So when are you going to fix GL player damage? Never?
Omega_K2
Join Date: 2011-12-25 Member: 139013Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2011-12-25 Member: 139013Members, Reinforced - Shadow
see title.
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/133837/when-did-the-noob-gl-spam-start
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/124918/gl-just-fix-it
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/123521/the-gl-spam-is-still-not-fixed
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/133740/gl-spam
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/122226/endgame-marine-turtling-gl-spam
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/121033/reduce-the-gl-spam
Edit 02/03:
Summary of some ideas on how to "fix" GL, choose one or multiple.
General fixes:
- make projectiles more clearly visible to players [bright outlines]
- make them properly networked, so they can be avoided even in air and such
- improve ns2 lag compensation, so the damage feedback is much more instant rather then a felt ~1-2 second delayed (this pretty much would improve alien play A LOT), and reduce the issues with prediction (getting killed around corners, by marines not facing you, etc)
Anti-Structure
choose one or multiple
- Remove player damage, or reduce it drastically
-- to compensate, make GL cheaper or make it a secondary weapon
- Remove AoE player damage, only causing damage on impact
- Add large AoE falloff against _players_ (most damage on impact, signicantly less damage the further a player is away, i.e. quadratic (or higher), possibly even exponential falloff)
- Fixed ammo pool to reduce the "spam" effect (similar to hand grenades or mines)
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/133837/when-did-the-noob-gl-spam-start
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/124918/gl-just-fix-it
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/123521/the-gl-spam-is-still-not-fixed
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/133740/gl-spam
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/122226/endgame-marine-turtling-gl-spam
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/121033/reduce-the-gl-spam
Edit 02/03:
Summary of some ideas on how to "fix" GL, choose one or multiple.
General fixes:
- make projectiles more clearly visible to players [bright outlines]
- make them properly networked, so they can be avoided even in air and such
- improve ns2 lag compensation, so the damage feedback is much more instant rather then a felt ~1-2 second delayed (this pretty much would improve alien play A LOT), and reduce the issues with prediction (getting killed around corners, by marines not facing you, etc)
Anti-Structure
choose one or multiple
- Remove player damage, or reduce it drastically
-- to compensate, make GL cheaper or make it a secondary weapon
- Remove AoE player damage, only causing damage on impact
- Add large AoE falloff against _players_ (most damage on impact, signicantly less damage the further a player is away, i.e. quadratic (or higher), possibly even exponential falloff)
- Fixed ammo pool to reduce the "spam" effect (similar to hand grenades or mines)
Comments
I think most people know the problem becomes worse with higher players; I play 18 o. 22.
Don't want to end up as this is meant to be 6v6 and it's not an issue blah blah sitatuon, cause most people don't even play that way unless you're playing a competive match, and it is an issue with public games, which the majority of players plays.
There have been a bunch of ideas being thrown around how to balance GL, but I'm really for removing player AoE damage completly (unless direct impact or so), and rename it to "Anti-Structure Launcher".
Additional ideas besides removing player aoe damage to balance it out is reverting it to the lmg attachment, making it secondary (which possibly may not be equipable along side shotties for balance or require long weapon switch times).
* skulks 'forget' they can use ceilings, which would reduce the damage they take and most nades explode on ground level.
* Gorges are standing way to close.
* Fades and lers do their best to stand in front of marines instead of moving above and behind.
Direct aim is a lot harder with GL, take advantage of alien movement and yays.
Answer to all those: large AoE Damage player, invisible/barely visbile nades, NS2's netcode/feedback delay (which means you can and will get hit by nades BEFORE you see them or have a chance to react) -> people getting killed by marines spamming GL
better complain about those invisible/barely visible rifle and shotgun bullets too then.
To allow a support class to nullify another support class would be fair IMO.
With the help of modders, aka samusdroid.
Direct aim is hard, but a luck shot can be devastating to a fade and especially to a lerk. That's really my only complaint about the grenade launcher, the AOE spam is almost negligable but with enough spam they are bound to randomly hit directly from time to time and a single direct hit can kill a lerk.
A variety of different types of grenades to launch would be nice, just like with hand nades ( I remember gas grenades were on the feature list, but got cut like so many other things).
That is not true. Several uwe employees have worked on the last and upcoming patches. Yes, not the full team like before, but still quite a bit
I post this everytime I see a GL thread, but the reason directs are so hard in this game because the clients representation of the grenade model doesn't match the server, making it pretty much luck whether or not you hit someone with it. edit: along with the super high interp, doesn't work well with projectiles
What i'd like to see done is a fix for the above, a decrease in splash radius (or damage) and a slightly smaller hitbox for the grenade. That would drastically increase the skill ceiling for the grenade launcher while reducing the common spam.
However 15 res is rather silly for something that can cause so much devastation. Wouldn't care if the price was bumped back up to 25 res along with the FT.
Its like you are saying rifle and shotgun bullets only land because of luck, and that those two weapons also fall into the "Anti-structure" category, too.
Plz..
I've been very vocal about the so called anti structure weapon player damage since alpha days. It's gotten... better.. slightly.. since then..
Its utterly ridiculous that you can get one shotted by a random wayward projectile never intended nor designed for you.
Its frustrating at best, and skill-less at worst.
I say a good step would be to reduce player damage further, and add an outline/highlight to the projectile so that you have a chance at countering and preventing random deaths when coming around a corner.
Who told you this. 1st of all, modders, at most, help suggest stuff for patches. UWE never stopped development but slowed it down.
Right now I think they're fine, but GL getting direct hits on fades gets kind of annoying.
Wat. See the topic dates, some date back as far as 2012, and build 250 came out 8 months ago.
GL has been an issue since the beta, the antistructure weapon that is more commonly used against players, ever since beta. It used to be worse when it was an attachment (LMG + GL with player damage) because there was no downside compared to LMG (well, you lost rifle butt and it was OP for a while as compared to utterly useless like now), and the only things besides making it standalone was making it structual dmg (2x vs structures), doesn't stop it from being a viaable option to protect arcs or exos by simply spamming GL at their feet. Or other lameness like dropping an armory and just spamming endless waves of GL down a hallway (you can lock hives down that way).
And semi-oneshotting people with a weapon that requires zero 0 aim or barely any skill to use is not fine IMO.
Compare it to TF2's GL and sticky launcher, it's a weapon that is really strong, but it actually requires skill to use properly, the AoE dmg isn't as large, and the grenades are properly network compensated so you can actually avoid them, and you'll see them easily on the ground due to their very bright colours.
As for the the skills you need to use, the projectiles are somewhat effected by physics, so to hit running targets (esp scouts and such), you need to aim ahead and good timing, to use the sticky launcher you also need that skill and as for trap laying find and use good positions.
But keep in mind NS2's GL is meant to be anti-structure, and each weapon has a distinct role (or, at least UWE tried to give it one). Should not be anti-player, and if it should be, it should be fair and people should have more chances to avoid it if possible and as well that a skilled GL player can use it properly.
In NS2 projectile implementation pretty much sucks, applies to gorge projectiles but is even worse for the GL.
Few things that could be done, off course lower the P.Damage, increase the PRes cost of GLs or limit how many the marine team can have on the field at once.
I wouldn't worry about that. Hand grenades cost pRes. Our comm did this once on Biodome as a bit of fun (we had the whole map (literally), all rts except platform res (alien hive), he put an armory outside (from filtration side). 3 marines just got cluster grens and spammed the hive (we couldn't kills it - 1 crag basically nullified the cluster from 3 players constantly spamming). In the end we got bored (the res flow was such we could keep getting the grenades without running out of pRes) and brought shotties and just took the hive down.
I had a bot game, 8 marines, vs 16 aliens. We were winning. Sentries and mines are OP, not to mention bot AI. We decided to kill hive with grenades. Not only were they not effective at killing skulks, it took us too long to kill hive. We got bored.
I had this happen a couple of days ago with a drifter.