AbraWould you kindlyJoin Date: 2003-08-17Member: 19870Members
Oh get over yourself. How much is 44.9$ in your country again? Get a job <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
As I tried nicely to drop the hint in my earlier post, you're basing your opinion on half the game.
Valve has stated multiple times that versus mode is the focus on their attention.
After getting to play a hunter first hand, it moves faster than something like a fade/leaping skulk when properly played. I have a feeling that combinations are going to be deadly - like having a smoker grab someone then having your boomer buddy spitting on him followed by two hunters taking care of the other survivors.
Setting up ambushes and griefing the survivors seems like a massive amount of fun. Hell, just reading the above scenario makes me look forward to it. And then to have the roles reversed to see if you can beat them seems very competitive, which is something I enjoy.
Combine this with their new system and matchmaking will be really easy. Invite your friends, team up, hit 'find game.' Done.
I'll hold my 'The entire game is boring as ###### since I'm just shooting NPC' comments until after the game actually releases and the main part of the game is available.
Maybe I'm just a Valve fanboy but I (along with most of my buddies in <a href="http://thezombieworks.com" target="_blank">ZW</a> and <a href="http://oldf.net" target="_blank">OldF</a>) really like L4D and I'm not upset about pre-ordering it at all. After my first go I felt a lot like Tycho: is shooting hordes of zombies for hours worth my time and money? Server issues aside, I kept playing and found this game to be more like a viciously fun <b>Marine Trainer</b> with scripted scenarios and advanced AI than CS. Granted, I haven't played CS in years and never played CS Zombie so maybe it's not a fair point of reference.
Once you get into Advanced/Experts with friends or thoughtful people who know a thing or two about group tactics the game takes on a whole new face. It's not just about shooting zombies anymore, it becomes more about shooting zombies efficiently, using cover effectively, and thinking through ways to deal with horde rushes and boss zombies as well as keeping your friends alive and protecting the teammates who are low on health. The polish on the game provides a bit of an emotional attachment to the characters as well; you're not just some random marine or spec op fighter, you're Bill or Francis and the voice acting lets the personalities of the characters shine through. I only suspect the full version will deepen this character development so when you hear Louis saying, "Oh god Zoey! No!" it will be a bit more moving than "Oh well, the Soldier got exploded again."
And that's what I love about this game: it's more an experience of story telling than multiplayer action or strategy. It's a different sort of Valve game. I love my TF2 and NS and all those other shooters but this game has the character that Valve put into TF2 (and all their games for that matter) extended into a group story. I get the same feeling of being on a good Frontiersman team but in a game that is specifically designed for the 'Frontiersmen' experience. Of course I've only played the demo and these feelings of mine might dissipate or maybe I've just been deluded by the sweet draught of Valve's marketing team but I think this will be the game I think it is. Whether you like it or not doesn't really matter. The game is going to sell well and Valve will keep pumping resources into it for suckers like me who eat this stuff up.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1693223:date=Nov 12 2008, 03:39 AM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Scythe @ Nov 12 2008, 03:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693223"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Tycho continues his crusade against good games!
Quaunaut complains about slow downloads!
Sigh, I'd expected better of both of you. I fail to see how anyone could not have fun playing this game. I downloaded the demo as soon as it went live at over 700kB/s average. You can check the load on individual content servers <a href="http://store.steampowered.com/stats/content/" target="_blank">here</a>. If those bars aren't full, the problem's on your end. Sucks to be you.
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't say a damn thing about the game, just Valve's ######ty servers. And as much as I'm sure you'd love to say the problem is on 'my end', I'm sure it was also on 'our end' of the other several hundred people complaining about it on L4D's forums.
That aside: I haven't said anything about it since last night because I'm trying to determine what I think. And what I think is: Great concept, lots of fun, but... too many niggling problems to really usurp anything in a multiplayer sense with me.
For example: The weapons are incredibly sparse. You have Shotgun, Upgraded Shotgun. Uzi, Assault Rifle(Upgraded Uzi). And a sniper rifle. I would've liked a bit more variety- and within that, howabout some balancing? The Uzi and AR are so overwhelmingly better than the shotguns its kinda ridiculous. They're better at: Dealing with hordes, dealing with singulars, precision fire, long range, short range, tanks even. I could see using the Sniper Rifle for its penetration and scoring potentials, but the shotguns have more or less no worth to them. Long reload times, the normal one has a long in between shot phase, and they don't provide a ton of firepower- against a Tank, they fare much worse than the autos.
Another thing: The items are hit and miss. While I think their handling of pipe bombs, molotovs, and health packs are good- pills seem kinda 'meh', like just a half-strength health pack. It may make a difference on a longer campaign, but considering the short distance between stations, I'm not so sure.
Also: While I *love* the AI director(really, its great how often it's surprised me), can't we get a *bit* of level variety? Why not let us find different paths through the alleys once outside the apartment building? Always having to go next to the same things(and having the cars in the same place- why not make those relatively random, like the zombies?) kinda sucks. The environments they've built would lend themselves well to easily making changes- whether it be going down a different alley, or having one of the caved in exits of the subway switch each time. Not huge, sweeping changes, but small changes that just loosen the rubber band's push in either direction.
Then there is the actual teamwork, and the game's logic. I enjoy the idea of having to pick up a friend- but they do it horribly here. They make you feel like a ######ty player, or cheated, for needing help, because the pickup time is so long. Gears of War handled this better because it was quick, but it was risky to stop mid fight and do this. Now, you basically have no reason to pick someone up mid fight because it takes too long, and the hordes are too short. Also: If no enemies are around, and the knocked down person's health is pretty high: Why can't they just stand up on their own?
I still have had a ton of fun with it already, and anticipate playing more with some real teamwork, and seeing if we can't force the director to go insanely hard, but these are design flaws that I just feel Valve is overlooking too easily.
douchebagatronCustom member titleJoin Date: 2003-12-20Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
on the issue of shotguns, i used to think that they were worthless, but after using them for a while i've come to love them and pick them above everything else. I never have an ammo problem, and i can still handle the infected just as well, if not better because one shell will take out at least one zombie, and cause several other to stumble or fall. It's great in expert because even one zombie can cause a lot of damage, so instead of killing them all before they kill you, you need to kill them all and keep them at a distance.
It is a very good strategy to have half the team with shotguns, half with uzis or automatics, so that way 2 players can keep the infected at a distance and the other 2 can do damage.
<!--quoteo(post=1693243:date=Nov 12 2008, 04:56 PM:name=Quaunaut)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Quaunaut @ Nov 12 2008, 04:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693243"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would've liked a bit more variety- and within that, howabout some balancing? The Uzi and AR are so overwhelmingly better than the shotguns its kinda ridiculous. They're better at: Dealing with hordes, dealing with singulars, precision fire, long range, short range, tanks even. I could see using the Sniper Rifle for its penetration and scoring potentials, but the shotguns have more or less no worth to them. Long reload times, the normal one has a long in between shot phase, and they don't provide a ton of firepower- against a Tank, they fare much worse than the autos.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree, the shotguns are much better for survival as every shot is a one hit kill as long as the distance is right. If you are down to 2 bullets with UZI and a zombie is right in your face, it happens you aren't fast enough to melee before you get hit. It also consumes ammo much faster, I have yet to run out of shotgun bullets but the UZI often runs dry unless you conserve ammo with the pistol. Shotguns also deal with a larger area in front of you, as well as penetrating several rows back worth of zombies. Zombie masters are one hit kills, even the boomer at longer ranges. The only real problem you said would be getting gripped by a smoker or facing a tank. If you are screwed anyway, which you mostly are with a tank stepping on your toes anyway, it deals a lot of damage quickly for others to take it down easier. The reload, well, either it's bugged or they made it to actually keep reloading when you are using melee so that's not the biggest problem.
Shirtguns rule and as to all of your concerns, Quaunaut, they'll probably be addressed in the full release.
Seriously though, shotguns suck at range but the auto-shotty has been the best thus far at dealing with the horde. Especially if you're not the one being rushed and can find a good angle as they stream by you can hose them more quickly because the spray takes out several per shot and it seems to penetrate bodies so if they're side-by-side you can get even more.
I prefer the Assault Rifle but the shotgun seems pretty good to me. I haven't had a chance to use the auto shotty but the normal one can hit many zombies at a time. If I want long range headshots I just pull out the pistol and crouch, but up close the shotgun seems just as good as the AR or Uzi. It runs out of ammo faster but it compensates for it by hitting a larger area.
SentrySteve, you might be right, but there's no versus in the demo (at least without playing with the console) so at least from what I've played I won't be buying this. First Valve game I won't buy, in fact. Actually I guess I didn't buy Half-Life: Source. Also this is still sort of Turtle Rock, which isn't real Valve. Pseudo-Valve.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2008
Melee is still the most powerfull thing in the game though, which still concerns me (haven't played L4D demo in a while though so could it be so that is has been "nerfed"? Gah I hate that word <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />)
<!--quoteo(post=1693223:date=Nov 12 2008, 03:39 AM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Scythe @ Nov 12 2008, 03:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693223"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I fail to see how anyone could not have fun playing this game. --Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some people just don't have friends to play with.
I'm having a blast playing with both coworkers and people from #ns.
I'm always glad to see people enjoy themselves but I am kinda confuzzled by the love the game is getting. Don't get me wrong by a long shot, it's sorta fun. That's the thing though, it's just ok to me. I'm not blown away and strangely it doesn't feel 'new' though I can't put my finger on why.
I've no qualms about the fact I've bought it, it's a bit early to judge seeing as all we've got is a demo but from what I've played it's just sorta average to me. It's funny though, the whole 'cast of characters' thing mentioned is similar to a mod idea I'd been toying with a good while back, seeing it in action is kinda interesting, especially as I never had the resources to realistically pull it off :3
I'm sure I'll enjoy it and whatnot but I guess the steps on the hype wagon are too high for me... someone want to lend me a hand? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
One thing that I've enjoyed doing the game is setting silly requirements. This mostly only works in the second level. - Trying to go all melee - Trying to use only pistols - Everyone has to get the sniper rifle
<!--quoteo(post=1693264:date=Nov 12 2008, 12:32 PM:name=KungFuDiscoMonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Nov 12 2008, 12:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693264"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One thing that I've enjoyed doing the game is setting silly requirements. This mostly only works in the second level. - Trying to go all melee - Trying to use only pistols - Everyone has to get the sniper rifle<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Save your time for when the achievements are released. There is one you get for going the whole story with only your pistols.
<!--quoteo(post=1693263:date=Nov 12 2008, 06:28 PM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Geminosity @ Nov 12 2008, 06:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693263"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm always glad to see people enjoy themselves but I am kinda confuzzled by the love the game is getting. Don't get me wrong by a long shot, it's sorta fun. That's the thing though, it's just ok to me. I'm not blown away and strangely it doesn't feel 'new' though I can't put my finger on why.
I've no qualms about the fact I've bought it, it's a bit early to judge seeing as all we've got is a demo but from what I've played it's just sorta average to me. It's funny though, the whole 'cast of characters' thing mentioned is similar to a mod idea I'd been toying with a good while back, seeing it in action is kinda interesting, especially as I never had the resources to realistically pull it off :3
I'm sure I'll enjoy it and whatnot but I guess the steps on the hype wagon are too high for me... someone want to lend me a hand? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I feel similarly; it's worth playing, especially with friends, but it's not the most fun thing I've got on my computar.
Versus mode is going to change all that. Still a little bitter over not being able to climb walls though, I was looking forward to Skulk Simulator 2008
<!--quoteo(post=1693263:date=Nov 12 2008, 12:28 PM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Geminosity @ Nov 12 2008, 12:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693263"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm always glad to see people enjoy themselves but I am kinda confused by the love the game is getting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seeing how we've all been around for a lot of game releases, it's pretty clear that some titles get a stupid amount of praise. Video game buyers should be aware of that. L4D, Spore, GTA 4, etc are all games that are over hyped.
The only time you should buy into the hype is if you're craving a game. Currently, I would kill for a popular, complex, and balanced RTS. As you can imagine, I'm waiting for SC2. Unless you really wanted a co-op zombie survival game, there's no real reason to buy into the hype.
It seems to be a social thing. After romping through the demo with DHP, zaggy and Monkfish on expert, my opinion has changed from the initial "hmm, eh" to "I might get this." Half (or more) of the fun is the banter and screaming over voicecomm.
<!--quoteo(post=1693285:date=Nov 12 2008, 11:37 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Nov 12 2008, 11:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693285"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It seems to be a social thing. After romping through the demo with DHP, zaggy and Monkfish on expert, my opinion has changed from the initial "hmm, eh" to "I might get this." Half (or more) of the fun is the banter and screaming over voicecomm.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yep. That's why I need to fix my mic.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
<!--quoteo(post=1693291:date=Nov 12 2008, 03:13 PM:name=KungFuDiscoMonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Nov 12 2008, 03:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693291"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yep. That's why I need to fix my mic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ditto. It's a lot better with people that actually try to work together and talk on their mic.
MonkfishSonic-boom-inducing buttcheeks of terrifying speed!Join Date: 2003-06-03Member: 16972Members
<!--quoteo(post=1693285:date=Nov 12 2008, 07:37 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Nov 12 2008, 07:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693285"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It seems to be a social thing. After romping through the demo with DHP, zaggy and Monkfish on expert, my opinion has changed from the initial "hmm, eh" to "I might get this." Half (or more) of the fun is the banter and screaming over voicecomm.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lolfighter is banned from having fire. Banned you hear me!
What I really miss from L4D is the ability to sneak past all the zombie hords, by switching of the flashllight and walking/crouching, whatever.. I tried multiple times with flashlight switched off in dark rooms so I wouldnt see anything, and those zombies still see me (I didnt touch them)..
Other than that, it seems to be a great game. I have to say Im also not that blown away, but I think this is one of the most fun coop games ever, besides Gears of War and maybe SvenCoop <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1693263:date=Nov 12 2008, 12:28 PM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Geminosity @ Nov 12 2008, 12:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693263"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm always glad to see people enjoy themselves but I am kinda confuzzled by the love the game is getting. Don't get me wrong by a long shot, it's sorta fun. That's the thing though, it's just ok to me. I'm not blown away and strangely it doesn't feel 'new' though I can't put my finger on why.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It seems familiar because Resident Evil: Survivor did the same concept first. Only it kinda sucked.
<!--quoteo(post=1693285:date=Nov 12 2008, 03:37 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Nov 12 2008, 03:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693285"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It seems to be a social thing. After romping through the demo with DHP, zaggy and Monkfish on expert, my opinion has changed from the initial "hmm, eh" to "I might get this." Half (or more) of the fun is the banter and screaming over voicecomm.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quite right! Playing the demo with CPU controlled teammates left me with a bit of a "meh" feeling, but playing with human players is a lot more fun. *zaggynl shoots lolfighter just before reaching the saferoom* *zaggynl cackles*
The game doesn't run very well though for me, stuttering when lots of zombies show up or just randomly it seems. Appears to be a known problem, something with multi-core processors. mat_queue_mode 0 in console is said to fix it, you can also make the game run on one core with Task Manager.
To get console: Add <!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->bind "f12" "toggleconsole"<!--c2--></div><!--ec2--> to C:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\left 4 dead demo\left4dead\cfg
Windows mode also seems to help: <a href="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8387714&postcount=39" target="_blank">http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/show...mp;postcount=39</a>
Valve dev about it: <a href="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8393874&postcount=91" target="_blank">http://forums.steampowered.com/forum/showp...mp;postcount=91</a> <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just a note - people are reporting a few different things in this thread and calling them the same thing.
Currently I'm working on the problem where framerate bounces back and forth between low & high rapidly. Setting mat_queue_mode 0 stops the behavior (but reduces the average framerate).
This problem appears to be a threading conflict between our code and some other programs (or drivers) running on the machine. I've duplicated it with some AntiVirus software (e.g. real-time scanning in eTrust) and with multi-monitor setups. The next update will have a change to how we initialize threading that fixes these cases on the machines I have here.
If you are experiencing this problem, please try again with the next update and post your results.
There was another problem that caused occasional hangs (several seconds apart) that was fixed with a steam client update release today. If you are experiencing that problem, make sure to restart steam (guarantees you have the latest client) and please post your results here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2008
Too much hassle for a console don't ya think, especially if there is an option to enable it in the menu at Options>Keyboard/Mouse>Allow developer console <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Also I do bind the "openserverbrowser" command to F10 for example...
I gave you a get-out clause there Tycho, you should have taken it. By admitting to playing all those games and spending that amount of time on CS, your statement now just looks plain stupid.
<b>20 reasons why L4D isn't just "CS with Zombies"</b>
1. Accuracy degradation is not as severe, recoil is minimal 2. Contextual character communication (just like in TF2) 3. Many more HUD states (vomit, saliva, blood specks) 4. More than 1 type of enemy (enemies have different basic abilities) 5. Bot AI is more impressive, less cheaty; making offline play more fun 6. Assymmetric human teams in Versus mode (no, AK versus M1A4 is not enough to count as assymmetric) 7. Lobby size is smaller, friends-only games can be created to protect against griefing or general idiocy 8. In-built vote system to manage griefers and AFKs, no Admin required 9. As a <i>game feature</i> (not a server plugin), bots make up player numbers seamlessly until a new player joins 10. Difficulty settings make the game more accessible to newcomers, you can invite friends and introduce them at their own pace 11. Dynamic difficulty setting within each difficulty setting (AI Director, which actually works) 12. No round-based spawn system, players can be rescued from the next 'closet' 13. Play as 5 (6?) different types of character (Survivor, Boomer, Hunter, Witch, Smoker, Tank?) all with completely different movement and combat abilities 14. 16 official maps (IIRC a few more than CSS has, but perhaps I'm wrong) 15. 'Story' mode featuring 4 different campaigns 16. Will have achievements 17. Advanced graphics, shaders, filters, etc. 18. More enemies per 'round' 19. Co-operative play AND Humans vs. Humans team multiplayer 20. Very deep and well-refined sound effects and incidental score
I'll stop here. Tycho, please give me your list of 20 reasons why L4D <u>is</u> just CS with Zombies if you believe it so strongly. If you don't like the game, that's fine. But don't come up with bull######, unsubstantiated claptrap to support your views.
Not to mention Zombie mod may be fun but it has absolutely no depth whatsoever and a bunch of ###### custom maps to boot. Playing on the default CSS maps usually sucks because they aren't built for melee versus long-range.
How to play as a zombie: <a href="http://www.teamfortress2fort.com/forums/t/Left4DeadPlayableZombies-18198.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.teamfortress2fort.com/forums/t/...bies-18198.aspx</a>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hey, I found this last night, and I figured I'd post it. Sorry if someone else has already. I searched but couldn't find any.
Here's a tutorial I found online to enable zombie play: <a href="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=745482" target="_blank">http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/show...ad.php?t=745482</a>
This works for single player, and multiplayer on a lan server.
"There are scraps of Versus mode inside the demo. Models, sounds, and yes, even helpful tooltips and hint screens are included for playing the Infected bosses! If this post is somehow against the rules, delete it at your leisure.
1. From the starting screen, click Options, then Mouse/Keyboard, and enable the developer console.
2. Start a single player game and open your console with the ~ key.
3. Type "sv_cheats 1" and press enter. This will enable cheat mode.
4. Type "ent_fire !self setteam 3" and press enter. When you close the console, you will "die" and join the Infected team!
You get to choose where to spawn as a baddie! Press E to cycle through some suggested spawn locations, or to teleport directly to the survivors if you get too far away before spawning. But the next problem is that the AI controlled survivors will not leave their starting room and the game will not start on its own.
5. Open the console and type "director_force_versus_start 1" and enter to begin the round.
The survivors will start hacking their way through the apartment building and you finally get to try your zombie character!
6. When you die (and you probably will), you will not respawn. Press space to cycle through different spectating modes till you are in in free flight mode. You must then use these commands in the console.
z_spawn tank z_spawn boomer z_spawn smoker z_spawn hunter
These will spawn you as that infected at the spot you are currently "flying" while dead. (Bonus fun: If you use these commands while you are alive, it will spawn a computer-controlled boss of that type where you are aiming. z_add will spawn a regular infected regardless of whether you are alive or dead. z_spawn witch also works, but she is always computer controlled)
KEEP IN MIND that these are just scraps of Versus mode! These demo maps were not designed for it, and they are not balanced or bug free in any way! There are places where you will die as soon as you spawn among other fun ways to get stuck or "break" the level (see <a href="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=745641" target="_blank">here</a>)
Many people including me have been unable to get the AI survivors to leave the safe room in the subways. Unless someone gets a work around, this only works on the apartment level. EDIT: sb_all_bot_team 1 is reported to make the subways workable."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2008
What do you guys think about the hunter and not being able to stop the attack once started? You're kinda a sitting duck with low hp when using your main attack, that does not even do much damage... I'd rather have the main attack do a small amount of damage and knock the survivor in question over and give them a dizzy effect for a while (less effective aiming). Combined with the load time to be able pounce again it should be quite balanced and open up more strategy for the hunter. Pounce, while the survivor is knocked over slash at him/her and jump out (fade attacks? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />)
Currently it seems that when you pounce, you're most likely dead before you know it. Simply because you cannot stop the attack and as a result can't move/escape...
@Crispy: Ye cannot play tha witch y'know <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
@Zaggy Haha if all else fails, throw cars? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1693333:date=Nov 13 2008, 05:30 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Nov 13 2008, 05:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693333"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I gave you a get-out clause there Tycho, you should have taken it. By admitting to playing all those games and spending that amount of time on CS, your statement now just looks plain stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*starts beating on the lunchroom table*
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHH!!
And does that zombie cheat still work? I thought they patched it out of the demo. Also, <a href="http://left4dead411.com/news/2008/11/demo-split-third-more/" target="_blank">here's</a> a cool little "cheat" that lets you change your camera angle.
Comments
As I tried nicely to drop the hint in my earlier post, you're basing your opinion on half the game.
Valve has stated multiple times that versus mode is the focus on their attention.
After getting to play a hunter first hand, it moves faster than something like a fade/leaping skulk when properly played. I have a feeling that combinations are going to be deadly - like having a smoker grab someone then having your boomer buddy spitting on him followed by two hunters taking care of the other survivors.
Setting up ambushes and griefing the survivors seems like a massive amount of fun. Hell, just reading the above scenario makes me look forward to it. And then to have the roles reversed to see if you can beat them seems very competitive, which is something I enjoy.
Combine this with their new system and matchmaking will be really easy. Invite your friends, team up, hit 'find game.' Done.
I'll hold my 'The entire game is boring as ###### since I'm just shooting NPC' comments until after the game actually releases and the main part of the game is available.
Once you get into Advanced/Experts with friends or thoughtful people who know a thing or two about group tactics the game takes on a whole new face. It's not just about shooting zombies anymore, it becomes more about shooting zombies efficiently, using cover effectively, and thinking through ways to deal with horde rushes and boss zombies as well as keeping your friends alive and protecting the teammates who are low on health. The polish on the game provides a bit of an emotional attachment to the characters as well; you're not just some random marine or spec op fighter, you're Bill or Francis and the voice acting lets the personalities of the characters shine through. I only suspect the full version will deepen this character development so when you hear Louis saying, "Oh god Zoey! No!" it will be a bit more moving than "Oh well, the Soldier got exploded again."
And that's what I love about this game: it's more an experience of story telling than multiplayer action or strategy. It's a different sort of Valve game. I love my TF2 and NS and all those other shooters but this game has the character that Valve put into TF2 (and all their games for that matter) extended into a group story. I get the same feeling of being on a good Frontiersman team but in a game that is specifically designed for the 'Frontiersmen' experience. Of course I've only played the demo and these feelings of mine might dissipate or maybe I've just been deluded by the sweet draught of Valve's marketing team but I think this will be the game I think it is. Whether you like it or not doesn't really matter. The game is going to sell well and Valve will keep pumping resources into it for suckers like me who eat this stuff up.
Quaunaut complains about slow downloads!
Sigh, I'd expected better of both of you. I fail to see how anyone could not have fun playing this game. I downloaded the demo as soon as it went live at over 700kB/s average. You can check the load on individual content servers <a href="http://store.steampowered.com/stats/content/" target="_blank">here</a>. If those bars aren't full, the problem's on your end. Sucks to be you.
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't say a damn thing about the game, just Valve's ######ty servers. And as much as I'm sure you'd love to say the problem is on 'my end', I'm sure it was also on 'our end' of the other several hundred people complaining about it on L4D's forums.
That aside: I haven't said anything about it since last night because I'm trying to determine what I think. And what I think is: Great concept, lots of fun, but... too many niggling problems to really usurp anything in a multiplayer sense with me.
For example: The weapons are incredibly sparse. You have Shotgun, Upgraded Shotgun. Uzi, Assault Rifle(Upgraded Uzi). And a sniper rifle. I would've liked a bit more variety- and within that, howabout some balancing? The Uzi and AR are so overwhelmingly better than the shotguns its kinda ridiculous. They're better at: Dealing with hordes, dealing with singulars, precision fire, long range, short range, tanks even. I could see using the Sniper Rifle for its penetration and scoring potentials, but the shotguns have more or less no worth to them. Long reload times, the normal one has a long in between shot phase, and they don't provide a ton of firepower- against a Tank, they fare much worse than the autos.
Another thing: The items are hit and miss. While I think their handling of pipe bombs, molotovs, and health packs are good- pills seem kinda 'meh', like just a half-strength health pack. It may make a difference on a longer campaign, but considering the short distance between stations, I'm not so sure.
Also: While I *love* the AI director(really, its great how often it's surprised me), can't we get a *bit* of level variety? Why not let us find different paths through the alleys once outside the apartment building? Always having to go next to the same things(and having the cars in the same place- why not make those relatively random, like the zombies?) kinda sucks. The environments they've built would lend themselves well to easily making changes- whether it be going down a different alley, or having one of the caved in exits of the subway switch each time. Not huge, sweeping changes, but small changes that just loosen the rubber band's push in either direction.
Then there is the actual teamwork, and the game's logic. I enjoy the idea of having to pick up a friend- but they do it horribly here. They make you feel like a ######ty player, or cheated, for needing help, because the pickup time is so long. Gears of War handled this better because it was quick, but it was risky to stop mid fight and do this. Now, you basically have no reason to pick someone up mid fight because it takes too long, and the hordes are too short. Also: If no enemies are around, and the knocked down person's health is pretty high: Why can't they just stand up on their own?
I still have had a ton of fun with it already, and anticipate playing more with some real teamwork, and seeing if we can't force the director to go insanely hard, but these are design flaws that I just feel Valve is overlooking too easily.
It is a very good strategy to have half the team with shotguns, half with uzis or automatics, so that way 2 players can keep the infected at a distance and the other 2 can do damage.
I disagree, the shotguns are much better for survival as every shot is a one hit kill as long as the distance is right. If you are down to 2 bullets with UZI and a zombie is right in your face, it happens you aren't fast enough to melee before you get hit. It also consumes ammo much faster, I have yet to run out of shotgun bullets but the UZI often runs dry unless you conserve ammo with the pistol. Shotguns also deal with a larger area in front of you, as well as penetrating several rows back worth of zombies. Zombie masters are one hit kills, even the boomer at longer ranges. The only real problem you said would be getting gripped by a smoker or facing a tank. If you are screwed anyway, which you mostly are with a tank stepping on your toes anyway, it deals a lot of damage quickly for others to take it down easier. The reload, well, either it's bugged or they made it to actually keep reloading when you are using melee so that's not the biggest problem.
Seriously though, shotguns suck at range but the auto-shotty has been the best thus far at dealing with the horde. Especially if you're not the one being rushed and can find a good angle as they stream by you can hose them more quickly because the spray takes out several per shot and it seems to penetrate bodies so if they're side-by-side you can get even more.
SentrySteve, you might be right, but there's no versus in the demo (at least without playing with the console) so at least from what I've played I won't be buying this. First Valve game I won't buy, in fact. Actually I guess I didn't buy Half-Life: Source. Also this is still sort of Turtle Rock, which isn't real Valve. Pseudo-Valve.
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Some people just don't have friends to play with.
I'm having a blast playing with both coworkers and people from #ns.
I've no qualms about the fact I've bought it, it's a bit early to judge seeing as all we've got is a demo but from what I've played it's just sorta average to me. It's funny though, the whole 'cast of characters' thing mentioned is similar to a mod idea I'd been toying with a good while back, seeing it in action is kinda interesting, especially as I never had the resources to realistically pull it off :3
I'm sure I'll enjoy it and whatnot but I guess the steps on the hype wagon are too high for me... someone want to lend me a hand? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
- Trying to go all melee
- Trying to use only pistols
- Everyone has to get the sniper rifle
Oh yeah and always playing on Expert.
- Trying to go all melee
- Trying to use only pistols
- Everyone has to get the sniper rifle<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Save your time for when the achievements are released. There is one you get for going the whole story with only your pistols.
I've no qualms about the fact I've bought it, it's a bit early to judge seeing as all we've got is a demo but from what I've played it's just sorta average to me. It's funny though, the whole 'cast of characters' thing mentioned is similar to a mod idea I'd been toying with a good while back, seeing it in action is kinda interesting, especially as I never had the resources to realistically pull it off :3
I'm sure I'll enjoy it and whatnot but I guess the steps on the hype wagon are too high for me... someone want to lend me a hand? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I feel similarly; it's worth playing, especially with friends, but it's not the most fun thing I've got on my computar.
Versus mode is going to change all that.
Still a little bitter over not being able to climb walls though, I was looking forward to Skulk Simulator 2008
Seeing how we've all been around for a lot of game releases, it's pretty clear that some titles get a stupid amount of praise. Video game buyers should be aware of that. L4D, Spore, GTA 4, etc are all games that are over hyped.
The only time you should buy into the hype is if you're craving a game. Currently, I would kill for a popular, complex, and balanced RTS. As you can imagine, I'm waiting for SC2. Unless you really wanted a co-op zombie survival game, there's no real reason to buy into the hype.
Also: I don't hate the game, I really really love it, I just can't see why Valve is letting quality wane when its so close at hand.
Yep. That's why I need to fix my mic.
Ditto. It's a lot better with people that actually try to work together and talk on their mic.
Lolfighter is banned from having fire. Banned you hear me!
I tried multiple times with flashlight switched off in dark rooms so I wouldnt see anything, and those zombies still see me (I didnt touch them)..
Other than that, it seems to be a great game. I have to say Im also not that blown away, but I think this is one of the most fun coop games ever, besides Gears of War and maybe SvenCoop <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
It seems familiar because Resident Evil: Survivor did the same concept first. Only it kinda sucked.
Quite right!
Playing the demo with CPU controlled teammates left me with a bit of a "meh" feeling, but playing with human players is a lot more fun.
*zaggynl shoots lolfighter just before reaching the saferoom*
*zaggynl cackles*
The game doesn't run very well though for me, stuttering when lots of zombies show up or just randomly it seems.
Appears to be a known problem, something with multi-core processors.
mat_queue_mode 0 in console is said to fix it, you can also make the game run on one core with Task Manager.
To get console:
Add
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->bind "f12" "toggleconsole"<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
to
C:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\left 4 dead demo\left4dead\cfg
Source: <a href="http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php?p=5862401&postcount=4" target="_blank">http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php?p=586...amp;postcount=4</a>
Windows mode also seems to help: <a href="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8387714&postcount=39" target="_blank">http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/show...mp;postcount=39</a>
Valve dev about it: <a href="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8393874&postcount=91" target="_blank">http://forums.steampowered.com/forum/showp...mp;postcount=91</a>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just a note - people are reporting a few different things in this thread and calling them the same thing.
Currently I'm working on the problem where framerate bounces back and forth between low & high rapidly. Setting mat_queue_mode 0 stops the behavior (but reduces the average framerate).
This problem appears to be a threading conflict between our code and some other programs (or drivers) running on the machine. I've duplicated it with some AntiVirus software (e.g. real-time scanning in eTrust) and with multi-monitor setups. The next update will have a change to how we initialize threading that fixes these cases on the machines I have here.
If you are experiencing this problem, please try again with the next update and post your results.
There was another problem that caused occasional hangs (several seconds apart) that was fixed with a steam client update release today. If you are experiencing that problem, make sure to restart steam (guarantees you have the latest client) and please post your results here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also I do bind the "openserverbrowser" command to F10 for example...
<b>20 reasons why L4D isn't just "CS with Zombies"</b>
1. Accuracy degradation is not as severe, recoil is minimal
2. Contextual character communication (just like in TF2)
3. Many more HUD states (vomit, saliva, blood specks)
4. More than 1 type of enemy (enemies have different basic abilities)
5. Bot AI is more impressive, less cheaty; making offline play more fun
6. Assymmetric human teams in Versus mode (no, AK versus M1A4 is not enough to count as assymmetric)
7. Lobby size is smaller, friends-only games can be created to protect against griefing or general idiocy
8. In-built vote system to manage griefers and AFKs, no Admin required
9. As a <i>game feature</i> (not a server plugin), bots make up player numbers seamlessly until a new player joins
10. Difficulty settings make the game more accessible to newcomers, you can invite friends and introduce them at their own pace
11. Dynamic difficulty setting within each difficulty setting (AI Director, which actually works)
12. No round-based spawn system, players can be rescued from the next 'closet'
13. Play as 5 (6?) different types of character (Survivor, Boomer, Hunter, Witch, Smoker, Tank?) all with completely different movement and combat abilities
14. 16 official maps (IIRC a few more than CSS has, but perhaps I'm wrong)
15. 'Story' mode featuring 4 different campaigns
16. Will have achievements
17. Advanced graphics, shaders, filters, etc.
18. More enemies per 'round'
19. Co-operative play AND Humans vs. Humans team multiplayer
20. Very deep and well-refined sound effects and incidental score
I'll stop here. Tycho, please give me your list of 20 reasons why L4D <u>is</u> just CS with Zombies if you believe it so strongly. If you don't like the game, that's fine. But don't come up with bull######, unsubstantiated claptrap to support your views.
Not to mention Zombie mod may be fun but it has absolutely no depth whatsoever and a bunch of ###### custom maps to boot. Playing on the default CSS maps usually sucks because they aren't built for melee versus long-range.
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dEzwP29FvSc"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dEzwP29FvSc" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
Oh lawd!
How to play as a zombie: <a href="http://www.teamfortress2fort.com/forums/t/Left4DeadPlayableZombies-18198.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.teamfortress2fort.com/forums/t/...bies-18198.aspx</a>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hey, I found this last night, and I figured I'd post it. Sorry if someone else has already. I searched but couldn't find any.
Here's a tutorial I found online to enable zombie play: <a href="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=745482" target="_blank">http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/show...ad.php?t=745482</a>
This works for single player, and multiplayer on a lan server.
"There are scraps of Versus mode inside the demo. Models, sounds, and yes, even helpful tooltips and hint screens are included for playing the Infected bosses! If this post is somehow against the rules, delete it at your leisure.
1. From the starting screen, click Options, then Mouse/Keyboard, and enable the developer console.
2. Start a single player game and open your console with the ~ key.
3. Type "sv_cheats 1" and press enter. This will enable cheat mode.
4. Type "ent_fire !self setteam 3" and press enter. When you close the console, you will "die" and join the Infected team!
You get to choose where to spawn as a baddie! Press E to cycle through some suggested spawn locations, or to teleport directly to the survivors if you get too far away before spawning. But the next problem is that the AI controlled survivors will not leave their starting room and the game will not start on its own.
5. Open the console and type "director_force_versus_start 1" and enter to begin the round.
The survivors will start hacking their way through the apartment building and you finally get to try your zombie character!
6. When you die (and you probably will), you will not respawn. Press space to cycle through different spectating modes till you are in in free flight mode. You must then use these commands in the console.
z_spawn tank
z_spawn boomer
z_spawn smoker
z_spawn hunter
These will spawn you as that infected at the spot you are currently "flying" while dead. (Bonus fun: If you use these commands while you are alive, it will spawn a computer-controlled boss of that type where you are aiming. z_add will spawn a regular infected regardless of whether you are alive or dead. z_spawn witch also works, but she is always computer controlled)
KEEP IN MIND that these are just scraps of Versus mode! These demo maps were not designed for it, and they are not balanced or bug free in any way! There are places where you will die as soon as you spawn among other fun ways to get stuck or "break" the level (see <a href="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=745641" target="_blank">here</a>)
Many people including me have been unable to get the AI survivors to leave the safe room in the subways. Unless someone gets a work around, this only works on the apartment level. EDIT: sb_all_bot_team 1 is reported to make the subways workable."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2616/l4ddemhospital01apartmeha5.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Currently it seems that when you pounce, you're most likely dead before you know it. Simply because you cannot stop the attack and as a result can't move/escape...
@Crispy: Ye cannot play tha witch y'know <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
@Zaggy
Haha if all else fails, throw cars? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
*starts beating on the lunchroom table*
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHH!!
And does that zombie cheat still work? I thought they patched it out of the demo. Also, <a href="http://left4dead411.com/news/2008/11/demo-split-third-more/" target="_blank">here's</a> a cool little "cheat" that lets you change your camera angle.