nothing more satisfying than seeing a fade hassle some teammates, position yourself between them and the nearest hive in a little cubby hole and then jumping out to give mr Fade a surprise shotgun to the face 60% of the time, it work EVERY time
THE FADE IS THE ONLY UNIT IN THE GAME I SEE DOING THIS
Onos cant, dual cannon exo's cant, only fades can get this KDR because they cannot die
Its dumb for a unit to have so much HP, agility, and damage.
Think of any RPG with the rank, healers, dps, etc - the fade is the epitome of everything. It has no weakness. Really, zero weakness.
The ono is large and slower, skulks have less HP, etc. Everything else in the game is somewhat balanced. Even exos, which are amazing, dont come in until late game and can still get gang raped by skulks. A fade? NOPE - fly everything isntantly with 400 (exo) level HP. THe only thing it cant do is kill you at range... but it can close that range in half a second, so that doesnt count!
Fade is simply too good for a unit.
I've gone 116:4 with an Onos. I've joined games and gone 40:0 with an Onos. In those games I probably targeted extractors quite often and escaped death as a skulk, before going Onos and racking up huge numbers of kills until we had enough guys to take the final base.
THE FADE IS THE ONLY UNIT IN THE GAME I SEE DOING THIS
Onos cant, dual cannon exo's cant, only fades can get this KDR because they cannot die
Its dumb for a unit to have so much HP, agility, and damage.
Think of any RPG with the rank, healers, dps, etc - the fade is the epitome of everything. It has no weakness. Really, zero weakness.
The ono is large and slower, skulks have less HP, etc. Everything else in the game is somewhat balanced. Even exos, which are amazing, dont come in until late game and can still get gang raped by skulks. A fade? NOPE - fly everything isntantly with 400 (exo) level HP. THe only thing it cant do is kill you at range... but it can close that range in half a second, so that doesnt count!
Fade is simply too good for a unit.
I've gone 116:4 with an Onos. I've joined games and gone 40:0 with an Onos. In those games I probably targeted extractors quite often and escaped death as a skulk, before going Onos and racking up huge numbers of kills until we had enough guys to take the final base.
Ive seen that too, but only when aliens are winning (meaning no dual exos) and when the Onos has 3 or so gorges supporting it. Also, it has to play defensively. Alien units end game all move substantially faster, so an Onos with support can run away with impunity, but it has to pick its battle. Usually that comes from the 1-2 shotting the marines up front.
Contrast that with a fade, the fade can do it with zero support and has to play far less defensively because at any moment it can instantly fly/teleport to safety in less than a second.
Fade is the only class that by itself can pull 50-1 ratios against good players.
An Onos or other units can do that with support, or against bad players.
Fades can run into a group of 5+ marines, swipe swipe, and if it doesnt die, simply teleport out and in that .5 seconds, it will easily have plenty of health and 1.5 seconds later be a mile away.
Heck they can teleport up in the sky even. Its the most spoonfed class in the game once you get a hold of its movement mechanics.
Aliens have teams too... your arguments that 8 marines can counter a fade is a stupid argument when its possible to have 8 fades.
Before you go crying its stacked teams, etc, I see fades going 40+:1 rations A LOT. I can have really good marines on my team, shotguns, etc, and fades easily teleport in, rape some guy in 2 near instant swings, and teleport out. Meanwhile he can get lit up like a Christmas tree and take multiple shotgun hits from a squad of 4-5 marines and have no problem surviving.
The speed, insane amount of health, and very high damage makes a fade 100x more scary than an Ono. Ono's are scary, but at least they cant teleport to your face and nearly one shot you and fly away unscathed. An Ono will actually take damage and cant take on 5-8 people like a single fade can.
Im seeing end-game aliens usually just going all fades and skipping Onos. A mere 3-4 fades can decimate 12 players with ease in every single game I have seen reach that point. The fade needs a serious HP reduction if it is going to remain such a fast unit. A unit cannot have both near instant kills, tank-role HP/armor, and scount/instant extreme speed. The combination makes the unit far too good in the hands of anyone that knows how to use WASD + mouse buttons...
EDIT: I like how the people that disagree basically confirm exactly what I am saying. "Oh, wahh, you just need 4-5 coordinated marines to try and defend against them"
You realize thats around half your team for a single enemy unit right? You realize that if he plays cautious, even 4-5 marines wont stand a shot at killing him right? You realize that mid game + they can end up with 4-5 fades right? So what do you do against 2 onos, 6 fades, and the rest gorgers? Nothing, you just die. You need to base rush them and hope they don't rape your asshole before you kill the hive.
90% of the disagreement posts here are players biased towards alien or their own fade play, as their suggestions on how to counter this "balanced" unit basically sum up that a fade can be countered by your entire team... dont find the fact that each fade also has a team with an equal number of players.
The fade concept is great. Even make it have easier kills... but it doesnt need 400+ hp and instant teleporting speed. Is it really that hard to make an assassin type unit that also isnt a tank that can never die unless played by a first timer?
What are you talking about? Fades are EXTREMELY SLOW. They can only go fast in blink (shadowstep doesnt speed you up anymore), and now that blink is gotten before shadowstep, marines dont have the equipment/upgrades they would of had if blink had to be researched. Also, the update buffed their hp, which I thought was bad since fades are not supposed to tank
250 totally messed up fades (with bad buffs and bad nerfs) as fades are supposed to AVOID/EVADE damage, not tank it (so before 250 shooting a fade with your teammates and some shotguns with good shots would kill the fade easily, as fades instead had a limited time window to kill your teammates)
Ive seen that too, but only when aliens are winning (meaning no dual exos) and when the Onos has 3 or so gorges supporting it. Also, it has to play defensively. Alien units end game all move substantially faster, so an Onos with support can run away with impunity, but it has to pick its battle. Usually that comes from the 1-2 shotting the marines up front.
Contrast that with a fade, the fade can do it with zero support and has to play far less defensively because at any moment it can instantly fly/teleport to safety in less than a second.
Fade isn't op. What's OP is players with 500, 1000, 2000 hrs playing against the 60% of people that have sub 20 hrs experience due to the recent steam sales. I am taking a guess but I suspect you are in the sub 20 category due to your join date and the recent sale. Using KDR values for pub play right now is a terrible way to determine if something is OP or not.
What are you talking about? Fades are EXTREMELY SLOW. They can only go fast in blink (shadowstep doesnt speed you up anymore), and now that blink is gotten before shadowstep, marines dont have the equipment/upgrades they would of had if blink had to be researched. Also, the update buffed their hp, which I thought was bad since fades are not supposed to tank
250 broken blah blah
Bro... Do you even fade?
Fades are a lot of things but slow is not one of them.
Before you go crying its stacked teams, etc, I see fades going 40+:1 rations A LOT. I can have really good marines on my team, shotguns, etc, and fades easily teleport in, rape some guy in 2 near instant swings, and teleport out. Meanwhile he can get lit up like a Christmas tree and take multiple shotgun hits from a squad of 4-5 marines and have no problem surviving.
The speed, insane amount of health, and very high damage makes a fade 100x more scary than an Ono. Ono's are scary, but at least they cant teleport to your face and nearly one shot you and fly away unscathed. An Ono will actually take damage and cant take on 5-8 people like a single fade can.
Im seeing end-game aliens usually just going all fades and skipping Onos. A mere 3-4 fades can decimate 12 players with ease in every single game I have seen reach that point. The fade needs a serious HP reduction if it is going to remain such a fast unit. A unit cannot have both near instant kills, tank-role HP/armor, and scount/instant extreme speed. The combination makes the unit far too good in the hands of anyone that knows how to use WASD + mouse buttons...
EDIT: I like how the people that disagree basically confirm exactly what I am saying. "Oh, wahh, you just need 4-5 coordinated marines to try and defend against them"
You realize thats around half your team for a single enemy unit right? You realize that if he plays cautious, even 4-5 marines wont stand a shot at killing him right? You realize that mid game + they can end up with 4-5 fades right? So what do you do against 2 onos, 6 fades, and the rest gorgers? Nothing, you just die. You need to base rush them and hope they don't rape your asshole before you kill the hive.
90% of the disagreement posts here are players biased towards alien or their own fade play, as their suggestions on how to counter this "balanced" unit basically sum up that a fade can be countered by your entire team... dont find the fact that each fade also has a team with an equal number of players.
The fade concept is great. Even make it have easier kills... but it doesnt need 400+ hp and instant teleporting speed. Is it really that hard to make an assassin type unit that also isnt a tank that can never die unless played by a first timer?
What are you talking about? Fades are EXTREMELY SLOW. They can only go fast in blink (shadowstep doesnt speed you up anymore), and now that blink is gotten before shadowstep, marines dont have the equipment/upgrades they would of had if blink had to be researched. Also, the update buffed their hp, which I thought was bad since fades are not supposed to tank
250 totally messed up fades (with bad buffs and bad nerfs) as fades are supposed to AVOID/EVADE damage, not tank it (so before 250 shooting a fade with your teammates and some shotguns with good shots would kill the fade easily, as fades instead had a limited time window to kill your teammates)
I think the problems are that skulks don't scale well enough into the mid-late game so that you NEED fades to be killing 2-2 marines.
When the fades start dying, the marines can push on easily.
As such, the fade needs to be somewhat OP at killing marines to compensate.
This gets boring and frustrating when 2 marines are pressuring something and 4 fades come in, 1 swipe each and leave. Sure you might have hit one or two fades full on, but the chances of the other guy hitting the same fade with the same magnitude of damage is slim.
Or perhaps you send 3 marines to pressure something, and the 4 fades just go around and kill the phase gate, and then attempt to defend.
Now, these scenarios I'm depicting are based around 6v6 play, and I'm well aware that 1 fade on it's own is very hard to play. But when you're up against 4-5 fades who are attached to each other by a piece of string, it becomes impossible to progress the game unless you start picking them off. But even then, you might face 3-4 fades and 2 res biters so you split up your marines to recap and fewer marines to combat the 3-4 fades.
Kill all the fades though, and your marines will start tearing apart the skulks with 1-2 or 2-2.
I think the game has too much of a pivot point based on the fades.
Skulks can struggle (not always) to play against 1-1, 1-2, 2-2 marines. AND THIS IS THE REASON WE SEE PEOPLE GO FADE.
Fades come out, marines are pushed back.
If fades die, the game essentially resets back to fighting skulks, but this time, the skulks are facing upgraded marines and it can be so difficult to do anything about it.
If fades don't die, aliens will most likely win.
My suggestion to fix this problem:
Make skulks benefit more from biomass (and maybe some more ways of scaling them better for late game.) Maybe add more biomass per hive and reduce the cost of it but spread out the evolutions.
Make fades' health pool lower. (Makes them easier to pick off, but with better scaling skulks, it might not matter so much, also might make a skulk go lerk for umbra)
Make fades' structure damage even lower (Might commit some players to skulks to res bite instead of a 4 fade group tearing apart structures.)
Make onos more viable again so players save for it. (If we have 1 going for umbra lerk, 1 for onos, then we'll see 3 fades)
Heck, maybe make lerks stronger to begin with and scale dramatically slowly as the game progresses so they are only umbra machines
This game is too pivital around fades. I hope my ideas will make it so that teams aren't forced into all going fade. They choose to go lerk because of lower fade hp, they choose to go onos because it's really strong, they can't afford to all go fade and stop res biting with lower sdmg, and if you lose your higher lifeforms, the game doesn't just turn into a land slide.
Or introduce a new lifeform with another support role and reduce fade damage slightly.
Or introduce a support role feature for fades and reduce their damage capabilities even more. (vortex too OP with current damage output and researched too late in games because of biomass requirements)
Switch shadow step and blink back around, suddenly the "fadesplosion" as some people call it is gone/delayed until marines have proper upgrades. Basically hardly anyone would use fade without blink. If they can't kill the bastard at that point, well that's their fault ain't it? Simple resolution, there's no need to start messing with damage and speed values.
Also the "pogo/bunny hop" trick I've been seeing fades use more and more commonly recently doesn't require usage of energy (by that I mean it regenerates faster than used), allowing fades to burn it up at their destination and escape most of the time taking minimal damage, shotguns aren't very effective if the fade is already on the other side of the room.
Comments
Legs are overrated.
EDIT: Also, dat fail white strip.
This just blew my mind.
I smell a modjam
DAMMIT!
I've gone 116:4 with an Onos. I've joined games and gone 40:0 with an Onos. In those games I probably targeted extractors quite often and escaped death as a skulk, before going Onos and racking up huge numbers of kills until we had enough guys to take the final base.
Ive seen that too, but only when aliens are winning (meaning no dual exos) and when the Onos has 3 or so gorges supporting it. Also, it has to play defensively. Alien units end game all move substantially faster, so an Onos with support can run away with impunity, but it has to pick its battle. Usually that comes from the 1-2 shotting the marines up front.
Contrast that with a fade, the fade can do it with zero support and has to play far less defensively because at any moment it can instantly fly/teleport to safety in less than a second.
An Onos or other units can do that with support, or against bad players.
Fades can run into a group of 5+ marines, swipe swipe, and if it doesnt die, simply teleport out and in that .5 seconds, it will easily have plenty of health and 1.5 seconds later be a mile away.
Heck they can teleport up in the sky even. Its the most spoonfed class in the game once you get a hold of its movement mechanics.
Aliens have teams too... your arguments that 8 marines can counter a fade is a stupid argument when its possible to have 8 fades.
What are you talking about? Fades are EXTREMELY SLOW. They can only go fast in blink (shadowstep doesnt speed you up anymore), and now that blink is gotten before shadowstep, marines dont have the equipment/upgrades they would of had if blink had to be researched. Also, the update buffed their hp, which I thought was bad since fades are not supposed to tank
250 totally messed up fades (with bad buffs and bad nerfs) as fades are supposed to AVOID/EVADE damage, not tank it (so before 250 shooting a fade with your teammates and some shotguns with good shots would kill the fade easily, as fades instead had a limited time window to kill your teammates)
Fade isn't op. What's OP is players with 500, 1000, 2000 hrs playing against the 60% of people that have sub 20 hrs experience due to the recent steam sales. I am taking a guess but I suspect you are in the sub 20 category due to your join date and the recent sale. Using KDR values for pub play right now is a terrible way to determine if something is OP or not.
Please see this post - http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2133685/#Comment_2133685
Bro... Do you even fade?
Fades are a lot of things but slow is not one of them.
Not sure if serious.....
Kind of hard to kill the marine in the 4 seconds that vortex lasts. In truth, all vortex does on an Exo is give him time for his guns to cool down.
When the fades start dying, the marines can push on easily.
As such, the fade needs to be somewhat OP at killing marines to compensate.
This gets boring and frustrating when 2 marines are pressuring something and 4 fades come in, 1 swipe each and leave. Sure you might have hit one or two fades full on, but the chances of the other guy hitting the same fade with the same magnitude of damage is slim.
Or perhaps you send 3 marines to pressure something, and the 4 fades just go around and kill the phase gate, and then attempt to defend.
Now, these scenarios I'm depicting are based around 6v6 play, and I'm well aware that 1 fade on it's own is very hard to play. But when you're up against 4-5 fades who are attached to each other by a piece of string, it becomes impossible to progress the game unless you start picking them off. But even then, you might face 3-4 fades and 2 res biters so you split up your marines to recap and fewer marines to combat the 3-4 fades.
Kill all the fades though, and your marines will start tearing apart the skulks with 1-2 or 2-2.
I think the game has too much of a pivot point based on the fades.
Skulks can struggle (not always) to play against 1-1, 1-2, 2-2 marines. AND THIS IS THE REASON WE SEE PEOPLE GO FADE.
Fades come out, marines are pushed back.
If fades die, the game essentially resets back to fighting skulks, but this time, the skulks are facing upgraded marines and it can be so difficult to do anything about it.
If fades don't die, aliens will most likely win.
My suggestion to fix this problem:
Make skulks benefit more from biomass (and maybe some more ways of scaling them better for late game.) Maybe add more biomass per hive and reduce the cost of it but spread out the evolutions.
Make fades' health pool lower. (Makes them easier to pick off, but with better scaling skulks, it might not matter so much, also might make a skulk go lerk for umbra)
Make fades' structure damage even lower (Might commit some players to skulks to res bite instead of a 4 fade group tearing apart structures.)
Make onos more viable again so players save for it. (If we have 1 going for umbra lerk, 1 for onos, then we'll see 3 fades)
Heck, maybe make lerks stronger to begin with and scale dramatically slowly as the game progresses so they are only umbra machines
This game is too pivital around fades. I hope my ideas will make it so that teams aren't forced into all going fade. They choose to go lerk because of lower fade hp, they choose to go onos because it's really strong, they can't afford to all go fade and stop res biting with lower sdmg, and if you lose your higher lifeforms, the game doesn't just turn into a land slide.
Or introduce a new lifeform with another support role and reduce fade damage slightly.
Or introduce a support role feature for fades and reduce their damage capabilities even more. (vortex too OP with current damage output and researched too late in games because of biomass requirements)
And then said rage turns against you :P
Also the "pogo/bunny hop" trick I've been seeing fades use more and more commonly recently doesn't require usage of energy (by that I mean it regenerates faster than used), allowing fades to burn it up at their destination and escape most of the time taking minimal damage, shotguns aren't very effective if the fade is already on the other side of the room.