If I took every experience and every post by every "Member" you would think I would have a pretty poor view of you guys don't you think ?
Do you think that would demand less respect for you ? Even if I just used every individuals post into account everytime I responded to them I would probably have a pretty sour attitude to everyone.
If anyone has a problem, they need to get over it. If they can't, they're only looking to please themselves and they're better of breaking themselves away from the NS community.
It's kind of sad to see such a good post starting to go sour, but I guess there's no help for it.
Zel, I think that othell is saying that they were supposed to keep the community hyped up about the impending 2.0 release. And what better way than to hint at all those new and wonderful goodies?
People <b><i>REALLY</i></b> need to learn to appreciate what the PTs and Vets did. Alot was done by them to make NS the awesome game it is today.
<!--QuoteBegin--Zel+Aug 25 2003, 12:03 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zel @ Aug 25 2003, 12:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--othell+Aug 24 2003, 11:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (othell @ Aug 24 2003, 11:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Nil_IQ+Aug 24 2003, 03:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nil_IQ @ Aug 24 2003, 03:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> *edit* Oh, and also the fact that you teased us for months by talking about 2.0, while simultaineously releasing very little info until the last week. Don't want to sound nasty or anything, but it really did seem like you were playing with us sometimes in those long weeks before 2.0 [/jealosy] *edit* <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That was our job.
Now the question is....... Did it work? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> when i see a vet being a jackass what am i supposed to think of this group of people?
edit: yeah im being prejudiced, but its human nature to think of things in similar groupings and apply reasoning on experience with the group as a whole <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Think of that veteran as a jackass? Or is that too hard for you. Tata for now!
It is easy to see that after all this time the game is not perfect. When I heard that the PTs of 1.0x NEVER tried a rush the entire playtest I thought the same about them (and still do). Now I have playtested and I can tell you this:
-If you have ever playtested before you would know that as an individual you have very little power, sure you can make suggestions but it is up to flayra weather or not he uses your input. That is why it is a closed beta: (pre-selected players who are dedicated to ns and who understand the game) to maximize useful feedback so you don't have to sift through so much bs. Bringing up specific examples is pointless, but not everyone in a playtest agrees with each other, and flayra (only human) usually has to choose between one idea and another, sometimes he makes the wrong decisions and it takes many weeks to identify the exact problem (in many cases it is not one factor that causes one team to be overpowered). You especially can't just suggest changing radical things (even if it is obvious to you that it is needed), you have to slowly change things and with one patch every 2 weeks, it takes a fair amount of time to get things rolling. -There are many other things that can account for an unbalanced game, but I can tell you it’s a hell of a lot better then some of the builds we played. I remember one of the most annoying things was when Flayra threw in random crap that totally unbalanced the game or when we got side tracked on minor issues or when there were so many bugs that the game was unbalanced.
Balancing the game is a very frustrating process for everyone involved: everyone wants their changes added, only a few of these changes are implemented by flayra, fewer still end up doing good for the game.
There were many things that should have been done differently and many things that people did wrong, but none of that really matters anymore. Most people have given up on trying to tell people how to run things, including myself. I wouldn’t go blaming anyone specifically unless you actually know what you are talking about (or unless you want to get banned), and if you don’t then there is no one person to blame (or applaud) for the outcome 2.0.
<!--QuoteBegin--coil+Aug 24 2003, 07:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Aug 24 2003, 07:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Aug 24 2003, 07:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Aug 24 2003, 07:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So let me get this straight. You can shoot/bite well, get into a hyped clan, and manage "veteran"status, so that automatically makes you wiser, more intelligent, able to use logic, and have extreme good perception of public attitudes/psychology/game methods/list continues? Man, I guess I am missing out on clan play if it does all that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So let me get this straight... you can go to Harvard, graduate Valedictorian <i>magna cu</i><i>m laude</i> with a double major in rocket science and Literature, and be a founding member of Mensa, and that automatically makes you capable of singlehandedly winning the CAL CS 6v6 tournament (except it's 6v1, because you don't need teammates)?
Every playtester and vet brings his/her own skills and strengths to playtesting. Flayra specifically recruited clans to test NS at a higher level of skill than the playtesters could.
And that said, assuming that Vets *aren't* smart, logical, or otherwise intelligent - merely because they are clanners - is the worst kind of bigoted, unthinking, closed-minded generalization you can make. Stick around, let me see if I can find you a nice pointy white hat to wear. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Pfft. Dont flame me dude, Im just speaking from experience. Then again, what do I know? Im just a pubber who sucks at ns, shouldn't be allowed to hold an opinion, and has nothing useful to say at all. And the only reason I post is to annoy. /sarcasm.
Alot of people are going to stop playing if this kind of an attitude continues. Like I said, people are just talking from experience. Personally I've never had issues with either. But seperating people over something so trivial is silly.
Btw how can I be a bigot against people I've never met....not to mention spoke with. (With the exception of the pts/admins/etc I play with on Lunix).
Thats cute, I've had two people flame me over something so stupid. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--DramaKing+Aug 25 2003, 05:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DramaKing @ Aug 25 2003, 05:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Zel+Aug 25 2003, 12:03 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zel @ Aug 25 2003, 12:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--othell+Aug 24 2003, 11:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (othell @ Aug 24 2003, 11:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Nil_IQ+Aug 24 2003, 03:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nil_IQ @ Aug 24 2003, 03:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> *edit* Oh, and also the fact that you teased us for months by talking about 2.0, while simultaineously releasing very little info until the last week. Don't want to sound nasty or anything, but it really did seem like you were playing with us sometimes in those long weeks before 2.0 [/jealosy] *edit* <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That was our job.
Now the question is....... Did it work? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> when i see a vet being a jackass what am i supposed to think of this group of people?
edit: yeah im being prejudiced, but its human nature to think of things in similar groupings and apply reasoning on experience with the group as a whole <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Think of that veteran as a jackass? Or is that too hard for you. Tata for now! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Did you not read the part that he edited?
If you saw a bum on the street mug somebody, wouldn't you think less of all bums before you got to know them?
Also, the quote in the original post was taken out of context. Nothing said on the GTW St. Louis server should ever be taken seriously.
I move that this be terminated. Everyone heres acting stupid and not in their right mind because of the heat of the moment thoughts we get JUST to get back at someone. It's human nature for revenge.... I say lock this.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Monkeybonk, I don't think you understand, it was so buggy that most of the time it would make you invincible until you typed kill in your console. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sirus, don't even try man. Monkeybonk would still say Fades were underpowered even if that was still in the game <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyways, on the actual topic: What do I think is the main reason people dislike the veterans? Simple. They're called veterans.
For some people that name seems to be implying that these people are better than us. That they have achieved a mastery of the game that we can never reach. Now if they were called, say, Beta Testers, I think that the vast majority of the hostility would go away. I have no hard feelings against the PTs or Vets or Devs (hey whats the dev icon? Just curious <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ), they're all just people to me (although I tremble in fear when I'm on a team facing Martigen <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ). But I do think that calling one of the groups "Veterans" rubbed some people the wrong way. Just my 2 cents.
That is somewhat people's own faults for reading into the term "veteran" too much.
I played in 2 top ns clans, [TE] (before disbanding), and briefly in ue. before I quit the game.
Per se, I am a veteran at this game, i've played since the first day of release and at the competitive level. But, I didn't stay in either, and I wasn't dedicated enough to be considered a candidate for veteran testing.
I don't have a problem with it, I still love the game and I like watching the progress; even if there are problems, I look at the issues as being anecdotes to remember. Something to remenisce (sp? >.<), with other long-time players.
As far as i'm concerned, there are very few if any overly arrogant pt's or vets. Most of the problem is the ignorance of many "regular" players, so to speak, as to the process that went into creating the current version. The arrogance is really just frustration with ignorance, to say the very least.
Some might say, just make them understand instead of being "arrogant", but it is just simply not worth the trouble for the rewards :/
I often wonder if alot of it is because peaple got owned by these peaple. I just faced a Vet comm... and his well-coordinated, jetpacking team just tore up our well coordinated Alien team. The sheer frustration level of trying to catch those **** only to have their comm med spam them was enough to make me want to throw my moniter out the window. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I don't hate the guy, but I'm sure starting to hate Jetpacks.
<!--QuoteBegin--Gadzuko+Aug 25 2003, 12:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gadzuko @ Aug 25 2003, 12:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--SoulSkorpion+Aug 24 2003, 10:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Aug 24 2003, 10:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 25 2003, 10:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 25 2003, 10:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Considering the fade is both a stamina hog, slow-moving, and has a hive2 ability that has NO USE whatsoever in combat... why was that removed? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Can I just point out that:
*If you get celerity instead of adrenaline, the Fade is by no means slow. *Blink is far from useless in combat. It's like uber-leap. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Pssst... Blink is hive 1. Metabolize is hive 2. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh yeah...
Weelll... maybe if you duck behind a TF you can heal up <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
You people <i>need to learn</i> that us Veterans are demi-gods and our every desire should be catered to. I demand plentiful medpacks, shotguns, mines, scanner sweeps, and not to have a structure dropped in my vicinity by a tactically inept comm. I play for fun and its just not fun when I can't play at my highest level or some comm wants me to do something that is going to get me owned. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
If you aren't willing to meet all of my demands, how about we compromise with medpacks and scanner sweeps <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--DeadRoach+Aug 25 2003, 01:57 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DeadRoach @ Aug 25 2003, 01:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't hate the guy, but I'm sure starting to hate Jetpacks. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You mean jumpjets?
I don't hate the vets, but I think that they shouldn't have been picked only from the elitest and best clans. The game has become too optimised for organised play, imo, which just doesn't hold up in publics very well. If only elite clans are used to playtest a game, then it's no wonder it seems unbalanaced in public games. No doubt all of the playtesting games were just incredible feats of teamwork, what with all those <b>"members of the most skilled clans"</b> playing it. All the feedback given was probobly to improve the teamwork constantly, until it has gotten to the point where the marine team needs teamwork too much to survive a game. Although this might be perfectly balanced to the elite clan memebers, this just isn't going to happen in a public server, where everyone is playing with nobody they've even met before.
Non-clan play just isn't going to hold up to way the game is best played, and that I feel is due to the fact that too many of the best clan memebers were chosen to playtest its development, though I'm probobly spouting crap so ignore me.
First of all: Judging a whole group of people on the behavior of one or two persons is just plain ignorancy. Most of the PTs and VETs I've met are very nice and dedicated people. Just as Khaim said, during the last days of playtesting and bughunting some of us almost got no sleep at some nights. Not to speak of the non-us playtesters like eggy... the time playtesting normally started was 4am local time.
Just have a look at M's list of changes/features that were implemented, tested, disussed (a LOT), tested again, discussed even more, and taken out or tweaked. It's easy to play the game a few rounds and then go spam the forums with "nah ns2.0 is soo imbalanc0rd!!111oneoneoneeleven"-threads and flaming Devs/PTs/Vets. But that has little to do with real playtesting. "normal" players (and this is not meant in any eleete way) just "bump" into problems... if you spend the whole night trying to FIND those nasty little bugs, reproduce them, get them confirmed by other testers, findein the root of the problem,... this is not fun, guys! For example there was a so-called "ghost player bug" we chased to several days... no fun at all.
You will find few to no playtester/vet who says 2.0 is perfectly balanced; because it isn't... but 2.0 is a lot lessunbalanced like all those whinners think, wich the beta patches prooved. And speaking of the public beta tests... while I found some people to give good productive feedback, most of the people where either drooling or flaming. Some without even having played the patch. The beta forum is full of so many comments aiming in so many directions... and of course everybody is perfectly right and everybody knows the ONE ONLY PERFECT answer to ALL the problems in NS and all the other people are just stoopid idiots that have no clue even if playing since NS came out... you get the point? no? then you're a hopeless case, sorry...
You got a quite balanced and FUN game here wich is not perfect, but it's being worked on. Devs are hard working to kill bugs and implement/tweak fetaures. PTs/Vets are discussing and testing to find and get rid of balance issues and other bugs. Istead of whinning you should go and try to adept to the gameplay and have some fun... and show some RESPECT if you want to be respected yourself!
<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> Can we end this discussion the longer it goes on the closer I am to...asking to end it again
<!--QuoteBegin--Maredtext+Aug 25 2003, 04:28 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Maredtext @ Aug 25 2003, 04:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--DeadRoach+Aug 25 2003, 01:57 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DeadRoach @ Aug 25 2003, 01:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't hate the guy, but I'm sure starting to hate Jetpacks. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You mean jumpjets? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Jetpacks. Learn to use them properly, and you can keep going on for ages. I was using one and stayed in the air for 5 minutes. Learn to ration your jetpack fuel, and don't waste it all on a huge burst.
The problem is that too many ppl arent teamplayers. If the marine team on a pub server would have teamplayers and not alot of rambos, they would win. And i think the dev´s and pt´s have done a great job. They have atleast made some people re think this rambo gaming stile and changed too be a teamplayer..and THATS GREAT ! So my hat is off for the people who tested NS 2.0
Quick thing here before i go to class: whoever said rines became to team oriented: MARINES ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE TEAMWORK OR THEY DIE, read the origional ns concepts, aliens are supposed to be more DM, marines are supposed to need/require teamwork, will expand on this more later, 1 minute till class starts!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sirus, don't even try man. Monkeybonk would still say Fades were underpowered even if that was still in the game<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Monkeybonk is more concerned about cost. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
This thread has only helped me appreciate the PTs and Vets evenmore. But I ask one thing, can we please get screenshots of ALL the icons available in NS?
<!--QuoteBegin--Zel+Aug 25 2003, 12:03 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zel @ Aug 25 2003, 12:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--othell+Aug 24 2003, 11:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (othell @ Aug 24 2003, 11:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Nil_IQ+Aug 24 2003, 03:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nil_IQ @ Aug 24 2003, 03:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> *edit* Oh, and also the fact that you teased us for months by talking about 2.0, while simultaineously releasing very little info until the last week. Don't want to sound nasty or anything, but it really did seem like you were playing with us sometimes in those long weeks before 2.0 [/jealosy] *edit* <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That was our job.
Now the question is....... Did it work? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> when i see a vet being a jackass what am i supposed to think of this group of people?
edit: yeah im being prejudiced, but its human nature to think of things in similar groupings and apply reasoning on experience with the group as a whole <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm trying to figure out why I was quoted.
I was responding to a post from an individual who did not like us teasing about 2.0....
Is the idea that we were supposed to keep you wetting your lips all that it takes to be called a jackass?
If so... I'm just going to go join critical with all his demands.... And I want em before him!
Comments
Do you think that would demand less respect for you ? Even if I just used every individuals post into account everytime I responded to them I would probably have a pretty sour attitude to everyone.
If anyone has a problem, they need to get over it. If they can't, they're only looking to please themselves and they're better of breaking themselves away from the NS community.
Zel, I think that othell is saying that they were supposed to keep the community hyped up about the impending 2.0 release. And what better way than to hint at all those new and wonderful goodies?
People <b><i>REALLY</i></b> need to learn to appreciate what the PTs and Vets did. Alot was done by them to make NS the awesome game it is today.
That was our job.
Now the question is....... Did it work? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
when i see a vet being a jackass what am i supposed to think of this group of people?
edit: yeah im being prejudiced, but its human nature to think of things in similar groupings and apply reasoning on experience with the group as a whole <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Think of that veteran as a jackass? Or is that too hard for you. Tata for now!
-If you have ever playtested before you would know that as an individual you have very little power, sure you can make suggestions but it is up to flayra weather or not he uses your input. That is why it is a closed beta: (pre-selected players who are dedicated to ns and who understand the game) to maximize useful feedback so you don't have to sift through so much bs. Bringing up specific examples is pointless, but not everyone in a playtest agrees with each other, and flayra (only human) usually has to choose between one idea and another, sometimes he makes the wrong decisions and it takes many weeks to identify the exact problem (in many cases it is not one factor that causes one team to be overpowered). You especially can't just suggest changing radical things (even if it is obvious to you that it is needed), you have to slowly change things and with one patch every 2 weeks, it takes a fair amount of time to get things rolling.
-There are many other things that can account for an unbalanced game, but I can tell you it’s a hell of a lot better then some of the builds we played. I remember one of the most annoying things was when Flayra threw in random crap that totally unbalanced the game or when we got side tracked on minor issues or when there were so many bugs that the game was unbalanced.
Balancing the game is a very frustrating process for everyone involved: everyone wants their changes added, only a few of these changes are implemented by flayra, fewer still end up doing good for the game.
There were many things that should have been done differently and many things that people did wrong, but none of that really matters anymore. Most people have given up on trying to tell people how to run things, including myself. I wouldn’t go blaming anyone specifically unless you actually know what you are talking about (or unless you want to get banned), and if you don’t then there is no one person to blame (or applaud) for the outcome 2.0.
So let me get this straight... you can go to Harvard, graduate Valedictorian <i>magna cu</i><i>m laude</i> with a double major in rocket science and Literature, and be a founding member of Mensa, and that automatically makes you capable of singlehandedly winning the CAL CS 6v6 tournament (except it's 6v1, because you don't need teammates)?
Every playtester and vet brings his/her own skills and strengths to playtesting. Flayra specifically recruited clans to test NS at a higher level of skill than the playtesters could.
And that said, assuming that Vets *aren't* smart, logical, or otherwise intelligent - merely because they are clanners - is the worst kind of bigoted, unthinking, closed-minded generalization you can make. Stick around, let me see if I can find you a nice pointy white hat to wear. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pfft. Dont flame me dude, Im just speaking from experience. Then again, what do I know? Im just a pubber who sucks at ns, shouldn't be allowed to hold an opinion, and has nothing useful to say at all. And the only reason I post is to annoy. /sarcasm.
Alot of people are going to stop playing if this kind of an attitude continues. Like I said, people are just talking from experience. Personally I've never had issues with either. But seperating people over something so trivial is silly.
Btw how can I be a bigot against people I've never met....not to mention spoke with. (With the exception of the pts/admins/etc I play with on Lunix).
That was our job.
Now the question is....... Did it work? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
when i see a vet being a jackass what am i supposed to think of this group of people?
edit: yeah im being prejudiced, but its human nature to think of things in similar groupings and apply reasoning on experience with the group as a whole <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Think of that veteran as a jackass? Or is that too hard for you. Tata for now! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you not read the part that he edited?
If you saw a bum on the street mug somebody, wouldn't you think less of all bums before you got to know them?
Also, the quote in the original post was taken out of context. Nothing said on the GTW St. Louis server should ever be taken seriously.
as long as your helping NS move forward more power to you
[edit]
oh and I second what communistwithagun said
[/edit]
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sirus, don't even try man. Monkeybonk would still say Fades were underpowered even if that was still in the game <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyways, on the actual topic: What do I think is the main reason people dislike the veterans? Simple. They're called veterans.
For some people that name seems to be implying that these people are better than us. That they have achieved a mastery of the game that we can never reach. Now if they were called, say, Beta Testers, I think that the vast majority of the hostility would go away. I have no hard feelings against the PTs or Vets or Devs (hey whats the dev icon? Just curious <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ), they're all just people to me (although I tremble in fear when I'm on a team facing Martigen <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ). But I do think that calling one of the groups "Veterans" rubbed some people the wrong way. Just my 2 cents.
I played in 2 top ns clans, [TE] (before disbanding), and briefly in ue. before I quit the game.
Per se, I am a veteran at this game, i've played since the first day of release and at the competitive level. But, I didn't stay in either, and I wasn't dedicated enough to be considered a candidate for veteran testing.
I don't have a problem with it, I still love the game and I like watching the progress; even if there are problems, I look at the issues as being anecdotes to remember. Something to remenisce (sp? >.<), with other long-time players.
As far as i'm concerned, there are very few if any overly arrogant pt's or vets. Most of the problem is the ignorance of many "regular" players, so to speak, as to the process that went into creating the current version. The arrogance is really just frustration with ignorance, to say the very least.
Some might say, just make them understand instead of being "arrogant", but it is just simply not worth the trouble for the rewards :/
I don't hate the guy, but I'm sure starting to hate Jetpacks.
I believe it's a TSA Logo.
Can I just point out that:
*If you get celerity instead of adrenaline, the Fade is by no means slow.
*Blink is far from useless in combat. It's like uber-leap. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pssst... Blink is hive 1. Metabolize is hive 2. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh yeah...
Weelll... maybe if you duck behind a TF you can heal up <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Which one is the Vet icon/ Pt icon/ Dev icon/ Constellation Icon?
Can anybody post pics of each?
If you aren't willing to meet all of my demands, how about we compromise with medpacks and scanner sweeps <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Gimme Gimme Gimme!!!!!!!!1
You mean jumpjets?
Non-clan play just isn't going to hold up to way the game is best played, and that I feel is due to the fact that too many of the best clan memebers were chosen to playtest its development, though I'm probobly spouting crap so ignore me.
Judging a whole group of people on the behavior of one or two persons is just plain ignorancy.
Most of the PTs and VETs I've met are very nice and dedicated people.
Just as Khaim said, during the last days of playtesting and bughunting some of us almost got no sleep at some nights.
Not to speak of the non-us playtesters like eggy... the time playtesting normally started was 4am local time.
Just have a look at M's list of changes/features that were implemented, tested, disussed (a LOT), tested again, discussed even more, and taken out or tweaked.
It's easy to play the game a few rounds and then go spam the forums with "nah ns2.0 is soo imbalanc0rd!!111oneoneoneeleven"-threads and flaming Devs/PTs/Vets.
But that has little to do with real playtesting.
"normal" players (and this is not meant in any eleete way) just "bump" into problems... if you spend the whole night trying to FIND those nasty little bugs, reproduce them, get them confirmed by other testers, findein the root of the problem,... this is not fun, guys!
For example there was a so-called "ghost player bug" we chased to several days... no fun at all.
You will find few to no playtester/vet who says 2.0 is perfectly balanced; because it isn't... but 2.0 is a lot lessunbalanced like all those whinners think, wich the beta patches prooved.
And speaking of the public beta tests... while I found some people to give good productive feedback, most of the people where either drooling or flaming. Some without even having played the patch.
The beta forum is full of so many comments aiming in so many directions... and of course everybody is perfectly right and everybody knows the ONE ONLY PERFECT answer to ALL the problems in NS and all the other people are just stoopid idiots that have no clue even if playing since NS came out... you get the point? no? then you're a hopeless case, sorry...
You got a quite balanced and FUN game here wich is not perfect, but it's being worked on.
Devs are hard working to kill bugs and implement/tweak fetaures.
PTs/Vets are discussing and testing to find and get rid of balance issues and other bugs.
Istead of whinning you should go and try to adept to the gameplay and have some fun... and show some RESPECT if you want to be respected yourself!
<3 fellow PTs and Vets
Hyper
You mean jumpjets? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jetpacks. Learn to use them properly, and you can keep going on for ages. I was using one and stayed in the air for 5 minutes. Learn to ration your jetpack fuel, and don't waste it all on a huge burst.
[EDIT: WTH? Use to learn? I'm tired...]
If the marine team on a pub server would have teamplayers and not alot of rambos, they would win.
And i think the dev´s and pt´s have done a great job.
They have atleast made some people re think this rambo gaming stile and changed too be a teamplayer..and THATS GREAT !
So my hat is off for the people who tested NS 2.0
Sirus, don't even try man. Monkeybonk would still say Fades were underpowered even if that was still in the game<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Monkeybonk is more concerned about cost. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
This thread has only helped me appreciate the PTs and Vets evenmore. But I ask one thing, can we please get screenshots of ALL the icons available in NS?
That was our job.
Now the question is....... Did it work? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
when i see a vet being a jackass what am i supposed to think of this group of people?
edit: yeah im being prejudiced, but its human nature to think of things in similar groupings and apply reasoning on experience with the group as a whole <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm trying to figure out why I was quoted.
I was responding to a post from an individual who did not like us teasing about 2.0....
Is the idea that we were supposed to keep you wetting your lips all that it takes to be called a jackass?
If so... I'm just going to go join critical with all his demands.... And I want em before him!