TF2

Thansal

so, poking around the TF2 forums on steampowered I found <a href="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=600427" target="_blank">This</a> thread.

included in there are binds to insta build engie items as well as the sapper.

ALSO in there is a description on how the Spy disguise work, including letting you disguise as any team.

(I just noticed some one saying that the spy disguise stuff is in the gui, I must have never noticed it...)

DiscoZombie

<!--quoteo(post=1653776:date=Oct 3 2007, 01:29 PM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thansal @ Oct 3 2007, 01:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1653776"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->so, poking around the TF2 forums on steampowered I found <a href="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=600427" target="_blank">This</a> thread.

included in there are binds to insta build engie items as well as the sapper.

ALSO in there is a description on how the Spy disguise work, including letting you disguise as any team.

(I just noticed some one saying that the spy disguise stuff is in the gui, I must have never noticed it...)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
interesting find... the only alias I can think of that I would be interested in might be to instasap and switch back to your last weapon... would this work:

alias sap "build 4;wait;+attack;wait;-attack;wait;lastinv"

would make it easier to instasap a sentry and then stab the engy before he can remove it.

Thansal

umm, I think that "build 4" will actually just build a sapper, no need to change weapons, though I haven't tested it and thus will not swear to it.


my question is if teams 3 and 4 will work for a map that only has teams 1 and 2. Cuz, running around as a green spy would be fun <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

DiscoZombie

speaking of maps with more than 2 teams... Valve, I fart in your general direction for not releasing The Hunted for TF2. That map would have such potential for this game...

Thansal

<!--quoteo(post=1653803:date=Oct 3 2007, 03:25 PM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoZombie @ Oct 3 2007, 03:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1653803"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->speaking of maps with more than 2 teams... Valve, I fart in your general direction for not releasing The Hunted for TF2. That map would have such potential for this game...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
on that note, has it been officially stated that the beta maps are the ONLY ones that will be there at release?

Abra

Oh, and disguising yourself as someone from your own team isn't new. When you equip the "disguise tool" or whatever - it reads "press [-] to change disguise color" or something.

Thansal

<!--quoteo(post=1653813:date=Oct 3 2007, 04:30 PM:name=Abra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Abra @ Oct 3 2007, 04:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1653813"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh, and disguising yourself as someone from your own team isn't new. When you equip the "disguise tool" or whatever - it reads "press [-] to change disguise color" or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yah, that was pointed out and I apparently have missed it every time (despite looking for it when I first started playing <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />)

Abra

<!--quoteo(post=1653817:date=Oct 3 2007, 10:54 PM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thansal @ Oct 3 2007, 10:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1653817"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yah, that was pointed out and I apparently have missed it every time (despite looking for it when I first started playing <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From my own reaction to spies, It might have a purpose. Might make you <i>less</i> of a target.
I would like to hear some creative ideas though-

Thansal

Disguise, run into base, switch disguises.
People EXPECT some one from the enemy team to run in, they DON'T expect people from their team to.

Disguise, bop around corner, put up invis and then make with the stabey stabey when you are chased.

Liku

<!--quoteo(post=1653706:date=Oct 3 2007, 02:33 AM:name=Mantrid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mantrid @ Oct 3 2007, 02:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1653706"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have discovered a new strategy for Spies when the Engineer is hiding in his little camp: Sap the turret, then shoot him in the head until he dies.

You'd think that'd just be common sense, and yet...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If a shotgun to the face doesn't get you first. Spies are really noticeable when they approach the SGs.

Merkaba

Of course, it's a pain in the arse when you come across someone coming in the opposite direction who starts sparring with you, as you must either drop your disguise to fight back or else be a complete wet towel about it.

Unless that person is a spy also, doing the same thing as you; then I imagine it's just hilarious.


Other same-team disguise tactics could probably be employed, but beyond disguising your sneakish intentions when approaching their base/cap point the options become very subjective, and likely to fail. Ideas though include disguising to tempt opponents to pay attention to you, while a teammate does something useful. And...well, I can't think of much beyond that that isn't a variation of the same thing.

I must try an elusive heavyweapons guy disguise some time; pop out behind a rock, draw fire, cloak/disguise/run to a different spot, repeat.

Private_Coleman

This pyro killed me and immediately got hit by a demoman's grenade <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

<img src="http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/3010/pyropieceshf0.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Gwahir

now that's timing!

Redford

The best way to deal with a spy sapping your sentries is to remember that the unassuming wrench is actually one of the best melee weapons in the game. It swings quickly and deals impressive damage. Two or three swings are enough to kill any spy. One crit will kill anyone with a base of 125 hp (engineers, snipers, spies, scouts). As a matter of course most spies will give themselves away by sapping all your buildings first, even the unimportant ones. They will often sap your sentry, and then without taking advantage of the element of surprise, carry on to your dispenser and perhaps teleports if this is nearby. The thing most engineers do is try to remove the sappers. This can work, but can also get you shot in the head while you are standing stationary with the wrench. In general, most spies and engineers do the WRONG thing. Most spies continue to try killing all the buildings before the engineer, and most engineers try to save all buildings before they attack the spy. This puts the engineer into endless sapping cycles. This usually ends with someone coming along, picking out the spy, and snapping his neck. Meanwhile all those sappers have fed your enemy points. How do you exploit this?

As a spy attacking an engineer: Wait until he turns his back. Sap the turret. Do not sap anything else. When he tries to remove the sap, pull out your revolver and shoot him 2 or 3 times for a kill. Sap the turret if he manages to remove the first sapper (if it's level three you literally have less then a second to do this). Using your knife is a bad idea unless you have the cat-like reflexes needed to strafe behind him before he can swing his wrench two times. On the plus side, his body will block the turret's fire, though it will almost certainly kill you afterward if he gets the sapper off. This defeats the purpose of you being there (killing the turret). If the engineer tries to kill you instead of removing the sap, go on the evasive. Either cloak and hide, or be a difficult target while continuing to shoot the TURRET. This will make the sapper work faster. When the turret dies, shoot the engineer. This plan ensures that the turret dies. Engineers are replaced much faster then turrets.

As an engineer, you need to kill the spy or else he will certainly kill your turret. If the spy is sneaking up behind you then you might actually consider stepping back from your turret and see if he stabs you. This results in the turret killing him dead. Note that if the turret is low level and he is near enough to it, he CAN pull our his sapper and stun the turret before it can kill him. If you can see the spy coming (IE, someone out of place running at your buildings), start whacking him with the wrench. Why the wrench? So you won't need to pull out your wrench after you are done to remove the sapper. If you are lucky or good, you might be able to kill him before he plants the sapper. If he does plant the sapper, he is still pretty much screwed. He will be next to an engineer, holding a deadly melee weapon without the advantage of stealth. At this point, he may either try to fight back (and die in a comical style) or he will attempt to stealth and run. If he goes stealth, remove the sapper, and then kill him if he returns. In any case, most of the time he WILL get the sapper on your turret - but since you are using the wrench it will be a very easy matter to remove it.

Finally, an oddball strat for spies is to use your revolver. This only works if the engineer is not near his turret, but turret revolver kills don't seem to cause the same murderous response that sapper kills get. In addition, he won't broadcast a spy warning to everyone near him - which can buy you the seconds needed to cap a point. Also, if the engineer is turtling or not paying attention your revolver can kill him mighty quick if you aim at him while he is trying to repair his turret, letting other classes kill it while it is not being maintained.

This post is my official 3,000 get, btw.

Merkaba

Congrats, beat me by 23 posts <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

My routine for taking out sentries is to sap the turret and immediately step back to watch the engineer; if he goes to remove it I can usually position myself behind him and stab him before he gets his second whack in. If he starts shooting me, then I do as you said and try evasive action - I don't like to reveal myself as a spy unless I am certain there is noone around to fool; otherwise, if I can stay concealed then other enemy members may have never noticed there was a spy around in the first place, and so can blend back in easily (after escaping the engineer, who I'll then probably stab as he builds another sentry anyway).

Needless to say, I often feel like a right evil bugger when playing a spy; especially in sudden death. There is nothing as wickedly satisfying as being at the back of a group of opponents who are paying constant attention to everything in front of them, and nothing behind them.

Gwahir

I had an interesting moment today. I was dominated and had my revenge within one second's time. I was a demo man, I was rocket killed and my grenade went off and killed the soldier one moment later.

edit: I seem to be approaching 4k posts... any ideas?

Faskalia

<!--quoteo(post=1653911:date=Oct 4 2007, 06:31 AM:name=Gwahir)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gwahir @ Oct 4 2007, 06:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1653911"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I had an interesting moment today. I was dominated and had my revenge within one second's time. I was a demo man, I was rocket killed and my grenade went off and killed the soldier one moment later.

edit: I seem to be approaching 4k posts... any ideas?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cake for everyone?

Or you could get a decent sig. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" />

Shockeh

You're all weirdos on Spies v Engineers, I've decided.

Look, it's very simple. If you're quick, you just wait for the Engineer to be repairing the Sentry mid combat, then stab the Engineer and really quickly go '2' 'Mouse1', and you can sap the turret long before it turns.

Voila, Engineer dead, Sentry going down, little chance of anyone noticing, (No, "Spy is sappin' mah sentry!" message) and you're on your merry way towards the Medic/HWG combo in front of you. It's really that simple, and works 9 times out of 10 for me. Fine, occasionally (because it doesn't seem to be predictable) the turret will spin hyper fast and gun you down, but even so, it usually means the turret will die, as it's now not being repaired from the inevitable Soldier rockets heading it's way.

Really, ignore the Guides. Engineer FIRST. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

- Shockwave

Svenpa

This got to be the most sinister looking soldier ever.

<a href="http://www.imagehosting.com" target="_blank"> <img src="http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i1216440_hurmukkaislookinggood.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

Kouji_San

<!--quoteo(post=1653911:date=Oct 4 2007, 06:31 AM:name=Gwahir)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gwahir @ Oct 4 2007, 06:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1653911"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I had an interesting moment today. I was dominated and had my revenge within one second's time. I was a demo man, I was rocket killed and my grenade went off and killed the soldier one moment later.

edit: I seem to be approaching 4k posts... any ideas?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Had the same thing happen to me. Demoman kills after you die are funny. Happens in Forgotten Hope sometimes to I shoot me M1 garand, while a buddy of mine has shot his K98 a fraction of a second earlier. I die and then 500ms he dies by my bullet due to traveltime of longrange bullets <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

doublekills FTW

And @4000 I'll have whipcream on my cake <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

Thansal

So, I really can't seem to get past 7 Kills with my SG for some reason.

I have had well placed SGs last the entire round, but never do I get more then 7 kills.

Hell, I defended CP A on gravel last night for an entire round. SG never went down, dominated the spy (god it is fun to wrench down Spies), yet capped at 7 Kills.

And just about every game I play as engie, I cap out at 7 kills.

remi

<!--quoteo(post=1653988:date=Oct 4 2007, 09:25 AM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thansal @ Oct 4 2007, 09:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1653988"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, I really can't seem to get past 7 Kills with my SG for some reason.

I have had well placed SGs last the entire round, but never do I get more then 7 kills.

Hell, I defended CP A on gravel last night for an entire round. SG never went down, dominated the spy (god it is fun to wrench down Spies), yet capped at 7 Kills.

And just about every game I play as engie, I cap out at 7 kills.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's funny, I've only played TF2 once on my friends computer, and as an Engie I snuck up to like the entrance to their base and dropped a baby Sentry as a scout of the enemy team showed up. They were somewhat surprised to see me there, and I pulled out my shotgun and started dancing around their bullets while shooting them. Long story short, I distracted them long enough for my baby to get up, killing them off.

Now guys keep flooding out of their base, and I just keep shotgun+turreting them all away. I had to switch to my pistol a couple times.

I got like 10 kills total there, and only died after someone took out that baby sentry.

Aggressive Engineers are fun. I probably would have been screwed if there had been a heavy but it was all the more squishy classes.

DiscoZombie

I was playing on a server last night and literally about 7 people were blaring noise over the voicecomm... it took me a few minutes to figure out how to mute people (is there an easier way than via the main menu?)... I was surprised to see so many asshats on one server, but then I looked at the server name...

4chan...

then it all made sense.

Luukas

<!--quoteo(post=1653987:date=Oct 4 2007, 04:23 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kouji_San @ Oct 4 2007, 04:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1653987"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->doublekills FTW<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<u>Yes.</u>

<img src="http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8258/buriningsa6.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

I had a whopping 1hp left after he dropped dead. And there was a dispenser just next to the doorway on the left *sigh* <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

Kouji_San

<!--quoteo(post=1653988:date=Oct 4 2007, 03:25 PM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thansal @ Oct 4 2007, 03:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1653988"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, I really can't seem to get past 7 Kills with my SG for some reason.

I have had well placed SGs last the entire round, but never do I get more then 7 kills.

Hell, I defended CP A on gravel last night for an entire round. SG never went down, dominated the spy (god it is fun to wrench down Spies), yet capped at 7 Kills.

And just about every game I play as engie, I cap out at 7 kills.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most sentry kills:9 (SO CLOSE) is what I have, on 2fort I think it was. But after that people tend to know where you are and use demo/soldier or grouprush to destroy your turret faster then you can fix it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

when there is no pyro on the defense, I usually go pyro and help out the engineers their defence by firing it up <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

Thansal

<!--quoteo(post=1653991:date=Oct 4 2007, 09:47 AM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Psyke @ Oct 4 2007, 09:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1653991"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's funny, I've only played TF2 once on my friends computer, and as an Engie I snuck up to like the entrance to their base and dropped a baby Sentry as a scout of the enemy team showed up. They were somewhat surprised to see me there, and I pulled out my shotgun and started dancing around their bullets while shooting them. Long story short, I distracted them long enough for my baby to get up, killing them off.

Now guys keep flooding out of their base, and I just keep shotgun+turreting them all away. I had to switch to my pistol a couple times.

I got like 10 kills total there, and only died after someone took out that baby sentry.

Aggressive Engineers are fun. I probably would have been screwed if there had been a heavy but it was all the more squishy classes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I was referring to was the achievement that calls for you to get 10 SG kills with one SG. My score for the last good round I had as an engie was 20 (never died, defended the CP constantly, and decimated the baddies, but only got 7 SG kills)

DiscoZombie

Most sentry kills:14 (as Engineer)

a steady stream of sentry kills is definitely easiest to get on a map where you're doing nothing but defending. if you pick a good spot, especially when the timer is running out and the enemy is getting increasinly desperate to bum rush a point, you can milk them for all they're worth.

Thansal

<!--quoteo(post=1654000:date=Oct 4 2007, 10:00 AM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoZombie @ Oct 4 2007, 10:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1654000"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Most sentry kills:14 (as Engineer)

a steady stream of sentry kills is definitely easiest to get on a map where you're doing nothing but defending. if you pick a good spot, especially when the timer is running out and the enemy is getting increasingly desperate to bum rush a point, you can milk them for all they're worth.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As I said, the enemy team just sorta gave up.

I had a SG up from the start at CP A, got a few kills, and then they just sorta gave up trying to get to it. Same deal on Two Fort. If I set up in the ramp room, they avoid the ramp room. Set up in the Main ramp? Avoid that. Set up in the flag room? Well no one ever actually gets PAST the 3 other engies that eventually set up upstairs.

Crispy

<!--quoteo(post=1653988:date=Oct 4 2007, 02:25 PM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thansal @ Oct 4 2007, 02:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1653988"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, I really can't seem to get past 7 Kills with my SG for some reason.

I have had well placed SGs last the entire round, but never do I get more then 7 kills.

Hell, I defended CP A on gravel last night for an entire round. SG never went down, dominated the spy (god it is fun to wrench down Spies), yet capped at 7 Kills.

And just about every game I play as engie, I cap out at 7 kills.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You won't get the sentry kills achievement on Gravel Pit or Hydro, the rounds are too short. It's easier to get 10 kills on Well or Granary where the CPs are changing hands more rapidly and the total maptime is drawn out more.

If you stick your sentry on the 2nd CP you'll stand the best chance (or possibly on the 2nd CP but you have to be a) good enough to set it up and get it to level 3 without it dying and b) have teammates who take out demos, soldiers and heavies for you so you only have to worry about Spies).

lolfighter

ENOUGH TALK ABOUT THE F***ING SPIES AND ENGINEERS NOW! STFU ABOUT THE SPIES AND ENGINEERS.

Instead, tell me how fun medic is. It BETTER be fun. Otherwise, violence IS going to ensue.