Update 295 Released! - Natural Selection 2

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  • woozawooza SwitzerlandMembers, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2013-11-21 Member: 189496Posts: 171 Fully active user
    edited April 2016
    My servers are offline because a troll is ddosing my servers 24/7 so I took them offline to prevent any further damage.

    Edit: I suggested my regs to play on servers I recommended. Some of them do, some of them won't open the game.
    ChrisStark
  • YojimboYojimbo EnglandMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Posts: 1,252 Advanced user
    dePARA wrote: »
    @wooza
    I can tell you why the playerbase has dropped a bit.
    Cause your community is on strike (isnt your server down atm? ) and try to blackmail the devs with exact this.
    "Oh look, the average playerbase is going down by 30. This is "proof" that the changes didnt help in player retention of new players.

    Well, im sure your coordinate this strike on discord and thats the reason for no proof.

    I thought he was being DDoS?
    Today's rookies are tomorrow's vets.

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

    George Carlin.
  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, ArizonaMembers, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Posts: 758 admin
    edited April 2016
    We actually have more players than last year at this time. It's not a huge number, but it's better, and it's looking brighter.

    Again, we do not ignore anyone. The ragdoll change was specifically something we borrowed from NS2+ for those that wanted it and use it, and the font change was made to provide better support for non-standard Latin character sets (yay other languages!). While I agree that the ragdoll change could do with an on/off feature as it was in NS2+, I think that efforts should be focused elsewhere in the time being.

    On the topic of ignoring voices, I do agree that we could probably work on better transparency with what is happening, surely, but I'd rather hope that we not hype features or fixes in the event that they take longer than usual (new main menu, looking at you!). Transparency would help greatly in showing you guys what exactly is a priority for the team, but also allow you guys to discuss it before its thoroughly through the pipeline. Though understand, for features and annoyances with NS2, not everything is fixed in a day, and we're also taking new directions with NS2 to propel it forward, so priorities shift through development.

    Retention is the biggest thing, and we're still figuring it out. NS2 is not an easy game, nor is it a forgiving one. People like that about NS2. I like that about NS2. I don't think those things will necessarily change. But things like performance, the optimal game experience, tutorials (coming very soon!), forms of player gating, and otherwise are the main drivers of change and increased retention.
    CDT Map Testing Lead and NA Playtesting Whip
    Steam / Watch live video from zavaro on Twitch / Twitter
    Have a bug in NS2? Report it in the thread! If you can, post how to reproduce it, or private message me on the forum!
    IronHorse2cough
  • VetinariVetinari Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Posts: 3,469 Advanced user
    wooza wrote: »
    ztttlt2iu8ds.png

    @wooza
    Looking at the trends of the whole month, I fail to see anything dramatic:
    http://steamcharts.com/app/4920#1m

    Looking at the three month charts it seems that the playerbase actually increased a little after the 12th (Probably due to the update), then went back to normal:
    http://steamcharts.com/app/4920#3m

    And you might notice that it's going down at the very end - that's the data of today. It's literally going down because by noon (time of this posting), most players haven't played yet.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
  • woozawooza SwitzerlandMembers, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2013-11-21 Member: 189496Posts: 171 Fully active user
    @F0rdPrefect
    Don't forget that the last days my servers were online too with players on it (only sometimes, till the attacks continued).

    I don't want to say people quit NS2 because I shut down the servers. I want to say people leave the game because they do not agree with the changes the devs made.

    UWE wants to dicate what fun is and how NS2 is meant for them to be played, but on the other side they "care" for the player retention. Those two will never be in a harmony.
    ImmortalKing
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United StatesMembers Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Posts: 729 Advanced user
    wooza wrote: »
    I don't want to say people quit NS2 because I shut down the servers.

    Yet you did shut down your servers according to you. Furthermore you first said it was due to lack of players because of the change, now you say it's because you're being ddos'd (which is not the fault of UWE or any changes they made)

    So just to clarify, which is it? Their changes "killing" your playerbase, or someone ddos'ing your servers?
    wooza wrote: »
    I want to say people leave the game because they do not agree with the changes the devs made.

    I still haven't seen anyone leave due to the recent changes.. Still waiting for you to show this "drastic decrease" that the recent changes caused.

    Honestly if your servers are down then it looks to me like we gained players.
  • VetinariVetinari Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Posts: 3,469 Advanced user
    Martigen wrote: »
    *long*

    This is probably the best post that has been made on the entire debate. It is structured, conclusive and backs it's claims up with data. I concede you are right on all points.

    What should we learn from this?
    NS2 probably needs two gamemodes - one for large and one for small servers. (Proper gamemodes, I mean; with maps and fine tuned balancing. Props to the guys who are modding in that direction though.) I can't really see it happening, but it would be great in ns3. (Along with matchmaking, ranked play, ....)
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
    ChrisStark
  • FoxyFoxy United KingdomMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2014-08-19 Member: 198032Posts: 470 Advanced user
    ... the original meaning is still implied.

    Apart from the minor detail that it is absolutely categorically is not. But ok pal.
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NYMembers, Constellation Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Posts: 1,481 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    There's one thing that other games with very varying player count servers do to make this all OK.

    They have a traditional ranked mode.

    Ranked modes allow players to actively, conscientiously and purposely better their game-play in hopes of joining ranked play and rising through the ranks as they progress, eventually choosing to continue playing at their "found level" or joining a team to continue their progression in an even more rewarding way.

    We don't have that, well... We could, but we need to have officially sponsored "ranked" modes like CompMod. How to have this without matchmaking? You can't, really, but you can limit things like Hive Score to CompMod enabled servers with locked playercounts. This keeps it clear what the game is designed and balanced around to all players, and that all other game modes are there FOR FUN.

    Because just like people say that high count servers take players from lower counts, I know that's bull-shit because if CompMod went away I would go away too. Same fucking difference
    mattji104
    devel
  • VetinariVetinari Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Posts: 3,469 Advanced user
    Frozen wrote: »
    There's one thing that other games with very varying player count servers do to make this all OK.

    They have a traditional ranked mode.

    Ranked modes allow players to actively, conscientiously and purposely better their game-play in hopes of joining ranked play and rising through the ranks as they progress, eventually choosing to continue playing at their "found level" or joining a team to continue their progression in an even more rewarding way.

    We don't have that, well... We could, but we need to have officially sponsored "ranked" modes like CompMod. How to have this without matchmaking? You can't, really, but you can limit things like Hive Score to CompMod enabled servers with locked playercounts. This keeps it clear what the game is designed and balanced around to all players, and that all other game modes are there FOR FUN.

    Because just like people say that high count servers take players from lower counts, I know that's bull-**** because if CompMod went away I would go away too. Same **** difference

    -> Complete Hive2, introduce ranked play (maybe even 6v6 AND 8v8) with matchmaking, make ns2 f2p: Bam, players. And if you throw in some hats: Profit.

    If you advertise it right, it could turn into the big esports game it maybe should have been. If not... there's always ns3.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
  • WakeWake Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14351Posts: 723 Advanced user
    I wish this debate could take place in its own topic, in a factual constructive way, in wich every argument against persons or not related would be strictly censored.

    People could expose, without beeing called names or NS2 unworthy, what they like in their favourite environment size.

    295 has nothing to do with that.
    Freak out
    Zavaro
  • SaltlickSaltlick Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177347Posts: 86 Advanced user
    need gibs in next patch
    IeptBarakatmeatmachineDaveodeth
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Members Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Posts: 571 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    Zavaro wrote: »
    such as seeing how many people complete the tutorial. It's valuable information.

    I think we need some sort of commander tutorial.
    I'd recommend a tutorial that teaches how to ARC, how to assist your team in big fights (usefulness of catalyst, usefulness of nano-shield), how and when to echo structures like whips, crags, harvesters, upgrades and the different path of upgrades and their specific advantages for both sides.
    If commanders could be better in average, games would be more fun in average.
    SupaFredPoopsythe34ChrisStark
  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    Al i see in this forum is this:
    The same 10 people bringing the same arguments pro large servers while the same 10 people bringing the same arguments against large servers.

    Then i read "The Devs are not listen to us, they are killing NS2"

    So, who is "us" here.
    The 10 pro or the 10 against?
    What about the current 300 players who dont post here?
    Are they "us"?

    Maybe the Devs have more information based on statistics?

    So we lost so many players cause the last patch?
    Lets see:
    http://steamcharts.com/app/4920#1m

    We have lost many players during April/May to summer last year also and the year before.
    And, what a suprise in the 1st year also.
    Maybe this is patch independend?
    Maybe its cause something called SUN wich is outside and let people doing something else than playing?

    But im sure some of "us" ignore this fact.
    So please stop saying that the game is losing players 1 week after the patch cause the patch.
    You have no proven data and the game has lost players before alot (where the large server where normally acceccable).

    If the collected stats tell the devs another story that some of "us" thinking, they might be on the right track to save NS2.
    Maybe some of "us" dont like these facts then. Well, like Ironhorse said, its not your game.
    image
    ChrisStark
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
    I had a partially amusing thought, what if instead of sorting by the amount of player slots a server has, the server browser instead sorts them by the percentage of filled player slots in relation to the max player size a server has.

    I think the best solution is to sort by the ranking function used for "play now." This is mostly sorting by ping, but it prioritizes servers that are just on the cusp of having enough players for a good game.
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    moultano wrote: »
    I had a partially amusing thought, what if instead of sorting by the amount of player slots a server has, the server browser instead sorts them by the percentage of filled player slots in relation to the max player size a server has.

    I think the best solution is to sort by the ranking function used for "play now." This is mostly sorting by ping, but it prioritizes servers that are just on the cusp of having enough players for a good game.

    Well the best way to do that would be to have a custom filter of sorts, with a checklist of preferred variables. Optimally it would be set up as default to sort by best filled player slot ratio, ping, and server performance. Then have additional options for server size, gamemode, and favorite servers. The important thing is to not take control away from the server browser, just make it easier for people to find what they want. (and don't decide what they want for them)
  • ZavaroZavaro Tucson, ArizonaMembers, Super Administrators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2005-02-14 Member: 41174Posts: 758 admin
    Zavaro wrote: »
    such as seeing how many people complete the tutorial. It's valuable information.

    I think we need some sort of commander tutorial.
    I'd recommend a tutorial that teaches how to ARC, how to assist your team in big fights (usefulness of catalyst, usefulness of nano-shield), how and when to echo structures like whips, crags, harvesters, upgrades and the different path of upgrades and their specific advantages for both sides.
    If commanders could be better in average, games would be more fun in average.

    There are plans for this and we have some preliminary drafts, but only so much can be done in such a short period. Beige didn't sleep last night trying to finish up the new basic Alien tutorial for an impending release. I'm super excited to see how it plays, as the marine one which will be bundled with it is top notch.
    CDT Map Testing Lead and NA Playtesting Whip
    Steam / Watch live video from zavaro on Twitch / Twitter
    Have a bug in NS2? Report it in the thread! If you can, post how to reproduce it, or private message me on the forum!
    RevanCorana
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain HighMembers, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Posts: 1,025 Advanced user
    @Aeglos
    The difference, as I said, is not something I notice at all.
  • AeglosAeglos Members Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Posts: 644 Advanced user
    Why don't you release the whole thing instead of cherry picking?
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain HighMembers, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Posts: 1,025 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    haha dude.. cherry picking? my shadow play only saves 4 minutes at a time, i'm not goin thru the many, many hours of shadowplay that i have to please you about some totally moot point. I picked the first 2 ragdoll clips i found that i didnt immdiately look away from after the engagement ended so you could see. Maybe it never bugged out for me? you said yourself it happens "sometimes" in that comment you linked (good contribution btw). You dont see them instantly dissolving in the 291 clip? I dont even get the point you're trying to make. That i'm a liar? good point, glad you brought it up.
  • ArchieArchie AntarcticaMembers, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58028Posts: 441 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    Hey guys it seems that the name implementation isn't working very well, i've changed my name in game and it now changes my steam profile name. not the other way around?

    it even changed my steam profile previous names i hadn't even used some of those names for ages (6months-1year+)!

    Can you please fix this issue?

    4rscfcr2.2af.png

    Last name i used was Flayra, it changed my steam profile name to Flayra, made my profile name look messy and besides i hadn't used these names on this update, so why did it change my name to previous names i used in game, didn't realise you were tracking that meta data! would love to get my hands on that :D
    IPB Image Constellation - a great source of income :> http://www.netplanet.co.nz/ns/
  • AeglosAeglos Members Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Posts: 644 Advanced user
    edited April 2016
    2cough wrote: »
    haha dude.. cherry picking? my shadow play only saves 4 minutes at a time, i'm not goin thru the many, many hours of shadowplay that i have to please you about some totally moot point. I picked the first 2 ragdoll clips i found that i didnt immdiately look away from after the engagement ended so you could see. Maybe it never bugged out for me? you said yourself it happens "sometimes" in that comment you linked (good contribution btw). You dont see them instantly dissolving in the 291 clip? I dont even get the point you're trying to make. That i'm a liar? good point, glad you brought it up.

    The point I was making was that NS2+ doesn't solve the issue completely. And yes, that is cherry picking. In addition to the first two you didn't look away from, you could easily filter away those whose ragdolls that didn't dissolve. I can do that too. Two dead, one dissolved.
    5AnzW5S

    "Sometimes" is also often enough that it made an impression. As for never happening to you, I find that rather unlikely. Did you never get any rifle jams or get phased back to the same gate as well?

    Edit - Image works in a new tab. Can't embed it properly.
  • Bobby_WasabiBobby_Wasabi USAMembers Join Date: 2016-04-20 Member: 215990Posts: 5 Fully active user
    edited April 2016
    The Ragdoll issue can be fixed with a simple toggle or slider. IMPLEMENT IT <<<<<<<<<<<<<

    The font needs to be fixed, it way too fucking big.

    Just realized that Steam names and IGN is now linked. This bothers me a lot, since I play with a different name on NS2 than on other games.

    If you guys are so worried about player retention, then hire some veteran players to teach the god damn greenies how to play in rookie only servers. Give them a badge and everything.

    If UWE keeps taking this game into the wrong direction, I'll probably just quit playing NS2 and sell my PC, maybe hit the gym and delete my non-existent Facebook.
    RevanCorana
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain HighMembers, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Posts: 1,025 Advanced user
    Aeglos wrote: »
    2cough wrote: »
    while I don't notice the rag doll changes as I've already had them set to disappear immediately in ns2+ for as long as i can remember having the option, I'm not sure why a slider wasn't introduced into vanilla as it had already been in aforementioned ns2+.

    I call bullshit.

    I'm supposed to get that ns2+ doesnt solve what issue completely from "i call bullshit?" All i said was i dont notice the change because i dont. you can carry on your crusade if you want, but i really dont care. you're probably right, they probably linger sometimes, but i havent noticed enough to have it make "an impression," and honestly you can take my word for it or not, i picked the first clips i found of ragdolls in view after kill. No "filtering" of videos, just not wasting any more time on this.
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Here, lets be very clear. It is impossible to not notice this change, especially if you have it has bothered you enough previously for you to enable instant ragdoll dissolve in NS2+. Claiming otherwise is just dishonest.

    So again, all I'm actually seeing is you saying i'm being dishonest, which is why i quickly put together the clip; to show how negligible the difference is to me . I dont see the need to even bring it up in the first place, just seems like nastiness for nastiness' sake. have fun w/ that.
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