). And I can't even say I dislike everything about it. That's the MEAN thing about it, every single design decision on its own probably makes sense. The fade changes for example. Stab and Vortex were underused. Metabolize, so many people wanted that back. The reduced lifeform cost. Makes sense.
There are so many correct decisions, and it is still fresh, maybe the sum of it will turn out balanced and good in the end. But I don't feel it.
WHAT THE ****
This proves that its just about the 'idea' that comp players are infecting the perfect balance that is vanilla ns2 that you don't like, not the actual changes.
out of balance because of 120 gameplay changes
I get the exaggeration, but still, you can't prove its unbalanced at the moment. And its not like the CDT WANT it unbalanced. If something ends up being unbalanced its pretty easy to change with an active dev team.
And I don't enjoy it. At all. I've played some rounds and I hated every single one.
Have you actually tried liking it? Cus it doesn't look like it to me.
I hate how the competitive players reign even more now than before.
And the truth comes out. And people rag on comp players for being elitist.
As an Aussie player, unfortunately we've had CompMod forced on us for many months now due to it being on most of our servers. I think it's a great mod for the competitive community, but seriously...a big WTF on forcing all of the pubs onto this?
... No one has forced the compmod for anyone. Server admins that pay for these Australian servers with their own cash decide with the majority of the Aus community via an open forum if they should have compmod installed or not. Guess what? People liked it more than vanilla, some didn't even notice! Not one person has actually said that they don't like the compmod on these servers. If you can tell me one instance where you wished you were playing vanilla over compmod I will eat my hat.
What I would like to know from CDT is why all of a sudden you felt is completely necessary to rework the entire resource and purchasing system?
It wasn't broken and it wasn't 'fixed' or 'reworked', its barely a huge change at all. Lifeform timings are the SAME.
Since this version feels a lot like CompMod, it feels like it is catering to the competitive guys only. The feeling for me is, this is a revision for the pros. Handling and balancing is for the pros. Pubbers and rookies are not considered.
The thing is, you haven't actually said WHY these changes are geared towards 'pros' and I use that term loosely because they don't exist for this game.
I might be able to help you out with your answer though. They aren't.
there is a possibility of 3 Fades, and still 3 Skulks. Before, that Gate would go down pretty fast but now it's going to go down lightning fast with little to no reaction time available for the Marine team
This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. CompMod or no CompMod, if you have 3 fades and 3 skulks on a gate, it's ****ed no matter what build or mod you are playing, simple as that.
Sorry for bringing the level of class down a notch in this thread. If you got to the end of this post, congrats. The h8rs probably won't read it anyways, heads too far up their glutei maximi.
bonageJoin Date: 2012-10-13Member: 162230Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
edited August 2014
I have always been against the name 'comp mod' - it implies some sort of special thing to cater for the comp scene when in actual fact, it's simply a balance mod to fix the biggest issues that the game had. It just so happens that it was designed by competitive players, for use in the competitive scene. That doesn't mean that those mechanics work exclusively for the 6v6 setting. Many of the changes fix issues that many public players have had in the past (unkillable gorge tunnels for example with heal stack).
All CDT have done here, is cherry pick the best mechanics from the mod and put them into vanilla. This is exactly the same thing that UWE did with sewleks balance mod around 250. Those were changes for the better, and so are these.
It's human nature to oppose anything that is foreign. But life goes on, and im sure after a few games people will realise that the game is almost exactly the same.
I don't know if others have this too, but loading takes actually way longer for me now and I also get regulary crashes.
But I can alt tab now without the game freezing which is nice
What loading? Main menu, first loading when you join a server, mapchange or everything I stated there?
generally the server join loading times or when I want to open a sandbox game. So on first try I timeout after 10 minutes or something like that and on second try it needs 16 seconds to load in
Did you try to open your console during these loadings to find out what's wrong? For instance, I had some issues with b267 'cause one of the files, the one about Bindings or something took so many time to open. I'd like to know if that's the same file or not, just being curious.
@bonage, I agree about the name but it was made initially for competitive scene so, when they released the mod, that made sense. Curious again, what denomination would be better in your opinion?
I agree about the name but it was made initially for competitive scene so, when they released the mod, that made sense. Curious again, what denomination would be better in your opinion?
It makes the most sense yes, but it suffers from an identity crisis from half of the playerbase that stems from the whole 6v6 is evil idea. Not much you can really do about it imo. It has always been like this, and there isn't much that can be done about it.
I don't know if others have this too, but loading takes actually way longer for me now and I also get regulary crashes.
But I can alt tab now without the game freezing which is nice
What loading? Main menu, first loading when you join a server, mapchange or everything I stated there?
generally the server join loading times or when I want to open a sandbox game. So on first try I timeout after 10 minutes or something like that and on second try it needs 16 seconds to load in
Did you try to open your console during these loadings to find out what's wrong? For instance, I had some issues with b267 'cause one of the files, the one about Bindings or something took so many time to open. I'd like to know if that's the same file or not, just being curious.
yes I've done that. the only strange thing I noticed is that it seems to interrupt the loading of the map for some seconds to set pixels for the loading screens as they change
2. Why completely overhaul the resourcing system which was working fine
3. No, tunnels are primarily used to move quickly from point A to B. Spreading infestation is just an added benefit of a tunnel. For 1 marine to have the ability to very quickly take down a whole teams travel route is ridiculous. At what point was it ever known that Gorge Tunnels were OP and had to be nerfed?
2. I assume by resourcing you mean starting resources and lifeform costs, not alien upgrades being decoupled from structures (which PTs were against when it was tested pre reinforced)
Like i mentioned in here previously, cheaper lifeforms means less punishing elements and less slippery slope experiences (which effect pubs more!) to allow for more comebacks and greater variety in rounds, just like the decoupling of upgrades. As an added bonus it allows players more chances to learn how to play and it doesn't affect lifeform timings, i.e. when they first appear on the field.
3. Tunnels are used primarily to travel.. so in large pubs on average you see 3 tunnels within the first minute of a round, creating early map control - especially when they are reinforced with hydras, clog walls, whips, shades, constantly reinforced by skulks and a healing gorge while it takes you and another marine 20+ seconds to kill it if you've already cleared everything else.
This makes that scenario more of a challenge now at least, so its not guaranteed PvE reinforced map control in the first minute of a round against pub marines.
Remember when tunnels were on biomass 6 and aliens still had a 65% winrate?.... I am not sure the gorge tunnel scenario in 267 was healthy or necessary.
So let me get this right, to upgrade bile it costs 2 minutes and 50 resources now?
And GL's only cost 30 to research?
No, please read the changelog: Reduced Advanced Armory cost from 30 to 20 team res.
Also, A reduction in armslab cost from 20 to 15 team res.
But.. if you were looking for GLs as the counter to bile, you're doing it wrong.
Oh and you can get that AA in 1:40
Oh and you can rush Exos and get them ~ 3 minute mark as well.
But none of that will help if multiple gorges can slip by your marines in the first few minutes.
10+20 = 30 ? 10 for the armory, and 20 for the advanced armory
also, 15 (biomass1) 20 (biomass2) 15 (bilebomb upgrade) is 50 to me... Also, I did the math on paper, pre 268 it was 20+30+30 agreed? 20 and 30 for the biomass and 30 for the gorge upgrades. which is 80 resources,
Starting resources is 60?
Maybe for 5 vs 5 or 6 vs 6 these changes are fine, but for 10 vs 10 + I can really see bad things happen once they know this is possible.
To all those concerned about the implementation of balance changes from CompMod:
Rest assured that these changes are not 1-1 copies from the currently used (and experimental) version of CompMod. It is very, very, very unlikely that changes like HMG and phase-able exosuits will ever be in the vanilla version of the game.
Are balance changes drawn from CompMod? Yes, because arguably competitive matches achieve the closest testable circumstances of balanced matches that can be found. Are these changes pulled from CompMod with no regard for how they will impact public play? Absolutely not. The Australian community has been playing on v2 of CompMod for at least 3 months, at large player counts (10v10 and higher) with very positive results. The changes put into vanilla were drawn from both CompMod and things learned from the public Australian scene.
None of these changes were implemented just because they "sound like a good idea," but because they address real balance and fun concerns in public play.
Why is it an issue? Well, in compmod you have 6v6 (1 Skulk/2 Lerks/2 Fades). If Lerks are out of position and only leave 2 Fades and 1 Skulk to grind a gate, it'll take a while to widdle that gate down. Whereas, in public games, there is a possibility of 3 Fades, and still 3 Skulks. Before, that Gate would go down pretty fast but now it's going to go down lightning fast with little to no reaction time available for the Marine team. This change was not thought out for public games, period. It was an attempt to try and standardize some of compmod's (drastic) changes into vanilla, with no thought about faction balance in a public scenario. Again, I am standing by my stance of what I previously posted; It's not: "This is broken, and should be fixed/changed." it's: "You know what'd be a cool idea? X!".
As for this, I don't know how anyone can take such a situation and forget that if you're going from 2 Fades and 1 Skulk to 3 Fades and 3 Skulks, that you're going to have 6 other marines around. What are they doing in your situation? Phase gates are very strong in pubs simply due to the 'sheepherder effect' where everyone spawning phases immediately. You can't just pull one thing out and say "This! This isn't balanced!" You have to look at everything as a whole.
EDIT: The CDT has taken a really big step from making great quality-of-life changes to now dictating how the game can be played from their own personalized experiences. Please take a step back and continue making quality-of-life changes/balances rather than drastic overhauls.
I don't think the CDT was ever intended to only make Quality-of-Life changes. I will say that all of the balance changes contained in this patch were discussed and approved by Charlie.
If anyone has any specific questions about why something was changed, please post and we'll try to address it. General "I don't like change" comments aren't very helpful to anyone.
1) You guys wouldn't be complaining about these changes if the compmod had a different name.
What the hell are you talking about? I'm against it because:
1.) I don't like some changes.
2.) It wasn't made public that such drastic gameplay changes were going to be made (and certain balance elements)
3.) It's being forced on us right now, and a huge circlejerk of people are sticking with it and opposing any relevant argument on the subject.
If the makers of CombatMOD were apart of the CDT and suddenly CombatMOD changes were, silently worked in and forced, I'm pretty sure people would still be pissed.
These changes could have been made over a new workshop mod forked from compmod and given as a choice to server owners, then I'm pretty sure many people wouldn't be so "gosh-darn against change.". Instead, the CDT(&friends) kept getting upset over the difference of compmod and vanilla every time they joined a Hyperion server and felt it was a great idea to just push this entirely on everyone.
I played the entire last season(poorly) and loved some of the changes in compmod, only a few I hated and some I disliked. The thing is though, it was an option still to be played in vanilla or not.
Again, this is not about change, (Least, for most the relevant posts.) it's about the intentions and development path of the CDT currently.
So stop posting your stupid proverbs and quotes about change in a subtle attempt to say "fuck you" to everyone making a relevant complaint.
And yes, saying "I'm not happy with X being in Vanilla." is a relevant complaint and if you can't see why it is then maybe you should put more thought into it.
As for this, I don't know how anyone can take such a situation and forget that if you're going from 2 Fades and 1 Skulk to 3 Fades and 3 Skulks, that you're going to have 6 other marines around. What are they doing in your situation? Phase gates are very strong in pubs simply due to the 'sheepherder effect' where everyone spawning phases immediately. You can't just pull one thing out and say "This! This isn't balanced!" You have to look at everything as a whole.
Because it is a public game, and people aren't always going to be standing by on phasegates. The 3 Skulks/3Fades now will take down the gate lightning fast in comparison to before. People aren't watching their map, thinking logically... You'll at most 2-3 people on the marine team that actually do.
If anyone has any specific questions about why something was changed, please post and we'll try to address it. General "I don't like change" comments aren't very helpful to anyone.
They should be, since they give you insight on the community. Some don't like change, you like change. Why do people need to respect the latter instead of the former? Especially since, anything that isn't as plain as that comment is being completely shutdown and circlejerk voted down. Just look at my past posts so far. I'm sure with everyone being disagree voted that states something against this patch is just foaming at the mouth to post and just see several different people disagree their post and then have 1 person reply with a completely one-sided statement that will surely encourage them to voice their opinion again.
But none of that will help if multiple gorges can slip by your marines in the first few minutes.
It's a pub, @IronHorse. Not everyone is going out of their way to plan logically/ahead. Least, I hope you were being sarcastic... Counter-arguments like this aren't helpful since you're expecting more from players than they usually give in public games.
As for this, I don't know how anyone can take such a situation and forget that if you're going from 2 Fades and 1 Skulk to 3 Fades and 3 Skulks, that you're going to have 6 other marines around. What are they doing in your situation? Phase gates are very strong in pubs simply due to the 'sheepherder effect' where everyone spawning phases immediately. You can't just pull one thing out and say "This! This isn't balanced!" You have to look at everything as a whole.
Because it is a public game, and people aren't always going to be standing by on phasegates. The 3 Skulks/3Fades now will take down the gate lightning fast in comparison to before. People aren't watching their map, thinking logically... You'll at most 2-3 people on the marine team that actually do.
Lightning fast in comparison to before? Fades do less damage to armored structures now than prior to 268. I'd venture to say that the phasegate would die less than 1 second faster than prior builds. Feel free to test it.
The fact is that 3 skulks and 3 fades on an unguarded gate will kill that gate. And further, they should kill that gate.
If anyone has any specific questions about why something was changed, please post and we'll try to address it. General "I don't like change" comments aren't very helpful to anyone.
They should be, since they give you insight on the community. Some don't like change, you like change. Why do people need to respect the latter instead of the former? Especially since, anything that isn't as plain as that comment is being completely shutdown and circlejerk voted down. Just look at my past posts so far. I'm sure with everyone being disagree voted that states something against this patch is just foaming at the mouth to post and just see several different people disagree their post and then have 1 person reply with a completely one-sided statement that will surely encourage them to voice their opinion again.
You're completely missing the point. Very general comments like "I don't like these changes" aren't helpful, because they cannot be addressed in any meaningful manner. Now if someone were to say "I don't like the reduced evolution timer for skulks," then I could respond with "This reduces the amount of time each skulk is required to spend in base on each spawn. More playtime with upgrades means more fun."
Specific feedback nets specific responses. General feedback eventually devolves into namecalling and ridicule, which you could already see happening in this thread.
If you say you dislike X being in vanilla you need to explain why. It may be a valid complaint but is far from constructive.
I could say I dislike how prevalent alcohol is is American culture. Or I could say I dislike how prevalent alcohol is in American culture because I have seen the negative impact it has on people through all stages of life. Alcohol is easily abused and is culturally encouraged. It ought not be encouraged.
I should of used something from ns2 but that was on my mind but I feel my point was made.
Some specific stuff: basic skulk vs marine. Skulks have been terrible since the insane acceleration changes. Either nerf marine accel or give skulks acceleration back. Yes, aliens currently have better building power, but it's not worth sacrificing a balanced basic unit vs basic unit which all players will experience every game. Nerf alien economy if you have to, but un upgraded lmg marine must equal unupgraded skulks in power. Extend bite range, return the tiered bite cone too.
Fades: stooop. revert to shadowstep fade movement, leave blink, get rid of stab and vortex or dont it doesnt matter, and leave metabolize. pleaseee.
or just stop making such huge sweeping changes every patch. it's causing massive player loss in the long term.
If anything it should have been buffed in the sound department when shaded. Shade is suppose to hide sound when fully upgraded, but the tunnel makes an exit sound that can be heard on the other side of the map. It's ridiculous. A shade at the very least should reduce the exit sound.
Some specific stuff: basic skulk vs marine. Skulks have been terrible since the insane acceleration changes. Either nerf marine accel or give skulks acceleration back. Yes, aliens currently have better building power, but it's not worth sacrificing a balanced basic unit vs basic unit which all players will experience every game. Nerf alien economy if you have to, but un upgraded lmg marine must equal unupgraded skulks in power. Extend bite range, return the tiered bite cone too.
I'm not sure what you mean here. Skulks have all the tools at their disposal in order to combat unupgraded marines via ambushing and group engagements. Further, upgrades like carapace and celerity are cheaper and should be appearing earlier in the game, helping those early skulk engagements. The tiered bite cone was removed because:
1. Performance improved enough since its implementation that consistent biting is possible.
2. The varied damage dealt was confusing to players, new and old alike. Consistency in damage dealt is important.
Fades: stooop. revert to shadowstep fade movement, leave blink, get rid of stab and vortex or dont it doesnt matter, and leave metabolize. pleaseee.
The old shadowstep movement was fundamentally broken. You achieved insane bursts in speed for low energy cost, could move around the map at high rates of speed for low energy cost, and did not have to watch your energy usage in combat. In my opinion, blink is more fun as a movement mechanic from both sides of the field. You can do some impressive and versatile movement (at the cost of more energy) which makes you harder to hit, while at the same time being easier to hit if you decide not to expend the extra energy.
I think when there are six aliens dry-humping an unattended phase gate, the exact amount of damage half of them happen to be doing to it is the least of your worries. You're not going to be saving that gate regardless unless the alien players make a colossal blunder.
And that would be the alien players making the mistake of tunneling too hard and allowing that GL to live long enough to do anything important in that situation.
They should be, since they give you insight on the community. Some don't like change, you like change. Why do people need to respect the latter instead of the former? Especially since, anything that isn't as plain as that comment is being completely shutdown and circlejerk voted down. Just look at my past posts so far. I'm sure with everyone being disagree voted that states something against this patch is just foaming at the mouth to post and just see several different people disagree their post and then have 1 person reply with a completely one-sided statement that will surely encourage them to voice their opinion again.
There's a difference between not liking change because it's change, and not liking change for specific reasons. Going onto forums and simply saying "I don't like this change" and not giving any reasons as to why you don't like it isn't constructive and doesn't help anyone. It's just pointless complaining that serves no one.
If you came and said "I dislike this change because..." and then gave specific reasons why you don't like it, people would take you more seriously. If, for example, you said that you disliked the changes to the exos because you preferred them to be more mobile and less damaging, then you're at least coming here with a legitimate, well-formed argument. I wouldn't agree with you, and neither would a lot of people, but at least you'd be starting an actual discussion.
If you just come here and say "I don't like this because it changes things," how do you expect people to respond? It makes you sound like you're blindly against change of any kind, regardless of what it is.
Comments
Ugh everytime I try downmix 5.1 it just feels wrong...... I guess if I really want 5.1 without muffled audio or things sounding in the distance I'd need actual 5.1 speakers.. using soundcards to downmix to stereo headphones works but just doesn't sound as good as leaving them on stereo :P
But it looks good, by the way does this game have any type of like gamma control built in? I'm using the nsl low lights and I did adjust my monitor settings but I want it to be a bit brighter and didn't notice any gamma commands (just did a quick sweep cause I had to logoff)
Is it in video settings?
I did indeed read your post. Was just showing it happens very frequently, this being the 4th time I've seen it. Maybe CDT can put a min distance between structures that are spawned randomly.
And I don't get why you're upset I posted another screenshot. Just because you've explained why it happens doesn't mean discussion should cease. Hopefully I don't get another veiled ban threat via PM for this post.
I didn't realize it was acknowledged as an issue until now.
generally the server join loading times or when I want to open a sandbox game. So on first try I timeout after 10 minutes or something like that and on second try it needs 16 seconds to load in
Lets get a couple things straight here.
1) You guys wouldn't be complaining about these changes if the compmod had a different name.
2) The compmod was not designed to seperate vanilla and comp play, it was designed to improve on the foundation that is already there. I don't know what anyone could possibly disagree with there. Suffice to say, 99% of the people in this thread have no idea how to balance a game nor should they act like it.
3) YES THE COMPMOD WORKS VERY WELL IN PUBS! Why is that you ask? I thought it was designed for 6v6 only!
Guess what, NS2 is the same game in pub and comp. There is some dumb stigma around comp games that somehow there is a completely different game being played or something. No. There isn't. Everything is nearly identical at different numbers of players.
So lets look at some direct quotes shall we?
No. Not impossible. Same game, read above.
Again, no. The whole compmod hasn't been implemented, it definitely isn't as drastic as you make it out to be.
WHAT THE ****
This proves that its just about the 'idea' that comp players are infecting the perfect balance that is vanilla ns2 that you don't like, not the actual changes.
I get the exaggeration, but still, you can't prove its unbalanced at the moment. And its not like the CDT WANT it unbalanced. If something ends up being unbalanced its pretty easy to change with an active dev team.
Have you actually tried liking it? Cus it doesn't look like it to me.
And the truth comes out. And people rag on comp players for being elitist.
... No one has forced the compmod for anyone. Server admins that pay for these Australian servers with their own cash decide with the majority of the Aus community via an open forum if they should have compmod installed or not. Guess what? People liked it more than vanilla, some didn't even notice! Not one person has actually said that they don't like the compmod on these servers. If you can tell me one instance where you wished you were playing vanilla over compmod I will eat my hat.
It wasn't broken and it wasn't 'fixed' or 'reworked', its barely a huge change at all. Lifeform timings are the SAME.
The thing is, you haven't actually said WHY these changes are geared towards 'pros' and I use that term loosely because they don't exist for this game.
I might be able to help you out with your answer though. They aren't.
This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. CompMod or no CompMod, if you have 3 fades and 3 skulks on a gate, it's ****ed no matter what build or mod you are playing, simple as that.
Sorry for bringing the level of class down a notch in this thread. If you got to the end of this post, congrats. The h8rs probably won't read it anyways, heads too far up their glutei maximi.
My point exactly!
All CDT have done here, is cherry pick the best mechanics from the mod and put them into vanilla. This is exactly the same thing that UWE did with sewleks balance mod around 250. Those were changes for the better, and so are these.
It's human nature to oppose anything that is foreign. But life goes on, and im sure after a few games people will realise that the game is almost exactly the same.
Did you try to open your console during these loadings to find out what's wrong? For instance, I had some issues with b267 'cause one of the files, the one about Bindings or something took so many time to open. I'd like to know if that's the same file or not, just being curious.
@bonage, I agree about the name but it was made initially for competitive scene so, when they released the mod, that made sense. Curious again, what denomination would be better in your opinion?
It makes the most sense yes, but it suffers from an identity crisis from half of the playerbase that stems from the whole 6v6 is evil idea. Not much you can really do about it imo. It has always been like this, and there isn't much that can be done about it.
yes I've done that. the only strange thing I noticed is that it seems to interrupt the loading of the map for some seconds to set pixels for the loading screens as they change
Yes, balance was bad enough to warrant change. It may have "felt" balanced.. but it was not. Not by a long shot according to win rates.
@Martigen
Some balance discussion that influenced these changes was in fact had here http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/135131/ns2-balance-discussion-as-of-build-266#latest
2. I assume by resourcing you mean starting resources and lifeform costs, not alien upgrades being decoupled from structures (which PTs were against when it was tested pre reinforced)
Like i mentioned in here previously, cheaper lifeforms means less punishing elements and less slippery slope experiences (which effect pubs more!) to allow for more comebacks and greater variety in rounds, just like the decoupling of upgrades. As an added bonus it allows players more chances to learn how to play and it doesn't affect lifeform timings, i.e. when they first appear on the field.
3. Tunnels are used primarily to travel.. so in large pubs on average you see 3 tunnels within the first minute of a round, creating early map control - especially when they are reinforced with hydras, clog walls, whips, shades, constantly reinforced by skulks and a healing gorge while it takes you and another marine 20+ seconds to kill it if you've already cleared everything else.
This makes that scenario more of a challenge now at least, so its not guaranteed PvE reinforced map control in the first minute of a round against pub marines.
Remember when tunnels were on biomass 6 and aliens still had a 65% winrate?.... I am not sure the gorge tunnel scenario in 267 was healthy or necessary.
@the_tick No, please read the changelog:
Reduced Advanced Armory cost from 30 to 20 team res.
Also, A reduction in armslab cost from 20 to 15 team res.
But.. if you were looking for GLs as the counter to bile, you're doing it wrong.
Oh and you can get that AA in 1:40
Oh and you can rush Exos and get them ~ 3 minute mark as well.
But none of that will help if multiple gorges can slip by your marines in the first few minutes.
also, 15 (biomass1) 20 (biomass2) 15 (bilebomb upgrade) is 50 to me... Also, I did the math on paper, pre 268 it was 20+30+30 agreed? 20 and 30 for the biomass and 30 for the gorge upgrades. which is 80 resources,
Starting resources is 60?
Maybe for 5 vs 5 or 6 vs 6 these changes are fine, but for 10 vs 10 + I can really see bad things happen once they know this is possible.
Rest assured that these changes are not 1-1 copies from the currently used (and experimental) version of CompMod. It is very, very, very unlikely that changes like HMG and phase-able exosuits will ever be in the vanilla version of the game.
Are balance changes drawn from CompMod? Yes, because arguably competitive matches achieve the closest testable circumstances of balanced matches that can be found. Are these changes pulled from CompMod with no regard for how they will impact public play? Absolutely not. The Australian community has been playing on v2 of CompMod for at least 3 months, at large player counts (10v10 and higher) with very positive results. The changes put into vanilla were drawn from both CompMod and things learned from the public Australian scene.
None of these changes were implemented just because they "sound like a good idea," but because they address real balance and fun concerns in public play.
As for this, I don't know how anyone can take such a situation and forget that if you're going from 2 Fades and 1 Skulk to 3 Fades and 3 Skulks, that you're going to have 6 other marines around. What are they doing in your situation? Phase gates are very strong in pubs simply due to the 'sheepherder effect' where everyone spawning phases immediately. You can't just pull one thing out and say "This! This isn't balanced!" You have to look at everything as a whole.
I don't think the CDT was ever intended to only make Quality-of-Life changes. I will say that all of the balance changes contained in this patch were discussed and approved by Charlie.
If anyone has any specific questions about why something was changed, please post and we'll try to address it. General "I don't like change" comments aren't very helpful to anyone.
1.) I don't like some changes.
2.) It wasn't made public that such drastic gameplay changes were going to be made (and certain balance elements)
3.) It's being forced on us right now, and a huge circlejerk of people are sticking with it and opposing any relevant argument on the subject.
If the makers of CombatMOD were apart of the CDT and suddenly CombatMOD changes were, silently worked in and forced, I'm pretty sure people would still be pissed.
These changes could have been made over a new workshop mod forked from compmod and given as a choice to server owners, then I'm pretty sure many people wouldn't be so "gosh-darn against change.". Instead, the CDT(&friends) kept getting upset over the difference of compmod and vanilla every time they joined a Hyperion server and felt it was a great idea to just push this entirely on everyone.
I played the entire last season(poorly) and loved some of the changes in compmod, only a few I hated and some I disliked. The thing is though, it was an option still to be played in vanilla or not.
Again, this is not about change, (Least, for most the relevant posts.) it's about the intentions and development path of the CDT currently.
So stop posting your stupid proverbs and quotes about change in a subtle attempt to say "fuck you" to everyone making a relevant complaint.
And yes, saying "I'm not happy with X being in Vanilla." is a relevant complaint and if you can't see why it is then maybe you should put more thought into it.
Because it is a public game, and people aren't always going to be standing by on phasegates. The 3 Skulks/3Fades now will take down the gate lightning fast in comparison to before. People aren't watching their map, thinking logically... You'll at most 2-3 people on the marine team that actually do.
They should be, since they give you insight on the community. Some don't like change, you like change. Why do people need to respect the latter instead of the former? Especially since, anything that isn't as plain as that comment is being completely shutdown and circlejerk voted down. Just look at my past posts so far. I'm sure with everyone being disagree voted that states something against this patch is just foaming at the mouth to post and just see several different people disagree their post and then have 1 person reply with a completely one-sided statement that will surely encourage them to voice their opinion again.
It's a pub, @IronHorse. Not everyone is going out of their way to plan logically/ahead. Least, I hope you were being sarcastic... Counter-arguments like this aren't helpful since you're expecting more from players than they usually give in public games.
Lightning fast in comparison to before? Fades do less damage to armored structures now than prior to 268. I'd venture to say that the phasegate would die less than 1 second faster than prior builds. Feel free to test it.
The fact is that 3 skulks and 3 fades on an unguarded gate will kill that gate. And further, they should kill that gate.
You're completely missing the point. Very general comments like "I don't like these changes" aren't helpful, because they cannot be addressed in any meaningful manner. Now if someone were to say "I don't like the reduced evolution timer for skulks," then I could respond with "This reduces the amount of time each skulk is required to spend in base on each spawn. More playtime with upgrades means more fun."
Specific feedback nets specific responses. General feedback eventually devolves into namecalling and ridicule, which you could already see happening in this thread.
I could say I dislike how prevalent alcohol is is American culture. Or I could say I dislike how prevalent alcohol is in American culture because I have seen the negative impact it has on people through all stages of life. Alcohol is easily abused and is culturally encouraged. It ought not be encouraged.
I should of used something from ns2 but that was on my mind but I feel my point was made.
Fades: stooop. revert to shadowstep fade movement, leave blink, get rid of stab and vortex or dont it doesnt matter, and leave metabolize. pleaseee.
or just stop making such huge sweeping changes every patch. it's causing massive player loss in the long term.
Yes, it is a bug
I'm not sure what you mean here. Skulks have all the tools at their disposal in order to combat unupgraded marines via ambushing and group engagements. Further, upgrades like carapace and celerity are cheaper and should be appearing earlier in the game, helping those early skulk engagements. The tiered bite cone was removed because:
1. Performance improved enough since its implementation that consistent biting is possible.
2. The varied damage dealt was confusing to players, new and old alike. Consistency in damage dealt is important.
The old shadowstep movement was fundamentally broken. You achieved insane bursts in speed for low energy cost, could move around the map at high rates of speed for low energy cost, and did not have to watch your energy usage in combat. In my opinion, blink is more fun as a movement mechanic from both sides of the field. You can do some impressive and versatile movement (at the cost of more energy) which makes you harder to hit, while at the same time being easier to hit if you decide not to expend the extra energy.
I'm fairly certain 'sweeping changes' aren't causing massive player loss. If you have any proof I would love to see it.
Is this the first time you've checked in since build 250 / a year ago? :-P
There's a difference between not liking change because it's change, and not liking change for specific reasons. Going onto forums and simply saying "I don't like this change" and not giving any reasons as to why you don't like it isn't constructive and doesn't help anyone. It's just pointless complaining that serves no one.
If you came and said "I dislike this change because..." and then gave specific reasons why you don't like it, people would take you more seriously. If, for example, you said that you disliked the changes to the exos because you preferred them to be more mobile and less damaging, then you're at least coming here with a legitimate, well-formed argument. I wouldn't agree with you, and neither would a lot of people, but at least you'd be starting an actual discussion.
If you just come here and say "I don't like this because it changes things," how do you expect people to respond? It makes you sound like you're blindly against change of any kind, regardless of what it is.