Yes, they patched it. There's a bunch of cool console commands, but what with the autocomplete, most can be figured out on your own... director_force_panic_event, give gascan, inferno
<!--quoteo(post=1693333:date=Nov 13 2008, 04:30 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Nov 13 2008, 04:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693333"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I gave you a get-out clause there Tycho, you should have taken it. By admitting to playing all those games and spending that amount of time on CS, your statement now just looks plain stupid.
<b>20 reasons why L4D isn't just "CS with Zombies"</b>
1. Accuracy degradation is not as severe, recoil is minimal 2. Contextual character communication (just like in TF2) 3. Many more HUD states (vomit, saliva, blood specks) 4. More than 1 type of enemy (enemies have different basic abilities) 5. Bot AI is more impressive, less cheaty; making offline play more fun 6. Assymmetric human teams in Versus mode (no, AK versus M1A4 is not enough to count as assymmetric) 7. Lobby size is smaller, friends-only games can be created to protect against griefing or general idiocy 8. In-built vote system to manage griefers and AFKs, no Admin required 9. As a <i>game feature</i> (not a server plugin), bots make up player numbers seamlessly until a new player joins 10. Difficulty settings make the game more accessible to newcomers, you can invite friends and introduce them at their own pace 11. Dynamic difficulty setting within each difficulty setting (AI Director, which actually works) 12. No round-based spawn system, players can be rescued from the next 'closet' 13. Play as 5 (6?) different types of character (Survivor, Boomer, Hunter, Witch, Smoker, Tank?) all with completely different movement and combat abilities 14. 16 official maps (IIRC a few more than CSS has, but perhaps I'm wrong) 15. 'Story' mode featuring 4 different campaigns 16. Will have achievements 17. Advanced graphics, shaders, filters, etc. 18. More enemies per 'round' 19. Co-operative play AND Humans vs. Humans team multiplayer 20. Very deep and well-refined sound effects and incidental score
I'll stop here. Tycho, please give me your list of 20 reasons why L4D <u>is</u> just CS with Zombies if you believe it so strongly. If you don't like the game, that's fine. But don't come up with bull######, unsubstantiated claptrap to support your views.
Not to mention Zombie mod may be fun but it has absolutely no depth whatsoever and a bunch of ###### custom maps to boot. Playing on the default CSS maps usually sucks because they aren't built for melee versus long-range.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's a very silly list and the only reason I'm making my own list is to show how easy it is to make a bunch of ridiculous comparisons, not because I think there's any inherent value in either of these lists. I stole a few of your points because they apply to CS:S or CS:S Zombies just as well as L4D but I hope you don't mind.
1. Exact same player movement (run, jump, crouch) 2. Same flashlight 3. Two types of useful grenades 4. Guns with a cone of fire that gradually widens as you hold down the trigger and that decreases after you stop firing 5. Headshots do more damage 6. Realistic looking guns with limited clip size that have to be reloaded after firing 7. Modern day maps 8. Teamwork 9. Bot AI is more walky, less runny, makes zombies more realistic 10. Co-operative play AND Humans vs. Humans team multiplayer 11. Advanced graphics, shaders, filters, etc. 12. Lobby size is smaller, friends-only games can be created to protect against griefing or general idiocy 13. Source Engine 14. Increased accuracy when crouched 15. Shotguns, assault rifles, pistols, dual pistols, and SMGs 16. Choose whether to run away at the cost of accuracy or stand and shoot and risk getting killed 17. The high ground is the best ground 18. For some reason heavy assault rifles are readily available 19. ZOMBIES 20. More fun with friends.
douchebagatronCustom member titleJoin Date: 2003-12-20Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1693359:date=Nov 13 2008, 11:16 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Align @ Nov 13 2008, 11:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693359"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, they patched it. There's a bunch of cool console commands, but what with the autocomplete, most can be figured out on your own... director_force_panic_event, give gascan, inferno<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what does inferno do?
oh and, theres also thirdpersonshould, which is not a cheat and allows you a 3rd person perspective in any game.
The Witch is a really weird creature. For all they care, you can stand beside it and start shooting the crap out of other zombies. But, be sure not to shine your flaslight in her eyes, it'll kill ya!
I'm quessing it's some sort of bonus kill, like, "can you take on The Witch, with your current team." Eitherway, i'm not really caring about that.
Now about the looks.The nam vet looks pretty much the same, and Francis,"the biker dude" had an upgrade, in my perspective. Louis, has a great look, his clothing fits the predicament he currently is in. Now seriously, about Zoey. I don't get why people are criticising her looks. Her hair is a bit more sloppier, and she sport a few bruises on her face.
But, why look at the exterior when you can look at the interior. (talking about personalities here) They have great personalities, so i really can't quite get why people keep moaning about the way they dress. The nam vet for instance is really expierenced in combat, so it's understandable that he rarely get's beaten upon. Francis doesnt really have much clothin to rip apart, other then his pants, sleeveless shirt and vest. Louis already has ripped pants and an untugged shirt. Zoey, houses some bruises, has sloppy hair and dirty pants.
I understand that people look at the characters and criticise them, nothing wrong with that. That's why forums exist, right? To discuss topics, that rarely has to do with anything of importance.
<!--quoteo(post=1693362:date=Nov 13 2008, 04:55 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Nov 13 2008, 04:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's a very silly list and the only reason I'm making my own list is to show how easy it is to make a bunch of ridiculous comparisons, not because I think there's any inherent value in either of these lists. I stole a few of your points because they apply to CS:S or CS:S Zombies just as well as L4D but I hope you don't mind.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sigh, Tycho. The thing is almost all of the things you mentioned in your list, if not all of them, are prevalent in the vast majority of shooters released in the last 5-10 years. If COD4 had a zombie mod and some weapon re-skins it would basically be just like L4D. Any 'realistic' shooter with zombies would be just like L4D, apparently.
My list showed what was different about L4D, with some examples that are unique to L4D. You are also comparing two games (a retail and a mod). I could thereby use the WCIII mod for CS as an example of why L4D is totally different to CS. Or of someone makes a mod for L4D that replaces all the weapons with fruit, I could do what you've done and use that as an example of how L4D is different. It's a fairly flimsy argument. You should really just use Zombie mod as the point of comparison and leave it at that.
I haven't got time to undermine half of your points right now (3 or 4 of them are basically the same point rephrased), I'll see if I can really be arsed at a later date. What I will say for now is:
- How are slower zombies 'more realistic'? The general definition of zombie does not extend to its movement speed
Whats with the hate TychoCelchuuu? L4D is a good game and presents a refreshing air to zombie genocide with your buddies. Also all the CS nades are useful. And hey, at least you do not have to pay to buy guns XD.
<!--quoteo(post=1693359:date=Nov 13 2008, 11:16 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Align @ Nov 13 2008, 11:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693359"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's a bunch of cool console commands, but what with the autocomplete, most can be figured out on your own... director_force_panic_event, give gascan, inferno<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> These require sv_cheat right?
<!--quoteo(post=1693364:date=Nov 13 2008, 12:07 PM:name=Unc0nn3ct3d)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Unc0nn3ct3d @ Nov 13 2008, 12:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693364"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Francis,"the biker dude" had an upgrade, in my perspective.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Blasphemy! Francis looked way cooler with his long hair and gnarly beard. <a href="http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t280/left4dead411/screenshots/francis-bill-faces.jpg" target="_blank">See for yourself.</a> I also thought Louis looked cooler with hair but I guess they couldn't have all three male protagonists with facial hair.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Unc0nn3ct3d)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Unc0nn3ct3d)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now seriously, about Zoey. I don't get why people are criticising her looks. Her hair is a bit more sloppier, and she sport a few bruises on her face.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> At least she's changed from the earlier screens where she looked like she was straight out of Resident Evil. And don't get me started on the representation of women in games...
<!--quoteo(post=1693372:date=Nov 13 2008, 07:03 PM:name=Mastodon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mastodon @ Nov 13 2008, 07:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693372"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->These require sv_cheat right?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That, or being server admin, don't know which.
inferno does nothing on its own, its just the prefix for the fire settings; you can make it twice as large or twice as thick or 5 billion times as damaging with some of the cvars.
z_common is the prefix for standard infected; if you want to mess with the hordes, like say how big they are, this is where to look
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2008
z_typo does also get you into default horde zombie mode <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
yar, I knew "hate" was too harsh XD. Smoke nade is good for cover and act as a anti-awp. Also you missed my point about buying guns. I would agree with u that there is the idea of 1 team attacking (Terrorist/Survivor) and 1 team defending (Counter-Terrorist/ Infected Boss). I will be waiting for my awards. The real cs:s with zombies is those cs:s server with that zombie server mod.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2008
<!--quoteo(post=1693393:date=Nov 13 2008, 09:55 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Nov 13 2008, 09:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693393"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/nov/04/television-simon-pegg-dead-set" target="_blank">Common knowledge</a>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> But aren't the "zombies" in Left 4 Dead something else then undead? Last I checked they are infected... Meaning they are madly-insane and go berserk when they see anything not like them to the part where they just have this urge to shred/kill/destroy it?
So they are not undead it seems, just very very sick and crazy and have no remorse or humanity left...
concerning zoey, I don't think anyone critized how she looks ingame now or the 'bruised and ruffled' look she previously had. We were irked by the weird hair-band wearing B-movie actress design that was supposed to replace ole' stripey sock zoey but it seems to have been killed off.
The current design is pretty good, she's the old zoey but dressed in the clothes (minus headband) of the 'new' zoey. Works for me :3
Not really related to anything and I'm not siding with anyone here but Crispy's list was kinda meh :/ Small things aren't worth listing... it should've been stuff like "special infected with unique attacks like tongue dragging or throwing cars" rather than "small change in the accuracy values". Minor tweaks to numbers in a system do not a different game make :p
The story is that a new strain of rabies has broken out and started infecting people. The survivors are immune, so that's why you don't have to worry about being bitten once knocked down.
Symptoms seems to include extreme headaches - take a look at what the infected are doing before you start shooting them; throwing up, resting their heads on the walls... - and structurally weakened bodies - limbs are blown off, heads pop like overripe melons.
Doesn't explain the extreme mutations in the boss infected and the glowing eyes though. Theories for the former are usually along the lines of some previous characteristic being enhanced in them, like the Smoker being an actual smoker choking and coughing (dunno about tongue), Hunter being crack junkie bouncing off the walls and hiding in corners, boomer being obese or on diet pills, tank being on steroids, and of course witch being a pregnant woman who had a miscarriage from the infection or was a rape victim.
<!--quoteo(post=1693399:date=Nov 13 2008, 03:19 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kouji_San @ Nov 13 2008, 03:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693399"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But aren't the "zombies" in Left 4 Dead something else then undead? Last I checked they are infected... Meaning they are madly-insane and go berserk when they see anything not like them to the part where they just have this urge to shred/kill/destroy it?
So they are not undead it seems, just very very sick and crazy and have no remorse or humanity left...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, they're not zombies/undead, they're infected with rabies. That really doesn't change the fact that it's a zombie game, though, and "rabies" is just an excuse to have zombies. I mean, when you consider the lack of humanity, their desire to kill the few survivors who are forced to scavenge ammunition and supplies from the abandonded city, the power of headshots, the shambling corpses, the moaning, and the zillions of nods to zombie movies, it's definitely a zombie game <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
It's a zombie game, and I agree that zombies should be slow (I mean, rigor mortis anyone?), which is why it's acceptable for everyone to just nod and say out loud "oh no, they're not zombies, they're <i>infected</i>" even though we know full well that the distinction is irrelevant. It's acceptable to call them infected because zombies are slow, and in this fashion we can have fast zombies without breaking that rule.
See, I'm not sure slow zombies make for good gameplay, at least not in a game that features Half-Life (or CS) style movement and weapon handling. Zombies are DEFINITELY not meant to be tough (the tank and witch are acceptable exceptions). A good shotgun blast should take them down. So where does that leave us with slow zombies? Taking them down becomes a non-issue since they can be leisurely out-paced and killed with ease. So where <i>does</i> that leave us? Your target is moving slowly, so aim is not an issue. Your target isn't tough, so taking it down before it gets close is not an issue. How do we challenge the players? Ammo conservation? Running out of ammo is no fun. It's scary, which is why survival horror games like to use it, but it's not fun. And L4D is NOT a survival horror game. Survival action game is more like it. Survival horror doesn't really work in co-op if you ask me. What other option is there? The answer is ######TONS of zombies. Hundreds of zombies at a time. Literally hundreds. Pluralis, not singularis. Not <b>a</b> hundred. HUNDREDS. In each wave. Because there need to be so many of them that they can shamble up to the survivors before they all get taken down. They'll probably need to come from all directions at the same time constantly too, or the survivors can just keep backpedaling until the horde is dead. Performance considerations aside, I'm not sure this would make for compelling gameplay.
A common viewpoint in the "gameplay vs. realism" debate is that realism should be strived for, but never take precedence over gameplay. In this case, slow zombies are the "realistic" kind. Heh. But fast zombies simply make for better gameplay, making the takedown of any attacking zombie more urgent. It ramps up the tension. It means the survivors can't leisurely pick off zombies, they need to get that charging horde under control right here and now. If you think the game is too easy now, imagine what it would be like if the zombies could only move at half the speed you backpedal.
<!--quoteo(post=1693404:date=Nov 13 2008, 11:29 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Nov 13 2008, 11:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693404"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Survival horror doesn't really work in co-op if you ask me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll take your opinion and raise you Obscure on the PS2 :p ~throws in chips~
Sven Co-Op did slow zombies well enough on the HL engine because headcrab zombies are slow. They Hunger also had slow zombies I believe, and that was the HL engine.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<-- preloading Left 4 Dead at 620KB/s release is still so far away though... nov18 USA and nov21 EU, what does that mean... Unlock steam release is not influenced I hope... Just retailer right? RIGHT?!
<!--quoteo(post=1693406:date=Nov 14 2008, 12:57 AM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Geminosity @ Nov 14 2008, 12:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693406"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'll take your opinion and raise you Obscure on the PS2 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> ~throws in chips~<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Is it scary? I can't imagine it's scary when you have company.
<!--quoteo(post=1693409:date=Nov 14 2008, 01:45 AM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Nov 14 2008, 01:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693409"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sven Co-Op did slow zombies well enough on the HL engine because headcrab zombies are slow. They Hunger also had slow zombies I believe, and that was the HL engine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Still doesn't change the fact that people are already complaining that L4D is too easy, and making the zombies slower would only make it easier.
<!--quoteo(post=1693437:date=Nov 14 2008, 06:23 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Nov 14 2008, 06:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693437"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is it scary? I can't imagine it's scary when you have company.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It certainly is scary with lolfighter, you never know when to expect an auto-shotgun pallet or molotov cocktail in the back of your head!
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1693443:date=Nov 14 2008, 08:01 AM:name=Zaggy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zaggy @ Nov 14 2008, 08:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693443"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It certainly is scary with lolfighter, you never know when to expect an auto-shotgun pallet or molotov cocktail in the back of your head!
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> He is just trying to make it more challenging for you guys!
<!--quoteo(post=1693438:date=Nov 14 2008, 04:26 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Nov 14 2008, 04:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693438"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Still doesn't change the fact that people are already complaining that L4D is too easy, and making the zombies slower would only make it easier.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> At this point it would be turning it into an entirely different game, but to balance slow zombies you could have restricted ammunition instead of effectively infinite (and with the pistols actually infinite). And it could add in a few more of the special zombies, so that you'd have a couple hunters pounce at the same time or something.
So I've been playing this for a bit. I have mixed impressions. It's pretty fun, and I like that the zombies run at you. However it starts to feel like a hack-n-slash at some parts since you pretty much have unlimited ammunition and the zombies die too easily from body shots. Whatever happened to shooting them in the head?
I would say they need to turn down zombie run speed a bit, turn down how much ammo you get, and tone done non-headshot damage. Then I'd be happy.
Comments
There's a bunch of cool console commands, but what with the autocomplete, most can be figured out on your own... director_force_panic_event, give gascan, inferno
<b>20 reasons why L4D isn't just "CS with Zombies"</b>
1. Accuracy degradation is not as severe, recoil is minimal
2. Contextual character communication (just like in TF2)
3. Many more HUD states (vomit, saliva, blood specks)
4. More than 1 type of enemy (enemies have different basic abilities)
5. Bot AI is more impressive, less cheaty; making offline play more fun
6. Assymmetric human teams in Versus mode (no, AK versus M1A4 is not enough to count as assymmetric)
7. Lobby size is smaller, friends-only games can be created to protect against griefing or general idiocy
8. In-built vote system to manage griefers and AFKs, no Admin required
9. As a <i>game feature</i> (not a server plugin), bots make up player numbers seamlessly until a new player joins
10. Difficulty settings make the game more accessible to newcomers, you can invite friends and introduce them at their own pace
11. Dynamic difficulty setting within each difficulty setting (AI Director, which actually works)
12. No round-based spawn system, players can be rescued from the next 'closet'
13. Play as 5 (6?) different types of character (Survivor, Boomer, Hunter, Witch, Smoker, Tank?) all with completely different movement and combat abilities
14. 16 official maps (IIRC a few more than CSS has, but perhaps I'm wrong)
15. 'Story' mode featuring 4 different campaigns
16. Will have achievements
17. Advanced graphics, shaders, filters, etc.
18. More enemies per 'round'
19. Co-operative play AND Humans vs. Humans team multiplayer
20. Very deep and well-refined sound effects and incidental score
I'll stop here. Tycho, please give me your list of 20 reasons why L4D <u>is</u> just CS with Zombies if you believe it so strongly. If you don't like the game, that's fine. But don't come up with bull######, unsubstantiated claptrap to support your views.
Not to mention Zombie mod may be fun but it has absolutely no depth whatsoever and a bunch of ###### custom maps to boot. Playing on the default CSS maps usually sucks because they aren't built for melee versus long-range.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a very silly list and the only reason I'm making my own list is to show how easy it is to make a bunch of ridiculous comparisons, not because I think there's any inherent value in either of these lists. I stole a few of your points because they apply to CS:S or CS:S Zombies just as well as L4D but I hope you don't mind.
1. Exact same player movement (run, jump, crouch)
2. Same flashlight
3. Two types of useful grenades
4. Guns with a cone of fire that gradually widens as you hold down the trigger and that decreases after you stop firing
5. Headshots do more damage
6. Realistic looking guns with limited clip size that have to be reloaded after firing
7. Modern day maps
8. Teamwork
9. Bot AI is more walky, less runny, makes zombies more realistic
10. Co-operative play AND Humans vs. Humans team multiplayer
11. Advanced graphics, shaders, filters, etc.
12. Lobby size is smaller, friends-only games can be created to protect against griefing or general idiocy
13. Source Engine
14. Increased accuracy when crouched
15. Shotguns, assault rifles, pistols, dual pistols, and SMGs
16. Choose whether to run away at the cost of accuracy or stand and shoot and risk getting killed
17. The high ground is the best ground
18. For some reason heavy assault rifles are readily available
19. ZOMBIES
20. More fun with friends.
There's a bunch of cool console commands, but what with the autocomplete, most can be figured out on your own... director_force_panic_event, give gascan, inferno<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what does inferno do?
oh and, theres also thirdpersonshould, which is not a cheat and allows you a 3rd person perspective in any game.
I'm quessing it's some sort of bonus kill, like, "can you take on The Witch, with your current team." Eitherway, i'm not really caring about that.
Now about the looks.The nam vet looks pretty much the same, and Francis,"the biker dude" had an upgrade, in my perspective. Louis, has a great look, his clothing fits the predicament he currently is in. Now seriously, about Zoey. I don't get why people are criticising her looks. Her hair is a bit more sloppier, and she sport a few bruises on her face.
But, why look at the exterior when you can look at the interior. (talking about personalities here) They have great personalities, so i really can't quite get why people keep moaning about the way they dress. The nam vet for instance is really expierenced in combat, so it's understandable that he rarely get's beaten upon. Francis doesnt really have much clothin to rip apart, other then his pants, sleeveless shirt and vest. Louis already has ripped pants and an untugged shirt. Zoey, houses some bruises, has sloppy hair and dirty pants.
I understand that people look at the characters and criticise them, nothing wrong with that. That's why forums exist, right? To discuss topics, that rarely has to do with anything of importance.
Well, anyway. That's all i had to say ^^
My list showed what was different about L4D, with some examples that are unique to L4D. You are also comparing two games (a retail and a mod). I could thereby use the WCIII mod for CS as an example of why L4D is totally different to CS. Or of someone makes a mod for L4D that replaces all the weapons with fruit, I could do what you've done and use that as an example of how L4D is different. It's a fairly flimsy argument. You should really just use Zombie mod as the point of comparison and leave it at that.
I haven't got time to undermine half of your points right now (3 or 4 of them are basically the same point rephrased), I'll see if I can really be arsed at a later date. What I will say for now is:
- How are slower zombies 'more realistic'? The general definition of zombie does not extend to its movement speed
These require sv_cheat right?
<!--quoteo(post=1693364:date=Nov 13 2008, 12:07 PM:name=Unc0nn3ct3d)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Unc0nn3ct3d @ Nov 13 2008, 12:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693364"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Francis,"the biker dude" had an upgrade, in my perspective.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Blasphemy! Francis looked way cooler with his long hair and gnarly beard. <a href="http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t280/left4dead411/screenshots/francis-bill-faces.jpg" target="_blank">See for yourself.</a> I also thought Louis looked cooler with hair but I guess they couldn't have all three male protagonists with facial hair.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Unc0nn3ct3d)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Unc0nn3ct3d)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now seriously, about Zoey. I don't get why people are criticising her looks. Her hair is a bit more sloppier, and she sport a few bruises on her face.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At least she's changed from the earlier screens where she looked like she was straight out of Resident Evil. And don't get me started on the representation of women in games...
That, or being server admin, don't know which.
inferno does nothing on its own, its just the prefix for the fire settings; you can make it twice as large or twice as thick or 5 billion times as damaging with some of the cvars.
z_common is the prefix for standard infected; if you want to mess with the hordes, like say how big they are, this is where to look
But aren't the "zombies" in Left 4 Dead something else then undead? Last I checked they are infected... Meaning they are madly-insane and go berserk when they see anything not like them to the part where they just have this urge to shred/kill/destroy it?
So they are not undead it seems, just very very sick and crazy and have no remorse or humanity left...
The current design is pretty good, she's the old zoey but dressed in the clothes (minus headband) of the 'new' zoey. Works for me :3
Not really related to anything and I'm not siding with anyone here but Crispy's list was kinda meh :/
Small things aren't worth listing... it should've been stuff like "special infected with unique attacks like tongue dragging or throwing cars" rather than "small change in the accuracy values". Minor tweaks to numbers in a system do not a different game make :p
Symptoms seems to include extreme headaches - take a look at what the infected are doing before you start shooting them; throwing up, resting their heads on the walls... - and structurally weakened bodies - limbs are blown off, heads pop like overripe melons.
Doesn't explain the extreme mutations in the boss infected and the glowing eyes though. Theories for the former are usually along the lines of some previous characteristic being enhanced in them, like the Smoker being an actual smoker choking and coughing (dunno about tongue), Hunter being crack junkie bouncing off the walls and hiding in corners, boomer being obese or on diet pills, tank being on steroids, and of course witch being a pregnant woman who had a miscarriage from the infection or was a rape victim.
So they are not undead it seems, just very very sick and crazy and have no remorse or humanity left...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, they're not zombies/undead, they're infected with rabies. That really doesn't change the fact that it's a zombie game, though, and "rabies" is just an excuse to have zombies. I mean, when you consider the lack of humanity, their desire to kill the few survivors who are forced to scavenge ammunition and supplies from the abandonded city, the power of headshots, the shambling corpses, the moaning, and the zillions of nods to zombie movies, it's definitely a zombie game <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
See, I'm not sure slow zombies make for good gameplay, at least not in a game that features Half-Life (or CS) style movement and weapon handling. Zombies are DEFINITELY not meant to be tough (the tank and witch are acceptable exceptions). A good shotgun blast should take them down. So where does that leave us with slow zombies? Taking them down becomes a non-issue since they can be leisurely out-paced and killed with ease.
So where <i>does</i> that leave us? Your target is moving slowly, so aim is not an issue. Your target isn't tough, so taking it down before it gets close is not an issue. How do we challenge the players? Ammo conservation? Running out of ammo is no fun. It's scary, which is why survival horror games like to use it, but it's not fun. And L4D is NOT a survival horror game. Survival action game is more like it. Survival horror doesn't really work in co-op if you ask me.
What other option is there? The answer is ######TONS of zombies. Hundreds of zombies at a time. Literally hundreds. Pluralis, not singularis. Not <b>a</b> hundred. HUNDREDS. In each wave. Because there need to be so many of them that they can shamble up to the survivors before they all get taken down. They'll probably need to come from all directions at the same time constantly too, or the survivors can just keep backpedaling until the horde is dead. Performance considerations aside, I'm not sure this would make for compelling gameplay.
A common viewpoint in the "gameplay vs. realism" debate is that realism should be strived for, but never take precedence over gameplay. In this case, slow zombies are the "realistic" kind. Heh. But fast zombies simply make for better gameplay, making the takedown of any attacking zombie more urgent. It ramps up the tension. It means the survivors can't leisurely pick off zombies, they need to get that charging horde under control right here and now. If you think the game is too easy now, imagine what it would be like if the zombies could only move at half the speed you backpedal.
I'll take your opinion and raise you Obscure on the PS2 :p
~throws in chips~
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Is it scary? I can't imagine it's scary when you have company.
Still doesn't change the fact that people are already complaining that L4D is too easy, and making the zombies slower would only make it easier.
It certainly is scary with lolfighter, you never know when to expect an auto-shotgun pallet or molotov cocktail in the back of your head!
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He is just trying to make it more challenging for you guys!
At this point it would be turning it into an entirely different game, but to balance slow zombies you could have restricted ammunition instead of effectively infinite (and with the pistols actually infinite). And it could add in a few more of the special zombies, so that you'd have a couple hunters pounce at the same time or something.
I would say they need to turn down zombie run speed a bit, turn down how much ammo you get, and tone done non-headshot damage. Then I'd be happy.