Prototyping Mod

Sewlek

<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?0r30q1js7jfnt9n" target="_blank">Prototyping Mod 1.8.5</a>

Sewlek

just realised that the lerk damge is way too high now with hit scan. I tuned it down

<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?b8il5to47cxmwgw" target="_blank">Prototyping Mod 1.8.6</a>

twiliteblue

I just realised my Blink movement code was really dodgy. Here's a better solution. You will want to change kEtherealAcceleration (mine's 30 now), or Blink starting velocity may feel too slow.

Fade.lua:
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->function Fade:PreUpdateMove(input, runningPrediction)

    PROFILE("Fade:PreUpdateMove")

    if self:GetIsEthereal() then
        local move = GetNormalizedVector( input.move )
        local viewCoords = self:GetViewAngles():GetCoords()            
        local redirectDir = viewCoords:TransformVector( move )
        local velocity = self:GetVelocity()
        
        if (move:GetLength() ~= 0) then
            self:SetVelocity(redirectDir * velocity:GetLength())
        end
    end
    
end<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->


Blink.lua:
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->function Blink:SetEthereal(player, state)

    // Enter or leave invulnerable invisible fast-moving mode
    if self.ethereal ~= state then
    
        if state then
            self.etherealStartTime = Shared.GetTime()
            self:TriggerBlinkOutEffects(player)
        else
            self:TriggerBlinkInEffects(player)            
        end
        
        self.ethereal = state
        
        // Set player visibility state
        player:SetIsVisible(not self.ethereal)
        player:SetGravityEnabled(not self.ethereal)
        
        player:SetEthereal(state)
        

        // Give player initial velocity in direction we're pressing, or forward if
        if self.ethereal then
            
        // Give a little (0.5) initial height  to clear the ground            
            local initialBoostDirection = Vector (0, 1, 0)      
            local newVelocity = initialBoostDirection * 0.5  // Blink.kStartEtherealForce            
            player:SetVelocity(newVelocity)
            
            
        else
        
            // Mute current velocity when coming out of blink
            player:SetVelocity( player:GetVelocity() * .5 )
            
        end
        
    end
    
end<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->

Sewlek

I will add it. I also wanted to give the fade a small initial upwards boost. Most of the time I'm anyway jumping before blinking to avoid those problems of getting stucked.

what do you think: would fetch be better if I make it move the marine faster (increase his velocity and max speed in the fades direction)? Maybe make the fade not invisible, only the marine? And fades could maybe always see "ethereal" stuff. makes it easier, and also coordinated attacks of multiple fades would work better when they can see each other

twiliteblue

<!--quoteo(post=1866246:date=Aug 3 2011, 10:27 PM:name=Schimmel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Schimmel @ Aug 3 2011, 10:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866246"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I will add it. I also wanted to give the fade a small initial upwards boost. Most of the time I'm anyway jumping before blinking to avoid those problems of getting stucked.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, don't add it yet! It looks like you found the right place for modifying velocity (Fade:ModifyVelocity()) before me, lol. I gotta work on reading the NS2 developers' better.

<!--quoteo(post=1866246:date=Aug 3 2011, 10:27 PM:name=Schimmel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Schimmel @ Aug 3 2011, 10:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866246"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what do you think: would fetch be better if I make it move the marine faster (increase his velocity and max speed in the fades direction)? Maybe make the fade not invisible, only the marine? And fades could maybe always see "ethereal" stuff. makes it easier, and also coordinated attacks of multiple fades would work better when they can see each other<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think fetch/pull needs to have a clear purpose, balance can be adjusted later. I wouldn't mind if it holds a marine, preventing movement, but leaves the Fade vulnerable. That way, a Fade is not completely useless if it cannot get close to a group of Marines.

It would be great if you can add a target-lock for the ability that allows some (30º?) turning (similar to the Medic healing gun from TF2). You can burrow some the old flamethrower angle checking code. :)

BTW I really like the cool (side-)effect of Sentries attacking invisible Fades. Maybe allowing Fades to distract Sentries could be left as a feature. Having Sentries wasting ammo on invulnerable Fades seems a bit imbalanced, but remember, Blink costs energy, and can't be maintained forever. The amount of ammo per Sentry clip can easily be increased.

Sewlek

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Having Sentries wasting ammo on invulnerable Fades seems a bit imbalanced, but remember, Blink costs energy, and can't be maintained forever.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
but to be honest, its a bug. I don't want to sell it as feature! :D

in normal ns2 fades are invisible and cannot take damage at all (their position is not even send to other clients), and my changes now cause all this side effects. and i guess the sentries filter their targets by getcantakedamage and getisvisible (or at least one of them). just have to change the filter function to canentitydodamageto (or however it was called) since everything is supposed to be directed to this function anyway (that got missed a lot of times, in all hit-scan weapons as well)

twiliteblue

The change is done. I trust you can work it into to the existing code. :P

You can remove Fade:PreUpdateMove().

Fade.lua:
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->function Fade:ModifyVelocity(input, velocity)  

    Alien.ModifyVelocity(self, input, velocity)
    
        if self:GetIsEthereal() then
        
            local move = GetNormalizedVector( input.move )        
            local viewCoords = self:GetViewAngles():GetCoords()                    
            local impulse = viewCoords:TransformVector( move ) * velocity:GetLength()
        
            if (move:GetLength() ~= 0) then
                velocity.x = impulse.x        
                velocity.y = impulse.y
                velocity.z = impulse.z        
            end
    end
    
end<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->

If Blink feels like sliding on ice, you'll want to increase Fade.kEtherealAcceleration to a high value, like 100.
eg In Player.lua:
Player.kWalkMaxSpeed = 5
Player.kAcceleration = 40 //which is 8 times max speed

Sewlek

<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?62h9suo5nplt55h" target="_blank">Prototyping Mod 1.8.7</a>

lerk change:
spores are now in slot 1 as alt attack (snipe is not available anymore). thats not a lerk nerf, he's now much stronger with hit-zone and hitscan spikes :) and with spores as alt attack the gameplay feels better

Zuriki

I preferred this when it was just balance and not adding all these bizarre new features. Plus, it doesn't seem like you have enough aggregated data to test your balance features.

Quovatis

<!--quoteo(post=1866430:date=Aug 4 2011, 01:48 PM:name=Zuriki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zuriki @ Aug 4 2011, 01:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1866430"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I preferred this when it was just balance and not adding all these bizarre new features. Plus, it doesn't seem like you have enough aggregated data to test your balance features.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

agreed. Unfortunately it doesn't really matter until auto-download is in. Nobody will use it until then.

Sewlek

thats true. the only thing I could have done is making installation automated. Since I did that, I now even meet a few people from time to time on a server playing that mod :D maximum player count was so far 7 during 1 game.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... seem like you have enough aggregated data to test your balance features<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

thats why i call it "prototyping mod". just want to test things, without breaking the core game too much. it should in the end still be a playable game. at least not worse than the original, but an alternative.

people have so many interesting ideas here in this forums, and its no mistake to just try them out before rejecting them. i can always fall back to original ns2 if one part is fail. so it's not called "improved ns2"... it's just here for testing stuff, and because i like programming.

by the way, if you have any interesting feedback for improvements or ideas, share them. I'm open for everything

luns

i'm wondering if you could add lerk bite and umbra?

I had something in mind something like this:

slot 1
primary attack: lerk bite
secondary attack: spores OR spikes

umbra will be in slot 2 with either spores or spikes depending how secondary attack in slot 1 changes.

Sewlek

it's an interesting idea, but I recently tried to streamline the alien abilities (alt attack in slot 1 + 2 the same, with third hive something else).

so, I would like to see either spores in slot 1 and 2 as alt attack (that fits very good in my opinion), and a "burst shot" with 2 hives in slot 2.

or, completely revamp my ideas and make this:

burst shot slot 1, spores slot 2
then with 2nd hive, you get umbra as alt attack

with 3 hives you get slot 3 and, dunno primal scream?

update: actually I like this idea so much, that I implemented umbra now as alt-attack, available with 2 hives in slot 1 and 2. the view model animations are not smooth, but I'll wait with fixing that for build 184.

also have some skulk updates for you, have an idea to make them more interesting to play:
<!--coloro:#FFFACD--><span style="color:#FFFACD"><!--/coloro--><i>
decrease speed by 10% (build 180 values)

- wall walking + jump makes you jump of the wall (view-direction + normal-to-wall + upwards (y) boost) and increases you max speed by 10% for 1.7 seconds (leap is unchanged)

- using +movement (walk/sneak) for more than 2 seconds increases your max speed for 2 seconds after releasing the button, if held down before for at least 3 seconds</i><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

Sewlek

<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?xeldjc3w81og789" target="_blank">Prototyping Mod 2.0</a>

changelog:

- added wall-jump for skulk
- improved fetch
- balanced lerk better and added umbra as alt attack in slot 1 and 2

Sewlek

i felt bored and made a video of the skulks' wall-jumping

<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FzciHC6xAVQ"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FzciHC6xAVQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>

Feha

Not sure exactly how you do it (vid seems to be sped up by quite a bit), but it looks pretty sweet. If you do not do it already, how about make the jump <i>always</i> give some upwards momentum, even when on walls (maybe with an exception if the walls normal has a negative y component)? I think it would feel better than if you fall as soon as you jumped, because of gravity immediately making you fall. Although I cant be sure, obviously. ;)

Just want to mention a good thing with spark, the Coord object. I dont know if you do it like this already (or some better way maybe), but it would be possible to make some simple code for how to get the direction and magnitude of a jump depending on what movement keys are pressed, where you treat the skulk as if it is on a flat surface. Then you can simply rotate the coordinate system so its y axis aligns with the normal of the actual surface, resulting in the jump vector in the global coordinate system.

EDIT:
On second thought, using Coord like that, while making sense in third person, would not make much sense in firstperson when I think about it, as the camera dont rotate with the model. If you for example strafe, you would jump sideways of the skulks model, not your view (which means downwards or upwards if you run alongside a wall).
Probably better to do it like I assume you already do it, adding vectors with the directions of surface normal and your desired move direction (iirc, strafing on a wall uses the cameras x-axis, not the skulks).

Sewlek

i added to movement velocity the surface normal plus some upward boost. i normalized that and multiplied with a standard factor (think it was 65). the result is that you jump off the surface, and not drop down. and no, the vid is not sped up. should be normal speed, unless i did nothing wrong when converting it.

twiliteblue

I love the wall jump! The only minor issue is the model is not flipped quickly enough when you jump from a wall to a ceiling.

I changed Fade movement a bit. Tell me what you think.
Download: <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?pqwaua2cjd9wy7e" target="_blank">http://www.mediafire.com/?pqwaua2cjd9wy7e</a>

Changes:
* Reduced dash/dodge speed and duration so it looks a lot like the bullet dodging in RE5 (ie Charlie's vision). It is a lot more controllable now.
* Changed Blink movement to take acceleration into account.
* Fixed Fade normal acceleration bug (it was 1, now it's set to 52)
* Increased ethereal acceleration to 80 because of the above changes.

Sewlek

the blink is good. feels better.

but the miniblink is now too short / slowly.

i changed it to these values:

<div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain' style='height:200px;white-space:pre;overflow:auto'>Fade.kFadeLeapSpeed = 40
Fade.kStartFadeLeapForce = 60
Fade.kFadeLeapIntervall = 1.3
Fade.kFadeLeapDuration = 0.07</div>

Sewlek

here a video of my implementation / version of bombard.

it will be included in the next patch of my mod

<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/C9RlfAF4DQU"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/C9RlfAF4DQU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>

edit: thinking about alt attack for the shotgun. <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=114498&view=findpost&p=1866966" target="_blank">This idea</a> looks interesting (if numbers are balanced correctly)

Sewlek

<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?3fu4hs8q912rkgg" target="_blank">Prototyping Mod 2.1</a>

- added bombard

subshadow

I love that walljumping.
But I love everything that encourages running on walls, especially when attacking.

Sewlek

<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?6aty1qcyv60gma2" target="_blank">Prototyping Mod 2.2</a>

- put some more work in skulk wall jumping. you can now increase your max speed if you trigger wall-jumps, and avoid slowdowns (= getting stucked or ground friction) up to some maximum speed

- fixed a bug with bombard where you could should 2 bombs at the same time

- reduced bombard energy cost from 25 to 15, reduced upgrade time for mature

- increased bilebomb energy requirement, you could spam it too much before

edit: there is still some debug message when you perform wall-jumps. I let it in so people who want to test it can see how much "boost" they have and when it drops off.

Sewlek

<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?awnkd5il327242t" target="_blank">Prototyping Mod 2.3</a>

- i made some improvements to the skulk wall jump

- changed fade blink + dash little bit, to make them appear more often.

edit:

<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?odi5tgwex24yccv" target="_blank">Prototyping Mod 2.4</a>

- restored skulks aircontrol (forgot in 2.3 that i changed it)

- lerk takes only 80% damage when you hit his wings

twiliteblue

Four new versions in one day? That's some rapid prototyping! :P

What's the next experiment? Shotgun's alt attack? How about Power Pack Overload (temporary electrification)?

PS I've been getting this error: "WhipBomb:SetOwner(): Must be called with a Player (not a Whip) - Server".

Sewlek

the next experiment is a bug fix for the selection bug. you know, this problem when you click on a structure / unit, but it does not react. I tracked the bug down and fixed it. that should immensely increase the commanding experience :)

i sent it to uwe and will aswell include it in the next version of my mod

edit: also fixed now the "build-after-recycle" bug. Im doing this fixes, because i want to improve the commander mode overall a bit. double clicking selection, order-queue, etc.

Quovatis

I really like the lerk. With the flight mod, spike hitscan, and umbra, it's actually useful again. Hope UWE does something similar in the real game. Lerk has gone from completely OP (spores), to basically worthless in the current build.

luns

umbra and bite needs to given back to the lerk. It would expand his close combat fighter idea charlie wants, and umbra for the support the lerk suppose to bring to the battlefield while still able to play part in close combat fighting.

spores range needs to increase, and of course his flight control needs to be a lot smoother.

Sewlek

<!--quoteo(post=1867540:date=Aug 8 2011, 02:58 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Aug 8 2011, 02:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1867540"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...
spores range needs to increase, and of course his flight control needs to be a lot smoother.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

i agree. his main range ability should be spores. spikes or bite i don't want to decide which he should have, but it should be close® range.

Sewlek

<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?p7g06qfqgwxc9iz" target="_blank">Prototyping Mod 2.5</a>

- merged with Build 184
- fixed commander single selection bug (this annoything bug where sometimes buildings won't react on your actions)
- fixed "build-after-recycle" bug (you were unable to build something after recycling, without selection another structure before)

edit:

I updated the first post with new ideas which i would like to implement:

- hives / command stations multiply the personal res income
- MAC Mines
- PowerPack Electrification