Development Blog Update - Detailed Skulk "reveal"

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Comments

  • OpprobriousOpprobrious Join Date: 2008-11-17 Member: 65483Members
    You are all ASSUMING that they have more game assets complete when ALL the evidence points to the opposite. They don't even have marine or alien concepts complete. Did you all miss the ######storm over the tazer?

    Yes, I am aware they changed engines, that is one of the MANY mistakes they have made developing this game. That is the DUKE NUKEM FOREVER technique of game development.

    The point of NS:source wouldn't be to make money right away, it would be about building a bigger and active community loyal to their brand. And yes, I know what it takes to port things to the source engine. NS is build on an engine from 1996.

    Wake up people.
  • C4K3C4K3 Join Date: 2008-01-26 Member: 63502Banned, Constellation
    edited August 2009
    <!--quoteo(post=1721450:date=Aug 7 2009, 10:16 PM:name=Opprobrious)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opprobrious @ Aug 7 2009, 10:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721450"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm laughing my ass off at all the mindless fanbois running to defend unknownworlds.

    You are now aware that the dynamic infestation video was released almost 3 full years ago.

    THEY ARE STILL WORKING ON CONCEPTS.

    Folks, they aren't close to releasing the alpha.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    +1

    And I'm glad to hear that, maybe they can change their mind and stop trashing the stronger points and details of their own creation in the middle. You never know, maybe some one can wake up Frayra of his donkey kong jungle dream and pull his butt back to the NS spirit and, at the same time, get those "blue oceans" locked down if you know what I mean ;o)
  • Real_PUAReal_PUA Join Date: 2005-03-23 Member: 46255Members
    edited August 2009
    I like the ideas regarding the alternative attack for the skulk. A grapple makes sense to me as, if done right, it would add a lot to the game play. The "swipe" suggestion is also pretty good. It wouldn't add as much game play necessarily to the marine's counter aspect, but the idea of skulks unleashing combos of the bite and swipe does sound enticing.

    Edit: I wanted to comment ont he skulk leap as well. This shouldn't be an alt fire for a weapon slot. I really liked the addition of +movement in NS. It was a huge leap in intuitiveness for alien control. Unless they have something even better than +movement, I think they should stick with it and use the weapon slots for weapons.

    I also like the damage over time suggestion for parasite. In fact, I thought it would be really interesting if the damage over time lasted until medpack or death. It would have to be somewhat slow (like 1-5hp/min) depending on balancing. It would basically just force the com to med his rines or let them slowly die, he wouldn't want to med too often or they would just get 'sited again and require another more.

    Honestly though, I don't know what would work best for this game, but I am really excited for it. IMO the devs should invest in some cloning devices to increase their workforce. How many Charlies, Maxes, Cories, and Matts would it take to release NS2 in 2009?
  • oblivion is at handoblivion is at hand Join Date: 2009-06-14 Member: 67833Members
    Am I the only one that thinks leap should be the alt fire for bite? It makes things a lot easier for inexperienced players who do not know how to bind actions.

    As for the other ability... I like the idea of envenom or a bleed, a dot ability that does little to no upfront damage and could be used before fleeing. Honestly though, I think it would be easiest to wait for alpha, so UWE and the community can see what the skulk needs from actual experience.
  • schkorpioschkorpio I can mspaint Join Date: 2003-05-23 Member: 16635Members
    edited August 2009
    <!--quoteo(post=1721458:date=Aug 8 2009, 03:15 PM:name=Opprobrious)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opprobrious @ Aug 8 2009, 03:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721458"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wake up people.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    actually changing everything to LUA is the smartest thing they could have ever done - they can code and change weapons in game on the fly now - even if they don't have a concept complete, it will be so easy to try something and then tweak and fiddle.

    what was it they said - something like 10 minutes to code a new weapon?

    if that is a fact then most of the game play code could probably be done in a week and i'd be very surprised if the alpha was more than a few months away (they can always use place holder art anyway)
  • DeadzoneDeadzone Join Date: 2003-07-03 Member: 17911Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1721458:date=Aug 8 2009, 12:15 AM:name=Opprobrious)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opprobrious @ Aug 8 2009, 12:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721458"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You are all ASSUMING that they have more game assets complete when ALL the evidence points to the opposite. They don't even have marine or alien concepts complete.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You're aware they've already shown in-game Marines when they did the lighting demo for the new engine, right?
  • kflikfli Join Date: 2005-02-22 Member: 42078Members
    make xenoside the first ability. hows that for noob friendly.
  • TempesT487TempesT487 Join Date: 2009-04-15 Member: 67195Members, NS2 Playtester
    <!--quoteo(post=1721458:date=Aug 8 2009, 03:15 PM:name=Opprobrious)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opprobrious @ Aug 8 2009, 03:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721458"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You are all ASSUMING that they have more game assets complete when ALL the evidence points to the opposite. They don't even have marine or alien concepts complete. Did you all miss the ######storm over the tazer?

    Yes, I am aware they changed engines, that is one of the MANY mistakes they have made developing this game. That is the DUKE NUKEM FOREVER technique of game development.

    The point of NS:source wouldn't be to make money right away, it would be about building a bigger and active community loyal to their brand. And yes, I know what it takes to port things to the source engine. NS is build on an engine from 1996.

    Wake up people.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You are assuming that what we have been shown is all they have done. You are being extremely critical of something you really don't understand. I highly doubt anyone here is in a position to criticise how they develop a game. I think it is fair to give them the benefit of the doubt, they did give us NS1 after all. They know what they are doing.
    Again, you are acting out of place. You think they have made "MANY mistakes", that they have no idea how to make a game, that they should have, and could have easily made a Natural Selection:Source. On top of all this you really think you are undeniably correct in what you say. Arrogance and ignorance once again. You sound like somone who is interested, and critical of game development. Unfortunately your criticisms venture to insults and disrespect, offering nothing more than starkly cynical and arrogant perspective on the development teams supposed failures.
    I don't disrespect your opinion that NS2 may still have a long way to go, I do however find the way you propose this opinion to people as arrogant, and ignorant.
  • reasareasa Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Members, Constellation
    This looks fantastic. I like the new alien "style" that is becoming apparent. The skulk is the most crucial element of the alien side in NS and I’m glad to see its turning out so well. I can't wait to see the others.
  • ScribblesScribbles Join Date: 2003-11-05 Member: 22323Members
    I'd love it if you could make Leap the alternate fire of Bite, so we wouldn't have to switch back and forth between the two all the time. That was the one thing in NS1 that annoyed me the most.
  • Cronus101Cronus101 Join Date: 2006-12-23 Member: 59207Members
    To me, the whole basis of the skulk is his movement. You say you made him slower so make him more maneuverable. Why not make his alt-fire another movement key such as leap. Maybe it could be a quick side step the left or right to throw off the marines aim. Something that would compliment leap so you could do some combo moving. Maybe a quick back step... so lets say you see a mine on the floor you quickly hit alt fire and it jumps you back, like a half leap but backwards.
  • ikirikir Join Date: 2003-07-19 Member: 18265Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Gold
    <!--quoteo(post=1721056:date=Aug 6 2009, 06:41 PM:name=IronFist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IronFist @ Aug 6 2009, 06:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721056"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just a general observation: it'd be great if alt-fire could eat or sap a dead body for small amounts of replacement HP (or set it up so you can drag a body at ~30% speed to make it spookier as skulks drag off bodies to eat on with regular jaw attack). This is really cool in Hidden: Source.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Nice idea!
  • ikirikir Join Date: 2003-07-19 Member: 18265Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Gold
    <!--quoteo(post=1721458:date=Aug 8 2009, 12:15 AM:name=Opprobrious)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opprobrious @ Aug 8 2009, 12:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721458"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You are all ASSUMING that they have more game assets complete when ALL the evidence points to the opposite. They don't even have marine or alien concepts complete. Did you all miss the ######storm over the tazer?

    Yes, I am aware they changed engines, that is one of the MANY mistakes they have made developing this game. That is the DUKE NUKEM FOREVER technique of game development.

    The point of NS:source wouldn't be to make money right away, it would be about building a bigger and active community loyal to their brand. And yes, I know what it takes to port things to the source engine. NS is build on an engine from 1996.

    Wake up people.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    They did the smartest thing to change the engine and develop one new. they have control over it to implement new things fast and in the right way without hacks. They can port it to OSX and Linux natively. They have a base for future products, they have an engine they could licence to other software houses.

    They want to create a new game not NS1 on new engine. So give the developers the right to implement their ideas, try the game and decide then. We have already NS1.
  • Kevlar_GorillaKevlar_Gorilla Join Date: 2004-04-20 Member: 28048Members, Constellation
    For the alt, I'd like to consider a charged focus attack. You hold down the button, the Skulk snarls and can't pounce or run, and the target is highlighted. After 2 seconds, he chomps down with extra power. More focus on the target = more power.

    Make it extra effective against structures and cause some slower movement for marines, but not too much disorientation. For taunting, the snarl makes Marines on edge because they think an attack could be happening, and will be looking around for it.

    For extra fun, let the skulk mess with echoes, and throw certain sounds it makes. Add a tapping sound, like a clicking claw the sound plays once where is sources from, and again louder where it's targeted. Imagine a few clicks and a chuckle coming right behind you. It's the marine's job not to blink.
  • Frogg2Frogg2 Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4867Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1721458:date=Aug 7 2009, 11:15 PM:name=Opprobrious)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opprobrious @ Aug 7 2009, 11:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721458"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You are all ASSUMING that they have more game assets complete when ALL the evidence points to the opposite. They don't even have marine or alien concepts complete. Did you all miss the ######storm over the tazer?

    Yes, I am aware they changed engines, that is one of the MANY mistakes they have made developing this game. That is the DUKE NUKEM FOREVER technique of game development.

    The point of NS:source wouldn't be to make money right away, it would be about building a bigger and active community loyal to their brand. And yes, I know what it takes to port things to the source engine. NS is build on an engine from 1996.

    Wake up people.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Read over their twitter again. There is a lot they haven't shown that they say is done.

    Not that I'm gonna change you're mind, you've already decided ns2 will suck.
  • Dead-InsideDead-Inside Join Date: 2004-09-22 Member: 31862Members
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm coming around to putting leap on the Skulk bite alt-fire. If we add a bite at the end of the leap, then it's consistent too. #fb<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    What a terrible, terrible idea.

    Keep the +movement key, nothing as retarded as this needs to happen and there are at least <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=107132&view=findpost&p=1721414" target="_blank">3 good suggestions</a> for alternate fire. If you make a mandatory bite at the end of the leap then I wont be able to use the skill properly as I can't time things after I've leapt. Terrible.
  • elmo33elmo33 Join Date: 2009-08-07 Member: 68377Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1721512:date=Aug 8 2009, 03:07 PM:name=Dead-Inside)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dead-Inside @ Aug 8 2009, 03:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721512"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What a terrible, terrible idea.

    Keep the +movement key, nothing as retarded as this needs to happen and there are at least <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=107132&view=findpost&p=1721414" target="_blank">3 good suggestions</a> for alternate fire. If you make a mandatory bite at the end of the leap then I wont be able to use the skill properly as I can't time things after I've leapt. Terrible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Agreed completely.
  • OBhaveOBhave Join Date: 2003-03-13 Member: 14462Members, Constellation
    The one suggesting the skulk secondary be a low-damage DoT gave me an idea. The limited effectiveness of the poison dart could be explained by the combat suit neutralizing the poison quickly. The suit might give off an audio warning (something like *warning beeps* biotoxins detected, blood cleansing underway) ... and then maybe there would be a hiss of medical equipment going off ...

    ...and this would increase the annoyance factor AND give the marine a minor debuff (namely making him worse off for soundspotting) ... maybe we could even blur his/her vision <i>slightly</i> ... and maybe even make the marine give off a small grunt of pain.

    Vision could be blurred slowly and progressively, or instantly, depending on if Flay and the gang want skulks to be able to shoot off poison darts mid-combat, or if they want this to be a "soften them up before charging in" sort of thing.
  • GISPGISP Battle Gorge Denmark Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27460Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester, Forum staff
    Bite 2nd attack.

    Apply a DOT to the marines ( dosnt work on buildings )
    Which will alow you to a "hit and run" tactic.
  • eXaeXa Join Date: 2007-09-22 Member: 62400Members
    Opprobrious and C4K3 would you please read this: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_development" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_development</a>

    "A contemporary game can take from one to three years to develop,"

    In july they announced that they where working since Feburary on a new engine <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2008/7engine_questions_and_answers" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2008...ons_and_answers</a>

    That's mean that they are working on it only for 1 year and 6 months so according to the wiki article they only get almost the alpha in half the usal development time

    So please just stfu and wait or leave we don't need people like you on NS
  • Dead-InsideDead-Inside Join Date: 2004-09-22 Member: 31862Members
    Just realized the engine announcementpost talks about Punkbuster.

    Very bad.
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    I think they were persuaded into forgetting about PB.
  • juicejuice Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12886Members, Constellation
    edited August 2009
    <!--quoteo(post=1721519:date=Aug 8 2009, 08:47 AM:name=OBhave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OBhave @ Aug 8 2009, 08:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721519"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The one suggesting the skulk secondary be a low-damage DoT gave me an idea...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's a great idea, I love it. I think the fancy hud animations could be too much work though, they've got a lot to do.

    --
    Dear Flayra,

    All movement abilities must not require more than 1 button press, total. Or at least have the option of a single key bind.

    I don't know what "alt-fire" means exactly, but there has to be a key control system in place that isn't bound to the HL paradigm of weapon slots, or "alt-fire" where you have to equip a certain ability to use another ability. Having a system of slots is fine, but it can't be limited by that, and it must be customizable.

    In other words there should be customizable weapon slots, so you can bind an ability to a slot AND to a single button. And you can overload the slots as much as you want.

    Now, with marines, obviously you must have a weapon "out" in order to use one of its fire keys. But with aliens, it needs to be flexible.

    And obviously, I vote NO to bite at the end of a leap. That sounds like an MMO script or something. I want to decide when I bite. The only reason the leap-bite scripts were an issue was because you had to switch "weapons" quickly, pressing multiple keys for different slots, which was difficult for some players.

    Ultimately I want to be able to bind leap, bite, and parasite to their own keys, so I am free to go crazy doing action after action (think of kpm in starcraft). I want to blink, swipe, meta, rocket, meta, blink, swipe all without touching the ground. You have to raise the competitive skill ceiling by designing control with this paradigm in mind.

    Give the player control with possibilities. Don't take it away using automation.
  • JirikiJiriki retired ns1 player Join Date: 2003-01-04 Member: 11780Members, NS1 Playtester, Squad Five Silver
    edited August 2009
    How about making the alt-fire for skulk to be kind of loadable charge. Like Growl in Vampireslayer. Basically it will make enemies glow red and incrase damage for short period of time. Maybe it could increase speed also.
  • HoAxHoAx Join Date: 2004-02-10 Member: 26347Members
    nice!, cant wait to see The Fade!
  • rebirthrebirth Join Date: 2007-09-23 Member: 62416Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1721056:date=Aug 7 2009, 12:41 AM:name=IronFist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IronFist @ Aug 7 2009, 12:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721056"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just a general observation: it'd be great if alt-fire could eat or sap a dead body for small amounts of replacement HP (or set it up so you can drag a body at ~30% speed to make it spookier as skulks drag off bodies to eat on with regular jaw attack). This is really cool in Hidden: Source.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Heh that's a really awesome idea!
    I like that, biting dead bodies could regenerate small amounts of HP and the alt attack of bite would grab a corpse (and even other things, weapons? medpacks?) so the skulk could drag the bodie into a vent.
    Of course a dead marine shouldn't heal up too much, maybe half of a skulks HP (and only HP and no armor) before the body is eaten up.

    Or imagine skulks grabbing weapons and running off with them :D
    Seriously that would be an huge boost to the atmosphere, imagine skulks hanging up bodies of dead marines in a hallway. I really liked the things you could do to freak out people in the hidden mod, giving the skulk the same options would be totaly awesome.

    Grabbing items as a skulk would be also cool, with devour gone it would be an alternate way to remove weapons from marines, or even use them as traps. You could grab a shotgun as skulk and place it in an easy to ambush location and wait for some clueless marine who wants to pick it up. Oh the possibilities!



    And i seriously don't like the ranged DoT idea or any kind of confusing effects, remember that the skulk is the backbone of the alien team, the skulks will be on the field in the biggest numbers. Giving them a ranged dot will result in hordes of skulks kiting marines to death and if the dot is too weak nobody is gonna use it.
  • OpprobriousOpprobrious Join Date: 2008-11-17 Member: 65483Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-eXa+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (eXa)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Opprobrious and C4K3 would you please read this: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_development" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_development</a>

    "A contemporary game can take from one to three years to develop,"

    In july they announced that they where working since Feburary on a new engine <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2008...ons_and_answers" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2008...ons_and_answers</a>

    That's mean that they are working on it only for 1 year and 6 months so according to the wiki article they only get almost the alpha in half the usal development time

    So please just stfu and wait or leave we don't need people like you on NS<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Wait, you think that they did NO DEVELOPMENT on ns2 since the source engine came out in 2004?

    They claim to have been working on NS2 for much longer than the engine switch.
  • Invader_ScootInvader_Scoot Join Date: 2003-10-13 Member: 21669Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    C4K3 and Opprobrious, while obviously both are very critical, are one of the essential voices in making a game. Sure it's nice to have everyone love everything that the developers show, but it's those two folks who, on release of the alpha and beta, will be whipping the game into shape. They'll be scrimming and putting out some serious feedback.

    About the elapsed time so far for this game: it's been a while, especially when you bring up the notion of dynamic infestation being shown off 3 years ago... And that was probably on the source engine. Simply put: there is absolutely no possible way that this game is going to be released in the fall of 2009. We currently have no alpha (and even if we were in beta I'd still be worried) and fall officially starts on September 22nd, with winter officially starting on December 21st. That's a pretty small bit of time for their currently projected development progress.

    Not that the time of release immediately worries me. I'd rather a great finished game then one full of bugs. But when a team considers ripping out heavy armor for sake of time or money it's definitely worryful. Now I don't mind that decision as long as it means that there will be more than just jetpacks available for the marines advancing through the tech tree.
  • eXaeXa Join Date: 2007-09-22 Member: 62400Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1721582:date=Aug 8 2009, 10:02 PM:name=Opprobrious)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opprobrious @ Aug 8 2009, 10:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721582"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wait, you think that they did NO DEVELOPMENT on ns2 since the source engine came out in 2004?

    They claim to have been working on NS2 for much longer than the engine switch.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes but appart from the art work and some ideas, they started the game code from scratches in 2008 because they switched engines so they had to start it from the begging
    Anyway we will see I hope that they realese the beta before 2010
  • SirotSirot Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58851Members
    My suggestions for the Skulk, with the assumption that +mouse1 (left click) is always bite and +mouse2 (right click) is the activated ability.

    Primary Attack ---
    Bite

    Secondary Attacks ---
    Basic - Corrosive Spray: The Skulk violently regurgitates it's stomach acids that helps break down armored targets. The attack can be maintained for up to 3 seconds, with every second dealing 10 + 20% of total armor damage directly to target's armor and increasing the amount of damage a building takes by 10%/20%/30% (for each second held respectively, capping at 30%) for the next 20 seconds. After this ability is used, the skulk is tired and his movement speed is reduced by half.
    Hive1 - Leap
    Hive2 - Bacterial Spike: Spikes composed of fossilized bacteria are formed in the skulk's stomache. Using it's highly tuned physiology it can vomit these spikes in high speeds to impale far away targets. Each spike is about the size of a pen and while accurate, does not do that much damage (5). It is however, indeed made of bacteria that will try to attack the target's organism doing 2 damage every second for 5 seconds (for a total of 10 damage) and every additional spike resets the timer and adds an additional 5 seconds to the duration. E.g. A marine spiked twice will take 30 damage over 15 seconds if the second spike hit the marine right before the first spike's infection duration ends.
    Hive3 - No clue?
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