We've decided to reduce crafting times. You'll see this in the next experimental update in about 45 mins from this post. Please leave your constructive...(get it)...feedback
My feedback is thus;
Whether you agree or disagree with longer crafting times, one thing is certain. The devs listen to the fans.
That's why it was changed, and that's why it's being changed again.
Well done on being better than 90% of dev teams regardless.
and we shouldn't have to rely on mods or opt-out options. We want to recommend this game to other people without telling them which features they have to turn off or install just to make the game reasonably fun again.
So having options is a bad thing? Its the best way to make both sides happy. We all get what we want.
Looking forward to meaningful changes. A lot of dev teams would just nudge down some numbers and call it a day, and say "But it's only TWO minutes instead of THREE!" and the like claiming the compromized while still leaving in everything people were objecting to (See again, Killing Floor 2's resistance controversy)
I am optimistic we'll see a bunch of 3 second timers tops for common objects like food, scrap to ore, wire, chips, etc. Rather than half measures.
And if not, Looking forward to the Devs listening to further feedback instead of how many Devs will act offended people are not satisfied with the first quick adjustment (again, see above). As Game dev is an ongoing process, not a "patched it once, DONE" process (Otherwise, timers would not have been added in the first place either).
and we shouldn't have to rely on mods or opt-out options. We want to recommend this game to other people without telling them which features they have to turn off or install just to make the game reasonably fun again.
So having options is a bad thing? Its the best way to make both sides happy. We all get what we want.
Options as the eventual end result would be nice, I agree. Though at the moment such a thing would probably split the difference in Dev attention, and timer counts would still required balancing feedback either way. Plus more odds of it being stuck as "always on" for things like hardcore settings.
I'd rather have a timer option most people are willing to use (check dat poll results), ready and balanced for when they make that checkbox. Instead of only leaving it as a feature people only people satisfied with minute+ timers on basic objects would use something people came out of the woodwork to say "Hey I made an account literally to say how much I do not like this feature".
and we shouldn't have to rely on mods or opt-out options. We want to recommend this game to other people without telling them which features they have to turn off or install just to make the game reasonably fun again.
So having options is a bad thing? Its the best way to make both sides happy. We all get what we want.
Sure, that sounds good. How would you feel about crafting times being an opt-in option?
Personally, I don't give a damn which one is standard. But then again neither should you.
Well 2/3 of people here wanted it gone and their reducing it, despite they totally reneged on the O2 tanks before. But a compromise is still good. At least they are listening.
I'm very happy with this game so far and am very much looking forward to more, but the past few updates have had somethings that bothered me and my observations have gone unheeded. So I will be switching to experimental and becoming far more active on this forum in the hopes of being able to help.
and we shouldn't have to rely on mods or opt-out options. We want to recommend this game to other people without telling them which features they have to turn off or install just to make the game reasonably fun again.
So having options is a bad thing? Its the best way to make both sides happy. We all get what we want.
Sure, that sounds good. How would you feel about crafting times being an opt-in option?
Personally, I don't give a damn which one is standard. But then again neither should you.
We want to recommend this game to other people without telling them which features they have to turn off or install just to make the game reasonably fun again.
Just look at other games where this becomes necessary. Starbound, for instance.
Space Engineers has long times as standard and nobody cares.
It's pretty easy to change the settings too. Its like 2 buttons.
Also, longer times make the game more fun to some people as has been explained before. It may not apply to you, but it does for some. Saying that it can't be fun like that is kind of insulting to everyone who thinks that it is. And your side was getting on our side's ass for being insulting.
Also, longer times make the game more fun to some people as has been explained before.
and there wasn't an argument that wasn't refuted. From "Gives you an excuse to go out and explore in the meantime", that thing you would be doing anyway if you didn't have to wait for something to craft, to "Adds more time management" which had been criticized as it's already in several steps of the crafting process (searching for blueprints, gathering materials, managing your storage, etc etc)
We get it. You enjoy tedium and you think everyone else should be subjected to it. I have the opposing opinion that I don't think tedium needs to be in the process and wish the game to appeal to a wide range of folks that don't think it makes for enjoyable gameplay.
And? That doesn't change the fact that people don't complain about the long crafting times because they can change it with two buttons. If that happened here I'm sure everyone would be fine with it, but of course you want no timers as standard in a childish case of, "No, I want MY name on the poster first." Also, I myself don't want to subject anyone to anything. I have been very adamant about the addition of options, which appeals to an even WIDER range of people because those who don't mind tedium can have it, and those that do can simply remove it.
Also, longer times make the game more fun to some people as has been explained before.
and there wasn't an argument that wasn't refuted. From "Gives you an excuse to go out and explore in the meantime", that thing you would be doing anyway if you didn't have to wait for something to craft, to "Adds more time management" which had been criticized as it's already in several steps of the crafting process (searching for blueprints, gathering materials, managing your storage, etc etc)
We get it. You enjoy tedium and you think everyone else should be subjected to it. I have the opposing opinion that I don't think tedium needs to be in the process and wish the game to appeal to a wide range of folks that don't think it makes for enjoyable gameplay.
And? That doesn't change the fact that people don't complain about the long crafting times because they can change it with two buttons. If that happened here I'm sure everyone would be fine with it, but of course you want no timers as standard in a childish case of, "No, I want MY name on the poster first." Also, I myself don't want to subject anyone to anything. I have been very adamant about the addition of options, which appeals to an even WIDER range of people because those who don't mind tedium can have it, and those that do can simply remove it.
I find your word choice here very telling. "Those who don't mind tedium can have it". You don't mind tedium. You did not say enjoy. You don't enjoy it, you just don't mind it.
If that's what you think about additional tedium, that you don't mind it, why do you want it in the game?
Also, longer times make the game more fun to some people as has been explained before.
and there wasn't an argument that wasn't refuted. From "Gives you an excuse to go out and explore in the meantime", that thing you would be doing anyway if you didn't have to wait for something to craft, to "Adds more time management" which had been criticized as it's already in several steps of the crafting process (searching for blueprints, gathering materials, managing your storage, etc etc)
We get it. You enjoy tedium and you think everyone else should be subjected to it. I have the opposing opinion that I don't think tedium needs to be in the process and wish the game to appeal to a wide range of folks that don't think it makes for enjoyable gameplay.
And? That doesn't change the fact that people don't complain about the long crafting times because they can change it with two buttons. If that happened here I'm sure everyone would be fine with it, but of course you want no timers as standard in a childish case of, "No, I want MY name on the poster first." Also, I myself don't want to subject anyone to anything. I have been very adamant about the addition of options, which appeals to an even WIDER range of people because those who don't mind tedium can have it, and those that do can simply remove it.
I find your word choice here very telling. "Those who don't mind tedium can have it". You don't mind tedium. You did not say enjoy. You don't enjoy it, you just don't mind it.
If that's what you think about additional tedium, that you don't mind it, why do you want it in the game?
Perhaps I should've used the word "enjoyed" because, to me at least, more time put into making something makes it feel more rewarding to finally get it. I like that kind of thing in games, so long as the reward matches the tedium, and in this case it does. 4 minutes for something I not only have to craft a grand total of once, but will make use of for the rest of my time in-game, seems perfectly reasonable to me. You may think differently, and that's fine.
Also, longer times make the game more fun to some people as has been explained before.
and there wasn't an argument that wasn't refuted. From "Gives you an excuse to go out and explore in the meantime", that thing you would be doing anyway if you didn't have to wait for something to craft, to "Adds more time management" which had been criticized as it's already in several steps of the crafting process (searching for blueprints, gathering materials, managing your storage, etc etc)
We get it. You enjoy tedium and you think everyone else should be subjected to it. I have the opposing opinion that I don't think tedium needs to be in the process and wish the game to appeal to a wide range of folks that don't think it makes for enjoyable gameplay.
And? That doesn't change the fact that people don't complain about the long crafting times because they can change it with two buttons. If that happened here I'm sure everyone would be fine with it, but of course you want no timers as standard in a childish case of, "No, I want MY name on the poster first." Also, I myself don't want to subject anyone to anything. I have been very adamant about the addition of options, which appeals to an even WIDER range of people because those who don't mind tedium can have it, and those that do can simply remove it.
I find your word choice here very telling. "Those who don't mind tedium can have it". You don't mind tedium. You did not say enjoy. You don't enjoy it, you just don't mind it.
If that's what you think about additional tedium, that you don't mind it, why do you want it in the game?
Perhaps I should've used the word "enjoyed" because, to me at least, more time put into making something makes it feel more rewarding to finally get it. I like that kind of thing in games, so long as the reward matches the tedium, and in this case it does. 4 minutes for something I not only have to craft a grand total of once, but will make use of for the rest of my time in-game, seems perfectly reasonable to me. You may think differently, and that's fine.
What about the time you spent gathering the materials or searching for the blueprints? Does that time not count because you spent it actually playing the game instead of being alt-tabbed or staring at a progress bar?
Also, longer times make the game more fun to some people as has been explained before.
and there wasn't an argument that wasn't refuted. From "Gives you an excuse to go out and explore in the meantime", that thing you would be doing anyway if you didn't have to wait for something to craft, to "Adds more time management" which had been criticized as it's already in several steps of the crafting process (searching for blueprints, gathering materials, managing your storage, etc etc)
We get it. You enjoy tedium and you think everyone else should be subjected to it. I have the opposing opinion that I don't think tedium needs to be in the process and wish the game to appeal to a wide range of folks that don't think it makes for enjoyable gameplay.
And? That doesn't change the fact that people don't complain about the long crafting times because they can change it with two buttons. If that happened here I'm sure everyone would be fine with it, but of course you want no timers as standard in a childish case of, "No, I want MY name on the poster first." Also, I myself don't want to subject anyone to anything. I have been very adamant about the addition of options, which appeals to an even WIDER range of people because those who don't mind tedium can have it, and those that do can simply remove it.
I find your word choice here very telling. "Those who don't mind tedium can have it". You don't mind tedium. You did not say enjoy. You don't enjoy it, you just don't mind it.
If that's what you think about additional tedium, that you don't mind it, why do you want it in the game?
Perhaps I should've used the word "enjoyed" because, to me at least, more time put into making something makes it feel more rewarding to finally get it. I like that kind of thing in games, so long as the reward matches the tedium, and in this case it does. 4 minutes for something I not only have to craft a grand total of once, but will make use of for the rest of my time in-game, seems perfectly reasonable to me. You may think differently, and that's fine.
What about the time you spent gathering the materials or searching for the blueprints? Does that time not count because you spent it actually playing the game instead of being alt-tabbed or staring at a progress bar?
So much for avoiding the use of thinly veiled insults. That time counts as well, and I don't alt-tab or stare at the progress bar, I go gather more materials for my next item and actualy play the game, which has been said to be stupid by some, but hey, its how I play the game. Now please act your age, or since there's a distinct possibility you already are, act like an adult.
We've decided to reduce crafting times. You'll see this in the next experimental update in about 45 mins from this post. Please leave your constructive...(get it)...feedback
Also, longer times make the game more fun to some people as has been explained before.
and there wasn't an argument that wasn't refuted. From "Gives you an excuse to go out and explore in the meantime", that thing you would be doing anyway if you didn't have to wait for something to craft, to "Adds more time management" which had been criticized as it's already in several steps of the crafting process (searching for blueprints, gathering materials, managing your storage, etc etc)
We get it. You enjoy tedium and you think everyone else should be subjected to it. I have the opposing opinion that I don't think tedium needs to be in the process and wish the game to appeal to a wide range of folks that don't think it makes for enjoyable gameplay.
And? That doesn't change the fact that people don't complain about the long crafting times because they can change it with two buttons. If that happened here I'm sure everyone would be fine with it, but of course you want no timers as standard in a childish case of, "No, I want MY name on the poster first." Also, I myself don't want to subject anyone to anything. I have been very adamant about the addition of options, which appeals to an even WIDER range of people because those who don't mind tedium can have it, and those that do can simply remove it.
I find your word choice here very telling. "Those who don't mind tedium can have it". You don't mind tedium. You did not say enjoy. You don't enjoy it, you just don't mind it.
If that's what you think about additional tedium, that you don't mind it, why do you want it in the game?
Perhaps I should've used the word "enjoyed" because, to me at least, more time put into making something makes it feel more rewarding to finally get it. I like that kind of thing in games, so long as the reward matches the tedium, and in this case it does. 4 minutes for something I not only have to craft a grand total of once, but will make use of for the rest of my time in-game, seems perfectly reasonable to me. You may think differently, and that's fine.
What about the time you spent gathering the materials or searching for the blueprints? Does that time not count because you spent it actually playing the game instead of being alt-tabbed or staring at a progress bar?
So much for avoiding the use of thinly veiled insults. That time counts as well, and I don't alt-tab or stare at the progress bar, I go gather more materials for my next item and actualy play the game, which has been said to be stupid by some, but hey, its how I play the game. Now please act your age, or since there's a distinct possibility you already are, act like an adult.
I haven't insulted anyone. You, on the other hand, have called multiple people childish.
Firstly, the crafting timers are far too short to actually go play the game. After you've cleared out the general area around your base, you're going to have to go traveling significant distances to get more materials. In 4 minutes, I suppose I could hop in my Seamoth, drive out to the underwater islands and pick up a single piece of quartz. I'd run well over 4 minutes trying to get any significant amount of materials without even starting on the trip back. And that's the longest timer. Suggesting that people should go do other stuff for seven seconds is absurd.
Secondly, if you don't wait, and just go play the game, what did the crafting timer add to the game? Surely if you needed those resources, you would have gone to get them even if the thing you're crafting completed immediately? Why do you want crafting timers if they're not going to change how you play the game?
Also, longer times make the game more fun to some people as has been explained before.
and there wasn't an argument that wasn't refuted. From "Gives you an excuse to go out and explore in the meantime", that thing you would be doing anyway if you didn't have to wait for something to craft, to "Adds more time management" which had been criticized as it's already in several steps of the crafting process (searching for blueprints, gathering materials, managing your storage, etc etc)
We get it. You enjoy tedium and you think everyone else should be subjected to it. I have the opposing opinion that I don't think tedium needs to be in the process and wish the game to appeal to a wide range of folks that don't think it makes for enjoyable gameplay.
And? That doesn't change the fact that people don't complain about the long crafting times because they can change it with two buttons. If that happened here I'm sure everyone would be fine with it, but of course you want no timers as standard in a childish case of, "No, I want MY name on the poster first." Also, I myself don't want to subject anyone to anything. I have been very adamant about the addition of options, which appeals to an even WIDER range of people because those who don't mind tedium can have it, and those that do can simply remove it.
I find your word choice here very telling. "Those who don't mind tedium can have it". You don't mind tedium. You did not say enjoy. You don't enjoy it, you just don't mind it.
If that's what you think about additional tedium, that you don't mind it, why do you want it in the game?
Perhaps I should've used the word "enjoyed" because, to me at least, more time put into making something makes it feel more rewarding to finally get it. I like that kind of thing in games, so long as the reward matches the tedium, and in this case it does. 4 minutes for something I not only have to craft a grand total of once, but will make use of for the rest of my time in-game, seems perfectly reasonable to me. You may think differently, and that's fine.
What about the time you spent gathering the materials or searching for the blueprints? Does that time not count because you spent it actually playing the game instead of being alt-tabbed or staring at a progress bar?
So much for avoiding the use of thinly veiled insults. That time counts as well, and I don't alt-tab or stare at the progress bar, I go gather more materials for my next item and actualy play the game, which has been said to be stupid by some, but hey, its how I play the game. Now please act your age, or since there's a distinct possibility you already are, act like an adult.
I haven't insulted anyone. You, on the other hand, have called multiple people childish.
Firstly, the crafting timers are far too short to actually go play the game. After you've cleared out the general area around your base, you're going to have to go traveling significant distances to get more materials. In 4 minutes, I suppose I could hop in my Seamoth, drive out to the underwater islands and pick up a single piece of quartz. I'd run well over 4 minutes trying to get any significant amount of materials without even starting on the trip back. And that's the longest timer. Suggesting that people should go do other stuff for seven seconds is absurd.
Secondly, if you don't wait, and just go play the game, what did the crafting timer add to the game? Surely if you needed those resources, you would have gone to get them even if the thing you're crafting completed immediately? Why do you want crafting timers if they're not going to change how you play the game?
I wasn't insulting you. Merely pointing out the fact that there was a thinly veiled insult in your post and advising that you don't act like a child, which is simply something everyone here should do. Calling someone childish is an observation. Saying they're stupid because of that is an insult.
In 4 minutes, you can gather a plethora of fish, go grab some Crash powder( If you're near the SS, which I like to be because of how it looks), grab some usable flora such as mushrooms or Creepvine, etc. Or if you don't want to gather, you can quickly check your farms and power supply, build an addition to the layout of your base, get some nice looking plants to decorate your base with, and a multitude of other things. Mind you, I'm not arguing whether it adds to everyone's experience. Just what it adds to mine. I've already said, the more time it takes me to make something, the more satisfying it is to finally get it. That's how I enjoy the game.
Also, longer times make the game more fun to some people as has been explained before.
and there wasn't an argument that wasn't refuted. From "Gives you an excuse to go out and explore in the meantime", that thing you would be doing anyway if you didn't have to wait for something to craft, to "Adds more time management" which had been criticized as it's already in several steps of the crafting process (searching for blueprints, gathering materials, managing your storage, etc etc)
We get it. You enjoy tedium and you think everyone else should be subjected to it. I have the opposing opinion that I don't think tedium needs to be in the process and wish the game to appeal to a wide range of folks that don't think it makes for enjoyable gameplay.
And? That doesn't change the fact that people don't complain about the long crafting times because they can change it with two buttons. If that happened here I'm sure everyone would be fine with it, but of course you want no timers as standard in a childish case of, "No, I want MY name on the poster first." Also, I myself don't want to subject anyone to anything. I have been very adamant about the addition of options, which appeals to an even WIDER range of people because those who don't mind tedium can have it, and those that do can simply remove it.
I find your word choice here very telling. "Those who don't mind tedium can have it". You don't mind tedium. You did not say enjoy. You don't enjoy it, you just don't mind it.
If that's what you think about additional tedium, that you don't mind it, why do you want it in the game?
Perhaps I should've used the word "enjoyed" because, to me at least, more time put into making something makes it feel more rewarding to finally get it. I like that kind of thing in games, so long as the reward matches the tedium, and in this case it does. 4 minutes for something I not only have to craft a grand total of once, but will make use of for the rest of my time in-game, seems perfectly reasonable to me. You may think differently, and that's fine.
What about the time you spent gathering the materials or searching for the blueprints? Does that time not count because you spent it actually playing the game instead of being alt-tabbed or staring at a progress bar?
So much for avoiding the use of thinly veiled insults. That time counts as well, and I don't alt-tab or stare at the progress bar, I go gather more materials for my next item and actualy play the game, which has been said to be stupid by some, but hey, its how I play the game. Now please act your age, or since there's a distinct possibility you already are, act like an adult.
I haven't insulted anyone. You, on the other hand, have called multiple people childish.
Firstly, the crafting timers are far too short to actually go play the game. After you've cleared out the general area around your base, you're going to have to go traveling significant distances to get more materials. In 4 minutes, I suppose I could hop in my Seamoth, drive out to the underwater islands and pick up a single piece of quartz. I'd run well over 4 minutes trying to get any significant amount of materials without even starting on the trip back. And that's the longest timer. Suggesting that people should go do other stuff for seven seconds is absurd.
Secondly, if you don't wait, and just go play the game, what did the crafting timer add to the game? Surely if you needed those resources, you would have gone to get them even if the thing you're crafting completed immediately? Why do you want crafting timers if they're not going to change how you play the game?
I wasn't insulting you. Merely pointing out the fact that there was a thinly veiled insult in your post and advising that you don't act like a child, which is simply something everyone here should do. Calling someone childish is an observation. Saying they're stupid because of that is an insult.
In 4 minutes, you can gather a plethora of fish, go grab some Crash powder( If you're near the SS, which I like to be because of how it looks), grab some usable flora such as mushrooms or Creepvine, etc. Or if you don't want to gather, you can quickly check your farms and power supply, build an addition to the layout of your base, get some nice looking plants to decorate your base with, and a multitude of other things. Mind you, I'm not arguing whether it adds to everyone's experience. Just what it adds to mine. I've already said, the more time it takes me to make something, the more satisfying it is to finally get it. That's how I enjoy the game.
1
: of, relating to, or befitting a child or childhood
2
a : marked by or suggestive of immaturity and lack of poise <a childish spiteful remark> b : lacking complexity : simple <it's a childish device, but it works> c : deteriorated with age especially in mind : senile
I'm pretty sure that's an insult.
Even assuming you can do that stuff within 4 minutes, either you would have done it anyway after you crafted the item, or you don't actually need to do that stuff and are just doing it to fill the time. So either the crafting delay did not change what you were going to do, or it's wasting your time.
Do you also enjoy playing freemium mobile games that have waiting times of several real-life hours or days? After all, the longer it takes you to make something, the more satisfying it is to finally get it. You're not actually making anything. You're waiting for the fabricator to finish making the thing for you; waiting for the game to spit out the item. The only work you can possibly do is in gathering the materials and the blueprint fragments; that's the only part where you expend effort to get the thing. Crafting timers add no work, only waiting.
Also, longer times make the game more fun to some people as has been explained before.
and there wasn't an argument that wasn't refuted. From "Gives you an excuse to go out and explore in the meantime", that thing you would be doing anyway if you didn't have to wait for something to craft, to "Adds more time management" which had been criticized as it's already in several steps of the crafting process (searching for blueprints, gathering materials, managing your storage, etc etc)
We get it. You enjoy tedium and you think everyone else should be subjected to it. I have the opposing opinion that I don't think tedium needs to be in the process and wish the game to appeal to a wide range of folks that don't think it makes for enjoyable gameplay.
And? That doesn't change the fact that people don't complain about the long crafting times because they can change it with two buttons. If that happened here I'm sure everyone would be fine with it, but of course you want no timers as standard in a childish case of, "No, I want MY name on the poster first." Also, I myself don't want to subject anyone to anything. I have been very adamant about the addition of options, which appeals to an even WIDER range of people because those who don't mind tedium can have it, and those that do can simply remove it.
I find your word choice here very telling. "Those who don't mind tedium can have it". You don't mind tedium. You did not say enjoy. You don't enjoy it, you just don't mind it.
If that's what you think about additional tedium, that you don't mind it, why do you want it in the game?
Perhaps I should've used the word "enjoyed" because, to me at least, more time put into making something makes it feel more rewarding to finally get it. I like that kind of thing in games, so long as the reward matches the tedium, and in this case it does. 4 minutes for something I not only have to craft a grand total of once, but will make use of for the rest of my time in-game, seems perfectly reasonable to me. You may think differently, and that's fine.
What about the time you spent gathering the materials or searching for the blueprints? Does that time not count because you spent it actually playing the game instead of being alt-tabbed or staring at a progress bar?
So much for avoiding the use of thinly veiled insults. That time counts as well, and I don't alt-tab or stare at the progress bar, I go gather more materials for my next item and actualy play the game, which has been said to be stupid by some, but hey, its how I play the game. Now please act your age, or since there's a distinct possibility you already are, act like an adult.
I haven't insulted anyone. You, on the other hand, have called multiple people childish.
Firstly, the crafting timers are far too short to actually go play the game. After you've cleared out the general area around your base, you're going to have to go traveling significant distances to get more materials. In 4 minutes, I suppose I could hop in my Seamoth, drive out to the underwater islands and pick up a single piece of quartz. I'd run well over 4 minutes trying to get any significant amount of materials without even starting on the trip back. And that's the longest timer. Suggesting that people should go do other stuff for seven seconds is absurd.
Secondly, if you don't wait, and just go play the game, what did the crafting timer add to the game? Surely if you needed those resources, you would have gone to get them even if the thing you're crafting completed immediately? Why do you want crafting timers if they're not going to change how you play the game?
I wasn't insulting you. Merely pointing out the fact that there was a thinly veiled insult in your post and advising that you don't act like a child, which is simply something everyone here should do. Calling someone childish is an observation. Saying they're stupid because of that is an insult.
In 4 minutes, you can gather a plethora of fish, go grab some Crash powder( If you're near the SS, which I like to be because of how it looks), grab some usable flora such as mushrooms or Creepvine, etc. Or if you don't want to gather, you can quickly check your farms and power supply, build an addition to the layout of your base, get some nice looking plants to decorate your base with, and a multitude of other things. Mind you, I'm not arguing whether it adds to everyone's experience. Just what it adds to mine. I've already said, the more time it takes me to make something, the more satisfying it is to finally get it. That's how I enjoy the game.
I'm pretty sure that's an insult.
Even assuming you can do that stuff within 4 minutes, either you would have done it anyway after you crafted the item, or you don't actually need to do that stuff and are just doing it to fill the time. So either the crafting delay did not change what you were going to do, or it's wasting your time.
Do you also enjoy playing freemium mobile games that have waiting times of several real-life hours or days? After all, the longer it takes you to make something, the more satisfying it is to finally get it. You're not actually making anything. You're waiting for the fabricator to finish making the thing for you; waiting for the game to spit out the item. The only work you can possibly do is in gathering the materials and the blueprint fragments; that's the only part where you expend effort to get the thing. Crafting timers add no work, only waiting.
You continue to misunderstand, and assume I was using the term to insult you. I wasn't. You were acting immature and seemed to lack poise. I simply pointed that out to you. Then you go on to deliberately insult the way I like to play games, and perfectly good games such as Warframe which have long times to create certain things. Not everything with a wait time is a shitty mobile game, and a long wait time is not the deciding factor on what games I will and will not play. You still have not grasped the concept that you're arguing with me on how I like to enjoy Subnautica, and even YOU must see how utterly and deliberately belligerent and stupid that is.
Also, longer times make the game more fun to some people as has been explained before.
and there wasn't an argument that wasn't refuted. From "Gives you an excuse to go out and explore in the meantime", that thing you would be doing anyway if you didn't have to wait for something to craft, to "Adds more time management" which had been criticized as it's already in several steps of the crafting process (searching for blueprints, gathering materials, managing your storage, etc etc)
We get it. You enjoy tedium and you think everyone else should be subjected to it. I have the opposing opinion that I don't think tedium needs to be in the process and wish the game to appeal to a wide range of folks that don't think it makes for enjoyable gameplay.
And? That doesn't change the fact that people don't complain about the long crafting times because they can change it with two buttons. If that happened here I'm sure everyone would be fine with it, but of course you want no timers as standard in a childish case of, "No, I want MY name on the poster first." Also, I myself don't want to subject anyone to anything. I have been very adamant about the addition of options, which appeals to an even WIDER range of people because those who don't mind tedium can have it, and those that do can simply remove it.
I find your word choice here very telling. "Those who don't mind tedium can have it". You don't mind tedium. You did not say enjoy. You don't enjoy it, you just don't mind it.
If that's what you think about additional tedium, that you don't mind it, why do you want it in the game?
Perhaps I should've used the word "enjoyed" because, to me at least, more time put into making something makes it feel more rewarding to finally get it. I like that kind of thing in games, so long as the reward matches the tedium, and in this case it does. 4 minutes for something I not only have to craft a grand total of once, but will make use of for the rest of my time in-game, seems perfectly reasonable to me. You may think differently, and that's fine.
What about the time you spent gathering the materials or searching for the blueprints? Does that time not count because you spent it actually playing the game instead of being alt-tabbed or staring at a progress bar?
So much for avoiding the use of thinly veiled insults. That time counts as well, and I don't alt-tab or stare at the progress bar, I go gather more materials for my next item and actualy play the game, which has been said to be stupid by some, but hey, its how I play the game. Now please act your age, or since there's a distinct possibility you already are, act like an adult.
I haven't insulted anyone. You, on the other hand, have called multiple people childish.
Firstly, the crafting timers are far too short to actually go play the game. After you've cleared out the general area around your base, you're going to have to go traveling significant distances to get more materials. In 4 minutes, I suppose I could hop in my Seamoth, drive out to the underwater islands and pick up a single piece of quartz. I'd run well over 4 minutes trying to get any significant amount of materials without even starting on the trip back. And that's the longest timer. Suggesting that people should go do other stuff for seven seconds is absurd.
Secondly, if you don't wait, and just go play the game, what did the crafting timer add to the game? Surely if you needed those resources, you would have gone to get them even if the thing you're crafting completed immediately? Why do you want crafting timers if they're not going to change how you play the game?
I wasn't insulting you. Merely pointing out the fact that there was a thinly veiled insult in your post and advising that you don't act like a child, which is simply something everyone here should do. Calling someone childish is an observation. Saying they're stupid because of that is an insult.
In 4 minutes, you can gather a plethora of fish, go grab some Crash powder( If you're near the SS, which I like to be because of how it looks), grab some usable flora such as mushrooms or Creepvine, etc. Or if you don't want to gather, you can quickly check your farms and power supply, build an addition to the layout of your base, get some nice looking plants to decorate your base with, and a multitude of other things. Mind you, I'm not arguing whether it adds to everyone's experience. Just what it adds to mine. I've already said, the more time it takes me to make something, the more satisfying it is to finally get it. That's how I enjoy the game.
I'm pretty sure that's an insult.
Even assuming you can do that stuff within 4 minutes, either you would have done it anyway after you crafted the item, or you don't actually need to do that stuff and are just doing it to fill the time. So either the crafting delay did not change what you were going to do, or it's wasting your time.
Do you also enjoy playing freemium mobile games that have waiting times of several real-life hours or days? After all, the longer it takes you to make something, the more satisfying it is to finally get it. You're not actually making anything. You're waiting for the fabricator to finish making the thing for you; waiting for the game to spit out the item. The only work you can possibly do is in gathering the materials and the blueprint fragments; that's the only part where you expend effort to get the thing. Crafting timers add no work, only waiting.
You continue to misunderstand, and assume I was using the term to insult you. I wasn't. You were acting immature and seemed to lack poise. I simply pointed that out to you. Then you go on to deliberately insult the way I like to play games, and perfectly good games such as Warframe which have long times to create certain things. Not everything with a wait time is a shitty mobile game, and a long wait time is not the deciding factor on what games I will and will not play. You still have not grasped the concept that you're arguing with me on how I like to enjoy Subnautica, and even YOU must see how utterly and deliberately belligerent and stupid that is.
Let me start this off by saying that I voted to revert the changes, and thus I am biased. But a bias doesn't mean that the logic isn't sound.
I believe that the 2 sides of this argument can be summed up very easily. From what I've seen, the sides are mostly populated by one type of people or another. Those who believe that the exploration is the endgame of Subnautica occupy the "no build time" camp, and people who think that exploring should be done at all times occupy the "build time" camp. To clarify these types of people, a bit of explanation is required.
The endgame explorers are people who make sure that they have everything before exploring. They have a steady supply of food and water, as well as a large stockpile of pretty much every crafting material, in case they need something. The reason that they oppose crafting times is because it delays that endgame state where exploration is possible. If they don't have the item, they don't leave their safety. When crafting a replacement in the endgame phase, there is nothing for them to do. They don't need to go and gather resources because they already have them. They don't need to micromanage their fish tanks because that's already done. The reason they're on the no build side is that the absence of the item they are trying to get is the reason they're not doing anything, and thus the wait time is down time.
The alltime explorers are people who go and explore whenever. For them, the game is about exploration, so that's what they're going to do. Whenever they can, they load up a seamoth with supplies and scout around anywhere. These people might not have a steady supply of food because they are exploring instead of creating a supply of food. They haven't gotten to the point where going and farming 15 quartz is pointless because they have 60 in a locker. They haven't gotten to the point where there isn't a reason to build a new room in their base, since it's probably pretty empty. The reason they're on the build time side is because they have stuff to do in the down time created.
It's important for both sides of the argument to acknowledge that the other side has merit. It's perfectly fine to prepare so much that being given forced to take time to prepare more is droll. There's safety there. There's merit in exploring as often as possible. There's fun there.
What's more important is to acknowledge that one side of the argument satisfies both parties, and the other disgruntles the opposing side. I'll go about showing this very quickly and to the point. If there's a build timer, what happens to the endgame explorers? They get annoyed at the game. There's no reason for them to do anything for the time that they see the item crafting, so they get bored and annoyed. They may decide to sit and wait in the game, in which case some of their time is wasted, or they may tab out, in which case the game is not generating the 'fun' levels that games should generate. On the other hand, what happens if there is no build timer? People who don't want it are happy, but what of the alltime explorers, the ones who stand to 'lose' in this option? They get the item that they want instantly and still have use of those 30-180 seconds that the endgamers lose in the other option. In one scenario, about 2/3 of the community loses either some time or some interest in the game, but in the other scenario no players lose anything.
So which makes more logical sense: The option where nobody loses anything, or the option where 64% of the community loses some significant time because 24% of the community wants a change that wouldn't affect themselves much at all?
We've decided to reduce crafting times. You'll see this in the next experimental update in about 45 mins from this post. Please leave your constructive...(get it)...feedback
Increase the crafting time, give me option to set up custom difficulty, so I will do it by myself. I want a game to be a challenge, I want uber difficulty. I dont need another ez mode game. Playing on survival at the moment, and I dislike most of it, its way to simple.
I had a little idea. Why not look into making it so that after the Aurora detonates, the Fabricator on the Life Pod begins to "malfunction", and afterwards that particular fabricator is the only one with the crazy long wait times?
I feel like this would encourage players to leave the comfort of the Life Pod as quickly as possible if this were the case.
People find the Life Pod comfortable? I want out of it as fast as possible. Waterproof lockers for storage space are really annoying.
In my first playthrough, I used the pod for quite a long time as a fabrication station only, for two key reasons: firstly, it was relatively expensive to build a new one (especially as silver is scarce); and secondly, it doesn't use base power.
That second reason might be a good justification for that "longer crafting time" malfunction, though. It'd probably be a bit hard to explain in-universe, though; it's an oddly specific malfunction.
I believe that the 2 sides of this argument can be summed up very easily. From what I've seen, the sides are mostly populated by one type of people or another. Those who believe that the exploration is the endgame of Subnautica occupy the "no build time" camp, and people who think that exploring should be done at all times occupy the "build time" camp. To clarify these types of people, a bit of explanation is required.
The endgame explorers are people who make sure that they have everything before exploring. They have a steady supply of food and water, as well as a large stockpile of pretty much every crafting material, in case they need something. The reason that they oppose crafting times is because it delays that endgame state where exploration is possible. If they don't have the item, they don't leave their safety. When crafting a replacement in the endgame phase, there is nothing for them to do. They don't need to go and gather resources because they already have them. They don't need to micromanage their fish tanks because that's already done. The reason they're on the no build side is that the absence of the item they are trying to get is the reason they're not doing anything, and thus the wait time is down time.
The alltime explorers are people who go and explore whenever. For them, the game is about exploration, so that's what they're going to do. Whenever they can, they load up a seamoth with supplies and scout around anywhere. These people might not have a steady supply of food because they are exploring instead of creating a supply of food. They haven't gotten to the point where going and farming 15 quartz is pointless because they have 60 in a locker. They haven't gotten to the point where there isn't a reason to build a new room in their base, since it's probably pretty empty. The reason they're on the build time side is because they have stuff to do in the down time created.
Those are probably fair characterisations of different playstyles, but I'm not sure they map the way you're describing. Of the above, I would class myself as an alltime explorer (I spend as little time as possible at the base doing prep, and only gather the minimum resources needed for the next thing I want to build), but as you can see I was not a fan of the longer build times -- and that's pretty much the reason right there: I want to spend time exploring, not stuck at the base.
And I would be stuck at the base with the longer crafting times, because the only reason I went back to the base was to build something I needed for the next trip (or to clear inventory / eat food etc). So there's not much point going out again without the item I wanted to make, and even if I did go out, I wouldn't get far before the timer was up and I'm "wasting" time that it could be crafting the next thing. Because ironically, the longer timers weren't long enough to justify an excursion.
First post in these forums, so I'll start by saying this game was a very pleasant surprise. I like it very much and I am eager to play the final version when it will be done (no hurry). My thanks to the dev team.
Now about the waiting times. There is two kind of waiting time, the short ones and the long ones.
When the waiting time is long enough that you can do something else, then it is not a big deal. Taking this to the extreme, waiting an hour for the Cyclop to be build would not bother me if I can go exploring, farming or whatever and return to find my shining new submarine later. But of course long wait times would be only for thing like the submarines, to do it for small components would not be fun.
Now, waiting times of, say, 10 secondes or a few minutes, are not long enough to really start another activity, so you wait in front a the screen doing nothing. And that is boring. I play games for the fun and the challenge, and for me waiting on something to happen while sitting in front of the screen is neither.
Cyran makes a good point, actually, I wouldn't mind waiting that long for the Cyclops to be built. The vehicles are a significant enough upgrade to make it feel worthwhile.
Thanks for the poll! That's actually really helpful.
Thanks Charlie! Very glad it helped! I knew discussions on this topic had already started but I thought a poll would be the best way to let everyone express their opinion.
I wish the devs would have run a poll like this for the Seaglide power consumption nerf. THAT feels like it doesn't necessarily have to go back to the original setting, but the current one is FAR to far in the opposite direction, begging for a middle ground.
When the waiting time is long enough that you can do something else, then it is not a big deal. Taking this to the extreme, waiting an hour for the Cyclop to be build would not bother me if I can go exploring, farming or whatever and return to find my shining new submarine later. But of course long wait times would be only for thing like the submarines, to do it for small components would not be fun.
While I agree in principle, part of the magic of building a Cyclops for the first time is in actually being there when it finally completes and splashes down into the ocean. Having the timer made longer so that the player is likely to be elsewhere when it finishes would ruin that moment, without pulling some arbitrary shenanigans (it doesn't actually splash down until you get back to the platform, or something like that).
Comments
My feedback is thus;
Whether you agree or disagree with longer crafting times, one thing is certain. The devs listen to the fans.
That's why it was changed, and that's why it's being changed again.
Well done on being better than 90% of dev teams regardless.
So having options is a bad thing? Its the best way to make both sides happy. We all get what we want.
I am optimistic we'll see a bunch of 3 second timers tops for common objects like food, scrap to ore, wire, chips, etc. Rather than half measures.
And if not, Looking forward to the Devs listening to further feedback instead of how many Devs will act offended people are not satisfied with the first quick adjustment (again, see above). As Game dev is an ongoing process, not a "patched it once, DONE" process (Otherwise, timers would not have been added in the first place either).
EDIT:
Options as the eventual end result would be nice, I agree. Though at the moment such a thing would probably split the difference in Dev attention, and timer counts would still required balancing feedback either way. Plus more odds of it being stuck as "always on" for things like hardcore settings.
I'd rather have a timer option most people are willing to use (check dat poll results), ready and balanced for when they make that checkbox. Instead of only leaving it as a feature people only people satisfied with minute+ timers on basic objects would use something people came out of the woodwork to say "Hey I made an account literally to say how much I do not like this feature".
Personally, I don't give a damn which one is standard. But then again neither should you.
I'm very happy with this game so far and am very much looking forward to more, but the past few updates have had somethings that bothered me and my observations have gone unheeded. So I will be switching to experimental and becoming far more active on this forum in the hopes of being able to help.
Space Engineers has long times as standard and nobody cares.
It's pretty easy to change the settings too. Its like 2 buttons.
Also, longer times make the game more fun to some people as has been explained before. It may not apply to you, but it does for some. Saying that it can't be fun like that is kind of insulting to everyone who thinks that it is. And your side was getting on our side's ass for being insulting.
And? That doesn't change the fact that people don't complain about the long crafting times because they can change it with two buttons. If that happened here I'm sure everyone would be fine with it, but of course you want no timers as standard in a childish case of, "No, I want MY name on the poster first." Also, I myself don't want to subject anyone to anything. I have been very adamant about the addition of options, which appeals to an even WIDER range of people because those who don't mind tedium can have it, and those that do can simply remove it.
If that's what you think about additional tedium, that you don't mind it, why do you want it in the game?
Perhaps I should've used the word "enjoyed" because, to me at least, more time put into making something makes it feel more rewarding to finally get it. I like that kind of thing in games, so long as the reward matches the tedium, and in this case it does. 4 minutes for something I not only have to craft a grand total of once, but will make use of for the rest of my time in-game, seems perfectly reasonable to me. You may think differently, and that's fine.
What about the time you spent gathering the materials or searching for the blueprints? Does that time not count because you spent it actually playing the game instead of being alt-tabbed or staring at a progress bar?
So much for avoiding the use of thinly veiled insults. That time counts as well, and I don't alt-tab or stare at the progress bar, I go gather more materials for my next item and actualy play the game, which has been said to be stupid by some, but hey, its how I play the game. Now please act your age, or since there's a distinct possibility you already are, act like an adult.
What are the times now?
I haven't insulted anyone. You, on the other hand, have called multiple people childish.
Firstly, the crafting timers are far too short to actually go play the game. After you've cleared out the general area around your base, you're going to have to go traveling significant distances to get more materials. In 4 minutes, I suppose I could hop in my Seamoth, drive out to the underwater islands and pick up a single piece of quartz. I'd run well over 4 minutes trying to get any significant amount of materials without even starting on the trip back. And that's the longest timer. Suggesting that people should go do other stuff for seven seconds is absurd.
Secondly, if you don't wait, and just go play the game, what did the crafting timer add to the game? Surely if you needed those resources, you would have gone to get them even if the thing you're crafting completed immediately? Why do you want crafting timers if they're not going to change how you play the game?
I wasn't insulting you. Merely pointing out the fact that there was a thinly veiled insult in your post and advising that you don't act like a child, which is simply something everyone here should do. Calling someone childish is an observation. Saying they're stupid because of that is an insult.
In 4 minutes, you can gather a plethora of fish, go grab some Crash powder( If you're near the SS, which I like to be because of how it looks), grab some usable flora such as mushrooms or Creepvine, etc. Or if you don't want to gather, you can quickly check your farms and power supply, build an addition to the layout of your base, get some nice looking plants to decorate your base with, and a multitude of other things. Mind you, I'm not arguing whether it adds to everyone's experience. Just what it adds to mine. I've already said, the more time it takes me to make something, the more satisfying it is to finally get it. That's how I enjoy the game.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/childish
I'm pretty sure that's an insult.
Even assuming you can do that stuff within 4 minutes, either you would have done it anyway after you crafted the item, or you don't actually need to do that stuff and are just doing it to fill the time. So either the crafting delay did not change what you were going to do, or it's wasting your time.
Do you also enjoy playing freemium mobile games that have waiting times of several real-life hours or days? After all, the longer it takes you to make something, the more satisfying it is to finally get it. You're not actually making anything. You're waiting for the fabricator to finish making the thing for you; waiting for the game to spit out the item. The only work you can possibly do is in gathering the materials and the blueprint fragments; that's the only part where you expend effort to get the thing. Crafting timers add no work, only waiting.
You continue to misunderstand, and assume I was using the term to insult you. I wasn't. You were acting immature and seemed to lack poise. I simply pointed that out to you. Then you go on to deliberately insult the way I like to play games, and perfectly good games such as Warframe which have long times to create certain things. Not everything with a wait time is a shitty mobile game, and a long wait time is not the deciding factor on what games I will and will not play. You still have not grasped the concept that you're arguing with me on how I like to enjoy Subnautica, and even YOU must see how utterly and deliberately belligerent and stupid that is.
Also, @ZestyCrabLegs, nice to know I have such a fan
I believe that the 2 sides of this argument can be summed up very easily. From what I've seen, the sides are mostly populated by one type of people or another. Those who believe that the exploration is the endgame of Subnautica occupy the "no build time" camp, and people who think that exploring should be done at all times occupy the "build time" camp. To clarify these types of people, a bit of explanation is required.
The endgame explorers are people who make sure that they have everything before exploring. They have a steady supply of food and water, as well as a large stockpile of pretty much every crafting material, in case they need something. The reason that they oppose crafting times is because it delays that endgame state where exploration is possible. If they don't have the item, they don't leave their safety. When crafting a replacement in the endgame phase, there is nothing for them to do. They don't need to go and gather resources because they already have them. They don't need to micromanage their fish tanks because that's already done. The reason they're on the no build side is that the absence of the item they are trying to get is the reason they're not doing anything, and thus the wait time is down time.
The alltime explorers are people who go and explore whenever. For them, the game is about exploration, so that's what they're going to do. Whenever they can, they load up a seamoth with supplies and scout around anywhere. These people might not have a steady supply of food because they are exploring instead of creating a supply of food. They haven't gotten to the point where going and farming 15 quartz is pointless because they have 60 in a locker. They haven't gotten to the point where there isn't a reason to build a new room in their base, since it's probably pretty empty. The reason they're on the build time side is because they have stuff to do in the down time created.
It's important for both sides of the argument to acknowledge that the other side has merit. It's perfectly fine to prepare so much that being given forced to take time to prepare more is droll. There's safety there. There's merit in exploring as often as possible. There's fun there.
What's more important is to acknowledge that one side of the argument satisfies both parties, and the other disgruntles the opposing side. I'll go about showing this very quickly and to the point. If there's a build timer, what happens to the endgame explorers? They get annoyed at the game. There's no reason for them to do anything for the time that they see the item crafting, so they get bored and annoyed. They may decide to sit and wait in the game, in which case some of their time is wasted, or they may tab out, in which case the game is not generating the 'fun' levels that games should generate. On the other hand, what happens if there is no build timer? People who don't want it are happy, but what of the alltime explorers, the ones who stand to 'lose' in this option? They get the item that they want instantly and still have use of those 30-180 seconds that the endgamers lose in the other option. In one scenario, about 2/3 of the community loses either some time or some interest in the game, but in the other scenario no players lose anything.
So which makes more logical sense: The option where nobody loses anything, or the option where 64% of the community loses some significant time because 24% of the community wants a change that wouldn't affect themselves much at all?
Increase the crafting time, give me option to set up custom difficulty, so I will do it by myself. I want a game to be a challenge, I want uber difficulty. I dont need another ez mode game. Playing on survival at the moment, and I dislike most of it, its way to simple.
That second reason might be a good justification for that "longer crafting time" malfunction, though. It'd probably be a bit hard to explain in-universe, though; it's an oddly specific malfunction.
Those are probably fair characterisations of different playstyles, but I'm not sure they map the way you're describing. Of the above, I would class myself as an alltime explorer (I spend as little time as possible at the base doing prep, and only gather the minimum resources needed for the next thing I want to build), but as you can see I was not a fan of the longer build times -- and that's pretty much the reason right there: I want to spend time exploring, not stuck at the base.
And I would be stuck at the base with the longer crafting times, because the only reason I went back to the base was to build something I needed for the next trip (or to clear inventory / eat food etc). So there's not much point going out again without the item I wanted to make, and even if I did go out, I wouldn't get far before the timer was up and I'm "wasting" time that it could be crafting the next thing. Because ironically, the longer timers weren't long enough to justify an excursion.
Now about the waiting times. There is two kind of waiting time, the short ones and the long ones.
When the waiting time is long enough that you can do something else, then it is not a big deal. Taking this to the extreme, waiting an hour for the Cyclop to be build would not bother me if I can go exploring, farming or whatever and return to find my shining new submarine later. But of course long wait times would be only for thing like the submarines, to do it for small components would not be fun.
Now, waiting times of, say, 10 secondes or a few minutes, are not long enough to really start another activity, so you wait in front a the screen doing nothing. And that is boring. I play games for the fun and the challenge, and for me waiting on something to happen while sitting in front of the screen is neither.