When I read the subject, I thought it meant just the opposite. Obviously the pts and vets hate us because we are noobs and we are annoying. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
There is absolutely no reason to automatically dislike somebody because they happen to be a vet or playtester, that's just ignorant. I can't believe anybody can even defend the concept.
I hate elitists too, but not all vets are elitists, hell, I doubt all elitists are even vets.
I have to say this: If anyone has any questions or qualms about the ammount of playtesting done or the quality of it feel free to pm me in irc... <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> #naturalselection.
I think people that know a PT / Vet, more likely dont feel anything bad about them on the whole. I'd probably be jealous of them myself if I wasn't friends with one and I relize they are just losers like all of us <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
One more post here, To those of you who dont like the vets because they were chosed because they were 'elietist clan ****' I have a few words for ya.
1) I can only think of 2 veterans or so I would call elietist. 2) Most of the vets are great guys and contributed as much, if not more to NS than many of the playtesters. 3) The veterans did Just as much testing as the rest of us did, just to illustrate my point: 12 guys(myself, flay, grepdashv, elven thief, silverwolf, andrew and some more) pulled the last 3 nights before release with anywhere from 5 to 0 hours of sleep, all those sleepless hours were spent bug and balance testing the game you have now, more than half of those people were also vets. 4) Its a free mod, if you dont like it, suyf and go play another game, we(the playtesters, vets, and dev members) spent a LOT of our time trying to make NS as good as it can be, we werent payed or anything of that nature, we didnt tell flay: OMGZ GIVE US ICONZ J00 NOOB!11, flay gave us icons for some reason of his own choosing, we didnt ask for a reward. 5) Be afraid when grendel sees this topic... VERY afraid.
Someone said it earlier, the problem is that when we tested, as marines, we worked as a team, its hard not to when you want to play your best. The problem with pubs is that the marine side is SO team based, that they are getting pawned more often than not because no one works as a team properly /edit and yes, be *VERY* afraid when Grendel gets here...
I still will never understand why people treat you guys like crap. Keep in mind, there's tons of us that absolutely love you guys (myself included <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->, and that's all that matters right? Ignore all those stupid **** that complain. NS is an AWESOME game, NS is a fun game, noone deserves to have to deal with the crap you guys put up with.
/me sends hugs and lovin' *pat, pat* "There, there, it'll be ok."
Eventually those loosers will shut up! Don't let them bug you, they are just jelous because you guys are so cool. Don't sweat it! Sorry guys. " Um considering how Grendal's post will be some thing like "You **** **** **** stupid ****!" I don't think it will accomplish much. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hah, Whiners never shut up; they will be jealous for a very long time; especially as long as the game is unbalanced. It makes em feel better `bout themselves.
My take on it is this. I am greatful that the vets/pts were there to help. I am also greatful of the time they spent testing something for us. MY problem is the attitude some veterans cop with me. I am fed up with that also, so can't we all just chill out?
<!--QuoteBegin--NSPlayaGirl+Aug 24 2003, 06:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NSPlayaGirl @ Aug 24 2003, 06:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ignore all those stupid **** that complain <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Im not stupid, I complain because I feel it can only help the game. A good majority of those that whine are the same ones that care the most. If we didnt complain, who would be here to point out the small tricky things testers galore can miss. I don't think Im a stupid "****" for trying to help. I am proud of what I try to do. I wouldn't post here if I didn't care.
/EDIT A bunch of "yes" men is a way to reach failure VERY quickly.
But theres a difference between the people who whine about the game, because they want to help it, and the people that whine that the PT'ers and Vets sucked at their job, and were/are useless. I think that's what Jane meant by ignoring the stupid people, the ones who whine about the vets.
<!--QuoteBegin--Sirus+Aug 24 2003, 05:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sirus @ Aug 24 2003, 05:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Also, the public testing has just proven that you guys don't know what the hell you want, nor know how the hell to fix anything, there's a hundred different people blaming different things. During most playtests, everyone had an idea of the sources of problems, during testing alot of the Vets and Playtester paid hard attention to the root of the problem, seeking why something would come up unbalanced, problems are usually below the surface. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Man, what are you talking about Sirus? The public makes lots of good suggestions on the public beta forums!
Take this one for example:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->all these rine changes what did aliens get ? less noise of cloaking woohoo so basically nothing at all again. Making things easier for rines every patch its meant to be balanced but rines can hold 2 nodes and farm and up grade whilst aliens have night mares taking it out due to gl spam and farm and when rines are full upgraded with ha etc nothing can stop em even if aliens control 3/4 of the map lvl 3 rines vs fuly equipped aliens rines own easily. as alien we got the onos lol they die easy and redemp quicker than u can say lol theres a onos. im not flaiming i like the 2.0 patches but can u beef aliens up a bit as well. as aliens aint getting nothing atm <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some more good suggestions:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Flay: Put the shotty back to 10/50, reduce the damage by 5-10 per shot, speed up the reloading, and slow down the ROF.
I'd like it if we could PLEASE have the Hive levels again, i.e 2 hives = fade, 3 hives = onos (etc.)
Also, PLEASE de-nerf the jetpack, please, please, PLEASE!
This isn't meant to be an unconstructive flame, but to put it with no tact at al, it's useless!
Sure, reduce the fuel, by all means, but give us back the REAL jetpack
You just seem to "hover" with this one, the 1.0x JP was amazing and overpowered, just put it back to 1.04 levels and decrease the fuel by 1/4 - 1/3 or 1/2 (if you're feeling evil ) - just my 4 cents <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And another piece of gameplay brillance:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Personally, (this is just me) I think hive should be 40 res. Although this isn't much more than 35, it is a psychological barrier (35 res, wow, cheap! 40 res??? OMG!). Just like £9.99 sounds cheaper than £10 <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think all people agree along the same lines and all find the root of the problem contrary to what you think:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, I tend to agree that HAs probably don't need the "light damage" category, what with welders and all. But it makes some sense for JPs for game play reasons -- though I'm not sure what in-game explanation you could use. Maybe fumes from the JPs break up the OC spikes somewhat? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I would also be against adding Fades, or Lerks to the "Light" damage list, unless you add Skulks, or and Lerks to dealing "Light" damage to an HA. In my opinion turrets are underpowered compared to OC's as it is. Unless there are several marines watching the turrets I can destroy a turret farm as almost any evolution, yet as a Marine I find it difficult to take down a few well placed OC's since the ol' "hiding halfway around a corner" doesn't work now that the OC's are much more accurate. Just my opinion tho.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What about just lowering HMG cost to 15? (With current piercing damage and everything) It would be used as much as shottie with lower price. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->all looks good although i'm not convinced about the reduction of power for umbra... as a move it is used relatively little as it is, and with the increase of grenade damage, i can see this being shunned away and hardly ever being used.
also, there any update on a replacement for pheremones yet? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->gee, marines are finally learing to play and win and were nerfing aliens, Great back to old days were mariens dominate. WE have a decent group of regulars On our server and our allies. With out patches were strating to see marine wins at 50%+ Between turrets mines and shot guns (all negelcted items by the loudest complainers) marines are Vary good. Oh well I give up. Maby ppl will get back to working on NS1.5 (unafficial) With in a few months aliens are going to be unplayable (or at least no fun) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Reduce redemption effectiveness on the onos.Either make it so they can only redempt 2/3 times then have to get another upgrade,or make it take longer to redempt the onos,giving marines more time to get a few more shotty/hmg shots off to kill it.
Reduce effectiveness of stomp....that thing is obscene.All you need is stomp,digest,run away..the marines CANNOT rescue their teamamte unless we are talking uber stupid onos who gets stuck.Or you could get a 2nd onos to stomp all the time while you slowly gore the marines to death.Make it take away like 75% of your energy bar or something.
Increase alien RT cost.Why?Why NOT?A skulk eating a marine RT has a very good chance of killing it by himself.A gorg + a skulk = dead marine rt,elect or not.If marines try to do the same thing they are pwned by the entire skulk team within seconds.Early game,there is NO way marines can take down alien RTs unless they have UBER shooters or the alien team is too stupid to defend their RTs.You could also try making skulk bites do less damage to RTs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's no such thing as unrelated or off-topic posts over there:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->first time I read this I thought "half damage" meant it dealt damage equal to half the health of an Onos so 2 shots = dead onos <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Blah, blah, blah balance idea, don't like nerfed aliens, blah, blah, marines too powerful, blah, blah, onos too powerful, blah incorporate scorpian that hovars without flapping in next patch, more blah, oh yeah, this isn't the suggestions and idea forum, maybe I should limit my response to feedback concerning specific changes and not making new ones. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i meant they can still fly around forever with 1/2 fuel, with full fuel the 1.04 people with good video card dont even get down 1/8 fuel <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->whats with calling it 2.1a instead of2.01d? Is this going to be a client-side patch as well? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->wut do u mean you "hope so"....changes for 2.01d SUCK **** MAN! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All of the posts are coherant:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just run past the grenade spam? Ok picture this, ALIENS(I hate when I think one thing and type the other, sorry) have all 3 hives and all res nodes cept for marine start on caged. Commander drops like 4 grenade launchers and the marines use them to cover all 3 ways into the marine start by HOLDING +USE on the armory while shooting the grenade launcher they can shoot infinately without even reloading. But since there is res for kills the aliens zerg into the marine start and the marines get res, eventually push out 20 mins later of grenade spam and take a hive, eventually winning the game.. Don't you think if the aliens have all res nodes and all 3 hives they should have a way to stop or counter grenade spam? Combine it with turret spam and you have an inpenatratable fortress. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Anyhow Sirus, maybe you should think before you speak d00d!1
There are lots of more intellegent posts out there just waiting to be read, so don't be so quick to judge.
[/SARCASM]
I'd do more, but I'm bored. Most of the people who think the playtesters did a crappy job are terrible playtesters themselves.
So let me get this straight. You can shoot/bite well, get into a hyped clan, and manage "veteran"status, so that automatically makes you wiser, more intelligent, able to use logic, and have extreme good perception of public attitudes/psychology/game methods/list continues? Man, I guess I am missing out on clan play if it does all that.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->QUOTE (Sirus @ Aug 24 2003, 05:50 PM) Also, the public testing has just proven that you guys don't know what the hell you want, nor know how the hell to fix anything, there's a hundred different people blaming different things. During most playtests, everyone had an idea of the sources of problems, during testing alot of the Vets and Playtester paid hard attention to the root of the problem, seeking why something would come up unbalanced, problems are usually below the surface. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Aug 24 2003, 06:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Aug 24 2003, 06:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So let me get this straight. You can shoot/bite well, get into a hyped clan, and manage "veteran"status, so that automatically makes you wiser, more intelligent, able to use logic, and have extreme good perception of public attitudes/psychology/game methods/list continues? Man, I guess I am missing out on clan play if it does all that.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->QUOTE (Sirus @ Aug 24 2003, 05:50 PM) Also, the public testing has just proven that you guys don't know what the hell you want, nor know how the hell to fix anything, there's a hundred different people blaming different things. During most playtests, everyone had an idea of the sources of problems, during testing alot of the Vets and Playtester paid hard attention to the root of the problem, seeking why something would come up unbalanced, problems are usually below the surface. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Usually the people who are the best at the game understand it the most.
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Aug 24 2003, 07:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Aug 24 2003, 07:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So let me get this straight. You can shoot/bite well, get into a hyped clan, and manage "veteran"status, so that automatically makes you wiser, more intelligent, able to use logic, and have extreme good perception of public attitudes/psychology/game methods/list continues? Man, I guess I am missing out on clan play if it does all that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So let me get this straight... you can go to Harvard, graduate Valedictorian <i>magna cu</i><i>m laude</i> with a double major in rocket science and Literature, and be a founding member of Mensa, and that automatically makes you capable of singlehandedly winning the CAL CS 6v6 tournament (except it's 6v1, because you don't need teammates)?
Every playtester and vet brings his/her own skills and strengths to playtesting. Flayra specifically recruited clans to test NS at a higher level of skill than the playtesters could.
And that said, assuming that Vets *aren't* smart, logical, or otherwise intelligent - merely because they are clanners - is the worst kind of bigoted, unthinking, closed-minded generalization you can make. Stick around, let me see if I can find you a nice pointy white hat to wear.
To everyone here who claims they did a crap job of testing, please, give me your WONId's so I can be the whiney little people that you are.
As for the vets, its a love hate love relationship. Some of the people, I think, are just arrogant jerks, others are very nice, polite people, i.e Silverwolf, Pump N Scoot etc. There's nothing wrong with being a vet, there are just some jerks amonsgt you, but there are just as high a precentage of jerks among the "normal" crowd.
<!--QuoteBegin--DramaKing+Aug 24 2003, 07:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DramaKing @ Aug 24 2003, 07:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Aug 24 2003, 06:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Aug 24 2003, 06:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So let me get this straight. You can shoot/bite well, get into a hyped clan, and manage "veteran"status, so that automatically makes you wiser, more intelligent, able to use logic, and have extreme good perception of public attitudes/psychology/game methods/list continues? Man, I guess I am missing out on clan play if it does all that.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->QUOTE (Sirus @ Aug 24 2003, 05:50 PM) Also, the public testing has just proven that you guys don't know what the hell you want, nor know how the hell to fix anything, there's a hundred different people blaming different things. During most playtests, everyone had an idea of the sources of problems, during testing alot of the Vets and Playtester paid hard attention to the root of the problem, seeking why something would come up unbalanced, problems are usually below the surface. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Usually the people who are the best at the game understand it the most. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't hold that kind of attitude man. Thats the problem, some people find that arrogant, while I see that you were only defending yourself as a vet, its just.... upsetting to others from what I can tell.
not many servers have this attitude towards vets anyways. ive never been hassled for being a veteran... people might joke around when you die and they say "you failed us! *gasp*"
when people do hassle me / us as veterans - i just mute them and tell them to SUYF...
and the game may be unbalanced... but 2.0 requires more of an offensive team then a defensive. in 1.04 it was get 2 rt, drop 1 pack of mines, tech up to jp + hmg and nail the hive which brings me to the point that alot of marine losses are due to the marine commander. if he doesnt organize the team + play aggresivly then you should and will lose.
so stop complaining about the people who play and go play the game yourself ^_^
*edit*
we have had this kind of post / conversation so many times.. why does it keep being brought up?
{Edit: This was re: DramaKing, but this thread moves kinda quickly... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->}
Just because a clan is successful does NOT mean they are intelligent.
In another game I play (and unlike NS, clan in), there is one North American clan who are undisputedly one of the best clans in the scene. And you know what? The whole clan is a collective of arrogant a$$holes who think that just because they rule the ladder, that their sh*t don't stink. One of my current clanmates was good enough to be accepted into their outfit, so he left us to join "the best NA clan". Two weeks later, he was begging for us to take him back because he couldn't stand his new teammates. If that clan were to be made into a new group of beta testers for the game, the community would go NUTS, guaranteed.
That said, there are a lot of older clans, who are both talented, and very well respected across the community (including mine - which is why I joined them instead of some other more promising upstarts). Point is, you get all colours of the rainbow in a clan scene. Anyone claiming that "all clanners are brilliant/idiots" is wrong. You can't generalize something like that. There are just too many combinations of people to end up with pure black or pure white. So you can't claim that all Vets are the cream of the community. And you shouldn't posess a seething hatred for them either. Like any group, its a mix. And whatever you get, you get, and you make the best of it.
Wow lots of responses. Lots of good points. Life Lesson: Stop kicking me from servers <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Evo+Aug 25 2003, 02:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Evo @ Aug 25 2003, 02:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The whole clan is a collective of arrogant a$$holes who think that just because they rule the ladder, that their sh*t don't stink. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hm, that reminds me of a European NS clan which (for some odd reason) didn't get into Playtesting...
Put it this way: I hate you all because I'm not a PT or a vet. So there. *pouts* <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
However seriously:
I think I know where some of these haters are coming from. I honestly think that <i>most</i> who yell at the PT's/Vets are eithergreen with jealousy or just .Plain .Stupid.
While I don't believe that the 2.0 testing cycle needed to be as long as it was, especially since it was "evolving" in the non-fun direction anyhow - instant change was a needed thing. I shudder to think of the public state of the game if it was kept as clanplay-centric as it was. I remember being quite angry that the patch was being pretty much designed for organized clan play.
Unfortunately, despite the multitudes of playtesters and other special people, precious few thought to balance the game for the public servers, which is where I think the hate originated.
Personally - I'm not a PT hater; as a matter of fact, I act as amiably and respectably to them as I possibly can. I truly believe that they are indeed an integral part of the development team. I just disagree with how many there are and the attitudes of some.
That off my chest, I will state now that I have never and will never disliked the playtesters.
<i>PT-haters: Try to act a little more mature in the future. Please realize that the game is taking shape and will someday be [I]everything you hope it will be</i>. if you refuse to wait, then find a damn hobby. I hear model boats are fun. [/I]
<i>And vets - please try to be understanding and don't take the criticism you're recieving in the wrong way. Although it doesn't seem it, you folks are quite esteemed and respected. Don't tarnish that image by creating a schism between the thrall and yourselves. Those who spout it are desperately scrabbling for some answer to their supposed "2.0 woes." In short: Just smile, nod, and keep doing what you guys do best <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> </i>
Please lets end this foolish argument and restore the community to order once again.
Comments
There is absolutely no reason to automatically dislike somebody because they happen to be a vet or playtester, that's just ignorant. I can't believe anybody can even defend the concept.
I hate elitists too, but not all vets are elitists, hell, I doubt all elitists are even vets.
1) I can only think of 2 veterans or so I would call elietist.
2) Most of the vets are great guys and contributed as much, if not more to NS than many of the playtesters.
3) The veterans did Just as much testing as the rest of us did, just to illustrate my point: 12 guys(myself, flay, grepdashv, elven thief, silverwolf, andrew and some more) pulled the last 3 nights before release with anywhere from 5 to 0 hours of sleep, all those sleepless hours were spent bug and balance testing the game you have now, more than half of those people were also vets.
4) Its a free mod, if you dont like it, suyf and go play another game, we(the playtesters, vets, and dev members) spent a LOT of our time trying to make NS as good as it can be, we werent payed or anything of that nature, we didnt tell flay: OMGZ GIVE US ICONZ J00 NOOB!11, flay gave us icons for some reason of his own choosing, we didnt ask for a reward.
5) Be afraid when grendel sees this topic... VERY afraid.
/edit and yes, be *VERY* afraid when Grendel gets here...
/me sends hugs and lovin' *pat, pat* "There, there, it'll be ok."
Eventually those loosers will shut up! Don't let them bug you, they are just jelous because you guys are so cool. Don't sweat it! Sorry guys.
"
Um considering how Grendal's post will be some thing like "You **** **** **** stupid ****!" I don't think it will accomplish much. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
--Jane
Hah, Whiners never shut up; they will be jealous for a very long time; especially as long as the game is unbalanced. It makes em feel better `bout themselves.
Im not stupid, I complain because I feel it can only help the game. A good majority of those that whine are the same ones that care the most. If we didnt complain, who would be here to point out the small tricky things testers galore can miss. I don't think Im a stupid "****" for trying to help. I am proud of what I try to do. I wouldn't post here if I didn't care.
/EDIT A bunch of "yes" men is a way to reach failure VERY quickly.
Man, what are you talking about Sirus? The public makes lots of good suggestions on the public beta forums!
Take this one for example:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->all these rine changes what did aliens get ? less noise of cloaking woohoo so basically nothing at all again.
Making things easier for rines every patch its meant to be balanced but rines can hold 2 nodes and farm and up grade whilst aliens have night mares taking it out due to gl spam and farm and when rines are full upgraded with ha etc nothing can stop em even if aliens control 3/4 of the map lvl 3 rines vs fuly equipped aliens rines own easily. as alien we got the onos lol they die easy and redemp quicker than u can say lol theres a onos. im not flaiming i like the 2.0 patches but can u beef aliens up a bit as well. as aliens aint getting nothing atm <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some more good suggestions:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Flay: Put the shotty back to 10/50, reduce the damage by 5-10 per shot, speed up the reloading, and slow down the ROF.
I'd like it if we could PLEASE have the Hive levels again, i.e 2 hives = fade, 3 hives = onos (etc.)
Also, PLEASE de-nerf the jetpack, please, please, PLEASE!
This isn't meant to be an unconstructive flame, but to put it with no tact at al, it's useless!
Sure, reduce the fuel, by all means, but give us back the REAL jetpack
You just seem to "hover" with this one, the 1.0x JP was amazing and overpowered, just put it back to 1.04 levels and decrease the fuel by 1/4 - 1/3 or 1/2 (if you're feeling evil ) - just my 4 cents <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And another piece of gameplay brillance:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Personally, (this is just me) I think hive should be 40 res. Although this isn't much more than 35, it is a psychological barrier (35 res, wow, cheap! 40 res??? OMG!). Just like £9.99 sounds cheaper than £10
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think all people agree along the same lines and all find the root of the problem contrary to what you think:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, I tend to agree that HAs probably don't need the "light damage" category, what with welders and all. But it makes some sense for JPs for game play reasons -- though I'm not sure what in-game explanation you could use. Maybe fumes from the JPs break up the OC spikes somewhat?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I would also be against adding Fades, or Lerks to the "Light" damage list, unless you add Skulks, or and Lerks to dealing "Light" damage to an HA. In my opinion turrets are underpowered compared to OC's as it is. Unless there are several marines watching the turrets I can destroy a turret farm as almost any evolution, yet as a Marine I find it difficult to take down a few well placed OC's since the ol' "hiding halfway around a corner" doesn't work now that the OC's are much more accurate. Just my opinion tho.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What about just lowering HMG cost to 15? (With current piercing damage and everything)
It would be used as much as shottie with lower price.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->all looks good although i'm not convinced about the reduction of power for umbra... as a move it is used relatively little as it is, and with the increase of grenade damage, i can see this being shunned away and hardly ever being used.
also, there any update on a replacement for pheremones yet? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->gee, marines are finally learing to play and win and were nerfing aliens, Great back to old days were mariens dominate. WE have a decent group of regulars On our server and our allies. With out patches were strating to see marine wins at 50%+
Between turrets mines and shot guns (all negelcted items by the loudest complainers) marines are Vary good.
Oh well I give up. Maby ppl will get back to working on NS1.5 (unafficial)
With in a few months aliens are going to be unplayable (or at least no fun)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Reduce redemption effectiveness on the onos.Either make it so they can only redempt 2/3 times then have to get another upgrade,or make it take longer to redempt the onos,giving marines more time to get a few more shotty/hmg shots off to kill it.
Reduce effectiveness of stomp....that thing is obscene.All you need is stomp,digest,run away..the marines CANNOT rescue their teamamte unless we are talking uber stupid onos who gets stuck.Or you could get a 2nd onos to stomp all the time while you slowly gore the marines to death.Make it take away like 75% of your energy bar or something.
Increase alien RT cost.Why?Why NOT?A skulk eating a marine RT has a very good chance of killing it by himself.A gorg + a skulk = dead marine rt,elect or not.If marines try to do the same thing they are pwned by the entire skulk team within seconds.Early game,there is NO way marines can take down alien RTs unless they have UBER shooters or the alien team is too stupid to defend their RTs.You could also try making skulk bites do less damage to RTs.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's no such thing as unrelated or off-topic posts over there:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->first time I read this I thought "half damage" meant it dealt damage equal to half the health of an Onos so 2 shots = dead onos <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Blah, blah, blah balance idea, don't like nerfed aliens, blah, blah, marines too powerful, blah, blah, onos too powerful, blah incorporate scorpian that hovars without flapping in next patch, more blah, oh yeah, this isn't the suggestions and idea forum, maybe I should limit my response to feedback concerning specific changes and not making new ones. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i meant they can still fly around forever with 1/2 fuel, with full fuel the 1.04 people with good video card dont even get down 1/8 fuel <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->whats with calling it 2.1a instead of2.01d? Is this going to be a client-side patch as well?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->wut do u mean you "hope so"....changes for 2.01d SUCK **** MAN!
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All of the posts are coherant:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just run past the grenade spam? Ok picture this, ALIENS(I hate when I think one thing and type the other, sorry) have all 3 hives and all res nodes cept for marine start on caged. Commander drops like 4 grenade launchers and the marines use them to cover all 3 ways into the marine start by HOLDING +USE on the armory while shooting the grenade launcher they can shoot infinately without even reloading. But since there is res for kills the aliens zerg into the marine start and the marines get res, eventually push out 20 mins later of grenade spam and take a hive, eventually winning the game.. Don't you think if the aliens have all res nodes and all 3 hives they should have a way to stop or counter grenade spam? Combine it with turret spam and you have an inpenatratable fortress.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Anyhow Sirus, maybe you should think before you speak d00d!1
There are lots of more intellegent posts out there just waiting to be read, so don't be so quick to judge.
[/SARCASM]
I'd do more, but I'm bored. Most of the people who think the playtesters did a crappy job are terrible playtesters themselves.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->QUOTE (Sirus @ Aug 24 2003, 05:50 PM)
Also, the public testing has just proven that you guys don't know what the hell you want, nor know how the hell to fix anything, there's a hundred different people blaming different things. During most playtests, everyone had an idea of the sources of problems, during testing alot of the Vets and Playtester paid hard attention to the root of the problem, seeking why something would come up unbalanced, problems are usually below the surface. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->QUOTE (Sirus @ Aug 24 2003, 05:50 PM)
Also, the public testing has just proven that you guys don't know what the hell you want, nor know how the hell to fix anything, there's a hundred different people blaming different things. During most playtests, everyone had an idea of the sources of problems, during testing alot of the Vets and Playtester paid hard attention to the root of the problem, seeking why something would come up unbalanced, problems are usually below the surface. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Usually the people who are the best at the game understand it the most.
So let me get this straight... you can go to Harvard, graduate Valedictorian <i>magna cu</i><i>m laude</i> with a double major in rocket science and Literature, and be a founding member of Mensa, and that automatically makes you capable of singlehandedly winning the CAL CS 6v6 tournament (except it's 6v1, because you don't need teammates)?
Every playtester and vet brings his/her own skills and strengths to playtesting. Flayra specifically recruited clans to test NS at a higher level of skill than the playtesters could.
And that said, assuming that Vets *aren't* smart, logical, or otherwise intelligent - merely because they are clanners - is the worst kind of bigoted, unthinking, closed-minded generalization you can make. Stick around, let me see if I can find you a nice pointy white hat to wear.
To everyone here who claims they did a crap job of testing, please, give me your WONId's so I can be the whiney little people that you are.
As for the vets, its a love hate love relationship. Some of the people, I think, are just arrogant jerks, others are very nice, polite people, i.e Silverwolf, Pump N Scoot etc. There's nothing wrong with being a vet, there are just some jerks amonsgt you, but there are just as high a precentage of jerks among the "normal" crowd.
I think the vets and pts did a great job and I know Flayra feels the same way.
Max
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->QUOTE (Sirus @ Aug 24 2003, 05:50 PM)
Also, the public testing has just proven that you guys don't know what the hell you want, nor know how the hell to fix anything, there's a hundred different people blaming different things. During most playtests, everyone had an idea of the sources of problems, during testing alot of the Vets and Playtester paid hard attention to the root of the problem, seeking why something would come up unbalanced, problems are usually below the surface. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Usually the people who are the best at the game understand it the most. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't hold that kind of attitude man. Thats the problem, some people find that arrogant, while I see that you were only defending yourself as a vet, its just.... upsetting to others from what I can tell.
-Cpl. Hicks
when people do hassle me / us as veterans - i just mute them and tell them to SUYF...
and the game may be unbalanced... but 2.0 requires more of an offensive team then a defensive. in 1.04 it was get 2 rt, drop 1 pack of mines, tech up to jp + hmg and nail the hive which brings me to the point that alot of marine losses are due to the marine commander. if he doesnt organize the team + play aggresivly then you should and will lose.
so stop complaining about the people who play and go play the game yourself ^_^
*edit*
we have had this kind of post / conversation so many times.. why does it keep being brought up?
-Cpl. Hicks <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which post, my first or second one?
Just because a clan is successful does NOT mean they are intelligent.
In another game I play (and unlike NS, clan in), there is one North American clan who are undisputedly one of the best clans in the scene. And you know what? The whole clan is a collective of arrogant a$$holes who think that just because they rule the ladder, that their sh*t don't stink.
One of my current clanmates was good enough to be accepted into their outfit, so he left us to join "the best NA clan". Two weeks later, he was begging for us to take him back because he couldn't stand his new teammates.
If that clan were to be made into a new group of beta testers for the game, the community would go NUTS, guaranteed.
That said, there are a lot of older clans, who are both talented, and very well respected across the community (including mine - which is why I joined them instead of some other more promising upstarts). Point is, you get all colours of the rainbow in a clan scene. Anyone claiming that "all clanners are brilliant/idiots" is wrong. You can't generalize something like that. There are just too many combinations of people to end up with pure black or pure white. So you can't claim that all Vets are the cream of the community. And you shouldn't posess a seething hatred for them either. Like any group, its a mix. And whatever you get, you get, and you make the best of it.
Peace <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hm, that reminds me of a European NS clan which (for some odd reason) didn't get into Playtesting...
I like Ns.
I like pts.
I like vets...
Slurp.
However seriously:
I think I know where some of these haters are coming from. I honestly think that <i>most</i> who yell at the PT's/Vets are eithergreen with jealousy or just .Plain .Stupid.
While I don't believe that the 2.0 testing cycle needed to be as long as it was, especially since it was "evolving" in the non-fun direction anyhow - instant change was a needed thing. I shudder to think of the public state of the game if it was kept as clanplay-centric as it was. I remember being quite angry that the patch was being pretty much designed for organized clan play.
Unfortunately, despite the multitudes of playtesters and other special people, precious few thought to balance the game for the public servers, which is where I think the hate originated.
Personally - I'm not a PT hater; as a matter of fact, I act as amiably and respectably to them as I possibly can. I truly believe that they are indeed an integral part of the development team. I just disagree with how many there are and the attitudes of some.
That off my chest, I will state now that I have never and will never disliked the playtesters.
<i>PT-haters: Try to act a little more mature in the future. Please realize that the game is taking shape and will someday be [I]everything you hope it will be</i>. if you refuse to wait, then find a damn hobby. I hear model boats are fun. [/I]
<i>And vets - please try to be understanding and don't take the criticism you're recieving in the wrong way. Although it doesn't seem it, you folks are quite esteemed and respected. Don't tarnish that image by creating a schism between the thrall and yourselves. Those who spout it are desperately scrabbling for some answer to their supposed "2.0 woes." In short: Just smile, nod, and keep doing what you guys do best <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> </i>
Please lets end this foolish argument and restore the community to order once again.