Well, people were complaining they were forced to play with AV on all the time because of the huge benefit it gives, while making things look ugly. Which was a shame, cause it's a pretty game to look at. So that's why it's being changed. I also think it still needs some work, both the standard vision and night vision, but it's progressing in the right direction.
I have said it before and I'll say it again. Just ditch the idea of an alien flashlight completely and slightly increase the outlines in the normal vision mode.
Guess what happens then? Game looks great, no one moans about it because it doesn't exist.
Either that, or have the alien flashlight create a bat like 'pulse' when deployed. So you see an outline of the dark room you are in that slowly fades back to the normal vision with outlines. The downside being marines can hear the pulse in the game, the upside being you can see the room layout for 5 - 10 seconds or whatever.
All I have to say is NS1 didn't really have dark rooms and the AV then was how it pretty much was last patch. What a silly change ;[
What the fuck am I reading, NS1 didn't have any dark rooms...wat...maybe if you had the 9L hacks pack with gammaramp 5, gamma 10.0 and Powerstrip running in the background yeah it wasn't technically a dark game...
Does anyone else have a thin yellow border around their screen with alien vision on?
i like the default alien vision better...i used to play with alien vision on all the time anyway and it sucked because i never got to see all the pretty textures created for the game...now i can see all the work put into the textures but still get help in dark rooms!
I'd say that alien vision is finally working as intended - its is basically a night vision visor, so obviously it's going to hurt your eyes when the lights are bright. I have absolutely no problem with this and, finally, playing as aliens does not mean you have to look at monotonous green screen all the frickin' time.
Why not just make it automatic, though? Aliens are animals, their retinas should simply be adaptive. Monochrome night vision should be activated automatically in the darkness, and fade to "normal" vision as our "eyes" get accustomed to the light. It would also be possible to blind the aliens in the brief moment the power comes on ;>
Personally I feel the new vision is really poor for two reasons
1) It's designed for dark rooms, despite them rarely ever becoming a tactical considerations for Aliens. Seriously there's like 10 seconds after killing a power node, but the power nodes are so resilient and repaired for free so it's rarely ever worth your time taking them out. Then afterwards the tactical advantage is lost. A whole vision mode for a redundant scenario.
2) It destroys the artistic immersion of playing Aliens. Now I play a slightly-better sighted human. It's just the killing of an artistic vision really - I knew I was an ailen, it felt like I was seeing the world through an alien's eyes. Now it looks like some cheap computer-vision - I half expect a target reticle to lock on my enemies...
Alien vision actually hurts my eyes with the bright orange.
Sorry guys - I know that every time a patch drops, there are people bitching and moaning about balance issues, etc, but when a game is physically uncomfortable to play, that's far beyond game mechanics issues.
Tone it down, change the palette (I could handle the darker green with the same "visibility" or something), but please come up with something better that doesn't blind your customers.
N.
Agree 1000% Great post.
Even if you treat the new alien vision as night vision there isn't enough "night time" for it to be useful. I'm only ever in 100% pitch black for a few seconds a game tops and if you get any where near the edge of the dark room you are completely blinded again.
now I thought a game developed was for the players to enjoy and not because the developers say so, the new alien vision is simply a joke...same applies to the dayglow orange around marines and structures, feels like I am back in a 70's disco.....player after player I have competed with over 1700 hours on NS2...not a single positive comment.....many leaving waiting for the next update, that includes admins and many people I have known since NS1.
With previous updates there was always mixed opinions about what had been developed.........been many years since all I have heard is a stream of negative comments........not a single one saying an improvement.
So.......is this a game for the community...or whoever made the decisions to release this latest update.
We shall see.............not withstanding the 6 hours it took me to get it running after the update installed.......this one isn't getting my vote.
What exactly was the reason for that change?
Where there so many complains about the "old vision"?
Is a little optical advantage when you have no distance weapon like marines to much overpowered?
Because the game looks nicer without "old vision"? (what a reason)
Or did it make a huge change in balance to change the vision?
(and if, then why it was not possible to add a "time limit" for the old alien vision?)
... Seriously, what is the reason behind that change?
For me this is a senseless change.
Why change that long "established feature"?
Was that really a thing called "problem"?
What exactly was the reason for that change?
Where there so many complains about the "old vision"?
Is a little optical advantage when you have no distance weapon like marines to much overpowered?
Because the game looks nicer without "old vision"? (what a reason)
Or did it make a huge change in balance to change the vision?
(and if, then why it was not possible to add a "time limit" for the old alien vision?)
... Seriously, what is the reason behind that change?
For me this is a senseless change.
Why change that long "established feature"?
Was that really a thing called "problem"?
Please... Never change a running system.
My understanding it was related to glass being invisible in the previous alien vision and the new map biodome.
I just about had it with this game.. for the longest time ive been living with bad fps.. now thats finally fixed but instead the alien vision is now horrible it practicly hurts my eyes and i find inpossible to see marines with either sigth specally when in close combat.. i mean wth?
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited August 2013
Sadly have to agree with what other people are saying. It isn't pleasant to look at, and its easy enough to see marines in pitch darkness with outline anyways.
1) The normal vision highlighting is a step in the right direction. Instead of orange and red, the color palette should be changed to more of a thermal heat vision.
2) I agree in premise to a 'night vision' only alien vision, but current powernode mechanics don't make it as neccessary. If the rooms stayed dark until marines came in and repaired the node to say, 25%, then it would absolutely be more useful in these situations.
3) You should try to make it similar to what the predator movie used:
That implementation would be far easier on the eyes and enjoyable. If the alien vision looked similar to that, then the flashlight would turn the darkness and walls a shade of blue, which would be almost pleasant over the current orangish red hue. I understand the aliens eyes glow orange, but its a minor thing ^^ It's possible to do away with alien flashlight entirely, and just have it do this automatically when it dark areas.
My understanding it was related to glass being invisible in the previous alien vision and the new map biodome.
Okay...
I don't know how many extreme glass structures / complex glass geometry biodome will have,
but I have to say that other maps had also glass walls / structures
(terminal in docking, operations in mineshaft, some places in descent)
and this was NEVER a problem before...
How does UWE decide that this is NOW a problem?
Still cant understand that change.
It's just the killing of an artistic vision really - I knew I was an ailen, it felt like I was seeing the world through an alien's eyes
I agree on that, i liked that it was different. Even if they nerf the alien vision then atleast change the default so it doen't look like i got marine eyes adopted as a alien.
Also i don't know why but i can't kill anything as an alien anymore. I miss almost every attack.
The first time i throw so many agree / disagree on the same topic. In fact on my whole history here.
The vision mod (link in other posts) was ok with just something more. Like the difference between marines (living/warm) and Structures (static but still warmer than a wall). Orange and Blue/green for example.
The reason why still eluding me on:
-Nerf it a little the original (distance)? Why not ? if you can see all the walls like the mod.
-Glass excuse is just plain bad why does it come in ? Ridiculous.
-This was the only asset that compensate the base speed issue. how it is balanced now ?
-No total darkness or long (power node down) enough to make it useful, why using it ?
On the other hand i can't see :
*why marines are still able to jump in all direction like beans while they shoot at a skulk ? When you run you can't shoot. there is a delay. but jumping, nope.
*why the maps fixed ? Some maps haven't been fixed (or fixed the wrong way) on many things like Elevator. You think you can hide there... nope nerf has been done so it looks like you are in a state of levitation (Tram/Elevator on top of tech point). What you see should be what you get.
*if key bindings are better ? o' come on !!!
*why we don't have more options to vote, and call admin, record, etc...
This is really not solving the main issues, we didn't need balance and cosmetics changes right now (with a new map). We needed all these little things that just make it better hugely.
I'm for removing the teeth on skulk since day one. Some agree, some don't as it would be removing what is part of NS identity. I'm afraid this thing IS !
While I understand the need for the change I feel like this was a total kneejerk reaction to it. Emergency lighting makes it too bright to see.
Instead I propose that infestation completely kill all lighting in a room and have structures provide very low ambient lighting that doesn't interfere with the new AV. This way aliens can switch between the two in areas they control to defend/ambush depending on if they need a better view on the room layout or not.
The old AV really did ruin any artistic vision as it was pointless and stupid to not have it on. The flip side now is that having AV on should be an alternate form of art and in it's current form it too will go unappreciated and unused.
Bottom line UWE, you took too many steps in the right direction. Find a way to fix AV to make it's use plausible because even in "dark" rooms I can't justify using it.
The only reason I can think of that would influence UWE to change AV is glass. Old AV was terrible for glass and as many of you have seen from the biodome teasers, there is a fair amount of it. The posts about old AV being OP are laughable. Old AV didn't give you any more of an advantage than the standard AV in this build.
With that being said, I agree with the masses that the new AV is next to useless. I can live with the 252 default AV since it still does outline marines, mines and structures so no complaints there. The only time I would turn on the new AV is right after a room loses power. Otherwise, I will stick to standard vision.
This is a good balancing step in my opinion and makes it work more like a flashlight. AV was too powerful in my opinion. Even with a flashlight. It was hard to spot aliens in a dark room and marines didn't get to blind aliens like taking out a power node does for marines. Now aliens get to plunge marines into darkness and marines get to flashlight aliens to the face.
All of these idiots complaining about Alien Vision "ruining the art direction of the game" and "missing out on the detail in the maps" are completely copping out. They act like you never, ever get a look at the natural view of the map playing as a Marine. It's the stupidest argument against Alien Vision that you can imagine. We can't appreciate the map when we use a vision of the world as another lifeform sees it, because apparently you buffoons never play as the whole other team that can!
Comments
Guess what happens then? Game looks great, no one moans about it because it doesn't exist.
Either that, or have the alien flashlight create a bat like 'pulse' when deployed. So you see an outline of the dark room you are in that slowly fades back to the normal vision with outlines. The downside being marines can hear the pulse in the game, the upside being you can see the room layout for 5 - 10 seconds or whatever.
What the fuck am I reading, NS1 didn't have any dark rooms...wat...maybe if you had the 9L hacks pack with gammaramp 5, gamma 10.0 and Powerstrip running in the background yeah it wasn't technically a dark game...
Does anyone else have a thin yellow border around their screen with alien vision on?
Why not just make it automatic, though? Aliens are animals, their retinas should simply be adaptive. Monochrome night vision should be activated automatically in the darkness, and fade to "normal" vision as our "eyes" get accustomed to the light. It would also be possible to blind the aliens in the brief moment the power comes on ;>
1) It's designed for dark rooms, despite them rarely ever becoming a tactical considerations for Aliens. Seriously there's like 10 seconds after killing a power node, but the power nodes are so resilient and repaired for free so it's rarely ever worth your time taking them out. Then afterwards the tactical advantage is lost. A whole vision mode for a redundant scenario.
2) It destroys the artistic immersion of playing Aliens. Now I play a slightly-better sighted human. It's just the killing of an artistic vision really - I knew I was an ailen, it felt like I was seeing the world through an alien's eyes. Now it looks like some cheap computer-vision - I half expect a target reticle to lock on my enemies...
Agree 1000% Great post.
Even if you treat the new alien vision as night vision there isn't enough "night time" for it to be useful. I'm only ever in 100% pitch black for a few seconds a game tops and if you get any where near the edge of the dark room you are completely blinded again.
With previous updates there was always mixed opinions about what had been developed.........been many years since all I have heard is a stream of negative comments........not a single one saying an improvement.
So.......is this a game for the community...or whoever made the decisions to release this latest update.
We shall see.............not withstanding the 6 hours it took me to get it running after the update installed.......this one isn't getting my vote.
Where there so many complains about the "old vision"?
Is a little optical advantage when you have no distance weapon like marines to much overpowered?
Because the game looks nicer without "old vision"? (what a reason)
Or did it make a huge change in balance to change the vision?
(and if, then why it was not possible to add a "time limit" for the old alien vision?)
... Seriously, what is the reason behind that change?
For me this is a senseless change.
Why change that long "established feature"?
Was that really a thing called "problem"?
Please... Never change a running system.
My understanding it was related to glass being invisible in the previous alien vision and the new map biodome.
1) The normal vision highlighting is a step in the right direction. Instead of orange and red, the color palette should be changed to more of a thermal heat vision.
2) I agree in premise to a 'night vision' only alien vision, but current powernode mechanics don't make it as neccessary. If the rooms stayed dark until marines came in and repaired the node to say, 25%, then it would absolutely be more useful in these situations.
3) You should try to make it similar to what the predator movie used:
That implementation would be far easier on the eyes and enjoyable. If the alien vision looked similar to that, then the flashlight would turn the darkness and walls a shade of blue, which would be almost pleasant over the current orangish red hue. I understand the aliens eyes glow orange, but its a minor thing ^^ It's possible to do away with alien flashlight entirely, and just have it do this automatically when it dark areas.
The base problem IMO is the color palette itself.
Okay...
I don't know how many extreme glass structures / complex glass geometry biodome will have,
but I have to say that other maps had also glass walls / structures
(terminal in docking, operations in mineshaft, some places in descent)
and this was NEVER a problem before...
How does UWE decide that this is NOW a problem?
Still cant understand that change.
I agree on that, i liked that it was different. Even if they nerf the alien vision then atleast change the default so it doen't look like i got marine eyes adopted as a alien.
Also i don't know why but i can't kill anything as an alien anymore. I miss almost every attack.
The vision mod (link in other posts) was ok with just something more. Like the difference between marines (living/warm) and Structures (static but still warmer than a wall). Orange and Blue/green for example.
The reason why still eluding me on:
-Nerf it a little the original (distance)? Why not ? if you can see all the walls like the mod.
-Glass excuse is just plain bad why does it come in ? Ridiculous.
-This was the only asset that compensate the base speed issue. how it is balanced now ?
-No total darkness or long (power node down) enough to make it useful, why using it ?
On the other hand i can't see :
*why marines are still able to jump in all direction like beans while they shoot at a skulk ? When you run you can't shoot. there is a delay. but jumping, nope.
*why the maps fixed ? Some maps haven't been fixed (or fixed the wrong way) on many things like Elevator. You think you can hide there... nope nerf has been done so it looks like you are in a state of levitation (Tram/Elevator on top of tech point). What you see should be what you get.
*if key bindings are better ? o' come on !!!
*why we don't have more options to vote, and call admin, record, etc...
This is really not solving the main issues, we didn't need balance and cosmetics changes right now (with a new map). We needed all these little things that just make it better hugely.
I'm for removing the teeth on skulk since day one. Some agree, some don't as it would be removing what is part of NS identity. I'm afraid this thing IS !
Instead I propose that infestation completely kill all lighting in a room and have structures provide very low ambient lighting that doesn't interfere with the new AV. This way aliens can switch between the two in areas they control to defend/ambush depending on if they need a better view on the room layout or not.
The old AV really did ruin any artistic vision as it was pointless and stupid to not have it on. The flip side now is that having AV on should be an alternate form of art and in it's current form it too will go unappreciated and unused.
Bottom line UWE, you took too many steps in the right direction. Find a way to fix AV to make it's use plausible because even in "dark" rooms I can't justify using it.
With that being said, I agree with the masses that the new AV is next to useless. I can live with the 252 default AV since it still does outline marines, mines and structures so no complaints there. The only time I would turn on the new AV is right after a room loses power. Otherwise, I will stick to standard vision.
Not sure if serious...
(But this is Mendasp. Probably not.