IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
Whew this thread, someone turned up the heat in here didn't they?
Since Derelict was cancelled, is it unlikely we'll ever see a new map for the game straight from UWE?
Is it within reason to expect popular community maps like ns2_Kodiak to be integrated into the official map pool at some point?
Can you please let people use the inbuilt Steam server browser to browse servers before launching the game?
Will NS2 ever get support to have custom mods on servers without using the Steam Workshop?
When is the BUS going to be unveiled?
Give Fade Acid Rockets.
I eagerly await the next update, whatever it may include.
I apologize for using this thread to vent my frustration. I'll take another long break from general since nothing will change anytime soon anyway. Im just wasting space.
I don't know why anyone is even bothering with this thread until the patch has been released, because the patch will speak for itself on whether UWE is truely committed to this game anymore.
LokiJoin Date: 2012-07-07Member: 153973Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited April 2014
Derelict may no longer be a UWE project but its my project now (although others can do their own version if they do so wish), to follow up my map kodiak.
Being a similar theme so expect that to be of the same standards if not better, as naturally you get better the more you do stuff right?
Atleast this time because a lot of the hardwork with derelict has been done expect it to be done in a better timeframe. (aka not over a year, yes a year, FYI kodiak took nearly 15 months)
Stop with the sunshine and rainbows attitude. They wont learn if people stay quiet.
Not necessarily directed towards you per se, but I'll never get how people manage to justify their inability to demonstrate tact, or never even realize its effectiveness over hostility or rudeness. It's like you think devs read such posts and immediately empathize with you, instead of recoiling in disgust and disappointment.
This reply immediately comes to mind, displaying the realistic consequences that aren't realized by those individuals :
Stop with the sunshine and rainbows attitude. They wont learn if people stay quiet.
Not necessarily directed towards you per se, but I'll never get how people manage to justify their inability to demonstrate tact, or never even realize its effectiveness over hostility or rudeness.
I agree, there's a fine line between constructive criticism and flame that is not being adhered to these days. The devs know a good number of the complaints that steam through the gaping maws of the NS2 community but are reluctant to communicate on the matter lest they get burned by the boiling atmosphere exuded within.
Captain Orangepants is tasked with this perilous mission, and while most ready their spears and pitchforks for the moment they misunderstand his skillfully crafted dialogue on the matter, there are always those of us who look outward, eager and thankful for any information that may be sent our way.
Whew this thread, someone turned up the heat in here didn't they?
Since Derelict was cancelled, is it unlikely we'll ever see a new map for the game straight from UWE?
Is it within reason to expect popular community maps like ns2_Kodiak to be integrated into the official map pool at some point?
Can you please let people use the inbuilt Steam server browser to browse servers before launching the game?
Will NS2 ever get support to have custom mods on servers without using the Steam Workshop?
When is the BUS going to be unveiled?
Give Fade Acid Rockets.
I eagerly await the next update, whatever it may include.
Kodiak is a popular community map? Every time I've played it everyone just talks about how bad it is and it typically gets voted off after one round, lol.
Whew this thread, someone turned up the heat in here didn't they?
Since Derelict was cancelled, is it unlikely we'll ever see a new map for the game straight from UWE?
Is it within reason to expect popular community maps like ns2_Kodiak to be integrated into the official map pool at some point?
Can you please let people use the inbuilt Steam server browser to browse servers before launching the game?
Will NS2 ever get support to have custom mods on servers without using the Steam Workshop?
When is the BUS going to be unveiled?
Give Fade Acid Rockets.
I eagerly await the next update, whatever it may include.
Kodiak is a popular community map? Every time I've played it everyone just talks about how bad it is and it typically gets voted off after one round, lol.
Only because it's not Summit Tram or Veil, and similar to Mineshaft so people automatically assume it's bad. Also because first impressions, people first played it when it was not even close to done, had a terrible game and then hated it because of that.
Kodiak is a great map. Except the competitive players, no pubber in game gives me any rational reason not to play that map. Custom maps have a negative stigma on them.
Again, thank you for continuing to help the game out even when the devs don't care anymore.
He is a part of the dev team. Also, just because the rest of the dev team is busy with other things does not in any way mean that they no longer care about NS2. Stop assuming things about people who you do not even know.
I just wish that:
-Mineshaft is fixed
-Keyboard bindings with primary and secondary key.
-1 More map as suggested. Considering Docking has a problem (oh yeah that pain), Eclipse and Veil are NS1 maps. We don't "roll" with many it seems. Custom are ... custom somehow. Many project seems abandoned to say the least.
I do have a question. Can you give us a rough overview about the steps involved from getting a simple hotfix patched into the game? I'm interested how the workflow at UWE works, and I think that would increase understanding from all sides a lot.
I understand, however, if that is considered "too secret" data for the public.
It's certainly not too secret @F0rdPrefect, here goes:
1. Determine that a 'hotfix' issue has crossed a threshold of severity warranting a 'hotfix'
2. Scope update: Determine what will be changed
3. Reallocate resources: Stop work on whatever was previously scoped, to the degree necessary to implement (2)
4. Modify production schedule to account for (3)
5. Make changes
6. Revert work unrelated to changes in (5): This is a consequence of the way NS2's repositories work, is particularly damaging, and something we have fixed for Subnautica
7. Test changes over several playtest group cycles, each lasting 24 hours
8. Fix cascading, unpredictable failures caused by (5)
9. Fix cascading, unpredictable failures caused by the introduction of features or fixes not included in (2), otherwise known as 'just one more fix!'
10. Repeat steps 5 through 9 until acceptable risk of build failure reached
11. 'Lock down' build
12. Deal with reversion and failures introduced when 'lock down' breached (NS2 has very open repositories, and is difficult to lock down)
13. If (12) successful, go to (14), otherwise (as is often the case) return to (5).
14. Conduct outreach to notify community of update existence and form
15. Upload build to Steam and press big red button (it's actually grey and more of a dropdown menu, unfortunately)
16. Update servers and notify community server operators of update
17. Notify community of existence and form of build
18. Assess reception of build across various metrics, determine, make decision on (1) and if necessary repeat all steps
The end result is an absolute disaster for the medium and long term value of Natural Selection 2. There are a huge number of interconnecting moving parts and every one of them must be moving properly for even the tiniest update to go out. Most of those moving parts do not scale with the size of the changelog.
Whew this thread, someone turned up the heat in here didn't they?
Since Derelict was cancelled, is it unlikely we'll ever see a new map for the game straight from UWE?
Is it within reason to expect popular community maps like ns2_Kodiak to be integrated into the official map pool at some point?
Can you please let people use the inbuilt Steam server browser to browse servers before launching the game?
Will NS2 ever get support to have custom mods on servers without using the Steam Workshop?
When is the BUS going to be unveiled?
Give Fade Acid Rockets.
I eagerly await the next update, whatever it may include.
1. Yes, it is exceedingly unlikely that you will ever see a new map for NS2 straight from UWE
2. This is a very complex question, dependent on multiple factors, including the success or otherwise of the Kodiak Pack on Steam and the Kodiak Update in the hands of players, and also dependent on whether Natural Selection 2 can receive further updates at all
3. No particular feature of fix can be promised, as all are subject to triage, competing for limited resources
4. See (3) although this one is even more unlikely than (1), as with any other change that is a 'system' addition of some kind
5. Fall 2019
6. Fall 2009
Ok, I won't be ducking into this thread anymore as it seems to be mostly derailed, but I'm sure there will be an opportunity for more Q&A in future threads
Comments
Since Derelict was cancelled, is it unlikely we'll ever see a new map for the game straight from UWE?
Is it within reason to expect popular community maps like ns2_Kodiak to be integrated into the official map pool at some point?
Can you please let people use the inbuilt Steam server browser to browse servers before launching the game?
Will NS2 ever get support to have custom mods on servers without using the Steam Workshop?
When is the BUS going to be unveiled?
Give Fade Acid Rockets.
I eagerly await the next update, whatever it may include.
Comp mod 4 LIFE!!
Being a similar theme so expect that to be of the same standards if not better, as naturally you get better the more you do stuff right?
Atleast this time because a lot of the hardwork with derelict has been done expect it to be done in a better timeframe. (aka not over a year, yes a year, FYI kodiak took nearly 15 months)
This reply immediately comes to mind, displaying the realistic consequences that aren't realized by those individuals : :-\
I agree, there's a fine line between constructive criticism and flame that is not being adhered to these days. The devs know a good number of the complaints that steam through the gaping maws of the NS2 community but are reluctant to communicate on the matter lest they get burned by the boiling atmosphere exuded within.
Captain Orangepants is tasked with this perilous mission, and while most ready their spears and pitchforks for the moment they misunderstand his skillfully crafted dialogue on the matter, there are always those of us who look outward, eager and thankful for any information that may be sent our way.
P.S. This is tongue in cheek.
Kodiak is a popular community map? Every time I've played it everyone just talks about how bad it is and it typically gets voted off after one round, lol.
Only because it's not Summit Tram or Veil, and similar to Mineshaft so people automatically assume it's bad. Also because first impressions, people first played it when it was not even close to done, had a terrible game and then hated it because of that.
He is a part of the dev team. Also, just because the rest of the dev team is busy with other things does not in any way mean that they no longer care about NS2. Stop assuming things about people who you do not even know.
For fun.
I just wish that:
-Mineshaft is fixed
-Keyboard bindings with primary and secondary key.
-1 More map as suggested. Considering Docking has a problem (oh yeah that pain), Eclipse and Veil are NS1 maps. We don't "roll" with many it seems. Custom are ... custom somehow. Many project seems abandoned to say the least.
It's certainly not too secret @F0rdPrefect, here goes:
1. Determine that a 'hotfix' issue has crossed a threshold of severity warranting a 'hotfix'
2. Scope update: Determine what will be changed
3. Reallocate resources: Stop work on whatever was previously scoped, to the degree necessary to implement (2)
4. Modify production schedule to account for (3)
5. Make changes
6. Revert work unrelated to changes in (5): This is a consequence of the way NS2's repositories work, is particularly damaging, and something we have fixed for Subnautica
7. Test changes over several playtest group cycles, each lasting 24 hours
8. Fix cascading, unpredictable failures caused by (5)
9. Fix cascading, unpredictable failures caused by the introduction of features or fixes not included in (2), otherwise known as 'just one more fix!'
10. Repeat steps 5 through 9 until acceptable risk of build failure reached
11. 'Lock down' build
12. Deal with reversion and failures introduced when 'lock down' breached (NS2 has very open repositories, and is difficult to lock down)
13. If (12) successful, go to (14), otherwise (as is often the case) return to (5).
14. Conduct outreach to notify community of update existence and form
15. Upload build to Steam and press big red button (it's actually grey and more of a dropdown menu, unfortunately)
16. Update servers and notify community server operators of update
17. Notify community of existence and form of build
18. Assess reception of build across various metrics, determine, make decision on (1) and if necessary repeat all steps
The end result is an absolute disaster for the medium and long term value of Natural Selection 2. There are a huge number of interconnecting moving parts and every one of them must be moving properly for even the tiniest update to go out. Most of those moving parts do not scale with the size of the changelog.
Here goes @IeptBarakat, in order:
1. Yes, it is exceedingly unlikely that you will ever see a new map for NS2 straight from UWE
2. This is a very complex question, dependent on multiple factors, including the success or otherwise of the Kodiak Pack on Steam and the Kodiak Update in the hands of players, and also dependent on whether Natural Selection 2 can receive further updates at all
3. No particular feature of fix can be promised, as all are subject to triage, competing for limited resources
4. See (3) although this one is even more unlikely than (1), as with any other change that is a 'system' addition of some kind
5. Fall 2019
6. Fall 2009
Ok, I won't be ducking into this thread anymore as it seems to be mostly derailed, but I'm sure there will be an opportunity for more Q&A in future threads
Looking forward to BUS.