I don't see it on the steam workshop, it might not be posted immediately though, got a link? EDIT: Found it: <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=106826924" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/file...s/?id=106826924</a>
<!--quoteo(post=2011481:date=Nov 5 2012, 01:24 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Nov 5 2012, 01:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2011481"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I love this idea, though I would suggest starting a new thread and rewriting the OP to be clear about what it is exactly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2011436:date=Nov 5 2012, 10:48 AM:name=Sewlek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sewlek @ Nov 5 2012, 10:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2011436"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->im reviving the mod!
i added the mod to steam workshop, but its right now not really different from the steam build<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> is walljump capped ?
I still find the speed boost a bit unpredictable. How about a +5% speed increase for every successful walljump that stacks to like, 15% or something? Having to jump from a specific angle, or land on something with a specific angle seems pretty weird.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
<!--quoteo(post=2012660:date=Nov 6 2012, 10:19 AM:name=wiry)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wiry @ Nov 6 2012, 10:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012660"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still find the speed boost a bit unpredictable. How about a +5% speed increase for every successful walljump that stacks to like, 15% or something? Having to jump from a specific angle, or land on something with a specific angle seems pretty weird.
so, you dont want that the skulk slows down when you collide with something? because that would create the problem that you could spam jump during looking against a wall to build up your speed :)
the speed boost is not random. in this version you add with every wall jump some speed. once you found a jump rythm that works for you, and good paths in the maps, it works very reliable. its all about practising
My initial feelings from the skulk movement changes are: - Smoother - Easier for new players - Worse for those who are used to the old code (that's in current steam version), for the time being
I just don't get as much boost from the walls as I do in the steam version.
+ no more "ice-skating skulk" bug + smoother, way smoother. much more predictable if you're going to land walljumps or not. + easier
- it's still not really difficult, but I'm assuming that's changing so I'll just leave this up in case :P - less of speed boost on walljumps overall. the first jump after I go up the pillar is much more difficult to make in the prototyping mod, and I have to change the route slightly to accomodate more jumps because of less speed.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->14:33 <Skiedragon> I think it has something to do with the stickiness being removed. And not getting such a big initial boost. 14:33 <Skiedragon> Like, if you try to walk down from ceiling, it used to pull you back. Now it doesn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> unintended side effect?
Wow, I didn't know about this before. It looks awesome!
However: <!--quoteo(post=2011481:date=Nov 5 2012, 01:24 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Nov 5 2012, 01:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2011481"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I love this idea, though I would suggest starting a new thread and rewriting the OP to be clear about what it is exactly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I quite like the current walljump implementation in 228. I haven't had a chance to try this out, but me and PoP have been figuring out routes.
As long as you can reach the same speed (13-15) with multiple quickly chained jumps I don't mind. It would be great if you didn't loose so much speed bouncing along the ground aka ground friction. This way you could keep the same for 2-3 seconds in combat before slowing down.
<!--quoteo(post=2012935:date=Nov 6 2012, 06:54 PM:name=Sewlek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sewlek @ Nov 6 2012, 06:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012935"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->so, you dont want that the skulk slows down when you collide with something? because that would create the problem that you could spam jump during looking against a wall to build up your speed :)
the speed boost is not random. in this version you add with every wall jump some speed. once you found a jump rythm that works for you, and good paths in the maps, it works very reliable. its all about practising<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, no. But what if you turned more than, lets say, 45 degrees the speed boost wouldn't apply. This, and a bit more air control (where if you over-turn you loose speed, etc) sounds like a somewhat good solution to me. This would probably make the skulk movement a bit more predictable and not random.
The problem I'm seeing is that if you're standing in the middle of a big room, I would still like to be able to gain some kind of speed boost, but I'm not sure how.
However, I will try out the mod a bit more and see if I can get better at it. :)
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
its right now really difficult to pull off, getting higher speeds i mean. i was able to travel, without leap, through half summit at around speed of 12. but then took a 5 minute break, was out of my rythm and simply could not do it anymore. so im not sure if thats good or not :D
in this mod that bug where your speed sometimes spikes up suddenly when jumping on ground is gone and i added better way of how collision with geometry slows you down (its not happening anymore unless your impact is too steep). thats why i mentioned before, that new code is way more predictable.
also that sticky code is gone, it felt just wrong to me (and could also sometimes cause to slow you down, at least in the steam build). the most difficult variables currently are the walljump force, air friction and leap. the movement should be challenging, but im unsure about the skill level. right now its kinda hard core. try to sustain a speed of 12 and you see what i mean
One thing to remember is that bunnyhop was largely independent of terrain, you could do it just about anywhere. Chaining walljumps on the other hand can be a lot harder depending on where you are, so I personally think it should be less technically difficult to execute in ideal circumstances. Like, say, maintaining speed between multiple walls(i.e. in an average corridor) is relatively simple, maintaining speed on a single wall is advanced. As you get better at it, more advanced routes open up to you enabling you to take shorter paths from A to B. That's where the skill should come in IMO.
This method of gaining speed needs to be changed. I'm sorry but this is completely counterintuitive. I've always wondered why I felt so slow as a skulk. Now I know, how would I have ever figured that out? I mean, I knew about wall jumping to gain speed but I always jumped from one wall to another or from the wall to the ceiling/floor with low impact angles. I could get a decent speed but nowhere near what's in that vid.
How is any new player ever supposed to know that they can dettach off a wall and reattach without actually losing any height to gain speed. It simply doesn't seem like it should be phsyically possible. There's nothing wrong with a high skill ceiling, but a player should be able to reach that ceiling by playing and learning for himself, over time. Not stumbling onto a youtube video demonstrating the breaking of the laws of physics.
I would much rather see a system where your speed increases simply by running and not running onto a wall, floor, or ceiling at too steep an angle. Jumping off a wall could still augment your speed further but I wouldn't want a system that makes you do the stuff in that video. It needs to be fluid and easily understandle yet hard to master. Not completely illogical and impossible to even figure out without being visually shown.
<!--quoteo(post=2013803:date=Nov 6 2012, 11:19 PM:name=Sewlek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sewlek @ Nov 6 2012, 11:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2013803"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->also that sticky code is gone, it felt just wrong to me (and could also sometimes cause to slow you down, at least in the steam build). the most difficult variables currently are the walljump force, air friction and leap. the movement should be challenging, but im unsure about the skill level. right now its kinda hard core. try to sustain a speed of 12 and you see what i mean<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> definitely well done with removing the stickiness of v1.0. it was a huge frustration and really unpredictable during combat.
however, the mechanics still aren't really that deep or challenging. I'm able to maintain speed 12 through most maps with ease. maybe we could test out pogo stick jumping in this prototype mod to eliminate the timing factor, and then change the difficulty in some other fashion?
additionally, warsow employs a similar walljump mechanic, perhaps you could pull some ideas: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3Nz8JP-MXY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3Nz8JP-MXY</a>
Shrimm: I'm not the hugest fan of the current system, but what exactly do you find counterintuitive about it? walljumps increase your speed, and chaining jumps allows you to keep that speed because you don't get friction applied from the floor / walls. your proposed solution doesn't seem to match your description of a good movement mechanic: easy to learn, hard to master.
Comments
i added the mod to steam workshop, but its right now not really different from the steam build
.. at least area dmg after burn infestation
EDIT: Found it: <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=106826924" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/file...s/?id=106826924</a>
<!--quoteo(post=2011481:date=Nov 5 2012, 01:24 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Nov 5 2012, 01:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2011481"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I love this idea, though I would suggest starting a new thread and rewriting the OP to be clear about what it is exactly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That sounds great.
i added the mod to steam workshop, but its right now not really different from the steam build<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
is walljump capped ?
Also, <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=123491&hl=" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...=123491&hl=</a>
Also, <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=123491&hl=" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...=123491&hl=</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so, you dont want that the skulk slows down when you collide with something? because that would create the problem that you could spam jump during looking against a wall to build up your speed :)
the speed boost is not random. in this version you add with every wall jump some speed. once you found a jump rythm that works for you, and good paths in the maps, it works very reliable. its all about practising
- Smoother
- Easier for new players
- Worse for those who are used to the old code (that's in current steam version), for the time being
I just don't get as much boost from the walls as I do in the steam version.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mESp4qSEUd8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mESp4qSEUd8</a>
+ no more "ice-skating skulk" bug
+ smoother, way smoother. much more predictable if you're going to land walljumps or not.
+ easier
- it's still not really difficult, but I'm assuming that's changing so I'll just leave this up in case :P
- less of speed boost on walljumps overall. the first jump after I go up the pillar is much more difficult to make in the prototyping mod, and I have to change the route slightly to accomodate more jumps because of less speed.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->14:33 <Skiedragon> I think it has something to do with the stickiness being
removed. And not getting such a big initial boost.
14:33 <Skiedragon> Like, if you try to walk down from ceiling, it used to pull
you back. Now it doesn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
unintended side effect?
However:
<!--quoteo(post=2011481:date=Nov 5 2012, 01:24 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Nov 5 2012, 01:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2011481"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I love this idea, though I would suggest starting a new thread and rewriting the OP to be clear about what it is exactly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As long as you can reach the same speed (13-15) with multiple quickly chained jumps I don't mind. It would be great if you didn't loose so much speed bouncing along the ground aka ground friction. This way you could keep the same for 2-3 seconds in combat before slowing down.
the speed boost is not random. in this version you add with every wall jump some speed. once you found a jump rythm that works for you, and good paths in the maps, it works very reliable. its all about practising<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, no. But what if you turned more than, lets say, 45 degrees the speed boost wouldn't apply. This, and a bit more air control (where if you over-turn you loose speed, etc) sounds like a somewhat good solution to me. This would probably make the skulk movement a bit more predictable and not random.
The problem I'm seeing is that if you're standing in the middle of a big room, I would still like to be able to gain some kind of speed boost, but I'm not sure how.
However, I will try out the mod a bit more and see if I can get better at it. :)
in this mod that bug where your speed sometimes spikes up suddenly when jumping on ground is gone and i added better way of how collision with geometry slows you down (its not happening anymore unless your impact is too steep). thats why i mentioned before, that new code is way more predictable.
also that sticky code is gone, it felt just wrong to me (and could also sometimes cause to slow you down, at least in the steam build). the most difficult variables currently are the walljump force, air friction and leap. the movement should be challenging, but im unsure about the skill level. right now its kinda hard core. try to sustain a speed of 12 and you see what i mean
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mESp4qSEUd8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mESp4qSEUd8</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This method of gaining speed needs to be changed. I'm sorry but this is completely counterintuitive. I've always wondered why I felt so slow as a skulk. Now I know, how would I have ever figured that out? I mean, I knew about wall jumping to gain speed but I always jumped from one wall to another or from the wall to the ceiling/floor with low impact angles. I could get a decent speed but nowhere near what's in that vid.
How is any new player ever supposed to know that they can dettach off a wall and reattach without actually losing any height to gain speed. It simply doesn't seem like it should be phsyically possible. There's nothing wrong with a high skill ceiling, but a player should be able to reach that ceiling by playing and learning for himself, over time. Not stumbling onto a youtube video demonstrating the breaking of the laws of physics.
I would much rather see a system where your speed increases simply by running and not running onto a wall, floor, or ceiling at too steep an angle. Jumping off a wall could still augment your speed further but I wouldn't want a system that makes you do the stuff in that video. It needs to be fluid and easily understandle yet hard to master. Not completely illogical and impossible to even figure out without being visually shown.
definitely well done with removing the stickiness of v1.0. it was a huge frustration and really unpredictable during combat.
however, the mechanics still aren't really that deep or challenging. I'm able to maintain speed 12 through most maps with ease. maybe we could test out pogo stick jumping in this prototype mod to eliminate the timing factor, and then change the difficulty in some other fashion?
additionally, warsow employs a similar walljump mechanic, perhaps you could pull some ideas: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3Nz8JP-MXY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3Nz8JP-MXY</a>
Shrimm: I'm not the hugest fan of the current system, but what exactly do you find counterintuitive about it? walljumps increase your speed, and chaining jumps allows you to keep that speed because you don't get friction applied from the floor / walls. your proposed solution doesn't seem to match your description of a good movement mechanic: easy to learn, hard to master.