Build 268 Live on Steam - Natural Selection 2

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  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer Posts: 4,177 Advanced user
    Tachi wrote: »
    Commander can't see anymore how much ammo soldier has. It's always displays as soldier is at full ammo capacity.
    Can you post a screenshot?

  • RapGodRapGod Not entirely sure... Join Date: 2013-11-12 Member: 189322Members Posts: 799 Fully active user
    I've been able to see some alien structures like the hive later in the game (as a marine comms). I'll see if I can get any screenshots. It was on summit n I could see the hive on the minimap of the hive in data (and the old crevice deal).
    Don't ever ''get ban''.

    Respect - Justice

    If my posts don't make sense, blame it on my bipolar and carry on. It happens.
  • SupremeThroneXSupremeThroneX Join Date: 2013-03-20 Member: 184093Members Posts: 23
    So on the armor changes, i get that you guys did it for fade. However, I feel you guys completely forgot about Bile bomb all together.

    It seems like it will be OP again.
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members Posts: 728 Advanced user
    edited August 2014
    I'll just leave my 2 cents here for what it's worth...

    I've only played about a dozen or so games since the new build, and so far I'm not liking a few things...

    For starters I never cared for servers that start you with only 15 Pres as I feel it only hurts early game Gorges, which are already so weak to begin with. I thought it was bad enough when Gorges were upped from 5 Pres to 8... and now our starting Pres is lower, making it even worse... It's nice that babblers are available at the start now, but since they cost 1 Pres each you can't really use them right away, especially if you drop a tunnel. This change has pretty much guaranteed that I will never go Gorge early game again.

    Secondly is the change to structure cost... With how cheap the AA, Proto, and Arms lab are now, combined with how the Alien upgrades seem to take longer and cost more now.... yeah it's bad. Most of the dozen or so games I played since this build had Marines with Jetpacks and Shotguns before Aliens could even get bile... Jetpacks feel stupidly overpowered if you don't have either Leap, or really good Lerks/Fades on your team. From what I've seen so far it seems completely impossible for Aliens to get Leap by the time Marines can have JP's.


    I'll have to play more but so far it just feels like the changes to res give Marines an insanely huge buff, while Aliens get beat into the ground with the nerf bat.
  • SebSeb Melbourne, AU Join Date: 2013-04-01 Member: 184576Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Retired Community Developer Posts: 514 mod
    edited August 2014
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    For starters I never cared for servers that start you with only 15 Pres as I feel it only hurts early game Gorges, which are already so weak to begin with. I thought it was bad enough when Gorges were upped from 5 Pres to 8... and now our starting Pres is lower, making it even worse... It's nice that babblers are available at the start now, but since they cost 1 Pres each you can't really use them right away, especially if you drop a tunnel. This change has pretty much guaranteed that I will never go Gorge early game again.
    So what exactly is the problem? Gorge is 8 pres, 2 tunnels are 8 pres so you don't have to wait very long to drop the 2nd tunnel. Gorge is still incredibly strong, and I'm certain that this res change doesn't impact its viability.
    Secondly is the change to structure cost... With how cheap the AA, Proto, and Arms lab are now, combined with how the Alien upgrades seem to take longer and cost more now.... yeah it's bad. Most of the dozen or so games I played since this build had Marines with Jetpacks and Shotguns before Aliens could even get bile... Jetpacks feel stupidly overpowered if you don't have either Leap, or really good Lerks/Fades on your team. From what I've seen so far it seems completely impossible for Aliens to get Leap by the time Marines can have JP's.
    It all comes down to who is commanding and what their strategy is. With the new decoupling of upgrades on structures, it is actually quicker AND easier to get those upgrades, however, the commander actually has to have the intention of going down that tech path. I think there are more options for strats now then there were last build.

    For example, you can get fast leap really easily by fast dropping a 2nd hive, having a gorge or 2 build it quickly while biomass 2 is researching on the 1st hive. 2nd hive will be up soon, so once biomass 2 is done and the 2nd hive is done, research the 4th biomass (1 biomass with hive automatically) and then leap after that! You can do this in about 3-5 minutes depending on how much res and how many gorges you have. Again, on the marine side it usually takes 14-18 minutes to have jetpacks unless they are specifically on a tech path for jetpacks.

    Basically upgrades seem to take longer because you research them individually, but if your comm is on top of it and knows what they are doing, it can be quicker and more purposeful.
    Post edited by Seb on
    IronHorseelodea
  • RunkiRunki Helsingborg, Sweden Join Date: 2012-12-02 Member: 173929Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 56
    Anyone having problems with joining servers?
    I've tried to verify game cache but it does not help.
    I took a screen shot of what my console does, from start of game to being denied into servers, let me know if theres something i should censure as it looks pretty harmless to me.
    9/10 servers i can't join because of this, and right now I can't join any servers at all:

    jPwkEw9.png
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer Posts: 2,557 mod
    Disable your client side mods in the mod menu, that should solve your issue.
    Ollj: "ns_napo, the first good custom map ever" ns_napo
    Narfwak
  • PelargirPelargir Join Date: 2013-07-02 Member: 185857Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Forum staff Posts: 1,199 mod
    edited August 2014
    EDIT: Asraniel answered.
    "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"

    "However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results."


  • RunkiRunki Helsingborg, Sweden Join Date: 2012-12-02 Member: 173929Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 56
    Asraniel wrote: »
    Disable your client side mods in the mod menu, that should solve your issue.

    I did go into my "mods" and found one mod to be active, even though it was not subscribed to.
    I couldn't turn it off so i went into the roaming folder and deleted it. But it still appears in the mods meny after a restart.

    656Y3WD.png

    Heres an image to show I do not subscribe to any mods, my entire list are server-mods forced onto me.

    Wbjb76Y.png

    Whenever i join a server, this pops up. And then i receive the same message.

    lOOyT0S.png
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer Posts: 2,557 mod
    As you can see in the list, the game indeed knows you are not subscribed too. They are still installed of course.

    You can disable the mod by clicking in the "Yes" text in the list where it says that its active. Restart your ns2 and you should be fine.
    Ollj: "ns_napo, the first good custom map ever" ns_napo
    Narfwak
  • RunkiRunki Helsingborg, Sweden Join Date: 2012-12-02 Member: 173929Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 56
    Asraniel wrote: »
    As you can see in the list, the game indeed knows you are not subscribed too. They are still installed of course.

    You can disable the mod by clicking in the "Yes" text in the list where it says that its active. Restart your ns2 and you should be fine.

    Yes that fixed it, thanks. I cannot believe I didn't just try and click it..
    Glad I showed you the mod menu isn't idiot proof.
    ATF
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members Posts: 728 Advanced user
    edited August 2014
    sebb wrote: »
    So what exactly is the problem? Gorge is 8 pres, 2 tunnels are 8 pres so you don't have to wait very long to drop the 2nd tunnel. Gorge is still incredibly strong, and I'm certain that this res change doesn't impact its viability.

    You have to wait... plus you can't drop that one hydra after getting the tunnel up... Oh and if you want babblers that's 3 Pres so even more waiting... I dunno maybe I just dislike having to rely entirely 110% on Skulks protecting my tunnel without even being able to help with a single hydra...

    Maybe if I was a competitive level player who could easily kill Marines as a Gorge I wouldn't care, but as a lowly pubber I'm not that good, and having to rely entirely on your team's skill and teamwork to defend a tunnel you spent all your Pres on... well it just plain sucks. (Especially when not enough Skulks on your team respond, you die and the tunnel goes down... might as well just start the game with 0 Pres)
    sebb wrote: »
    You can do this in about 3-5 minutes depending on how much res and how many gorges you have. Again, on the marine side it usually takes 14-18 minutes to have jetpacks unless they are specifically on a tech path for jetpacks.

    I can't find it right now but I think I saw one of the CDT guys mention somewhere that Marines can have jetpacks in under 2 minutes... It is beyond impossible to have Leap by that time.. 14-18 minutes sounds like what it used to take for Jetpacks to go up.

    As I said I'll have to play more, but if JP's can go up by the 2 minute mark that means AA is also up, and in the 1200+ hours I've played this game I think I could count on one hand the number of times I've seen a JP + GL/FT rush stopped without either leap, or a really good lerk/fade player on the team.

    Slorrinns2isgood
  • Mattk50Mattk50 Join Date: 2013-02-04 Member: 182824Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 264 Fully active user
    edited August 2014
    IronHorse wrote: »
    "Sweeping changes every patch" ????.......
    Is this the first time you've checked in since build 250 / a year ago? :-P

    hurr

    point is. stop changing things unless you've done the design groundwork first. A lot of changes feel like stuff some guy just threw in because he thought it might be a good idea. And it keeps happening, no, not every patch, but with enough frequency that every 2-3 months you come back to this game and you need to relearn half of it. A lot of the things i liked about NS2 keep getting picked off too, its irritating.

    The point is, if you've had to change things back and fourth this much my argument is already made for this design process being fucked.
    Slorrin
  • OtsOts Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18577Members, Constellation Posts: 780 Fully active user
    edited August 2014
    Mattk50 wrote: »
    The point is, if you've had to change things back and fourth this much my argument is already made for this design process being fucked.

    I could not agree with this more, that's why i'm happy it's being worked on by people who actually play the game now. Not sure why you aren't.

    Also, that's a pretty tough thing to say about 'groundwork', I'd dare you to debate the design with the CDT as you clearly feel like you have a better grasp than they do.
    NordicSeb
  • WebtranceWebtrance US Join Date: 2013-11-08 Member: 189165Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 63 Advanced user
    Holy crap..I was playing the other night and a Lerk came around the corner sounding like and F-35 and scared the shit out of me! Maybe nerf the glide sound a touch - pre 268?

    Seriously though, I'm not going to post stats or net logs, but I've experienced more crashes with 268 than any other patch in the last two years. The menu and server browser freeze where nothing can be selected. The fix is to open the console and type exit. Sometimes when selecting "training" then trying to select sandbox, you cannot click through and select the map you want in the sandbox...again, as if the menu is frozen or there's some UI glitch. This actually started happening to me in build 267. Alt-tabbing is broke as well. When bringing up the game after alt-tabbing, the UI basically freezes up to the point you can't even select a server, if you can even select the server browser in the first place. This happens fullscreen/fullscreen windowed/windowed.

    These UI bugs are the most critical in my view.
  • KungFuJVKungFuJV Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15167Members Posts: 148 Fully active user
    edited August 2014
    I have a legitimate question about the path of the game. What is being done with the state of grenade launchers?

    It's obviously not a problem in 6v6, but in higher player games it's a problem for aliens.

    There are already several topics/posts about it, so I know people know about it.

    P.s. - making it cost 5 more pres doesn't change the fact they obliterate all lifeforms except onos
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Posts: 8,191 admin
    @MoFo1‌
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    You have to wait... plus you can't drop that one hydra after getting the tunnel up... Oh and if you want babblers that's 3 Pres so even more waiting... I dunno maybe I just dislike having to rely entirely 110% on Skulks protecting my tunnel without even being able to help with a single hydra...
    No, you don't have to wait... in fact you can get both sides of a tunnel up in the same amount of time you've always been able to. (within a minute)
    I tested twice yesterday, you can drop the 2nd tunnel EXACTLY at the 1 minute mark with just the starting RT.

    The only difference in timing is that if the comm hasn't begun expanding his RTs right away you might have to wait a few moments before putting up that hydra.
    Relying on teamwork to secure your very early game fortified map control is a good requirement to have..

    @Mattk50‌
    Balance has not been changed in a whole year. So I don't know why you're having to re learn the game "every 2 months"?

    @Webtrance‌
    Lerk glide sound has not been changed in vanilla NS2... you probably were on a modded server using the latest Comp Mod.
    If you can, please run techsupport.exe when NS2 crashes for you, keep that NS2 window open even if its black when doing so. This will create a large zip file for you to link to us so we can fix any crashes you may be experiencing.
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
    Narfwak
  • ritualsacrificeritualsacrifice Join Date: 2012-11-14 Member: 171148Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 709 Advanced user
    MoFo1 wrote: »

    You have to wait... plus you can't drop that one hydra after getting the tunnel up... Oh and if you want babblers that's 3 Pres so even more waiting... I dunno maybe I just dislike having to rely entirely 110% on Skulks protecting my tunnel without even being able to help with a single hydra...

    Bring another gorge with you. You drop the tunnel, he drops the hydras, and you got 20 clogs to work with. Problem solved. #teamwork
    soccerguy243
  • Cannon_FodderAUSCannon_FodderAUS Brisbane, AU Join Date: 2013-06-23 Member: 185664Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 877 Advanced user
    So much good discussion on the forums. Big kudos to the guys (and gals) ( @IronHorse‌ @Sebb @Zefram‌ @Blrg @Asraniel‌ @Pelargir‌ @SantaClaws‌ @Golden‌ @Blarney_Stone‌ ) for answering questions and being civil about it all. I play in Australian servers (pub only), so have lived with compMod changes for a bit now. It doesn't change the fundamental of the game for the commanders (just remember to use the hive to get your abilities). Over all, I feel the game is more back and forth with compMod. Here is what I like about the 268 patch :

    -Cheaper lifeforms : this allows aliens that lose their life forms to evolve it again. Previous, on a average length game for me (15-20min), you lose your lerk early, or fade early, the game is over. Now it is possible to have come backs because you can get those life forms again.

    -decoupled research : Really really hate to have to drop a random unneeded whip to get leap (wtf). It also allows more strategic selection of what abilities to get mid game: eg. bile is never skipped, but do you go for leap at biomass 4 or save for lerk spores for that area of deny because you have 2 lerks?

    -less HP on tunnels. God, early multiple tunnels with crag was a freaking nightmare to take down (would take 3-4 marines on W0 2-3 clips each to kill it, while battling skulks). Pre-268, it was a case of losing map control as marine but having later higher lifeforms (fades) popping that will pretty much win the game for aliens (marines can't win with no res, but its a slow grind as the lifeforms are waiting for res). Now it will be much better. If aliens go multiple tunnels all over the map with crag, it can't all be defended at once due to lower health, so it is more strategic.

    other changes will have to play and see.

    That is the trouble with people complaining about the changes already, it has been PT, but we pubbers HAVEN'T played it enough yet to comment on how it will work in pubs. With the CDT so active in patching the game, if a change they thought would work well is just not working, it can always be taken out or tweaked. Lets leave the whinge til next week so you can experience the change in game play and then at least you can rant and give the story of why you hate the change or why it is imbalance.

    Author of a ePaper manual for NS2, now also a steam guide
    Co-wrote the Marine EXO Suit Protocol
    ATFSebPelargirBlrg
  • KalopsiaKalopsia Join Date: 2003-05-15 Member: 16331Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 502 Advanced user
    -less HP on tunnels. God, early multiple tunnels with crag was a freaking nightmare to take down (would take 3-4 marines on W0 2-3 clips each to kill it, while battling skulks). Pre-268, it was a case of losing map control as marine but having later higher lifeforms (fades) popping that will pretty much win the game for aliens (marines can't win with no res, but its a slow grind as the lifeforms are waiting for res). Now it will be much better. If aliens go multiple tunnels all over the map with crag, it can't all be defended at once due to lower health, so it is more strategic.

    Heya @Cannon_FodderAUS‌

    This is really my only gripe with the new build. Yes the reworking of the res system is annoying having everything changed without communicating to everyone why it had to change, but it has its benefits which you mentioned. Why oh why did they have to nerf the $hit out of tunnels? That change was completely unnecessary. Now it only takes 12 seconds for a single marine to take down an alien route. Minus 5-6 seconds for an alien to try and get through the tunnel to defend, now you have 6 seconds left to respond and lets hope you are near the tunnel to start with otherwise don't bother.

    The Australian servers are still running compmod on top of build 268 so we can't really give the new build a thorough testing unless we join the West Coast servers.

    - Kalopsia
    ns2_nothing remake Thread | Workshop
    ns2_waterdome Thread | Workshop

    Kalopsia Lerk Play Videos
  • OtsOts Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18577Members, Constellation Posts: 780 Fully active user
    SantaClaws wrote: »
    @MoFo1‌ How you think one hydra is going to save you is beyond my comprehension.
    Don't be trippin mon, you know everyones gonna skip town at the sight of hydra.

    HAIL HYDRA.
    Seb
  • OtsOts Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18577Members, Constellation Posts: 780 Fully active user
    IronHorse wrote: »
    If you can, please run techsupport.exe when NS2 crashes for you, keep that NS2 window open even if its black when doing so. This will create a large zip file for you to link to us so we can fix any crashes you may be experiencing.
    Is this exe different than the usual "bug report sending" thing that prompts up when ns2 crashes? Cause that thing just crashes for me too, which is somewhat.. frustrating.
  • RapGodRapGod Not entirely sure... Join Date: 2013-11-12 Member: 189322Members Posts: 799 Fully active user
    edited August 2014
    Techsupport.exe is in your ns2 folder, I believe.
    Don't ever ''get ban''.

    Respect - Justice

    If my posts don't make sense, blame it on my bipolar and carry on. It happens.
  • Cannon_FodderAUSCannon_FodderAUS Brisbane, AU Join Date: 2013-06-23 Member: 185664Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 877 Advanced user
    @Kalopsia‌ you make a good point about the tunnel being more fragile. Can someone confirm if tunnels "mature" and get more armor and HP?. What I find in pub games is with the previous resource model (20 start pRes), a gorge could evolve, drop tunnels and get 2-3 hydras very quickly. This is great for aliens as you get some rudimentary defence for your tunnel as a single gorge (but that is also OP because you have just got a fast travel route and could hold your own against a marine or two). Now, you NEED to have a skulk or two with you when you drop the tunnel or it will go down which means you are conceding early harass and map control else where (makes for a more to and fro game). The great deciding factor in all of this is engagements still, if you can't hold a tunnel with 2 skulks + 1 gorge against 2 marines, then an alien loss if probably going to happen (remember you can clog to protect the tunnel from being sniped from across the room.
    A great example is Falls in Biodome. Gorge tunnel to the Fall res, clog up and put 3 hydras down comm drops a crag, and you can sit pretty unless 4-5 marines push you (even then, your reinforcements could probably hold that).
    Author of a ePaper manual for NS2, now also a steam guide
    Co-wrote the Marine EXO Suit Protocol
    Kalopsia
  • RapGodRapGod Not entirely sure... Join Date: 2013-11-12 Member: 189322Members Posts: 799 Fully active user
    Perhaps shorten the inside of the tunnel? I can see this being used against aliens, but shouldn't be much.
    Don't ever ''get ban''.

    Respect - Justice

    If my posts don't make sense, blame it on my bipolar and carry on. It happens.
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