X-Post from Modding: Imminent Update to Break Certain Mods
Hugh
CameramanSan Francisco, CA Join Date: 2010-04-18 Member: 71444NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts
CameramanSan Francisco, CA Join Date: 2010-04-18 Member: 71444NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts
Got an NS2 mod on the Steam Workshop? An imminent NS2 update may cause it to break, but fear not. Fixes have been provided in advance! Go here for an explanation from @SamusDroid, who has taken on the lead technical role in this upcoming update: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/134716/important-imminent-update-to-break-certain-mods-fix-included#latest
Comments
Rapid patching (or 'hot fixing') of specific high profile issues such as the failure of a map have a significantly detrimental effect on the likelihood that Unknown Worlds can continue to support Natural Selection 2 in the long term. This effect is caused by their propensity to severely damage future updates, inherent high risk of failure, and most importantly extremely high opportunity cost. In fact, they are so damaging that the threshold for performing one is now set exceedingly high. While it is certainly frustrating to all concerned to have to live with an issue for an extended period, the best solution is for Unknown Worlds to improve the quality of product releases.
Yes, yes it is!
But hey, new patch soon so hurrah!!
I'm honestly not sure how to engage productively with your post, @RisingSun. The response I gave is a factual explanation of why 'hot-fixes' don't happen, and while I would be happy to discuss that explanation in more detail, it appears to me that you would prefer I didn't discuss the topic at all. I understand your desire for rapid updates that address small issues, but am simply trying to explain why such updates would, in the long term, result in Unknown Worlds being unable to offer Natural Selection 2 any updates at all.
If people do have questions for me about NS2 development, and 265 (not the features, obviously that's a secret until Friday! But the development process, the funding model, etc), I would be happy to answer. It is not often the case that such a mature game could receive the kind of update Natural Selection 2 is about to receive so long after release, and the topic of 265's execution is very interesting from a business and production perspective.
I'll poke my head back into this thread in the morning PST!
Except you didn't explain anything, like RisingSun said. If you can actually "discuss that explanation in more detail" I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate it, but at the moment all we got was a bunch of nondescript corporate catchphrases that mean nothing. All we hear is "it's broken and we didn't fix it cuz 2hard/cbf".
Forgive me for my cynical attitude but we get the same thing over and over from you and as soon as somebody calls you out on it you just go on the defensive and claim things like "not sure how to engage productively". If this was the first time this has happened I'd cut you some slack, but you rarely say anything productive to begin with.
Now let's hold hands n be nice mmmmk. :x
1) UWE wants to focus on longer patch (quality) patch periods instead of bi-weekly (rushed) patches that are guaranteed to require hotfixes.
2) Bi-weekly (rushed) patches and their mandatory hotfixes are stressful to UWE (and UWE's work hours) and will eventually burn out future development.
3) The current "hotfixes" requested by the community on the current build are simply a victim of UWE's change of focus between the two patching methods.
You know, Hugh, you're a really cool guy. I like you. But this paragraph does nothing but sounding pretentious. And sometimes, it's better to not feed the trolls; even though it's arguably not trolling anymore after such a long time.
But we are not here to discuss that.
Let's just celebrate the new patch in advance, ok?
King of word soup strikes again.
So as long as Mineshaft is not fixed by UWE, it is lost. Right now it has been taken from map cycle or people skip it right from the start.
-What exactly does development mean and when will it be finished?
-As you say, ns2 is a mature game, can we expect the game to finalize in a state where UWE fixes all bugs and releases something like an enhanced version/gold version of the game or will the game not recive any updates after a certain point and we will be stuck with band-aids and several bugs we have to live with?
-What is the company's policy about the final goal for NS2?
P.S.: An advise to fix mods in advance is great! I bet MvM will profit a lot from it. The community would have loved that right from the beginning, though. We could still have a free 'working' combat mod that way. Imagine what NS2's community content would had been and how many extra sales would it had created with good player advertisement...
Not quite sure how a hot fix could "severely damage future updates" - especially something like fixing Mineshaft (which you'd think would only take 1 guy like 5 minutes to fix but w/e)
At any rate I guess the question to ask now is... will build 256 include the things that should have been fixed a long time ago? Mainly the names not showing in the browser, and Mineshaft.
This should be something you can either confirm or deny as it's not a "feature" in any way.
Being unable to see who is in a server before joining is EXTREMELY annoying, and as others have pointed out Mineshaft may as well currently be non-existent. In fact I know of only one server in my ping range that runs the Mineshaft fix. (all the others have it removed from the rotation)
Just to clarify, we are double, and triple checking Mineshaft (and all maps). We have been holding DOUBLE playtests for the last few weeks - almost like we were before NS2 got released. There are reasons for this, which hopefully you will all get to see VERY soon on May 1st. I can't promise 265 will be bug-free, (who can right?) but as of right now it is looking very solid.
This is false. We have a PT called Carnage from Poland who runs 32bit Windows Vista - he keeps us in check with the 32bit limit.
And Modders are usually Uwe devs or SamusDroid, so...
Friday? I thought you said the release is on May 1st
It's been obvious for the longest time that ns2 has been left to modders to fix
Let me help you with some comprehension
Read: We are busy making an aquarium simulator. ns2 is no longer able to be supported, as much as we would like to pretend we are doing so via modders.
Great to see that Mineshaft is being worked on! Thanks for the hard work.
Err... and what do you expect them to do? Just carry on working on NS2 non-stop? World doesn't work that way, bud.
Here's hoping for a successful SN, and then transition back to NS, with NS3 including underwater environments by applying lessons learned with SN development. Swimming skulks wall-jumping off coral reefs? Exos floating through an underwater mineshaft? Yes please!
Stop putting words in my mouth.
Where did anyone put words in your mouth? Nice dodge. Comprehension: work on it.