<!--quoteo(post=1723156:date=Aug 16 2009, 11:34 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 16 2009, 11:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1723156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok, as far as I know, the current plan for NS2 will mean that there <!--coloro:pink--><span style="color:pink"><!--/coloro-->isn't the same rush to the armory by the entire team, at the very start of the game.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please elaborate? That's pretty strange for saying the less. Seems like you have no clue of a standard rine NS start. Usually the rush is over the nodes around the map while 1 or 2 monkeys build the base. Maybe this is the kind of reasoning behind your amazing results.
<!--quoteo(post=1723191:date=Aug 16 2009, 07:52 PM:name=C4K3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (C4K3 @ Aug 16 2009, 07:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1723191"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please elaborate? That's pretty strange for saying the less. Seems like you have no clue of a standard rine NS start. Usually the rush is over the nodes around the map while 1 or 2 monkeys build the base. Maybe this is the kind of reasoning behind the trash. Heh. Funny.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What crawled up your tail pipe? You decided that NS2 was not the game for you and since then, all you did was complain and have temper tantrums. If you are upset that you preordered a game you don't want, talk to the devs about getting a refund and relax for god's sake.
I still have no idea what you want. Only thing you said concretely is that the community is bad here, but the people here are alright given how gaming communities for games tend to look. Give actual examples of what you want in the game instead of bashing everything.
DruBoBack In BeigeJoin Date: 2002-02-06Member: 172Members, NS1 Playtester
You know, if NS2 comes out and you hate it, there's nothing keeping you from playing the first one. It's not like we're going to take away your safety blanket once the new game is out.
I'm talking exclusively to the dev team not to you. Always add, never delete if it is not an error. Net code in NS is an error. Delete it. I want to see all the classes we got in NS <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green"><!--/coloro-->PLUS<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> the new amazing engine the new amazing graphics, the new class, the dinamic infestation and all you want. JUST don't delete something if it is not an error. Is not too much asking for isn't? Please don't tell me the formula 1/3 new 1/3 improved 1/3 the same, because this is not close to it at all. You are destroying the NS.
NS was the only game around the last FIVE years that worth my little sleep / free time at nights. Forget Dead Space, Fallout 3, etc. NS running over a bad engine 10 years old IS x1000 better. So, why are you doing this to that amazing game. Why. No parasite, no devour, no lerk bite, weird bhopping, leap to the start, Hellen Kellers buying weapons.... The entire new concept seems pretty weird, seriously. Just get back to the NS roots ffs. gad
<!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->Last warning. Keep the personal stuff out of here. Talk to a person directly if you have an issue. You <b>will</b> be banned if you do it again. Multiple warnings are more than enough<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> --Comprox
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm talking exclusively to the dev team not to you. Always add, never delete if it is not an error. Net code in NS is an error. Delete it. I want to see all the classes we got in NS PLUS the new amazing engine the new amazing graphics, the new class, the dinamic infestation and all you want. JUST don't delete something if it is not an error. Is not too much asking for isn't? Please don't tell me the formula 1/3 new 1/3 improved 1/3 the same, because this is not close to it at all. You are destroying the NS.
NS was the only game around the last FIVE years that worth my little sleep / free time at nights. Forget Dead Space, Fallout 3, etc. NS running over a bad engine 10 years old IS x1000 better. So, why are you doing this to that amazing game. Why. No parasite, no devour, no lerk bite, weird bhopping, leap to the start, Hellen Kellers buying weapons.... The entire new concept seems pretty weird, seriously. Just get back to the NS roots ffs. gad
<!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro--> You are welcome to PM a mod privately if you have issues with them. -aero <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1723226:date=Aug 17 2009, 12:03 AM:name=Sirot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sirot @ Aug 17 2009, 12:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1723226"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->EDIT: Oh hey, I hit 300 posts a while ago. I wish I can get my account merged with my old one : (<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1723156:date=Aug 17 2009, 03:34 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 17 2009, 03:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1723156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok, as far as I know, the current plan for NS2 will mean that there isn't the same rush to the armory by the entire team, at the very start of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Cool man, I should have assumed you guys had designed it with functionality in mind.
I was just thinking about the Pistol/Knife vs Taser idea. Something that can take out Kharaa structures, cool melee weapon and also offer some damage against life forms.
The Chainsaw.
Saw thru nodes and skulks alike.
2 Ways it could be implemented: 1) Uses fuel. But after it runs out you can still swing the 'saw around for some dmg (melee force + weight of weapon); Would sound sick when it makes contact with bio-structures/lifeforms. 2) Unlimited fuel. Swinging Action.
Or, some similar alternate plasma sword? Nano sword (ala Dues Ex).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, why are you doing this to that amazing game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You seem to be confusing ONE with TWO. This new game; it is NOT that old game.
It's like confusing Star Wars Episode One with Star Wars Episode Four. They are the first in their respective trilogies. But they are NOT the same.
This is not a PORT. It is not an EXACT COPY. It is not an EXACT COPY with improvements.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, why are you doing this to that amazing game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They aren't. THIS isn't THAT. It's just the same franchise. Besides, someone will very likely create a mod called Vanilla NS or Classic NS that will recreate THAT. And likely also CO.
<!--quoteo(post=1723191:date=Aug 17 2009, 01:52 AM:name=C4K3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (C4K3 @ Aug 17 2009, 01:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1723191"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please elaborate? That's pretty strange for saying the less. Seems like you have no clue of a standard rine NS start. Usually the rush is over the nodes around the map while 1 or 2 monkeys build the base. Maybe this is the kind of reasoning behind your amazing results.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The rush to hump the armory theoretically happens on your average pub - personally I've never seen more than one player (per round) hug it for any more than 1 clip before rushing out. I'm not too worried about there not being enough space around it.
<!--quoteo(post=1723217:date=Aug 17 2009, 01:07 PM:name=C4K3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (C4K3 @ Aug 17 2009, 01:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1723217"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if you don't want to hear anything but applause, don't ask for our opinion, that simple.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The design is clearly substandard and fails to fulfill its core needs defined by it's role within the game in a number of areas, it's sad that this design was called final without even considering all of its pitfalls and even sadder still that it was sent off and modeled!, which would have wasted so much money and production time that, if i had to bet, i would say we're stuck with this armory, aren't we. you've invested to much into it to trash it now but you still ask for criticism as if there's still a chance you could change it, but be honest, all hope of that was lost the minute you mailed it off. All you're doing here is asking for worship from all the fanboys wanting a Halo clone with lots of stupid floating holograms and icons while you try poorly to defend you "design decisions". Come on, you're meant to check these things out with the team or with us (the players) BEFORE you go ahead and set things in cement. Thoughts like "oh, players clipping those decorative arms made to give a clear impression that the armory is only usable by four people is going to look horrible!" might have popped up when it actually mattered, when what we thought could have made a difference!
I know that it's your game to develop and all that, i just want to see it made as best it can be. I take great inspiration from the development of ns2 into a commercial game, as an aspiring game developer myself, so i really want it to make it for your sake and for the sake of my future hope. :)
<!--quoteo(post=1723298:date=Aug 17 2009, 07:11 AM:name=Jackson3113)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jackson3113 @ Aug 17 2009, 07:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1723298"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All you're doing here is asking for worship from all the fanboys wanting a Halo clone with lots of stupid floating holograms and icons while you try poorly to defend you "design decisions". Come on, you're meant to check these things out with the team or with us (the players) BEFORE you go ahead and set things in cement. Thoughts like "oh, players clipping those decorative arms made to give a clear impression that the armory is only usable by four people is going to look horrible!" might have popped up when it actually mattered, when what we thought could have made a difference!
I know that it's your game to develop and all that, i just want to see it made as best it can be. I take great inspiration from the development of ns2 into a commercial game, as an aspiring game developer myself, so i really want it to make it for your sake and for the sake of my future hope. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Even if there's no rush to hump the armory, it would look odd if two marines approach the armory from the same angle (which they would certainly try to do, rather than take the time to run around to an open parking space)
I don't have a suggestion for how it should be designed atm...given the current model, I feel it should service 4 marines at a time, not any number.
I'll also add that it would be nice to see more than one of these pop up at larger bases (like multiple unit production buildings in most RTS games)
I think I've figured out what a lot of the comments are about.
There are elements in NS1 that we treasure and really don't want to see removed from the game, but the developers don't seem to know what these things are. The things that they're most proud of differ greatly because of perspective; but to be fair, what they like doesn't really matter as much for game success unless it means they're willing to work harder or additionally for it.
Players feel like they're being stripped of things rather than having their favorite game expounded upon, and I agree. This is a problem with almost all game series. The reason we buy a sequel is because we want to be re-immersed in the same game yet with even more... well... everything. If you're going to take things away, you need to replace them with things that make up the difference and more. TF2 got rid of grenades, but they increased weapon damage and removed the armor mechanic; they were successful in ending 'nade spam with very little complaint after users played about two hours. The complaints will be there, but you have to realize that we're worried because it looks like there will be a large number of edits because rendering is expensive rather than it being a brilliant idea that everyone loved.
It looks like you're changing the role of the armory and we need more information about that. There's also a new look to marine technology, we need to see a mock-up of a base to determine if it's a step forward. This building is very tall which offers more cover to larger aliens than last time, are we to believe that the marines wouldn't notice a veritable wall in their base? Is it meant to impede alien ranged attacks? Why is it so big? Some people liked to stand on top of the armory, is it taller to increase that tactical benefit or will this turn into an unforeseen issue?
You can't show us a picture and hope for us to fall in love with unspoken details. I personally think that the marines would figure out that having buildings in the way in their base is a terrible strategy for line-of-sight ranged weapons. Wouldn't they lean towards smaller foot print or lower-to-the-ground designs?
I feel this may be the new "build it to block the doorway" structure while a couple marines weld it.
On a side note, if we're going to have a tardis in the base, why can't we just go inside?
<!--quoteo(post=1723191:date=Aug 17 2009, 09:52 AM:name=C4K3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (C4K3 @ Aug 17 2009, 09:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1723191"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please elaborate? That's pretty strange for saying the less. Seems like you have no clue of a standard rine NS start. Usually the rush is over the nodes around the map while 1 or 2 monkeys build the base. Maybe this is the kind of reasoning behind your amazing results.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think it is you that has no idea about the standard rine NS2 start. emphasis on the <b><i>2</b></i>
<!--quoteo(post=1723332:date=Aug 17 2009, 09:56 PM:name=Kiopaen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kiopaen @ Aug 17 2009, 09:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1723332"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There are elements in NS1 that we treasure and really don't want to see removed from the game, but the developers don't seem to know what these things are.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. The problem is that everyone has a different opinion about what the "treasured" elements were in NS. When you say "we" you really can only speak for yourself, as I'm sure you will find that there are just as many fans of NS who think completely the opposite from you. The other aspect is that many of these original NS 1 elements only become "treasures" to people once we say that we are changing/removing them.
We, as the developers, have to trust in our own knowledge, experience, love for NS, and our gut instincts. We spend a lot of time weighing the costs vs. benefits of changing something that people are attached to. But if all we do is listen to everyone's opinions about what should and shouldn't change in NS2 we would either end up with the same exact game as NS1, or a terrible mish mash of a game that in the end makes no one happy.
<!--quoteo(post=1723359:date=Aug 18 2009, 11:37 AM:name=steppin'razor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (steppin'razor @ Aug 18 2009, 11:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1723359"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think it is you that has no idea about the standard rine NS2 start. emphasis on the <b><i>2</b></i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quoted for Truth! And to emphasise the point....
<!--quoteo(post=1723361:date=Aug 18 2009, 11:44 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 18 2009, 11:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1723361"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No. The problem is that everyone has a different opinion about what the "treasured" elements were in NS. When you say "we" you really can only speak for yourself, as I'm sure you will find that there are just as many fans of NS who think completely the opposite from you. The other aspect is that many of these original NS 1 elements only become "treasures" to people once we say that we are changing/removing them.
We, as the developers, have to trust in our own knowledge, experience, love for NS, and our gut instincts. We spend a lot of time weighing the costs vs. benefits of changing something that people are attached to. But if all we do is listen to everyone's opinions about what should and shouldn't change in NS2 we would either end up with the same exact game as NS1, or a terrible mish mash of a game that in the end makes no one happy.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What everyone else has been saying, but from a Dev's fingers instead!
<!--quoteo(post=1723361:date=Aug 17 2009, 09:44 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 17 2009, 09:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1723361"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No. The problem is that everyone has a different opinion about what the "treasured" elements were in NS. When you say "we" you really can only speak for yourself, as I'm sure you will find that there are just as many fans of NS who think completely the opposite from you. The other aspect is that many of these original NS 1 elements only become "treasures" to people once we say that we are changing/removing them.
We, as the developers, have to trust in our own knowledge, experience, love for NS, and our gut instincts. We spend a lot of time weighing the costs vs. benefits of changing something that people are attached to. But if all we do is listen to everyone's opinions about what should and shouldn't change in NS2 we would either end up with the same exact game as NS1, or a terrible mish mash of a game that in the end makes no one happy.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cory, you're right. Don't listen to the nay sayers. This is your guys' game, we just play it.
<!--quoteo(post=1723361:date=Aug 17 2009, 08:44 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 17 2009, 08:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1723361"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No. The problem is that everyone has a different opinion about what the "treasured" elements were in NS. When you say "we" you really can only speak for yourself, as I'm sure you will find that there are just as many fans of NS who think completely the opposite from you. The other aspect is that many of these original NS 1 elements only become "treasures" to people once we say that we are changing/removing them.
We, as the developers, have to trust in our own knowledge, experience, love for NS, and our gut instincts. We spend a lot of time weighing the costs vs. benefits of changing something that people are attached to. But if all we do is listen to everyone's opinions about what should and shouldn't change in NS2 we would either end up with the same exact game as NS1, or a terrible mish mash of a game that in the end makes no one happy.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You seem defensive and a bit arrogant so at least you're in like company. You're right, I didn't mean everyone when I said "we" and as a grammatical point: I don't have to. I was referring to the folks that have been posting in contrast to the pistol-knife-taser, skulk, and armory changes not "all" or "everyone." I'm not strictly for or against on any of them. I just try to throw out things to think about as a devil's advocate and in this case to try to consolidate some of the views I've been reading.
Let's face it, the pistol-knife-taser debate stepped on a lot of toes and they told you, the developers, about it per what you asked. If you're just looking for a bunch of cheerleaders, it would be a waste of time. The sentence you take issue with is one that cuts developers the most because it says that you don't have the same point of view as your audience. Do your drawings and projects look the same to you as to others? Of course not, it's part of the human condition. We grow attached to things we've made for sentimental reasons just like we get attached to ideas which happen to be our own.
You're correct about not listening to everyone's opinions but you've come a long way by at least asking for them. Be careful that you're not just looking for affirmation of your own beliefs and ideas, it's not healthy. Sometimes that type of mental hermitage leads to a Picasso or Van Gogh... but more often you'll get a person with thirty cats. It's a gamble and you have to pick an outcome, and no one likes to be second guessed even when they're not sure. Your "knowledge, experience, love for NS, and gut instinct" are formidable but so are your critics. You can't do what all of them ask, but at least you've heard them out.
I know you want kudos after all that work, and my apologies for leaving those out as "covered in the thread already." I love the style, animation, color choices, and friendliness of your design. I can tell a lot of work has gone into the modeling and I find it almost humorous in a dark way that it looks like it will hug the marine to help him relieve from the tension of almost being eaten.
So now that I've thoroughly upset you, Cory, I'd like you to get over the criticisms and appreciate that they've made you more conscious of the topic whether you agree with all the facets or not. It's natural to hate your critics, but lashing out at them is another thing entirely. If you want your work to appeal to a larger audience, learn to detach yourself from the criticisms but not your work.
<!--quoteo(post=1723381:date=Aug 17 2009, 11:40 PM:name=Kiopaen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kiopaen @ Aug 17 2009, 11:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1723381"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>You seem defensive and a bit arrogant so at least you're in like company.</b> You're right, I didn't mean everyone when I said "we" and as a grammatical point: I don't have to. I was referring to the folks that have been posting in contrast to the pistol-knife-taser, skulk, and armory changes not "all" or "everyone." I'm not strictly for or against on any of them. I just try to throw out things to think about as a devil's advocate and in this case to try to consolidate some of the views I've been reading.
Let's face it, the pistol-knife-taser debate stepped on a lot of toes and they told you, the developers, about it per what you asked. <b>If you're just looking for a bunch of cheerleaders, it would be a waste of time. The sentence you take issue with is one that cuts developers the most because it says that you don't have the same point of view as your audience. </b> Do your drawings and projects look the same to you as to others? Of course not, it's part of the human condition. We grow attached to things we've made for sentimental reasons just like we get attached to ideas which happen to be our own.
You're correct about not listening to everyone's opinions but you've come a long way by at least asking for them. Be careful that you're not just looking for affirmation of your own beliefs and ideas, it's not healthy. Sometimes that type of mental hermitage leads to a Picasso or Van Gogh... but more often you'll get a person with thirty cats. It's a gamble and you have to pick an outcome, and no one likes to be second guessed even when they're not sure. Your "knowledge, experience, love for NS, and gut instinct" are formidable but so are your critics. You can't do what all of them ask, but at least you've heard them out.
I know you want kudos after all that work, and my apologies for leaving those out as "covered in the thread already." I love the style, animation, color choices, and friendliness of your design. I can tell a lot of work has gone into the modeling and I find it almost humorous in a dark way that it looks like it will hug the marine to help him relieve from the tension of almost being eaten.
<b>So now that I've thoroughly upset you, Cory</b>, I'd like you to get over the criticisms and appreciate that they've made you more conscious of the topic whether you agree with all the facets or not. It's natural to hate your critics, but lashing out at them is another thing entirely. If you want your work to appeal to a larger audience, learn to detach yourself from the criticisms but not your work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are an unusually mean and pretentious person for saying those (bolded) things.
Comments
Please elaborate? That's pretty strange for saying the less. Seems like you have no clue of a standard rine NS start. Usually the rush is over the nodes around the map while 1 or 2 monkeys build the base. Maybe this is the kind of reasoning behind your amazing results.
What crawled up your tail pipe? You decided that NS2 was not the game for you and since then, all you did was complain and have temper tantrums. If you are upset that you preordered a game you don't want, talk to the devs about getting a refund and relax for god's sake.
be patience or just be silent
complain after you play the game please
I still have no idea what you want. Only thing you said concretely is that the community is bad here, but the people here are alright given how gaming communities for games tend to look. Give actual examples of what you want in the game instead of bashing everything.
EDIT: Clarified an ambiguity.
NS was the only game around the last FIVE years that worth my little sleep / free time at nights. Forget Dead Space, Fallout 3, etc. NS running over a bad engine 10 years old IS x1000 better. So, why are you doing this to that amazing game. Why. No parasite, no devour, no lerk bite, weird bhopping, leap to the start, Hellen Kellers buying weapons.... The entire new concept seems pretty weird, seriously. Just get back to the NS roots ffs. gad
<!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->Last warning. Keep the personal stuff out of here. Talk to a person directly if you have an issue. You <b>will</b> be banned if you do it again. Multiple warnings are more than enough<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> --Comprox
NS was the only game around the last FIVE years that worth my little sleep / free time at nights. Forget Dead Space, Fallout 3, etc. NS running over a bad engine 10 years old IS x1000 better. So, why are you doing this to that amazing game. Why. No parasite, no devour, no lerk bite, weird bhopping, leap to the start, Hellen Kellers buying weapons.... The entire new concept seems pretty weird, seriously. Just get back to the NS roots ffs. gad
<!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro--> You are welcome to PM a mod privately if you have issues with them. -aero <!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Old account is old.
Cool man, I should have assumed you guys had designed it with functionality in mind.
Something that can take out Kharaa structures, cool melee weapon and also offer some damage against life forms.
The Chainsaw.
Saw thru nodes and skulks alike.
2 Ways it could be implemented:
1) Uses fuel. But after it runs out you can still swing the 'saw around for some dmg (melee force + weight of weapon); Would sound sick when it makes contact with bio-structures/lifeforms.
2) Unlimited fuel. Swinging Action.
Or, some similar alternate plasma sword? Nano sword (ala Dues Ex).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, why are you doing this to that amazing game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You seem to be confusing ONE with TWO.
This new game; it is NOT that old game.
It's like confusing Star Wars Episode One with Star Wars Episode Four. They are the first in their respective trilogies. But they are NOT the same.
This is not a PORT. It is not an EXACT COPY. It is not an EXACT COPY with improvements.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, why are you doing this to that amazing game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They aren't. THIS isn't THAT. It's just the same franchise. Besides, someone will very likely create a mod called Vanilla NS or Classic NS that will recreate THAT. And likely also CO.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Chaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaange<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The rush to hump the armory theoretically happens on your average pub - personally I've never seen more than one player (per round) hug it for any more than 1 clip before rushing out.
I'm not too worried about there not being enough space around it.
The design is clearly substandard and fails to fulfill its core needs defined by it's role within the game in a number of areas, it's sad that this design was called final without even considering all of its pitfalls and even sadder still that it was sent off and modeled!, which would have wasted so much money and production time that, if i had to bet, i would say we're stuck with this armory, aren't we. you've invested to much into it to trash it now but you still ask for criticism as if there's still a chance you could change it, but be honest, all hope of that was lost the minute you mailed it off.
All you're doing here is asking for worship from all the fanboys wanting a Halo clone with lots of stupid floating holograms and icons while you try poorly to defend you "design decisions". Come on, you're meant to check these things out with the team or with us (the players) BEFORE you go ahead and set things in cement. Thoughts like "oh, players clipping those decorative arms made to give a clear impression that the armory is only usable by four people is going to look horrible!" might have popped up when it actually mattered, when what we thought could have made a difference!
I know that it's your game to develop and all that, i just want to see it made as best it can be. I take great inspiration from the development of ns2 into a commercial game, as an aspiring game developer myself, so i really want it to make it for your sake and for the sake of my future hope. :)
I know that it's your game to develop and all that, i just want to see it made as best it can be. I take great inspiration from the development of ns2 into a commercial game, as an aspiring game developer myself, so i really want it to make it for your sake and for the sake of my future hope. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
QFT
I don't have a suggestion for how it should be designed atm...given the current model, I feel it should service 4 marines at a time, not any number.
I'll also add that it would be nice to see more than one of these pop up at larger bases (like multiple unit production buildings in most RTS games)
There are elements in NS1 that we treasure and really don't want to see removed from the game, but the developers don't seem to know what these things are. The things that they're most proud of differ greatly because of perspective; but to be fair, what they like doesn't really matter as much for game success unless it means they're willing to work harder or additionally for it.
Players feel like they're being stripped of things rather than having their favorite game expounded upon, and I agree. This is a problem with almost all game series. The reason we buy a sequel is because we want to be re-immersed in the same game yet with even more... well... everything. If you're going to take things away, you need to replace them with things that make up the difference and more. TF2 got rid of grenades, but they increased weapon damage and removed the armor mechanic; they were successful in ending 'nade spam with very little complaint after users played about two hours. The complaints will be there, but you have to realize that we're worried because it looks like there will be a large number of edits because rendering is expensive rather than it being a brilliant idea that everyone loved.
It looks like you're changing the role of the armory and we need more information about that. There's also a new look to marine technology, we need to see a mock-up of a base to determine if it's a step forward. This building is very tall which offers more cover to larger aliens than last time, are we to believe that the marines wouldn't notice a veritable wall in their base? Is it meant to impede alien ranged attacks? Why is it so big? Some people liked to stand on top of the armory, is it taller to increase that tactical benefit or will this turn into an unforeseen issue?
You can't show us a picture and hope for us to fall in love with unspoken details. I personally think that the marines would figure out that having buildings in the way in their base is a terrible strategy for line-of-sight ranged weapons. Wouldn't they lean towards smaller foot print or lower-to-the-ground designs?
I feel this may be the new "build it to block the doorway" structure while a couple marines weld it.
On a side note, if we're going to have a tardis in the base, why can't we just go inside?
I think it is you that has no idea about the standard rine NS2 start. emphasis on the <b><i>2</b></i>
No. The problem is that everyone has a different opinion about what the "treasured" elements were in NS. When you say "we" you really can only speak for yourself, as I'm sure you will find that there are just as many fans of NS who think completely the opposite from you. The other aspect is that many of these original NS 1 elements only become "treasures" to people once we say that we are changing/removing them.
We, as the developers, have to trust in our own knowledge, experience, love for NS, and our gut instincts. We spend a lot of time weighing the costs vs. benefits of changing something that people are attached to. But if all we do is listen to everyone's opinions about what should and shouldn't change in NS2 we would either end up with the same exact game as NS1, or a terrible mish mash of a game that in the end makes no one happy.
--Cory
Quoted for Truth!
And to emphasise the point....
<!--quoteo(post=1723361:date=Aug 18 2009, 11:44 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 18 2009, 11:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1723361"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No. The problem is that everyone has a different opinion about what the "treasured" elements were in NS. When you say "we" you really can only speak for yourself, as I'm sure you will find that there are just as many fans of NS who think completely the opposite from you. The other aspect is that many of these original NS 1 elements only become "treasures" to people once we say that we are changing/removing them.
We, as the developers, have to trust in our own knowledge, experience, love for NS, and our gut instincts. We spend a lot of time weighing the costs vs. benefits of changing something that people are attached to. But if all we do is listen to everyone's opinions about what should and shouldn't change in NS2 we would either end up with the same exact game as NS1, or a terrible mish mash of a game that in the end makes no one happy.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What everyone else has been saying, but from a Dev's fingers instead!
We, as the developers, have to trust in our own knowledge, experience, love for NS, and our gut instincts. We spend a lot of time weighing the costs vs. benefits of changing something that people are attached to. But if all we do is listen to everyone's opinions about what should and shouldn't change in NS2 we would either end up with the same exact game as NS1, or a terrible mish mash of a game that in the end makes no one happy.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cory, you're right. Don't listen to the nay sayers. This is your guys' game, we just play it.
We, as the developers, have to trust in our own knowledge, experience, love for NS, and our gut instincts. We spend a lot of time weighing the costs vs. benefits of changing something that people are attached to. But if all we do is listen to everyone's opinions about what should and shouldn't change in NS2 we would either end up with the same exact game as NS1, or a terrible mish mash of a game that in the end makes no one happy.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You seem defensive and a bit arrogant so at least you're in like company. You're right, I didn't mean everyone when I said "we" and as a grammatical point: I don't have to. I was referring to the folks that have been posting in contrast to the pistol-knife-taser, skulk, and armory changes not "all" or "everyone." I'm not strictly for or against on any of them. I just try to throw out things to think about as a devil's advocate and in this case to try to consolidate some of the views I've been reading.
Let's face it, the pistol-knife-taser debate stepped on a lot of toes and they told you, the developers, about it per what you asked. If you're just looking for a bunch of cheerleaders, it would be a waste of time. The sentence you take issue with is one that cuts developers the most because it says that you don't have the same point of view as your audience. Do your drawings and projects look the same to you as to others? Of course not, it's part of the human condition. We grow attached to things we've made for sentimental reasons just like we get attached to ideas which happen to be our own.
You're correct about not listening to everyone's opinions but you've come a long way by at least asking for them. Be careful that you're not just looking for affirmation of your own beliefs and ideas, it's not healthy. Sometimes that type of mental hermitage leads to a Picasso or Van Gogh... but more often you'll get a person with thirty cats. It's a gamble and you have to pick an outcome, and no one likes to be second guessed even when they're not sure. Your "knowledge, experience, love for NS, and gut instinct" are formidable but so are your critics. You can't do what all of them ask, but at least you've heard them out.
I know you want kudos after all that work, and my apologies for leaving those out as "covered in the thread already." I love the style, animation, color choices, and friendliness of your design. I can tell a lot of work has gone into the modeling and I find it almost humorous in a dark way that it looks like it will hug the marine to help him relieve from the tension of almost being eaten.
So now that I've thoroughly upset you, Cory, I'd like you to get over the criticisms and appreciate that they've made you more conscious of the topic whether you agree with all the facets or not. It's natural to hate your critics, but lashing out at them is another thing entirely. If you want your work to appeal to a larger audience, learn to detach yourself from the criticisms but not your work.
Let's face it, the pistol-knife-taser debate stepped on a lot of toes and they told you, the developers, about it per what you asked. <b>If you're just looking for a bunch of cheerleaders, it would be a waste of time. The sentence you take issue with is one that cuts developers the most because it says that you don't have the same point of view as your audience. </b> Do your drawings and projects look the same to you as to others? Of course not, it's part of the human condition. We grow attached to things we've made for sentimental reasons just like we get attached to ideas which happen to be our own.
You're correct about not listening to everyone's opinions but you've come a long way by at least asking for them. Be careful that you're not just looking for affirmation of your own beliefs and ideas, it's not healthy. Sometimes that type of mental hermitage leads to a Picasso or Van Gogh... but more often you'll get a person with thirty cats. It's a gamble and you have to pick an outcome, and no one likes to be second guessed even when they're not sure. Your "knowledge, experience, love for NS, and gut instinct" are formidable but so are your critics. You can't do what all of them ask, but at least you've heard them out.
I know you want kudos after all that work, and my apologies for leaving those out as "covered in the thread already." I love the style, animation, color choices, and friendliness of your design. I can tell a lot of work has gone into the modeling and I find it almost humorous in a dark way that it looks like it will hug the marine to help him relieve from the tension of almost being eaten.
<b>So now that I've thoroughly upset you, Cory</b>, I'd like you to get over the criticisms and appreciate that they've made you more conscious of the topic whether you agree with all the facets or not. It's natural to hate your critics, but lashing out at them is another thing entirely. If you want your work to appeal to a larger audience, learn to detach yourself from the criticisms but not your work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are an unusually mean and pretentious person for saying those (bolded) things.