I think they should just release many small incremental patches (possibly optional to the server).
Things like the Marine gun jamming bug have probably been among a first bugs fixed, just not released. Everyone on the community here believes the game is going to get better/fixed at some point in time. But in my honest opinion we've been let down more than a few times. In terms of feedback, bug fixes, major game changers and certainly performance. Many years ago I remember they told us they developed the game on an ATI 2600XT, so it would run fine with current (at that time) mid range hardware, I had an ATI 2600XT back then and the pre alpha release ran sluggishly with just you. Ever since I upgraded by computer a couple of months ago I have been stacking up more and more kills, but what about those running lesser rigs. The new update has hindered my performance gain somewhat and friends are only ever moaning to me about things not working right/problems in the game.
For a company which isn't ruining their game (will have to see in the long run) with a ca$h $hop pay 2 win type philosophy, I'm inclined to be patient to wait for the fixes. But as a coder, I really wish I could find some documentation for their API and have more comments in the code itself. Perhaps an entire "pure" mode should be introduced, in the form of a module replicating the LUA code in the engines native language. We saw luajit increase performance drastically for those with CPU bottlenecks, this would possibly even go a couple of performance steps beyond this.
I think they should just release many small incremental patches (possibly optional to the server).
Releasing small patches quickly is actually more difficult than large patches. It requires vast amounts of testing all the time to make sure a showstopper doesn't creep in.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
Jeah, can't wait for 256 to come out i'm already having tons of fun with 255, and with all the stuff potentially getting fixed with 256 (and surely the following releases also) this is going to be epic
I tend to think that once you start selling a game, the beta testing should end, for the consumer. Yet the experience I've had at the end of August was, well, I'm trying to forgive you. I didn't know anything about the supporter hat/skin sell and I think it's a huge difference between black armor. I learned of the black armor soon after I bought the game. I took it as those who are the limited number who brought this game to me. Seeing, the now extra, supporter hat/skin stuff, added less than a year after release, is a major break in uniform that I already accepted. While it might have already been in development, It is development I feel I bought already. So, to me, the supporter hat/skin stuff is dirty looking. I'm not trying to effect support or lack of support. I really am taking issue with how much of "my" game is mine. The pay once, play forever; is it too much to ask for in the 21 century? I've been bashed already for choking on the reinforced. I was told that I should appreciate what was given to me, free by people whom donated. That expectation is getting nerving. Hugh's live feed did mention very close to what I nearly speak, but hard for me to pick apart completely. Maybe I need to watch it again: Anyway I do applaude communication. It could be pushed through the game's main menu instead. I'm not too far from the topic I hope: the bugs before reinforcement wasn't noticable. So, lets go back and wait for devs to catch up. Maybe, without using unwiling consumers as beta testers for the spark engine? I could be that I'm just one of the greedy it's mine 'ers who would keep the game away from F2P system with microtransaction. I believe I do get the point on why it can't do that if anyone can. I just want to point out that I don't want it to continue down that path. Bugs? I'll agree to play the version without them. ...also I am sory if I'm not sympathetic to any money hardships that might be going on that I don't know about. They really do come from all angles.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2013
"The pay once, play forever; is it too much to ask for in the 21 century?"
@exalt
NS2 will always pay once play forever though Reinforced is true free DLC, with an option to donate money for non-game altering customisations, if they did anything close to what other games do in terms of DLC. It would simply fracture the community into groups that cannot play with each other...
I think we are blaming ourselves here. We're not blaming anyone else in the blog post, unless I misread it. We screwed up, and we do apologize. We hope you'll come back to the game and find it fixed up. Believe me, as engineers and craftsmen, we take no pride in releasing sub-par product.
This is hardly new though, this has been brewing for months and months. Look through the tech support forums at posts from April to now. Im not the most proliferate of forum posters. Ive lost my old logon, gone to the winds of disposable Hotmail accounts. I remember NS1 from the beta days, I used to run LAN parties in St Helens Sea cadet hut. I remember battlefield 1942 being released and played exclusively - except in our November LAN party we played TFC, action half life and new NS mod. I was hooked from that day forward. It pains me to dislike NS2. I even logged onto mavicks server last night; the same weekend I say i'm done! And I hated the experience; I thought my mouse was faulty, I needed to go to http://unixpapa.com/js/testmouse.html to test it. I have an i5 machine packing a 6850 with a Samsung 840 SSD. Basically it plays like shit.
Why for the love of god would any sane person release an untested product on the eve of a marketing exercise? Half the servers were crippled by memory leaks. The other half were full of stuttering newbies who couldn't bite strafe dodging pistol whippers. Never mind trying to find a khamm who was competent with undocumented features and guesswork. Newbies simply had instructional videos that were utterly wrong to the point of misleading.
Speaking of servers I did make a server once (granted 249 days although I understand it is *worse* now) on our R710. It is a replicated hyper-V machine granted but I gave it 8gb RAM (with scope to grab another 8GB if it needed). I also gave it a share of up to 4 of the 12 3ghz cores. It uses SAS SAN rather than iSCSI so is a little quicker and is no slouch in the latency department never mind raw access speed (I believe that LUN is an 8 drive RAID 10). In short it was bloody awful. 16 players was enough to lag out late game. It rarely used 2 cores fully certainly not 4. RAM usage cached the 8gb rather than use it. I used windows 7 as the guest OS. I have no idea how people afford to run a server for NS as I reckon our R710 was probably cheaper than a set of i7s doing the same thing when technically our R710 could have run at least 4 32 man TF2 servers (our leased fibre is a 10mb on 100mb bearer)
I also understand development cycles and programming and I also understand working to a shoestring along with unrealistic deadlines. I work for a small 12 man (+ 2 women!) company developing waste gas appliances for farms. I have 2 hats, one is the head the design & implementation team that build shit monitors (slurry to be precise) - glorified PLC devices really. The other is IT systems manager (i'm an engineer by trade but can equally plan deployment). We too don't get paid for development (failed or successful), only sales. We too cannot afford for things to go wrong. We ensure bugs are fixed before shipping. We too have a wishlist for features. But we ensure bugs are fixed before developing. We too have test sites and I understand test sites do not always reproduce field errors but bug fixing is a priority. Why? Because if people lose faith they go elsewhere and being a somewhat niche product we cannot afford to lose customers or invite bad press.
Look at Kerberos. SOTS had a rabid following. SOTS2? Well, go read the forums; do you think many would pre purchase SOTS3? I love NS. I love the premise, the game, the promise. I will keep coming back because im an addict, not because I want to.
is a good step u recoigneze u fail. I forgive u. Btw was evident and from fools dont.
I think reinforcement would be good update. I like the game keep renewing with new content coz in 2 or 3 weeks hardcore players keep boring of the same, need new maps and content, but for the next time, do a lil more beta test ;-)
ths
wish all go good for uwe and we keep seeing more games even ns3 in a future
greets
A single NS2 server should not be able to run on two cores at the same time as the process only has a single thread. 1 thread can only run in 1 core.
If I recall Matso correctly, the server can use 1.5 cores. It's just most people tend to force it to one core only. The client can use 2.5 cores I believe.
We're testing [256] now. Trying to get to the bottom of Rubber-banding. If anyone has any leads or ideas to when/how this is happening, please post here or PM me. Thanks!
is a good step u recoigneze u fail. I forgive u. Btw was evident and from fools dont.
offtopic:
everytime i see you, i think... oh god, not this guy again...
you really need to learn to talk to people in a neutral way, especially ingame.
you are anonymous on the internet, but thats no reason to abuse somebody
(everytime i see you using the ingame chat) in the hardest way.
maybe you think a little bit about it.
only a suggestion in neutral, not bashing way!
you´re the reason i would like to have an: ingame mute text-chat option
@build256: can we expect some editor / SDK bugfixes ?
btw: i heard the editor browser cache initialization with the black thumbnails got fixed... right ?
@exalt
NS2 will always pay once play forever though Reinforced is true free DLC, with an option to donate money for non-game altering customisations, if they did anything close to what other games do in terms of DLC. It would simply fracture the community into groups that cannot play with each other...[/quote]
True, but free DLC shouldn't make a game worse. I'm just bummed that I'm treading through unfinished work. Then also bummed that I'm looking at what to me $eems like glitter added in. The game was way more "cool" before. The introduction of a support system inside a game I paid for, to me, is cheap. It's just hard to accept "free" when I was happier before. When the bugs go away, as I hope they will, I will deal with the glitter. I hope the game doesn't expand further that way though. I meet my price for a game, and then I buy some steak. Others have more money than I, nothing new. It is just something I like to escape from, into a world of gamers.
Jest servers FL (most local to me) seems to have the less buggy performance for me than anywhere else. Performance issues for other servers that I had visited before seem to suffer as more players join and further into the game clock counts. Which kinda leads me to think that many servers need to upgrade or reduce the number of players. Maybe TH will fix instead.
We're testing [256] now. Trying to get to the bottom of Rubber-banding. If anyone has any leads or ideas to when/how this is happening, please post here or PM me. Thanks!
Sorry to bother everyone but I need help and I didn't find a topic to help me
My framerate drop drastically when attacking a hive or when there is a lot of players fighting. It go from 35-40 to about 10. The thing is that I should easily be able to play the game.
Sorry to bother everyone but I need help and I didn't find a topic to help me
My framerate drop drastically when attacking a hive or when there is a lot of players fighting. It go from 35-40 to about 10. The thing is that I should easily be able to play the game.
My laptop specs:
Intel core i7- 4700MQ 2,40GHz
8 GB of ram
GTX 765m NVIDIA video card
Running on window 8 with directX11
and I use a Wifi connection of 72Mbits/s.
1.) Make sure to switch the game to DX9.
2.) Make sure you play with fullscreen (not windowed!)
3.) Be sure to deactivate every mod you have
4.) Be sure to play only on servers that can keep up the tick-rate.
On the last point: When a server can't hold its tick-rate, it can't send you enough updates. Than your client will have to predict the updates. This costs horrendous CPU-time. Your 2.4 GHz are not much. You may feel FPS loss in such situations. As rule of thumb you shouldn't play on servers with more than 20 players. They tend to break down in the end game. You can see the tick rate with "net_stats" in console.
I believe the source of the rubberbanding are the reinforced badges.
It seems the ns2 servers trying to contact the badge-server @ connect and during the match nonstop.
Server-console is spamming lua errors about missing badges and the badges disapear from scoreboard from time to time.
I deactivated the reinforced-badges for testing on our server and it seems running better.
But maybe thats not the reason, im not 100% sure.
@build256: can we expect some editor / SDK bugfixes ?
btw: i heard the editor browser cache initialization with the black thumbnails got fixed... right ?
They will get to it soon hopefully. I've been gently nudging them about it. :P
I believe the source of the rubberbanding are the reinforced badges.
It seems the ns2 servers trying to contact the badge-server @ connect and during the match nonstop.
Server-console is spamming lua errors about missing badges and the badges disapear from scoreboard from time to time.
I deactivated the reinforced-badges for testing on our server and it seems running better.
But maybe thats not the reason, im not 100% sure.
This does explain why badges keep appearing and disappearing every minute or so.
Comments
Still love you long time UWE
Things like the Marine gun jamming bug have probably been among a first bugs fixed, just not released. Everyone on the community here believes the game is going to get better/fixed at some point in time. But in my honest opinion we've been let down more than a few times. In terms of feedback, bug fixes, major game changers and certainly performance. Many years ago I remember they told us they developed the game on an ATI 2600XT, so it would run fine with current (at that time) mid range hardware, I had an ATI 2600XT back then and the pre alpha release ran sluggishly with just you. Ever since I upgraded by computer a couple of months ago I have been stacking up more and more kills, but what about those running lesser rigs. The new update has hindered my performance gain somewhat and friends are only ever moaning to me about things not working right/problems in the game.
For a company which isn't ruining their game (will have to see in the long run) with a ca$h $hop pay 2 win type philosophy, I'm inclined to be patient to wait for the fixes. But as a coder, I really wish I could find some documentation for their API and have more comments in the code itself. Perhaps an entire "pure" mode should be introduced, in the form of a module replicating the LUA code in the engines native language. We saw luajit increase performance drastically for those with CPU bottlenecks, this would possibly even go a couple of performance steps beyond this.
Releasing small patches quickly is actually more difficult than large patches. It requires vast amounts of testing all the time to make sure a showstopper doesn't creep in.
@exalt
NS2 will always pay once play forever though
This is hardly new though, this has been brewing for months and months. Look through the tech support forums at posts from April to now. Im not the most proliferate of forum posters. Ive lost my old logon, gone to the winds of disposable Hotmail accounts. I remember NS1 from the beta days, I used to run LAN parties in St Helens Sea cadet hut. I remember battlefield 1942 being released and played exclusively - except in our November LAN party we played TFC, action half life and new NS mod. I was hooked from that day forward. It pains me to dislike NS2. I even logged onto mavicks server last night; the same weekend I say i'm done! And I hated the experience; I thought my mouse was faulty, I needed to go to http://unixpapa.com/js/testmouse.html to test it. I have an i5 machine packing a 6850 with a Samsung 840 SSD. Basically it plays like shit.
Why for the love of god would any sane person release an untested product on the eve of a marketing exercise? Half the servers were crippled by memory leaks. The other half were full of stuttering newbies who couldn't bite strafe dodging pistol whippers. Never mind trying to find a khamm who was competent with undocumented features and guesswork. Newbies simply had instructional videos that were utterly wrong to the point of misleading.
Speaking of servers I did make a server once (granted 249 days although I understand it is *worse* now) on our R710. It is a replicated hyper-V machine granted but I gave it 8gb RAM (with scope to grab another 8GB if it needed). I also gave it a share of up to 4 of the 12 3ghz cores. It uses SAS SAN rather than iSCSI so is a little quicker and is no slouch in the latency department never mind raw access speed (I believe that LUN is an 8 drive RAID 10). In short it was bloody awful. 16 players was enough to lag out late game. It rarely used 2 cores fully certainly not 4. RAM usage cached the 8gb rather than use it. I used windows 7 as the guest OS. I have no idea how people afford to run a server for NS as I reckon our R710 was probably cheaper than a set of i7s doing the same thing when technically our R710 could have run at least 4 32 man TF2 servers (our leased fibre is a 10mb on 100mb bearer)
I also understand development cycles and programming and I also understand working to a shoestring along with unrealistic deadlines. I work for a small 12 man (+ 2 women!) company developing waste gas appliances for farms. I have 2 hats, one is the head the design & implementation team that build shit monitors (slurry to be precise) - glorified PLC devices really. The other is IT systems manager (i'm an engineer by trade but can equally plan deployment). We too don't get paid for development (failed or successful), only sales. We too cannot afford for things to go wrong. We ensure bugs are fixed before shipping. We too have a wishlist for features. But we ensure bugs are fixed before developing. We too have test sites and I understand test sites do not always reproduce field errors but bug fixing is a priority. Why? Because if people lose faith they go elsewhere and being a somewhat niche product we cannot afford to lose customers or invite bad press.
Look at Kerberos. SOTS had a rabid following. SOTS2? Well, go read the forums; do you think many would pre purchase SOTS3? I love NS. I love the premise, the game, the promise. I will keep coming back because im an addict, not because I want to.
I think reinforcement would be good update. I like the game keep renewing with new content coz in 2 or 3 weeks hardcore players keep boring of the same, need new maps and content, but for the next time, do a lil more beta test ;-)
ths
wish all go good for uwe and we keep seeing more games even ns3 in a future
greets
If I recall Matso correctly, the server can use 1.5 cores. It's just most people tend to force it to one core only. The client can use 2.5 cores I believe.
We're testing [256] now. Trying to get to the bottom of Rubber-banding. If anyone has any leads or ideas to when/how this is happening, please post here or PM me. Thanks!
offtopic:
you really need to learn to talk to people in a neutral way, especially ingame.
you are anonymous on the internet, but thats no reason to abuse somebody
(everytime i see you using the ingame chat) in the hardest way.
maybe you think a little bit about it.
only a suggestion in neutral, not bashing way!
you´re the reason i would like to have an: ingame mute text-chat option
@build256: can we expect some editor / SDK bugfixes ?
btw: i heard the editor browser cache initialization with the black thumbnails got fixed... right ?
NS2 will always pay once play forever though
True, but free DLC shouldn't make a game worse. I'm just bummed that I'm treading through unfinished work. Then also bummed that I'm looking at what to me $eems like glitter added in. The game was way more "cool" before. The introduction of a support system inside a game I paid for, to me, is cheap. It's just hard to accept "free" when I was happier before. When the bugs go away, as I hope they will, I will deal with the glitter. I hope the game doesn't expand further that way though. I meet my price for a game, and then I buy some steak. Others have more money than I, nothing new. It is just something I like to escape from, into a world of gamers.
Jest servers FL (most local to me) seems to have the less buggy performance for me than anywhere else. Performance issues for other servers that I had visited before seem to suffer as more players join and further into the game clock counts. Which kinda leads me to think that many servers need to upgrade or reduce the number of players. Maybe TH will fix instead.
...and it happened AGAIN
Good luck with the new build
way to inspire confidence guys
My framerate drop drastically when attacking a hive or when there is a lot of players fighting. It go from 35-40 to about 10. The thing is that I should easily be able to play the game.
My laptop specs:
Intel core i7- 4700MQ 2,40GHz
8 GB of ram
GTX 765m NVIDIA video card
Running on window 8 with directX11
and I use a Wifi connection of 72Mbits/s.
Im believe in UWE team and NS2
Shaky Cam, Slowmo and Inception Horn everytime you see an Alien
If you are referring to all the different post about framerate drop, I did, but there is no clear answer (or maybe I didn't saw it).
There is the one where you ask for a picture (PROFILE COMMAND) http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2074238/#Comment_2074238
But I can't make it work for some reason and I can't see how this would help me.
1.) Make sure to switch the game to DX9.
2.) Make sure you play with fullscreen (not windowed!)
3.) Be sure to deactivate every mod you have
4.) Be sure to play only on servers that can keep up the tick-rate.
On the last point: When a server can't hold its tick-rate, it can't send you enough updates. Than your client will have to predict the updates. This costs horrendous CPU-time. Your 2.4 GHz are not much. You may feel FPS loss in such situations. As rule of thumb you shouldn't play on servers with more than 20 players. They tend to break down in the end game. You can see the tick rate with "net_stats" in console.
I believe the source of the rubberbanding are the reinforced badges.
It seems the ns2 servers trying to contact the badge-server @ connect and during the match nonstop.
Server-console is spamming lua errors about missing badges and the badges disapear from scoreboard from time to time.
I deactivated the reinforced-badges for testing on our server and it seems running better.
But maybe thats not the reason, im not 100% sure.
May i add-
After lightning , thunder and raining, house burning down, car exploding >>> Always have rainbow
Should i be getting that Thursday feeling shortly or are those Monday morning blues on the way ?
They will get to it soon hopefully. I've been gently nudging them about it. :P
This does explain why badges keep appearing and disappearing every minute or so.