Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
I dunno, it seems awfully slow to buy stuff... In the heat of battle is it fast enough to be able to buy stuff, or is it going to make you wait for your stuff while it does the fancy animation...
The way I understand it is that by traveling with their squads, going to waypoints, buildings things, and killing Kharaa lifeforms and structures, the Fronteersman earns <b>points</b> which <b>qualify</b> him or her to order extra equipment. And that this equipment costs res.
Thus only two kinds of players can have extra equipment; the ones who use teamwork and follow orders, and the ones who make useful contributions.
<!--quoteo(post=1722642:date=Aug 13 2009, 05:08 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Aug 13 2009, 05:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722642"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dunno, it seems awfully slow to buy stuff... In the heat of battle is it fast enough to be able to buy stuff, or is it going to make you wait for your stuff while it does the fancy animation...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was very important to us to make sure the player doesn't have to wait around due to any visual aspect of the armory. The animation of the arms folding out will start as soon as a player is facing the armory and approaching it, and as soon as they hit the use key they can access the buy menu, even if the animation is finishing up. Then as soon as they have purchased their weapon, there will be some particle effects, and the weapon will instantly appear in their hands (with full ammo), even if the animation on the armory is still playing the scan/print animation.
<!--quoteo(post=1722643:date=Aug 13 2009, 06:10 PM:name=Valcien)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Valcien @ Aug 13 2009, 06:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722643"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The way I understand it is that by traveling with their squads, going to waypoints, buildings things, and killing Kharaa lifeforms and structures, the Fronteersman earns <b>points</b> which <b>qualify</b> him or her to order extra equipment. And that this equipment costs res.
Thus only two kinds of players can have extra equipment; the ones who use teamwork and follow orders, and the ones who make useful contributions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If that would be true, the first thing every commander would do is assigning one million waypoints to you for running arround the comchair until you can purchase the weapons you want. Every comm who doesn't do that will be kicked immediatly.
Btw: the top of the armory looks like the perfect place to secure the base from
I had the same thought as JimyD - why NOT limit it to serving 4 marines at a time in the correct positions? Then if the comm wants to build another one to increase bandwidth, let him. IMO this would increase the strategic options available to the commander AND force consistency with a pre-existing asset.
As for the hologram, I like it in the context of the TSA being a bunch of untrained conscripts, which I'm not sure is true to the backstory. However, given pub play / internet tomfoolery I think positioning the TSA players as "fresh-off-world" civilians drafted because they didn't pay their parking tickets could work. Kind of a "benevolent Stalinist conscription" system like so:
RECRUITER: "Welcome to the TSA. Here's your armor. It clips on like this. Now here's your gun - point this end at anything ugly. Now stand up straight on this pad for transport. Keep your arms inside the particle grid or you WILL lose them. The rest will be explained once you re-materialize on-world. Good luck!"
INFANTRY PORTAL TRANSDUCER: >BBZZAAAP<
RECRUITER: "Next group step forward! Welcome to the TSA. Here's your armor..."
I actually like the idea of rines buying their own weapons... to a degree.
there have been way to many instances where the better players would be out doing all the work, earning all the res for the team and the commander drops the better weapons back at home for the armory humpers who don't want to leave the base.
this way everyone who is out working hard to kill aliens and secure nodes could come back to a reward they earned themselves.
<!--quoteo(post=1722651:date=Aug 13 2009, 09:44 AM:name=Hakujin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hakujin @ Aug 13 2009, 09:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722651"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I had the same thought as JimyD - why NOT limit it to serving 4 marines at a time in the correct positions? Then if the comm wants to build another one to increase bandwidth, let him. IMO this would increase the strategic options available to the commander AND force consistency with a pre-existing asset.
As for the hologram, I like it in the context of the TSA being a bunch of untrained conscripts, which I'm not sure is true to the backstory. However, given pub play / internet tomfoolery I think positioning the TSA players as "fresh-off-world" civilians drafted because they didn't pay their parking tickets could work. Kind of a "benevolent Stalinist conscription" system like so:
RECRUITER: "Welcome to the TSA. Here's your armor. It clips on like this. Now here's your gun - point this end at anything ugly. Now stand up straight on this pad for transport. Keep your arms inside the particle grid or you WILL lose them. The rest will be explained once you re-materialize on-world. Good luck!"
INFANTRY PORTAL TRANSDUCER: >BBZZAAAP<
RECRUITER: "Next group step forward! Welcome to the TSA. Here's your armor..."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly my thoughts. I hope every single part of the armory has very tight hitboxes. Otherwise the game is going to look very cheap when players walk through parts of a building.
So why not utilize then intended art asset the way it is represented?
Very cheap armories, actual immersive factor 100%.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1722645:date=Aug 13 2009, 07:16 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 13 2009, 07:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722645"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It was very important to us to make sure the player doesn't have to wait around due to any visual aspect of the armory. The animation of the arms folding out will start as soon as a player is facing the armory and approaching it, and as soon as they hit the use key they can access the buy menu, even if the animation is finishing up. Then as soon as they have purchased their weapon, there will be some particle effects, and the weapon will instantly appear in their hands (with full ammo), even if the animation on the armory is still playing the scan/print animation.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Good to hear, you guys had me worried for a moment :D
<!--quoteo(post=1722672:date=Aug 13 2009, 01:53 PM:name=Hakujin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hakujin @ Aug 13 2009, 01:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722672"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think this thread has revealed the NS1-centric viewpoint of most of the players. IT IS A NEW GAME WITH NEW RULES. OPEN YOUR MINDS!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea I think thats kinda true.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=18/07/09 9:08 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ 18/07/09 9:08 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Our biggest goal with NS2 is it improve NS1 as much as we can, while still keeping the "soul" of NS1. We have no interest in making NS2 play just like NS1 and I don't think most of our players do either! The rule of thumb for building a good sequel is 1/3 new, 1/3 improved and 1/3 the same.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <a href="http://www.nsplayer.net/" target="_blank">http://www.nsplayer.net/</a>
Very cool guys. Nice and crisp and cool. Keep cranking I wait with baited breath for the tools.
I see the animations and obvious gun logo as sign language for all the NEW players you want to sell to as well. It's like you have a sign that says. Hello NEWBS there is a thing with a gun logo over here.
NEWB1 walks over "hey a gun logo....cool the thing opens." "Oh wow there a gun shop" "Where" says NEWB2 "Guns...I need something to nail that little bity dog." says NEWB3
Just then an experienced Fade steps into the room and beheads all three. "Still humping the armory I see", he whispers and slips away.
So yes I welcome it and any other changes that bring fresh fodder to the mix.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1722679:date=Aug 13 2009, 03:45 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Aug 13 2009, 03:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722679"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->wasnt the female model one of the first things shown<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> IIRC they said they were redoing that model.
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
edited August 2009
Aww - it moves like WALL-E :S The armory looks very good. Put it together with the MASC and you begin to get a very nice impression of the marine side. The holographic feature is a nice trowback to the NS1 commander HUD.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Haven't read all posts, sorry. Why not make hologram toggable with cl_autohelp? I agree that a hologram looks silly. Armies aren't exactly using neon signs on todays battlefields for new recruits...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Starship trooper anyone?? As long as it makes sense in a cheese sci-fi way, it doesnt matter. The whole scanning/fangling arms of the armory, if it alludes to a process taken place though it's instant, it's wont raise a flag in your brain. It's abstract thinking.
Edit: I'd like to add that the graphical side is shaping up to be more than what a small company should be capable of. It will be a crying shame that you won't have the PR or word-of-mouth that it deserves, but I hope it gets what it deserves.
Will it be harder to destroy ? I mean bigger = stronger. Of course if there is a point in destroying it (upgrading).
if it is bigger maybe it's gonna be more difficult to drop one in the map (due to volume constraint). Holographic icon can be a problem (as said before) if you try to be discreet. How marins will adress these issues regarding tactics ?
Aesthetics apart, I'm rather concerned that little was said on testing the robustness their design concept against actual gameplay, even a short playtest.
For example, in NS1, marines were penalised by having to face the armoury when using it, exposing their backs to a sneak attack.
Does this penalty extend to NS2? Do the hitboxes of the extended arms make an ambush by skulks tougher?
In fact, for all that has been shown to us thus far, it seems as if the devs are coming up with spectacular designs with little explanation on their rationale behind it.
Which leads me to assume this: Should the devs continue designing "beautiful items" and leave playtesting to the alpha stage, they may end up having to amend many of their designs radically later on.
<!--quoteo(post=1722779:date=Aug 13 2009, 08:59 PM:name=imhotep79)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (imhotep79 @ Aug 13 2009, 08:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722779"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aesthetics apart, I'm rather concerned that little was said on testing the robustness their design concept against actual gameplay, even a short playtest.
For example, in NS1, marines were penalised by having to face the armoury when using it, exposing their backs to a sneak attack.
Does this penalty extend to NS2? Do the hitboxes of the extended arms make an ambush by skulks tougher?
In fact, for all that has been shown to us thus far, it seems as if the devs are coming up with spectacular designs with little explanation on their rationale behind it.
Which leads me to assume this: Should the devs continue designing "beautiful items" and leave playtesting to the alpha stage, they may end up having to amend many of their designs radically later on.
This sounds like alot of abortive work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> First, read the thread, your questions about the armory are pretty much already answered. Second, how much "explanation or rationale" do you get from other game developers pre-alpha? None? And how much do they end up having to amend their designs, etc?
Personally, I tend to think that we're getting anything is pretty damn cool. That they're actually asking for feedback from us is even cooler. However, to think that we, as players, should be placed at the same level as the game designers for the design of the final game is, in my opinion, arrogance. But then again, I'm very much in the "designers are artists" camp. I find myself often thinkin what would have happened had da Vinci had people like us around critiquing his every move.. "My god.. you can't make the painting that small.. and what's with that wierd smile, no.. this is definitely going to flop, Leo, unless you start listenint to us right away."
Am I the only one who thinks the staggered arms look a little weird? It seems like after the arms fold out, they should slide up/down to lock into pairs opposite each other. Probably too late to change, and it's not a big deal, but there's my two cents.
Still kinda worried about the CS-style weapon buy. One of the things I liked about Marines in NS1, and something that set them apart from the Kharaa, was the way the team's weapon loadout was coordinated by the Commander. You got the weapons your team could afford, and you usually had a balanced squad and the tools most fitting to your current strategic goal. Now I fear we may see more all-shotgun squads, or teams who can't afford the structures they need because everyone grabbed HMGs. Conversely, if weapons no longer take the team's resources, then there may be no reason not to always grab the biggest gun available. Or if each player has their own resource pool, then I think that would just lead to Rambo-ism or selfish actions to preserve one's resources over the needs of the team. NS1 Marines lived and died as a team, and I liked that. Maybe I'm just worrying over nothing, but I hope NS2 preserves the flavor of NS1 that made it great in the first place.
Anyway, keep up the good work. I'm looking forward to seeing how the game turns out.
Edit: <!--quoteo(post=1722791:date=Aug 13 2009, 10:22 PM:name=Kwil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kwil @ Aug 13 2009, 10:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722791"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Personally, I tend to think that we're getting anything is pretty damn cool. That they're actually asking for feedback from us is even cooler. However, to think that we, as players, should be placed at the same level as the game designers for the design of the final game is, in my opinion, arrogance. But then again, I'm very much in the "designers are artists" camp. I find myself often thinkin what would have happened had da Vinci had people like us around critiquing his every move.. "My god.. you can't make the painting that small.. and what's with that wierd smile, no.. this is definitely going to flop, Leo, unless you start listenint to us right away."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The thing is, Da Vinci wasn't trying to sell the Mona Lisa to a bunch of people. Games may at times be art, but they are also a business, and if you want people to buy something, you need to make something that people like. It isn't arrogance to say "If you don't make it like this, I won't buy it." No one is obligated to fund a game designer's art. And a game designer doesn't have to listen (which is good, because it's impossible to listen to everyone anyway), but if they don't then they risk having a very artistic game that no one will buy.
It's quite reassuring to know that in some future science fiction world overrun by extraterrestrial lifeforms, the economy will always continue to work...
Think of this: An outpost research base is being run over, but luckily a commander arrives and teleports in a full squad of marines. First announcement: "Sorry guys, but due to budgetary concerns we have exceeded our spending limit! To make a long story short: Teleportation ate the ress - no weapons today!"
Hahahahahahaha! Death by economic failure. What a nice twist of story. It so reminds me of <b>THX-1138</b>..
Seriously. How come that in all those post-apocalyptic games, the protagonist always adheres to a system which is barely existing anymore. For example: In Bioshock - all those vending machines! If I was living in a world full of zombies/aliens/psychos/splicers and ME being the only one unaffected by the disease/radioactivity/brain waves, the VERY FIRST THING I'd do would be to smash all vending machines that happen to cross my path! And only RAIDING SUPERMARKETS would be higher on my list of priorities..
The last thing I'd do is collecting money (how stupid is that in a society consisting of ONE PERSON?) just to play by the rules (which rules, anymore?) and insert those coins 1-by-1 into these f**king machines..
<!--quoteo(post=1722806:date=Aug 14 2009, 01:54 AM:name=Hamlet)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hamlet @ Aug 14 2009, 01:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722806"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's quite reassuring to know that in some future science fiction world overrun by extraterrestrial lifeforms, the economy will always continue to work...
Think of this: An outpost research base is being run over, but luckily a commander arrives and teleports in a full squad of marines. First announcement: "Sorry guys, but due to budgetary concerns we have exceeded our spending limit! To make a long story short: Teleportation ate the ress - no weapons today!"
Hahahahahahaha! Death by economic failure. What a nice twist of story. It so reminds me of <b>THX-1138</b>..
Seriously. How come that in all those post-apocalyptic games, the protagonist always adheres to a system which is barely existing anymore. For example: In Bioshock - all those vending machines! If I was living in a world full of zombies/aliens/psychos/splicers and ME being the only one unaffected by the disease/radioactivity/brain waves, the VERY FIRST THING I'd do would be breaking all vending machines and only RAIDING SUPERMARKETS would be even higher on my list of priorities.
The last thing I'd do is collecting money (how stupid is that in a society consisting of ONE PERSON?) just to insert those coins into these f**king machines!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In the NS universe, resources are nanites used to create the very equipment the TSA use or the building blocks for creation for the Kharaa.
Buying is the act of exchanging one good for another. In primitive societies you exchange one good for another. In more advanced societies this is done through an intermediary commonly called "money".
Now, how do you buy without money, considering that breaking down the machine (a 3D printer) would be counter-productive? (-> printer out of order)
<!--quoteo(post=1722808:date=Aug 14 2009, 02:01 AM:name=Hamlet)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hamlet @ Aug 14 2009, 02:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722808"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well. How do you understand the word "buy"?
Buying is the act of exchanging one good for another. In primitive societies you exchange one good for another. In more advanced societies this is done through an intermediary commonly called "money".
Now, how do you buy without money, considering that breaking down the machine (a 3D printer) would be counter-productive? (-> printer out of order)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...Huh? You are being way too literal.
The TSA don't operate with money. Buy is being as short-hand to say "use your allotted supply of raw nanites to manufacture a good" and without giving that exact information, players figure out that you get stuff from the armory. It would be more accurate to say "build" but that would create confusion among the player base about how they would get their equipment.
<!--quoteo(post=1722506:date=Aug 13 2009, 01:59 AM:name=Stinky)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stinky @ Aug 13 2009, 01:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722506"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... You know what I'd like to see some concept art for?
Nanites.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here -> .
:P
<!--quoteo(post=1722487:date=Aug 13 2009, 12:27 AM:name=Sirot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sirot @ Aug 13 2009, 12:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722487"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think a immersive way of dealing with the four-door issue is in this manner:
1. Marines near an armory get a prompt to open buy the purchasing interface. 2. Once purchase is decided, the marine goes to the armory to collect the goods. If you didn't buy anything, you don't dock with the armory. 3. You can also dock if you need ammo or medical attention, both are rather fast to complete but leave your vulnerable for a short time. 4. An armory can only handle four marines at a time.
EDIT: It does complicate things a little.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1722529:date=Aug 13 2009, 02:58 AM:name=Delphic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Delphic @ Aug 13 2009, 02:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722529"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gimme a hug armory!
(+1 for that selecting what you want to buy before you go to the armoury and just using it to get what you want. Whilst from an immersion point of view I'd rather have to be at the terminal - "feels like shopping!" - it's a multi player game and a couple of months in all feeling of actually being a marine will be gone and then it'll just be what's most convenient++)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> +1 to these. And I would add:
* Marines should be able to log in at any moment to an inventory selection screen (including during respawn!) * Upon hitting "use" at the Armory the Marine would dock and the res for weapons exchange happens instantly. * If ammo weights you down then in the inventory screen you should be able to selected how much ammo you want to get when docking.
I also don't like the image of 5 or 7 marines humping the armory while the arm animations play and massive clipping of the players and the arms happens.
That should be fixed... but AFTER alpha is released :)
Comments
Thus only two kinds of players can have extra equipment; the ones who use teamwork and follow orders, and the ones who make useful contributions.
It was very important to us to make sure the player doesn't have to wait around due to any visual aspect of the armory. The animation of the arms folding out will start as soon as a player is facing the armory and approaching it, and as soon as they hit the use key they can access the buy menu, even if the animation is finishing up. Then as soon as they have purchased their weapon, there will be some particle effects, and the weapon will instantly appear in their hands (with full ammo), even if the animation on the armory is still playing the scan/print animation.
--Cory
Thus only two kinds of players can have extra equipment; the ones who use teamwork and follow orders, and the ones who make useful contributions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If that would be true, the first thing every commander would do is assigning one million waypoints to you for running arround the comchair until you can purchase the weapons you want. Every comm who doesn't do that will be kicked immediatly.
Btw: the top of the armory looks like the perfect place to secure the base from
10/10
As for the hologram, I like it in the context of the TSA being a bunch of untrained conscripts, which I'm not sure is true to the backstory. However, given pub play / internet tomfoolery I think positioning the TSA players as "fresh-off-world" civilians drafted because they didn't pay their parking tickets could work. Kind of a "benevolent Stalinist conscription" system like so:
RECRUITER: "Welcome to the TSA. Here's your armor. It clips on like this. Now here's your gun - point this end at anything ugly. Now stand up straight on this pad for transport. Keep your arms inside the particle grid or you WILL lose them. The rest will be explained once you re-materialize on-world. Good luck!"
INFANTRY PORTAL TRANSDUCER: >BBZZAAAP<
RECRUITER: "Next group step forward! Welcome to the TSA. Here's your armor..."
there have been way to many instances where the better players would be out doing all the work, earning all the res for the team and the commander drops the better weapons back at home for the armory humpers who don't want to leave the base.
this way everyone who is out working hard to kill aliens and secure nodes could come back to a reward they earned themselves.
As for the hologram, I like it in the context of the TSA being a bunch of untrained conscripts, which I'm not sure is true to the backstory. However, given pub play / internet tomfoolery I think positioning the TSA players as "fresh-off-world" civilians drafted because they didn't pay their parking tickets could work. Kind of a "benevolent Stalinist conscription" system like so:
RECRUITER: "Welcome to the TSA. Here's your armor. It clips on like this. Now here's your gun - point this end at anything ugly. Now stand up straight on this pad for transport. Keep your arms inside the particle grid or you WILL lose them. The rest will be explained once you re-materialize on-world. Good luck!"
INFANTRY PORTAL TRANSDUCER: >BBZZAAAP<
RECRUITER: "Next group step forward! Welcome to the TSA. Here's your armor..."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly my thoughts. I hope every single part of the armory has very tight hitboxes. Otherwise the game is going to look very cheap when players walk through parts of a building.
So why not utilize then intended art asset the way it is represented?
Very cheap armories, actual immersive factor 100%.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good to hear, you guys had me worried for a moment :D
Yea I think thats kinda true.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=18/07/09 9:08 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ 18/07/09 9:08 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Our biggest goal with NS2 is it improve NS1 as much as we can, while still keeping the "soul" of NS1. We have no interest in making NS2 play just like NS1 and I don't think most of our players do either! The rule of thumb for building a good sequel is 1/3 new, 1/3 improved and 1/3 the same.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.nsplayer.net/" target="_blank">http://www.nsplayer.net/</a>
Nice and crisp and cool.
Keep cranking I wait with baited breath for the tools.
I see the animations and obvious gun logo as sign language for all the NEW players
you want to sell to as well.
It's like you have a sign that says.
Hello NEWBS there is a thing with a gun logo over here.
NEWB1 walks over "hey a gun logo....cool the thing opens."
"Oh wow there a gun shop"
"Where" says NEWB2
"Guns...I need something to nail that little bity dog." says NEWB3
Just then an experienced Fade steps into the room and beheads all three.
"Still humping the armory I see", he whispers and slips away.
So yes I welcome it and any other changes that bring fresh fodder to the mix.
humpability++
IIRC they said they were redoing that model.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Haven't read all posts, sorry. Why not make hologram toggable with cl_autohelp? I agree that a hologram looks silly. Armies aren't exactly using neon signs on todays battlefields for new recruits...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Starship trooper anyone?? As long as it makes sense in a cheese sci-fi way, it doesnt matter. The whole scanning/fangling arms of the armory, if it alludes to a process taken place though it's instant, it's wont raise a flag in your brain. It's abstract thinking.
Edit: I'd like to add that the graphical side is shaping up to be more than what a small company should be capable of. It will be a crying shame that you won't have the PR or word-of-mouth that it deserves, but I hope it gets what it deserves.
Will it be harder to destroy ? I mean bigger = stronger. Of course if there is a point in destroying it (upgrading).
if it is bigger maybe it's gonna be more difficult to drop one in the map (due to volume constraint). Holographic icon can be a problem (as said before) if you try to be discreet. How marins will adress these issues regarding tactics ?
Win.
And yeah, maybe like a fridge, but if my fridge gave me dinner, a beer and a shotgun = A W E S O M E
For example, in NS1, marines were penalised by having to face the armoury when using it, exposing their backs to a sneak attack.
Does this penalty extend to NS2? Do the hitboxes of the extended arms make an ambush by skulks tougher?
In fact, for all that has been shown to us thus far, it seems as if the devs are coming up with spectacular designs with little explanation on their rationale behind it.
Which leads me to assume this: Should the devs continue designing "beautiful items" and leave playtesting to the alpha stage, they may end up having to amend many of their designs radically later on.
This sounds like alot of abortive work.
For example, in NS1, marines were penalised by having to face the armoury when using it, exposing their backs to a sneak attack.
Does this penalty extend to NS2? Do the hitboxes of the extended arms make an ambush by skulks tougher?
In fact, for all that has been shown to us thus far, it seems as if the devs are coming up with spectacular designs with little explanation on their rationale behind it.
Which leads me to assume this: Should the devs continue designing "beautiful items" and leave playtesting to the alpha stage, they may end up having to amend many of their designs radically later on.
This sounds like alot of abortive work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, read the thread, your questions about the armory are pretty much already answered.
Second, how much "explanation or rationale" do you get from other game developers pre-alpha? None? And how much do they end up having to amend their designs, etc?
Personally, I tend to think that we're getting anything is pretty damn cool. That they're actually asking for feedback from us is even cooler. However, to think that we, as players, should be placed at the same level as the game designers for the design of the final game is, in my opinion, arrogance. But then again, I'm very much in the "designers are artists" camp. I find myself often thinkin what would have happened had da Vinci had people like us around critiquing his every move.. "My god.. you can't make the painting that small.. and what's with that wierd smile, no.. this is definitely going to flop, Leo, unless you start listenint to us right away."
Thank goodness he didn't have the internet.
Still kinda worried about the CS-style weapon buy. One of the things I liked about Marines in NS1, and something that set them apart from the Kharaa, was the way the team's weapon loadout was coordinated by the Commander. You got the weapons your team could afford, and you usually had a balanced squad and the tools most fitting to your current strategic goal. Now I fear we may see more all-shotgun squads, or teams who can't afford the structures they need because everyone grabbed HMGs. Conversely, if weapons no longer take the team's resources, then there may be no reason not to always grab the biggest gun available. Or if each player has their own resource pool, then I think that would just lead to Rambo-ism or selfish actions to preserve one's resources over the needs of the team. NS1 Marines lived and died as a team, and I liked that. Maybe I'm just worrying over nothing, but I hope NS2 preserves the flavor of NS1 that made it great in the first place.
Anyway, keep up the good work. I'm looking forward to seeing how the game turns out.
Edit: <!--quoteo(post=1722791:date=Aug 13 2009, 10:22 PM:name=Kwil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kwil @ Aug 13 2009, 10:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722791"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Personally, I tend to think that we're getting anything is pretty damn cool. That they're actually asking for feedback from us is even cooler. However, to think that we, as players, should be placed at the same level as the game designers for the design of the final game is, in my opinion, arrogance. But then again, I'm very much in the "designers are artists" camp. I find myself often thinkin what would have happened had da Vinci had people like us around critiquing his every move.. "My god.. you can't make the painting that small.. and what's with that wierd smile, no.. this is definitely going to flop, Leo, unless you start listenint to us right away."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The thing is, Da Vinci wasn't trying to sell the Mona Lisa to a bunch of people. Games may at times be art, but they are also a business, and if you want people to buy something, you need to make something that people like. It isn't arrogance to say "If you don't make it like this, I won't buy it." No one is obligated to fund a game designer's art. And a game designer doesn't have to listen (which is good, because it's impossible to listen to everyone anyway), but if they don't then they risk having a very artistic game that no one will buy.
Think of this:
An outpost research base is being run over, but luckily a commander arrives and teleports in a full squad of marines. First announcement:
"Sorry guys, but due to budgetary concerns we have exceeded our spending limit! To make a long story short: Teleportation ate the ress - no weapons today!"
Hahahahahahaha! Death by economic failure. What a nice twist of story. It so reminds me of <b>THX-1138</b>..
Seriously.
How come that in all those post-apocalyptic games, the protagonist always adheres to a system which is barely existing anymore.
For example: In Bioshock - all those vending machines! If I was living in a world full of zombies/aliens/psychos/splicers and ME being the only one unaffected by the disease/radioactivity/brain waves, the VERY FIRST THING I'd do would be to smash all vending machines that happen to cross my path!
And only RAIDING SUPERMARKETS would be higher on my list of priorities..
The last thing I'd do is collecting money (how stupid is that in a society consisting of ONE PERSON?) just to play by the rules (which rules, anymore?) and insert those coins 1-by-1 into these f**king machines..
Think of this:
An outpost research base is being run over, but luckily a commander arrives and teleports in a full squad of marines. First announcement:
"Sorry guys, but due to budgetary concerns we have exceeded our spending limit! To make a long story short: Teleportation ate the ress - no weapons today!"
Hahahahahahaha! Death by economic failure. What a nice twist of story. It so reminds me of <b>THX-1138</b>..
Seriously.
How come that in all those post-apocalyptic games, the protagonist always adheres to a system which is barely existing anymore.
For example: In Bioshock - all those vending machines! If I was living in a world full of zombies/aliens/psychos/splicers and ME being the only one unaffected by the disease/radioactivity/brain waves, the VERY FIRST THING I'd do would be breaking all vending machines and only RAIDING SUPERMARKETS would be even higher on my list of priorities.
The last thing I'd do is collecting money (how stupid is that in a society consisting of ONE PERSON?) just to insert those coins into these f**king machines!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In the NS universe, resources are nanites used to create the very equipment the TSA use or the building blocks for creation for the Kharaa.
Buying is the act of exchanging one good for another.
In primitive societies you exchange one good for another.
In more advanced societies this is done through an intermediary commonly called "money".
Now, how do you buy without money, considering that breaking down the machine (a 3D printer) would be counter-productive? (-> printer out of order)
Buying is the act of exchanging one good for another.
In primitive societies you exchange one good for another.
In more advanced societies this is done through an intermediary commonly called "money".
Now, how do you buy without money, considering that breaking down the machine (a 3D printer) would be counter-productive? (-> printer out of order)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...Huh? You are being way too literal.
The TSA don't operate with money. Buy is being as short-hand to say "use your allotted supply of raw nanites to manufacture a good" and without giving that exact information, players figure out that you get stuff from the armory. It would be more accurate to say "build" but that would create confusion among the player base about how they would get their equipment.
You guys keep 'em comin'.
You know what I'd like to see some concept art for?
Nanites.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here -> .
:P
<!--quoteo(post=1722487:date=Aug 13 2009, 12:27 AM:name=Sirot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sirot @ Aug 13 2009, 12:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722487"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think a immersive way of dealing with the four-door issue is in this manner:
1. Marines near an armory get a prompt to open buy the purchasing interface.
2. Once purchase is decided, the marine goes to the armory to collect the goods. If you didn't buy anything, you don't dock with the armory.
3. You can also dock if you need ammo or medical attention, both are rather fast to complete but leave your vulnerable for a short time.
4. An armory can only handle four marines at a time.
EDIT: It does complicate things a little.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1722529:date=Aug 13 2009, 02:58 AM:name=Delphic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Delphic @ Aug 13 2009, 02:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1722529"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gimme a hug armory!
(+1 for that selecting what you want to buy before you go to the armoury and just using it to get what you want. Whilst from an immersion point of view I'd rather have to be at the terminal - "feels like shopping!" - it's a multi player game and a couple of months in all feeling of actually being a marine will be gone and then it'll just be what's most convenient++)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1 to these. And I would add:
* Marines should be able to log in at any moment to an inventory selection screen (including during respawn!)
* Upon hitting "use" at the Armory the Marine would dock and the res for weapons exchange happens instantly.
* If ammo weights you down then in the inventory screen you should be able to selected how much ammo you want to get when docking.
I also don't like the image of 5 or 7 marines humping the armory while the arm animations play and massive clipping of the players and the arms happens.
That should be fixed... but AFTER alpha is released :)
EDIT: All Together now. Happy?... pointless