Why Do You Hate Us

Jane · August 2003

You obviously don't play on the RR servers, we treat all of the play testers, mapmakers, dev team members, and programers with the respect they deserve. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> Go NS peoples! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

--Jane

Cypher · August 2003

one of the people I played with was going on random pubs cause he was bored...and a vet dropped sens when people wanted defense and told everyone that he was "above them"...other than that I have all respect for them, I happen to love 2.0 and all the work they did

Quaunaut · August 2003

So don't get mad at your vet/pts: They'll pwn you again and again, just for the hell of it. Thank you. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

-edit- I took this away, because frankly, I kind of burst, and that was not needed on a forum that is frequenced with people that will get mad about it because they know they are guilty. Not to mention, 1 p|-|33|2 t3h \/\/|247|-| 0f t3h |\/|0|)5.

lazygamer · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
The only thing the vets/pts did wrong was fail one simulation: Dumbasses.

I think during the beta testing period, half of the marine team should have just muted everyone in the game and did whatever the hell they wanted. That would simulate a pub match very well.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Good point, but your overstating the problem. This behavior does not occur in all games, and does not occur amongst everyone in the games it does occur in. This is not CS, NS is decent, and teamwork is getting better.

Salaman · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Basically, 99.9% of the people that play NS have less information on the subject that a retarded monkey.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

This is the elitist attitude that is angering some people. Before you go insulting people, make sure you can insult them in a coherent sentence(I do believe you meant than instead of that). The hypocrisy I witness every time I come here is staggering.

Brad_R · August 2003

Why hate on us...we were just the test monkeys. Flayra and the dev's made all the changes and decisions. We just talked about it on our board and gave our $.02...its not like we made the game <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

I don't see how anyones at "fault" though. I find 2.0 to be pretty fun, and I see both sides winning in 2.01b. NS is what it is, which is what Flayra wants it to be...

SinSpawn · August 2003

are the vets the people who have [VET] or was it [VETS] in their name?

I don't HATE hate you, I just hate you.

I'm just Jealous.

The people who have [VET] in their name, are you in a clan or do you just want to show off?

Brad_R · August 2003

Vets are people that have "Veteran" under their name on this board, and have a gold icon next to their name in game.

Sirus · August 2003

I think HAMBONE hit it right on the head last page. I don't think I could have said it any better.

You definetly put it in perspective for the public, good job HAMBONE.

Gadzuko · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Maredtext @ Aug 24 2003, 03:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Btw I wasn't "retaliating" against anything, I was merely stateing the transparantly obvious real meaning of his post (which was a ego boost for himself) and critisizing it.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
And your posts are obviously just a pathetic bid for attention as you attempt to hijack the thread, despite a screenshot he posted which clearly shows exactly what he's talking about.

I haven't seen any problems with abuse towards pt's and vets, although I don't exactly play with them all the time. I guess it's all in what servers you play on.

Sirus · August 2003

Also, the public testing has just proven that you guys don't know what the hell you want, nor know how the hell to fix anything, there's a hundred different people blaming different things. During most playtests, everyone had an idea of the sources of problems, during testing alot of the Vets and Playtester paid hard attention to the root of the problem, seeking why something would come up unbalanced, problems are usually below the surface.

Maredtext · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>This is the elitist attitude that is angering some people. Before you go insulting people, make sure you can insult them in a coherent sentence(I do believe you meant than instead of that).</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

No, he meant that.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The hypocrisy I witness every time I come here is staggering.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Yes it is.

coil · August 2003

Near the end of playtesting (2.0y or so), there were a few things in the game that were cut at the last minute:

1) Spawn Umbra. Aliens spawned into a short-lived umbra cloud, making it more difficult for marines to spawn camp. <i>This was removed because it made hive assaults very difficult, since respawning skulks could not be killed easily. It's analogous to something we tried pre-1.0, when there was a 3-second invulnerability after spawning; newly-spawned skulks could rush marines without taking damage until they were within bite range. It was unbalancing, so it was removed.</i>

2) Hive Umbra. As an attempt to reduce the speed with which HMGs could take down hives, the hive would periodically umbra itself when it came under attack. <i>This made quick LMG/shotgun rushes all but pointless, as only a grenade launcher could damage the hive fast enough to be effective, and marines could not tech to GL fast enough.</i>

3) Node Activation. Resource towers on both sides took a certain amount of time (the time varied during testing; I think it might have been as high as 2 minutes at one point) to begin giving resources. This was done to force each team to expand more slowly, or at least take the time to defend dropped resource towers -- if they didn't, the node would be destroyed before it had even paid for itself. <i>This was removed because it slowed the game down far too much.</i>

The HMG's half-damage to structures was also one of the last things implemented.

Removing Node Activation was probably the most important change, but also probably the change that resulted in 2.0's balance issues. With all aliens having enough resources at game start to drop a node, they could quickly cap every node on the map and cash in on a large amount of RPs very rapidly. However, node activation was also one of the things that slowed the game down the most, as it *prevented* any kind of expansion rush -- any such rush wouldn't even start cashing in until 2 minutes after you did it... and by that time, half of your towers would have been destroyed anyway.

2.0z, z-alt, and z-alt2 were all released within the week before the 31st, and Flayra didn't want to miss that release date so they couldn't be tested as much as they should have been. However, he asked us to choose between the three... while 2.0z was balanced, it also included node activation, spawn umbra and hive umbra, and the full-damage HMG. We eventually decided to go with 2.0z-alt2 because even though it wasn't as thoroughly tested as 2.0z, many players who had begun to find 2.0 dull - because of all the slow-downs - felt that alt2 brought back the speed and energy that made NS so much fun, while still offering a wide array of tactical and strategic options.

We'll fix the balance issues. Bare with us. Flay's got a lot on his plate right now; he's moving at the end of the month, and looking into getting a new job as well.

Umbraed_Monkey · August 2003

Heres the problem tho, I distinctly remember reading vets arguing for making aliens weaker! Can you seriously blame them for aliens being too strong?

Sirus · August 2003

I had a feeling you were writing an essay when I saw your name at the bottom.

Zel · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sirus @ Aug 24 2003, 04:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Also, the public testing has just proven that you guys don't know what the hell you want, nor know how the hell to fix anything, there's a hundred different people blaming different things. During most playtests, everyone had an idea of the sources of problems, during testing alot of the Vets and Playtester paid hard attention to the root of the problem, seeking why something would come up unbalanced, problems are usually below the surface.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
we dont have that kind of information, we were suddenly immersed in a whole new game, sure you under stand it because you saw it all the way through developement, and could adapt. we were playing tech rush 1.04 just fine and then suddenly the whole game changed, its not a new version, its a whole darn new game. so if we dont know how to do things right, please tell us.

I dont like "Veterans" because they get special status and their only merits were being in some "elite" clans. I can respect PT's who ahve been around forever, and seen NS grow, but the veterans (to my naiive self) are just a group of "elite" clanners who used to get respect based on merit, and now are handed respect in a little icon. i wont give anyone special treatment until i know they deserve it, and i really resent that they have icons ingame.

where i play marines are winning 40% of games, and i would consider that fairly well balanced. there are annoying aspects on 2.0, like the range an onos can pluck a marine with devour, and how difficult it is for a skulk to climb over a turret to eat the marine welder, but those arent really balance issues, and i dont expect them to be "fixed" or changed in any way, its all a part of the game.

Sirus · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>we dont have that kind of information, we were suddenly immersed in a whole new game, sure you under stand it because you saw it all the way through developement, and could adapt</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Minor changes from build to build provide a whole new level of immersion.

lazygamer · August 2003

You've satifised my curiosity Coil. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

coil · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zel @ Aug 24 2003, 05:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I dont like "Veterans" because they get special status and their only merits were being in some "elite" clans. I can respect PT's who ahve been around forever, and seen NS grow, but the veterans (to my naiive self) are just a group of "elite" clanners who used to get respect based on merit, and now are handed respect in a little icon. i wont give anyone special treatment until i know they deserve it, and i really resent that they have icons ingame.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
That's pretty harsh, Zel.

The *only* difference between PTs and Vets is how they were chosen. PTs were picked by Flay and MonsE (for the most part) because they got noticed for their involvement and contribution to the community. Vets were chosen because they were members of the most skilled clans playing 1.04.

The commitment of both groups is the same -- both worked their collective tails off in testing 2.0. If you respect the PTs for helping make NS what it is today, then you owe the Vets the same respect.

Maredtext · August 2003

<span style='color:white'>*** Off-Topic: NUKED ***</span>

SinSpawn · August 2003

lol, coil puts everything into perspective, but I still don't like VETs, PTs are ok <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I dont like "Veterans" because they get special status and their only merits were being in some "elite" clans.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

I still sorta agree

pardzh · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cri.tical @ Aug 24 2003, 08:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> If you play on THE HAMPTONS server, I swear that marines win about 60/40... Interesting to say the least <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
As far as I've seen, this is completely true.

The only thing that really stops Marines from winning on pubs is gross incompetence.

...and the simple answer to this thread? Pure jealousy.

Insane · August 2003

Yeah, it's pretty hard on the Vets to put them down like that. Athough I wasn't involved in testing myself, what I saw of it, and from accounts of those who actually are testers, there's quite a number of truly dedicated Vets. They love NS just as much as anyone else and want what's best for it.

The majority are jolly nice fellows, and I think the fact that we have a Veteran Forum Mod exemplifies that (wvu DXO <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'> ).

Torgo · August 2003

Duff, of course, that server is more than likely brimming to the gills full of veterans and really smart coordinated people. Your nice friendly, ordinary, <b>average</b> server at any given time isn't going to have that...but then of course, we all knew that before I said it.

Talesin · August 2003

I still say we should've handed out 2.0z, and gone from there to put the 'fun' back in. But then, I'm a patient man, who can bear to defend a given location for two whole minutes. (Or one whole minute. Or thirty whole seconds. Or however much it was at the end, there.) :b

Incitatus · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Aug 24 2003, 10:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zel @ Aug 24 2003, 05:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I dont like "Veterans" because they get special status and their only merits were being in some "elite" clans. I can respect PT's who ahve been around forever, and seen NS grow, but the veterans (to my naiive self) are just a group of "elite" clanners who used to get respect based on merit, and now are handed respect in a little icon. i wont give anyone special treatment until i know they deserve it, and i really resent that they have icons ingame. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
omg look at that an intelligent post!

eggmac · August 2003

heh, the PTs warned us before release that the public will flame the vets shortly after release. Just like they did with the PTs after 1.0 came out.
Also quite interesting that PTs and vets finally grew together very well. Gonna love you coils, siruses, marts, Khaims and co. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

coil · August 2003

<3 eggie. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Insane · August 2003

GOTTA LOVE ME TOO!! ME TOO!!!

*puppy dog eyes*

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Hahfhafhahfh.

Back on topic: That's a good point, eggmac, I remember seeing someone mention that when y'all were playtesting.

I still think it's harsh on the PT's and Vet's though, to get flamed and such after putting so much work in. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'> Anyway, it's probably the case that the flamers couldn't do any better, and probably would do quite a bit worse. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Okay, this probably sounds like I'm sucking up now. Oh well. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'>

Snidely · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Why Do You Hate Us?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

"Because you exist."

>;D

Why Do You Hate Us

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