AdambeanCardiff, South WalesJoin Date: 2005-06-03Member: 53038Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
Many members of the team took a few scheduled days off after Reinforced, to recover from lack of sleep, lack of family and an overload of coding.
I've not been disappointed with an update so far, and effort much appreciated my good sirs. Fair doos I suck at this game but I still enjoy it more than most other games I've played.
Enjoy my shadow support
I am disappointed by this. Since you own the game I feel like you could have postponed that update if you felt something was wrong...
I've taken some time out today to consider your argument, RedSword, as I feel it is a position that is widely held in the NS2 community (and across many games, in general!) It is an example of the result of information asymmetry between us (the developer) and you (the player), the produces the following misconception:
tl;dr we fucked up with a too tight time schedule, our employees are burned out and now we need at least a few days to get everyone back on track.
As you didn't read it, you missed the part where I explain that that is not the case . The unfortunate nature of "tl;dr" is that one can't possibly consider the argument proposed, and stating your own opinion as fact is not a good substitute. While it certainly your right to do so, and no one is going to stop you, it doesn't make this forum a pleasant place for I or other members of the team to come and converse with you.
I don't have a problem with patches being released with a few bugs. What I do have a problem with is the consistency with which UWE releases buggy and/or poorly balanced builds just prior to a huge promotion, a.k.a. PAX or a free weekend.
Here's the issue:
When you do a promotional event, you want to expose potential customers to your most stable product possible. To new customers, the game is NEW. It doesn't matter if content has been around for a year, or if it just got released, to THEM its NEW.
New content should be used to reinvigorate your existing customers and get them to talk about the game again. Here is where its "okay" to have buggy releases, these customers have already paid.
From the graphs, it appears from UWE's perspective that they'd come close to nailing their perfect version of the game at one point, but had some serious dropoffs with balance and performance changes, and are trying to again reach that level of solidarity.
Is this correct to assume? I want to agree with you guys, and performance is whatever, mistakes are made, then fixed, it happens, life goes on.. Performance issues are expected, as other members here have said, but the balance is the most important factor.
I feel like some of the balance changes are so great, and so game-changing, that UWE takes the position literally of throwing things at the wall. That's a strange point of view to take given their attention to the game so far, and their constant efforts to fix and re-fix and re-balance their game, but things like strafe jump make the community feel (in my opinion) that the designers are losing the core focus, the vision of the game, that it felt like they'd come so close to achieving in the past, as your graphs show us.
I feel the same way, honestly, in that past builds got damned close to being perfect without changing the nature of the original game too much, but I know that balance changes were needed. Just, how many changes, and were they made in the right areas?
This post is about gameplay mechanics, really. Performance, well, that's the easy part I think. I know a lot of older members here are groaning because of repeated performance issues, but hey we all know it's a new engine and the problems that go along with it. My point is that performance has A to B solutions, physical, tangible fixes that can and will be done, but balance is a much more amorphous (da dum chiss) and slippery concept.
The more time passes and the more the game changes, I think the community gets nervous that the vision for the game will be lost in these changes. They want tighter, more controlled changes as time goes on, not more wild and unpredictable changes as seems to be happening. They should be dialing it in when it feels like they're still messing with core mechanics, like you would in a beta. Once performance is fixed, which it will eventually be, a stable core game will keep players or drive them away.
Thanks for the replies again, really is an insanely awesome level of communication here.
tl;dr we fucked up with a too tight time schedule, our employees are burned out and now we need at least a few days to get everyone back on track.
As you didn't read it, you missed the part where I explain that that is not the case . The unfortunate nature of "tl;dr" is that one can't possibly consider the argument proposed, and stating your own opinion as fact is not a good substitute. While it certainly your right to do so, and no one is going to stop you, it doesn't make this forum a pleasant place for I or other members of the team to come and converse with you.
Well, in the news article you put on the website it says something about unfixed bugs, about 'pushing limits' and that the next bugfix is delayed because people are stressed out after they needed to work more than usual to get their work done until a certain point in time. All the other stuff in that article is just marketing bla-bla. It's trying to sweet-word that either the payload (features) was too high or the amount of time was too short or the amount of developers was not high enough.
I'm a software developer myself, I had to argue about such things with project managers, too. Of course they usually ignore stuff (which is when you get them to write you an e-mail with said date and them pushing your doubts asaid so that your ass is covered when shit will hit the fan). And there is a difference between 'some bugs after a patch' and 'at least one of the features isn't usable to any of the users that could use it'.
Now, I'm neither in the position nor do I want to point the finger at someone and say they are at fault. Shit happens. I know that and I guess you guys know that, too. I just hate it when people try to sweet-talk that they fucked up. It wastes time that is better used to fix it.
Well, in the news article you put on the website it says something about unfixed bugs, about 'pushing limits' and that the next bugfix is delayed because people are stressed out after they needed to work more than usual to get their work done until a certain point in time. All the other stuff in that article is just marketing bla-bla. It's trying to sweet-word that either the payload (features) was too high or the amount of time was too short or the amount of developers was not high enough.
I'm a software developer myself, I had to argue about such things with project managers, too. Of course they usually ignore stuff (which is when you get them to write you an e-mail with said date and them pushing your doubts asaid so that your ass is covered when shit will hit the fan). And there is a difference between 'some bugs after a patch' and 'at least one of the features isn't usable to any of the users that could use it'.
Now, I'm neither in the position nor do I want to point the finger at someone and say they are at fault. Shit happens. I know that and I guess you guys know that, too. I just hate it when people try to sweet-talk that they fucked up. It wastes time that is better used to fix it.
In no way is communication from the dev team a waste of time, even if most of it is 'fluffy.' You have apparently never tried to communicate with an unresponsive dev team, or one that literally feeds you blatant lies in the few messages it does post. That's sadly the norm in today's massive, cannibalistic, big-business game industry.
The graphs are visual aids to help with making an argument about the point of optimal value in a release cycle, and how a difference between a player perceived optimum and the developer's optimum come about.
One good thing about the 2+ yr BETA release is all the recent bugs seen so minor, like I haven't been onos stomped and had to ~retry to get my weapons to switch again for ages.
Then there was the time when Lerks and Shotguns were introduced to the game - that was interesting times.
ALL games crash, ALL big software packages crash - best thing someone said to me at work recently: MS Excel is a complex piece of software - that's why there are so many was to save your work regularly, as it WILL crash eventually.
There have been people who couldn't *load the game* for months on these forums, really, I mean a bit of mouse lag in a game that used to run at 20fps even for people with super CPUs isn't such a big deal. They will fix it. Patience.
Biggest thing I think is still in error: No Manual!
I'm a software developer myself, I had to argue about such things with project managers, too. Of course they usually ignore stuff (which is when you get them to write you an e-mail...
It sounds like you are applying a terrible experience in a workplace wholly unrelated and unlike Unknown Worlds to your assumptions of how Unknown Worlds functions. I don't understand your logic, or why you would even choose to try to formulate such an assumption.
All the other stuff in that article is just marketing bla-bla...
This kind of rude, dismissive attitude and flippant dismissal of an attempt to be level with you is exactly the kind of behaviour that reduces the motivation of anyone from UWE to make such attempts in future. I am not telling you your opinion is not valid, or that you don't have a right to express it, or that the mods are going to come after you, or that I'm going to spit the dummy and stop writing blog posts. Instead, I'm attempting to convey the idea that if you that if you want us to be motivated to have direct conversations, you need to be polite. Telling us first that you didn't read the article before posting your opinion, and second that it's just 'bla-bla,' means that we have no motivation to engage with you. For example, my brain is going to instantly skim over and ignore every post you make on these forums from now on. It's not conscious and it's not personal, it's just a fact that because you were rude and dismissive, my natural social human nature is going to choose to ignore you so I can spend time discussing the topic at hand with polite people.
I know the glaring flaws with Reinforced will eventually be fixed, it's true that UWE does eventually fix the obvious problems.
But what about the bugs that weren't introduced in Reinforced? The ones that have been in the game since release. Since early beta even. Since I started playing this game.
Looking at the likes of LMG and pistol 'gun jam'. Structures that are green indicating they can be dropped but actually cannot. And beacons not effecting all players. Or players spawning in comm dropped life form eggs. First person spectator missing several ability animations and hit indicators. On/off building. Unresponsive commander menus that require a panel switch. Hotkeys for structures that are actually tool tips in disguise. Looking directly down or spawning trapped inside of the CC on round restart. Minimal infestation looking like duct tape. General AI unit pathing and collision. I could go on.
It's bugs like these (and unfinished features), the ones that are just ignored and pushed back in the order of priorities for so long that people don't even bother to report them anymore that make me question the actual quality of the game.
@Jekt
What Hugh didn't go into was how bug fixing works behind the scenes... Which is best described as "Triage" imo. Sometimes weekly.. sometimes hourly.
That description can account for a lot of the points you brought up, if you think about it. I'll go into detail another time what exactly its like if anyone wants me to, but for now :
Since you took the time to make a great post, i figured i'd take the time to address each one and their state/priority currently.. hope it helps the situation?
LMG jamming - Easily thee single most difficult to reproduce and fix bug we have, and consequently why its the longest running. (alpha days) It remains an unresolved report from 13th November 2012. (Four reports have made it through as being "fixed" in previous versions before they broke again.) This is a bug in the animation system, i am guessing, as it occurs from various factors like Onos stomp or high latency + jumping and reloading.. basically edge case scenarios that have driven Brian (resident programming god) to the point where he has recently told me "Its not good for my health to work on that one anymore" hehe... so currently it's priority is low until we can get some better consistent and reliable reproduction steps. (then it becomes high -> then fixed)
Structure blueprints show green, but cannot be dropped - This *should* be fixed recently.. in regards to powered structures.*Update* You were referring to the props interfering with structure placement.. which is not reported, as its on a per map basis, but i'll report it just to see if a programmer can come up with a clever solution. (assuming you aren't referring to placing an RT ontop of enemy's RT) In regards to infestation, there's some known issues but nothing reported in the system. If anyone is up to it, reproduction steps/vids posted in the tech support forums would make a world of difference.
Distress Beacons not effecting all players. - Last reported March 2013, fixed April 2013. No open reports for current issues - though i have personally seen it. (not internally - meaning not on confirmed Vanilla servers) Again.. its an issue of reliably reproducing it, since its so infrequent. Any information on the matter will assist in it getting fixed.
Players spawning in Tres lifeforms/Eggs - I brought this up to Sewlek when it was a hot topic much earlier in the year and whether to report it or not.. as i recall he declared it intentional.
First person spectator missing several ability animations and hit indicators - I count over 12 reports regarding first person spectator, many dating to 120 days ago.. most are medium to high priority. This is where i somehow tactfully inform you that development in this area is definitely needed, (I think where it needs the most love is to be smoother / more than 30 fps updates to be a useful spec system) I would agree and thus why these have their priorities set to where they are.. but not to hold your breath for them to be addressed, necessarily. Going into the reasons why delves into what i mentioned earlier regarding the details of how things work.. any nutshell explanation would just come off as throwing someone under the bus.
On/off building - I assume you mean the flicker of your view model attempting to draw the build gun when building? Its based upon latency / view angle and distance. Reported (officially) October 15th, 2012 with a high priority. On a personal note.. i internally referred to this as the one singular bug that i'd want fixed in regards to visual bugs. It just looks so glitchy.
Unresponsive commander menus that require a panel switch - Have 3 commander UI reports open, and none of them specify this issue but i have seen it. Most notably is selecting something and then moving the commander camera around a bit or waiting.. rendering selecting and dropping inoperable. Any further info / reproduction steps will lead to it getting fixed.
Hotkeys for structures that are actually tool tips in disguise - ?
Looking directly down or spawning trapped inside of the CC on round restart - UGH.. yes.. hate this.. Brian and me both tried chasing it down.. ]no leads yet. Reported 29th April 2013, medium priority.
Minimal infestation looking like duct tape - The devs have stated that they will not be spending any time working on minimal infestation.
General AI unit pathing and collision - Continuously being worked on by the programmers. Both bots and drifter AI etc. Recently mappers got the ability to control the nav mesh in their map, so expect better pathing from here on out, at least. Have many many reports of varying priorities.
Feel free to ask me anytime regarding any known or unknown bug, since i know there is no longer any way for the general public to see what is, or isn't being worked on.
Again, if anyone has any additional information on any of the unresolved issues feel free to PM or post in the tech support forums.Reproduction steps are crucial. Thanks!
I don't have a problem with patches being released with a few bugs. What I do have a problem with is the consistency with which UWE releases buggy and/or poorly balanced builds just prior to a huge promotion, a.k.a. PAX or a free weekend.
This gets said a lot, but I disagree that this is the case. Gorgeous was not a "buggy" build. Our last free weekend was not being played on a buggy build. The game has performed beautifully at all of our PAX shows, with next to no crashes or framerate issues. And anytime you release a load of new content and features, like new maps, new abilities and weapons, the balance is bound to be off for the first little while as people adjust to learning those new things. But you can't hold off the promotion until a month after the big update has gone out, just to allow time for those things to get smoothed over.
Yes, the free weekend before the Reinforced one did suffer from the same issues we'd had since release, and have since tried to address - low framerates and lack of a proper tutorial, key among them. But those were not problems that were introduced right before the releases, they were things that had been issues from day 1, required long term solutions, and that we were continuing to work on.
With the Reinforced free weekend we had come a long way on the performance side of things since the previous free weekend, we had added a functional tutorial, loads of tip videos, and a lot of balance work had been done. Yes the rendering changes were a risk, but we were feeling pretty confident about them, since they had been in the works for quite some time, and we hadn't experienced major issues. Everything always seems easy to do better in hindsight, but since we still can't look into the future (though we have Max working hard on the tech to allow us to be able to do that) we have to make the best decisions we can at a given time, based on the information at hand.
It's obvious the work that UWE does put into their releases and builds, but I think some of this frustration with the release timings go with the player count spikes/dips. It's frustrating to be devoted to a game, see it jump in player count, then sharply drop off yet again and be reduced to the same handful of servers full of same players as before the promotion.
I'm sure you devs understand this completely, as it's your jobs and your product on the line lol, but most of it comes from just wanting to see these spikes KEEP the players, and this game to get the long, stable day in the sun it deserves. It's like we get our hopes up with these mad influxes of players, then are reminded of our true niche, nerd, cult status as NS lovers once they bail (for whatever reason.)
The timing is important, but any player that truly enjoys the game and realizes its potential will take a minute to browse the website or forum. It doesn't take long to realize how much the game has changed, for the worse but largely for the better, and I think most will stick with it after realizing this.
This is, of course, great news, but I'd also like to hear about upcoming balance changes? The game is still a bit lacking in that area, and some elements currently being tested by Sewlek have much promise. I'd love to hear when we can expect to get the next round of BT changes.
UWE, we wouldn't have stuck around this long if we didn't like the product you put out, or how ambitious you are. However, we would very much like you to learn from your PR mistakes. We are now paying customers, and those of us that are still playing actually quite like the product that we have. Getting the rug pulled from under us with a surprise buggy beta patch can only lead to tears and frustration.
Please, in the future, it doesn't take a whole lot of time to put together some announcements regarding upcoming betas/changes. Put it in the news feed. It's worth the time delay, because it will lead to less pissed-off players.
What i am most glad about is that UWE considers the ammount of people experiencing crashes and bugs as unacceptable. (I'm not one of them thankfully)
This means that they admit that the game is not where they want it to be, which means that the time has come to slow down on features, and begin to completely polish and optimize the game.
From what I can see, there will be no more large game-breaking patches (like adding linux/DX11 support) and things will only improve from here on out.
The fact that these fixes take time is unfortunate, but it is a fact. But at least UWE cares enough to keep working and improving the game, and not just say "well, MOST people aren't having issues, so its not a big deal".
Gorgeous and Reinforced were special cases in which lots of things stay under wraps until release day, but this is definitely doable for future updates (like next week) and I'll make every effort to try and improve what you know before the update goes live.
I've had a thousand times worse experiences with so many other game developers and distributors. I love NS2 and have nothing but glowing things to say about UWE; yeah there are some bugs but given what they've achieved with the numbers they have, it's a bloody impressive effort!!
Also, because we (Australia) graciously exported Hugh to UWE I'd kindly request that all marines be equipped with the Aussie flag... just because...
Comments
Enjoy my shadow support
hehe, can't wait!
Doesn't matter in any way - the keyword is "Thursday" not "probably" (what does that mean anyway).
It's called covering your ass, which is smart.
I've taken some time out today to consider your argument, RedSword, as I feel it is a position that is widely held in the NS2 community (and across many games, in general!) It is an example of the result of information asymmetry between us (the developer) and you (the player), the produces the following misconception:
EDIT: If you look at these graphs and don't read the article (http://www.gameaperture.com/2013/09/community-discontent-as-result-of.html) you won't get it
When reality looks like this:
You can read the entire discussion on my blog, here: http://www.gameaperture.com/2013/09/community-discontent-as-result-of.html
As you didn't read it, you missed the part where I explain that that is not the case
Here's the issue:
When you do a promotional event, you want to expose potential customers to your most stable product possible. To new customers, the game is NEW. It doesn't matter if content has been around for a year, or if it just got released, to THEM its NEW.
New content should be used to reinvigorate your existing customers and get them to talk about the game again. Here is where its "okay" to have buggy releases, these customers have already paid.
So, the update cycle should look something like:
Update->time->Update->time->STABLE UPDATE->PROMOTIONAL EVENT->significant time->CONTENT PATCH->to start
Is this correct to assume? I want to agree with you guys, and performance is whatever, mistakes are made, then fixed, it happens, life goes on.. Performance issues are expected, as other members here have said, but the balance is the most important factor.
I feel like some of the balance changes are so great, and so game-changing, that UWE takes the position literally of throwing things at the wall. That's a strange point of view to take given their attention to the game so far, and their constant efforts to fix and re-fix and re-balance their game, but things like strafe jump make the community feel (in my opinion) that the designers are losing the core focus, the vision of the game, that it felt like they'd come so close to achieving in the past, as your graphs show us.
I feel the same way, honestly, in that past builds got damned close to being perfect without changing the nature of the original game too much, but I know that balance changes were needed. Just, how many changes, and were they made in the right areas?
This post is about gameplay mechanics, really. Performance, well, that's the easy part I think. I know a lot of older members here are groaning because of repeated performance issues, but hey we all know it's a new engine and the problems that go along with it. My point is that performance has A to B solutions, physical, tangible fixes that can and will be done, but balance is a much more amorphous (da dum chiss) and slippery concept.
The more time passes and the more the game changes, I think the community gets nervous that the vision for the game will be lost in these changes. They want tighter, more controlled changes as time goes on, not more wild and unpredictable changes as seems to be happening. They should be dialing it in when it feels like they're still messing with core mechanics, like you would in a beta. Once performance is fixed, which it will eventually be, a stable core game will keep players or drive them away.
Thanks for the replies again, really is an insanely awesome level of communication here.
Well, in the news article you put on the website it says something about unfixed bugs, about 'pushing limits' and that the next bugfix is delayed because people are stressed out after they needed to work more than usual to get their work done until a certain point in time. All the other stuff in that article is just marketing bla-bla. It's trying to sweet-word that either the payload (features) was too high or the amount of time was too short or the amount of developers was not high enough.
I'm a software developer myself, I had to argue about such things with project managers, too. Of course they usually ignore stuff (which is when you get them to write you an e-mail with said date and them pushing your doubts asaid so that your ass is covered when shit will hit the fan). And there is a difference between 'some bugs after a patch' and 'at least one of the features isn't usable to any of the users that could use it'.
Now, I'm neither in the position nor do I want to point the finger at someone and say they are at fault. Shit happens. I know that and I guess you guys know that, too. I just hate it when people try to sweet-talk that they fucked up. It wastes time that is better used to fix it.
In no way is communication from the dev team a waste of time, even if most of it is 'fluffy.' You have apparently never tried to communicate with an unresponsive dev team, or one that literally feeds you blatant lies in the few messages it does post. That's sadly the norm in today's massive, cannibalistic, big-business game industry.
No. The graphs have nothing to do with the progress of a particular game, or performance, or balance, or anything of the sort. I suggest (politely!) that you read the article again: http://www.gameaperture.com/2013/09/community-discontent-as-result-of.html
The graphs are visual aids to help with making an argument about the point of optimal value in a release cycle, and how a difference between a player perceived optimum and the developer's optimum come about.
true on the first part, on the second part...I'm not sure about that, but that'd be my opinion.
About the other stuff: True on that.
Then there was the time when Lerks and Shotguns were introduced to the game - that was interesting times.
ALL games crash, ALL big software packages crash - best thing someone said to me at work recently: MS Excel is a complex piece of software - that's why there are so many was to save your work regularly, as it WILL crash eventually.
There have been people who couldn't *load the game* for months on these forums, really, I mean a bit of mouse lag in a game that used to run at 20fps even for people with super CPUs isn't such a big deal. They will fix it. Patience.
Biggest thing I think is still in error: No Manual!
It sounds like you are applying a terrible experience in a workplace wholly unrelated and unlike Unknown Worlds to your assumptions of how Unknown Worlds functions. I don't understand your logic, or why you would even choose to try to formulate such an assumption.
This kind of rude, dismissive attitude and flippant dismissal of an attempt to be level with you is exactly the kind of behaviour that reduces the motivation of anyone from UWE to make such attempts in future. I am not telling you your opinion is not valid, or that you don't have a right to express it, or that the mods are going to come after you, or that I'm going to spit the dummy and stop writing blog posts. Instead, I'm attempting to convey the idea that if you that if you want us to be motivated to have direct conversations, you need to be polite. Telling us first that you didn't read the article before posting your opinion, and second that it's just 'bla-bla,' means that we have no motivation to engage with you. For example, my brain is going to instantly skim over and ignore every post you make on these forums from now on. It's not conscious and it's not personal, it's just a fact that because you were rude and dismissive, my natural social human nature is going to choose to ignore you so I can spend time discussing the topic at hand with polite people.
What Hugh didn't go into was how bug fixing works behind the scenes... Which is best described as "Triage" imo. Sometimes weekly.. sometimes hourly.
That description can account for a lot of the points you brought up, if you think about it. I'll go into detail another time what exactly its like if anyone wants me to, but for now :
Since you took the time to make a great post, i figured i'd take the time to address each one and their state/priority currently.. hope it helps the situation?
Feel free to ask me anytime regarding any known or unknown bug, since i know there is no longer any way for the general public to see what is, or isn't being worked on.
Again, if anyone has any additional information on any of the unresolved issues feel free to PM or post in the tech support forums. Reproduction steps are crucial. Thanks!
Yes, the free weekend before the Reinforced one did suffer from the same issues we'd had since release, and have since tried to address - low framerates and lack of a proper tutorial, key among them. But those were not problems that were introduced right before the releases, they were things that had been issues from day 1, required long term solutions, and that we were continuing to work on.
With the Reinforced free weekend we had come a long way on the performance side of things since the previous free weekend, we had added a functional tutorial, loads of tip videos, and a lot of balance work had been done. Yes the rendering changes were a risk, but we were feeling pretty confident about them, since they had been in the works for quite some time, and we hadn't experienced major issues. Everything always seems easy to do better in hindsight, but since we still can't look into the future (though we have Max working hard on the tech to allow us to be able to do that) we have to make the best decisions we can at a given time, based on the information at hand.
I'm sure you devs understand this completely, as it's your jobs and your product on the line lol, but most of it comes from just wanting to see these spikes KEEP the players, and this game to get the long, stable day in the sun it deserves. It's like we get our hopes up with these mad influxes of players, then are reminded of our true niche, nerd, cult status as NS lovers once they bail (for whatever reason.)
The timing is important, but any player that truly enjoys the game and realizes its potential will take a minute to browse the website or forum. It doesn't take long to realize how much the game has changed, for the worse but largely for the better, and I think most will stick with it after realizing this.
Please, in the future, it doesn't take a whole lot of time to put together some announcements regarding upcoming betas/changes. Put it in the news feed. It's worth the time delay, because it will lead to less pissed-off players.
This means that they admit that the game is not where they want it to be, which means that the time has come to slow down on features, and begin to completely polish and optimize the game.
From what I can see, there will be no more large game-breaking patches (like adding linux/DX11 support) and things will only improve from here on out.
The fact that these fixes take time is unfortunate, but it is a fact. But at least UWE cares enough to keep working and improving the game, and not just say "well, MOST people aren't having issues, so its not a big deal".
Hooray for good work ethics!
UWE team should take their time to rest , stay with family and have a meeting before rellease new patch or build version
I think you guys too rush when think NS2 should competitive with other Multiplayer FPS on Steam ( Planet side 2 , TF2 , Counter Strike...)
Take your time , and time will answer
This man just became my favorite member.
And already sold on that plushie. Goddamn would I buy one in a new york Minute. I capitalized, there.
Also, because we (Australia) graciously exported Hugh to UWE I'd kindly request that all marines be equipped with the Aussie flag... just because...