POV/Perspective Issue - Creatures and structures, bigger than they look. [Spoilers, I guess]
thebigdui
Join Date: 2016-04-20 Member: 216001Members
Join Date: 2016-04-20 Member: 216001Members
Hey, guys. Have you ever noticed how everything looks smaller in first person than it actually is?
Have you ever gone up to something big (like the sea dragon), then switch to freecam mode and notice that it seems even bigger, when you compare it to the player model?
Here's some examples, this is the sea dragon:
And this is what happens when you compare its size with the player model:
It's a bit bigger here than it looks in first person, right? Or am I crazy...?
Here's another one, this is the sea emperor's current size
And this is how be he actually is:
The sea emperor does look kinda small right now, at first glance. But he's actually huge, even though he's probably going to be bigger once he's finished.
Even the reaper leviathan is noticeably bigger in actuality than what he appears to be in first person:
You thought the giant skeleton head in the lost river was huge already?:
Well, it's actually bigger...:
You could almost build an entire city in its mouth...
Something that really took me by surprise is how big the ghost tree actually is.
This is the ghost tree:
And this is how it looks when you're close to it in first person:
This is how big it actually is:
This is a problem that I really wish to be resolved in the future, because this problem really takes a way a lot of what the game is supposed to feel like:
You're a tiny human, in a giant world.
Giant creatures and structures in Subnautica is awesome, a lot of people have wanted this in Subnautica for a long time, but it's actually already in the game right now!
It just doesn't look like it is.
I tried playing around with the FOV ingame a bit, but it only made it look like the game was either zoomed in or zoomed out.
I asked Obraxis if they were going to resolve this issue in the future and he responded with: "We may put in a POV scaler before 1.0 but no promises".
A POV scaler could probably help a lot, but is it really enough? Maybe something needs to be changed about the position of the "camera" in first person or something.
What do you guys think? Do you have any thoughts about this issue?
Have you ever gone up to something big (like the sea dragon), then switch to freecam mode and notice that it seems even bigger, when you compare it to the player model?
Here's some examples, this is the sea dragon:
And this is what happens when you compare its size with the player model:
It's a bit bigger here than it looks in first person, right? Or am I crazy...?
Here's another one, this is the sea emperor's current size
And this is how be he actually is:
The sea emperor does look kinda small right now, at first glance. But he's actually huge, even though he's probably going to be bigger once he's finished.
Even the reaper leviathan is noticeably bigger in actuality than what he appears to be in first person:
You thought the giant skeleton head in the lost river was huge already?:
Well, it's actually bigger...:
You could almost build an entire city in its mouth...
Something that really took me by surprise is how big the ghost tree actually is.
This is the ghost tree:
And this is how it looks when you're close to it in first person:
This is how big it actually is:
This is a problem that I really wish to be resolved in the future, because this problem really takes a way a lot of what the game is supposed to feel like:
You're a tiny human, in a giant world.
Giant creatures and structures in Subnautica is awesome, a lot of people have wanted this in Subnautica for a long time, but it's actually already in the game right now!
It just doesn't look like it is.
I tried playing around with the FOV ingame a bit, but it only made it look like the game was either zoomed in or zoomed out.
I asked Obraxis if they were going to resolve this issue in the future and he responded with: "We may put in a POV scaler before 1.0 but no promises".
A POV scaler could probably help a lot, but is it really enough? Maybe something needs to be changed about the position of the "camera" in first person or something.
What do you guys think? Do you have any thoughts about this issue?
Comments
Same; it'd be nice to have the first person view be a little more accurate (and thus, more intimidating) but I see it more as a "polish" item that is on the to do list but not an immediate priority.
Yea, but adding a third person option shouldn't be the solution. The solution should be to fix the first person. Adding some type of POV, maybe changing the FOV a bit in some way, I'm sure the developers could come up with a solution to this problem if they tried.
Maybe the reason why everything looks so much smaller is because you are looking at it through a 2D monitor.
You can always mess with the FOV in the console.
Like i said in the post, changing the FOV only creates a zoom in or zoom out effect. Doesn't really make anything look "bigger".
An FOV change would help more than a POV change, or really anything else besides third person. Zooming in on something is literally what makes it look bigger.
Zooming in is disorienting, and noticeable. Increasing or decreasing the FOV doesn't solve the problem, maybe modifying the FOV in some way might help, I'm not sure since I'm not a game developer. It's almost like the camera/head needs to become smaller, if that makes sense... Because it almost feels like the character you are playing as, feels bigger than he actually is.
But, I agree somewhat, changing the FOV does help, but it isn't enough to fix the entire issue.
Okay, so the camera needs to become smaller, decreasing the FIELD OF VIEW? It's only disorienting because you aren't used to it.
It really isn't that simple, dude. It's only gonna have me swim around with a giant body underneath me, and have a giant Seaglide in my giant hands.
Like I said, the problem is that the player feels bigger than he actually is, zooming in is going to make him look bigger as well. So that only brings us back to the same issue.
And like I also said, I'm not a game developer, I don't know how to solve this issue, I just wanted to let people know and talk about this issue. But I'm pretty sure decreasing the FOV isn't going to solve it, since I've tried it.
Then why is that the only logical solution you've been suggesting? You can't make FOV anything other then what it is, and making the camera smaller literally only lowers it.
It was a "figure of speech", I meant it as some sort of effect, to make the player FEEL smaller, sorry if I created some misunderstanding. I never said that it was the only logical solution, and I've said before that I don't know THE solution, that was just one of my ideas for a solution, and I'm not even really looking for a solution right now, I'm just trying to make people aware of this, talk about this, and also know if people feel the same way.
I don't have the solution, I'll leave that to the developers of Subnautica, because I'm sure they could come up with a solution for this problem, since they are such talented developers. I just don't personally believe that just decreasing the FOV would fix this problem, since there are a lot of other things that would have to be put into consideration, like having a giant body for example.
Even though I don't believe that decreasing the FOV would be THE solution, I could believe that it might be a part of the solution.
Maybe by decreasing the FOV, scaling down the player model in the first person perspective, while keeping the same size in third person if that is necessary.
I'm not trying to start an argument here, I just wanted to discuss the matter and I'm not saying that I'm disagreeing or agreeing with you. You made good points, but I think that there would have to be more work put into it.
I wonder that too, since VR lets you see things with both of your eyes individually, giving you the ability to see the distance of objects in the game, it might actually help you see their actual size. I believe that it would make a big difference when it comes to the scales of the objects, but I'm not sure until I get some sort of verification.
@dealwithitdog & @thebigdui, it's been a very long time since I worked with 3D cameras, but if I remember correctly, there's actually an optical illusion present here.
Using the ghost tree as a reference: In the 3rd person you can see the "hole" is decent distance from the player model, however in the 1st person it appears to be a lot closer, but proportionally smaller. In real life we have countless micro details that help us judge distance, however in games this can be limited. Again if memory serves me correct this can be countered though lighting, subtle FOD, FOV tweaks, upscaling of world (although I dislike this), player model adjustments, etc.
I could be completely wrong but this sounds vaguely familiar. Anyways, stay calm
- Cheers Capta
But in third person we see like this: |
Yea, these solutions sounds pretty logical.
I thought that it would be a little challenging to fix, but I'd say it's worth it, but of course I am not one of the developers, it's their choice.
Though, I don't think scaling up of the world is necessary, since it's mostly, if not a 100% the perspective of the player that is the problem and not the world itself,
but it could be necessary to scale up the world, creatures, and the player model as well in order to fix the issue, because the world and creatures might actually be small, while the player model is even smaller, but I feel like there should be at least a little bit more of a convenient solution.
And like you said with the ghost tree, it looks like when in first person, the camera is zoomed in, but not only that, it also seems like the player's "hit box" is larger than the actual model, which might be why the player is unable to move closer to the object. Maybe the camera has to be zoomed out, or "moved back" in some way, while also making the hit boxes smaller, so that the player is able move closer to the object or creature, then again, it might also be the hit box of the actual structure/creature that is too large.
But, If scaling up the world and creatures is a must, then i'd say that it probably isn't really worth it, because that would take A LOT of time and effort from the developers.
Yea, that's a pretty much it. You feel like you're leaning forward instead of a being in an up straight position.
This might be because of the Seaglide. Since you are leaning forward when using the Seaglide, you might always be in that position, because the game never changed the camera position to the up straight position.
It's just one of those things, there are things that can be done to mitigate how it looks somewhat, but this is a problem in every first person game ever.
Have you ever noticed sometimes you look like you just fit through a door, or a gap, but when you watch another player go through, there is actually a lot of clearance?
The reason this is mitigated so much in games is there are normally other characters of the same size for you to reference. Your mind will override the camera difference by gauging from the reference models around you. This just doesn't exist in Subnautica, as there are no other humanoids of the same size in the game. The lack of recognisable structures, vehicles to compare with all add to the problem.
If there were a co-op mode, oh, you'd definitely see the scale of Subnautica.
I agree, scaling everything in game up is way too much work than it should be. There's just gotta be a simple way of fixing this, which doesn't involve changing almost everything in the game.
Anyways, Obraxis says that they are aware of this, the developers might already have some plans themselves on how to fix this.
Yes, you are absolutely right. First person viewing will always not be completely accurate when it comes to size,
but there's a different issue here; as you can see in the ghost tree comparison pictures,
the camera appears to be too close to the tree, when you are actually further away from it, almost like the player is leaning forward, without leaning forward.
Both of these pictures are the exact same shot, but with different angles.
Even though first person viewing will never be perfectly accurate, you can always try to make it as close as possible, creating some sort of illusion to help you see how big the objects actually are, in comparison to the player model.
@Soul_Rider is correct. If you look at the 1st person ghost tree picture and imagine yourself there putting your feet into the lips of the hole you can see the optical trick (that sounds so odd to say).
As for scaling, its not a viable option. I mentioned it only because I can remember some guy doing it because it was an "easy" fix. Not to mention it wouldn't fix the problem. You'd still think you are bigger to other object then your model would show.
My VR experience was that everything felt larger. In a very good way!
y tho
Still relevant.