Unchaining Evolution Chambers

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Comments

  • BlueNovemberBlueNovember hax Join Date: 2003-02-28 Member: 14137Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Jared101+May 27 2004, 10:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jared101 @ May 27 2004, 10:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the whole point of there being 1 chamber per hive is so rines are able to counter and have a chance

    will be a bit harder if you have cloaking skulks,focus skulks,and regen fade all at one hive <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This won't happen.

    Unless you have the slowest start marines in existence of course.

    6 ppl per team.

    3 will attack, say 2 gorge, and 1 res hogs

    Gorges get rts

    It's going to be a good 3 minutes before allien 6 can fade. By that time:
    Gorges will have built 2 or 3 chambers. / One resource tower

    Skulks will have dropped maybe 2 chambers, but mostlikely will be hindering marine expansion.

    This means that fade certainly does not have lvl 3 of everytthing; not by a long way. I would think that 6 minutes would be the lvl3all mark.

    By that time marines have lvl1 (maybe 2,) weapons, and level 1 armour. Fade should still not be too much of a problem.

    ==


    I love this idea. I let me PM Windlekron... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    Add it to your Sigs ppl! This one can't be ignored again! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • UKchaosUKchaos Join Date: 2002-08-10 Member: 1132Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->will be a bit harder if you have cloaking skulks,focus skulks,and regen fade all at one hive<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I dunno, it would cost the aliens 60 res to get full benefit, leaving 2 players that neither go fade nor build rts.
  • ssjyodassjyoda Join Date: 2002-03-05 Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
    but u still have the dc/mc/sc giving area benifits. cloakin/healing/adreneline to near by units at 1 hive... i can see ppl running out and dropping all 3 in a viable spot right off the break... lil stations all over in a couple of minutes. Although, i really would love to see this tryed.
  • rknZrknZ Join Date: 2003-10-23 Member: 21885Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-ssjyoda+May 27 2004, 05:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ssjyoda @ May 27 2004, 05:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> but u still have the dc/mc/sc giving area benifits. cloakin/healing/adreneline to near by units at 1 hive... i can see ppl running out and dropping all 3 in a viable spot right off the break... lil stations all over in a couple of minutes. Although, i really would love to see this tryed. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Sensories would definatly have to be altered. Probably the cloaking range reduced to around half what it is now, but also any rines in that range show up on SoF.
  • MelatoninMelatonin Babbler Join Date: 2003-03-15 Member: 14551Members, Constellation
    Silence Skulk hanging out at a choke point with sensory chamber and defence chamber nearby *drool*

    It would cost a bomb, But it would be so much damn fun.
  • FieariFieari Join Date: 2002-10-22 Member: 1566Members, Constellation
    It would cost at minimum, 70 res in order to get all 6 chambers, likely more... what with having other people go gorge, what with needing resource towers, what with wating OCs from time to time. And unless you intend on sticking all those chambers in your hive, there's always the fairly large risk of having those chambers destroyed by the marines. Marines destroying alien upgrade chambers is considerably more likely and easy than aliens destroying the marine arms/proto lab.

    More risk, more cost.

    What this WOULD do, on the other hand, is de-emphasize the importance of hives even more, unless the alien lvl3 weapons were made more powerful or other hive effects came into play (like life bonuses for more hives?)... which would de-emphasize the power of a 2-hive lock. If aliens can control the entire map EXCEPT for two of the hives, then they still have a chance. With enough resources, they can get regen fades and focused skulks and adrened gorges/lerks to hammer marine installations, and place forward stations to help out. With enough resources, that is. With enough resources.

    Overall Map control will become more and more relevant. Point control will become less so.
  • WindelkronWindelkron Join Date: 2002-04-11 Member: 419Members
    I troll this forum every day, how did I not come across the gem?

    Great idea!!!!!
    +added to hub

    (thx to blue november for the heads up)
  • statusqstatusq Join Date: 2003-01-10 Member: 12142Members
    There needs to be a way to tie upgrades to hives.
    My suggestion is: you could only choose one upgrade per hive, and if any hive is lost then the most recent upgrade would be removed. This way you couldn't have regen+cele+focus fade with one hive, but you could choose the upgrade best fitting to the situation. For example, if you skulk you choose cele, and if you decide to lerk you could choose regen. Upgrade chambers would still control the level of the upgrades, aswell as give their bonuses normally (heal,adren regen,cloak). No need to change any costs of upgrades or lifeforms.
  • BobTheJanitorBobTheJanitor Join Date: 2003-12-10 Member: 24228Members, NS1 Playtester
    The only one upgrade per hive thing is actually part of the first post. It's the best balancing factor in this idea. It allows various chambers even at one hive, but you still only get the option of one upgrade at a time. Balanced, yet not rigid like the current system. This and only this will save us from an eternity of D-M-S.
  • RecoupRecoup Join Date: 2004-04-25 Member: 28195Members
    I would really LOVE to be able to select more from the same group! That way when Im a skulk I dont have to get pwned because I'll have Cloak and Silence, and I can be a STEALTH NINJA SKULK!
  • BlueNovemberBlueNovember hax Join Date: 2003-02-28 Member: 14137Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Fieari+May 27 2004, 12:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fieari @ May 27 2004, 12:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It would cost at minimum, 70 res in order to get all 6 chambers, likely more... what with having other people go gorge, what with needing resource towers, what with wating OCs from time to time. And unless you intend on sticking all those chambers in your hive, there's always the fairly large risk of having those chambers destroyed by the marines. Marines destroying alien upgrade chambers is considerably more likely and easy than aliens destroying the marine arms/proto lab.

    More risk, more cost.

    What this WOULD do, on the other hand, is de-emphasize the importance of hives even more, unless the alien lvl3 weapons were made more powerful or other hive effects came into play (like life bonuses for more hives?)... which would de-emphasize the power of a 2-hive lock. If aliens can control the entire map EXCEPT for two of the hives, then they still have a chance. With enough resources, they can get regen fades and focused skulks and adrened gorges/lerks to hammer marine installations, and place forward stations to help out. With enough resources, that is. With enough resources.

    Overall Map control will become more and more relevant. Point control will become less so. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    There are bouses for more hives

    Less risk for loosing (if one hive is suddenly sieged, it wont cost you the game)
    Armour bonuses at hive 2 and 3
    Spawn times are reduced
    Alien dominance is increased (MC between hives)


    ==
    NP Windle. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Friends in high places.... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • MelatoninMelatonin Babbler Join Date: 2003-03-15 Member: 14551Members, Constellation
    actually thats a good point.

    in this new system what happens if you lose the second hive?
    do you go back to only one upgrade? the current system is more flexable in this respect.

    and what if you have two upgrades when the hive goes down?
  • XyrcaiXyrcai Join Date: 2004-05-25 Member: 28898Members
    Simple solution. If you lose a hive, you simply can't train that next skill.

    IE:

    You have 3 hives, lose one. Next respawn you can't train 3, just two again.

    However, if you have 3 trained when hive dies, you keep them. This gives Aliens a diminishing strength to try to make a final push to get that hive back, without overpowering them.
  • NightCrawlerzNightCrawlerz Join Date: 2003-04-18 Member: 15609Members
    Lets get this tried out. Ns balance changes are becoming political. The devs think of an idea and then get their little minions to make a stink about it on the forums, Then and only then is it tried out. Without a dev backing thins idea with his bus load of groupies this idea will never be tried.

    We need a dev and his groupies to help us.
  • RyoOhkiRyoOhki Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12789Members
    In response to people saying that sensroy early game would be too powerful, remember that it's been tried and tested before, and there's a reason sensory ended up in the 3rd hive slot again. Compitant marine teams were able to use scans and work in groups to defeat the power of sense with relative ease. The alien side was quickly wiped out as their ability to hit fortified outposts was essentially nil, and marine teams expanded and electrified easily.

    With all the chambers allowed, the marine side might still be able to combat sense chambers fairly easily, but they'd have to worry about their electrified rts getting hit by regen Fades, and would have to move in teams. I believe the single largest factor contributing to the effectiveness of rambo res-knifing marines is skulks being denied the advangates of cloaking and silence. They can't ambush lone rambos; instead they have to charge at them down corridors or wait around a corner and pray the marines don't have MT. That's not what a skulk was designed to do, so is it any wonder they're being seen as underpowered right now?

    On the issue of hives becomming less important, I disagree. A second hive gives you some great abilities that are really needed, plus an all-important other spawn point. t's impossible to stress how much having 2 spawn points helps the alien side. Plus with movement chambers you get instant transportation across the map and from a hive you can generally control one or two nearby res points, aside from the one inside the hive. Even with all chambers buildable from the start, hives will still remain of pivotal importance. That said, the importance of control of the map will also be increased, as the fight will shift towards resource control once more. Therein lies the essence of Natural Selection: fighting over resources, and often where the best and most memorable gameplay is to be found.
  • SkyrageSkyrage Join Date: 2003-08-27 Member: 20249Members
    Aye..I agree...

    I would say that it's the marines MT which prevents the aliens from starting with motion or sensory chambers...the rines can get MT fairly quickly, and once they do...well, byebye khaara...

    Silence and cloaking are mostly useless in classic...been so for a very long time...celerity...well, that's somewhat better than silence...still doesn't matter much if the rines know where you are at all times though...
  • Steel_BladeSteel_Blade Join Date: 2003-11-23 Member: 23432Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-BlueNovember+May 27 2004, 04:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BlueNovember @ May 27 2004, 04:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There are bouses for more hives

    Less risk for loosing (if one hive is suddenly sieged, it wont cost you the game)
    Armour bonuses at hive 2 and 3
    Spawn times are reduced
    Alien dominance is increased (MC between hives)


    ==
    NP Windle. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Friends in high places.... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    2nd hive and 3rd hive abilitys perhaps?
  • SeraphyGoodnessSeraphyGoodness Join Date: 2003-06-05 Member: 17029Members
    I'm adding my vote to this one. It's just what is needed for the Kharaa.
  • JikxJikx Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3563Members
    Definitely worth a try!

    sometimes i really wonder if devs make this game only for clans.. not the general public.
  • BlueNovemberBlueNovember hax Join Date: 2003-02-28 Member: 14137Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-STeeL BLaDe+May 28 2004, 03:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (STeeL BLaDe @ May 28 2004, 03:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-BlueNovember+May 27 2004, 04:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BlueNovember @ May 27 2004, 04:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There are bouses for more hives

    Less risk for loosing (if one hive is suddenly sieged, it wont cost you the game)
    Armour bonuses at hive 2 and 3
    Spawn times are reduced
    Alien dominance is increased (MC between hives)


    ==
    NP Windle. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Friends in high places.... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    2nd hive and 3rd hive abilitys perhaps? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well obviously. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    + ^Bump^
  • RueRue Join Date: 2002-10-21 Member: 1564Members
    edited May 2004
    This idea is so good I put my name to it!


    Edit: Ok I've read the whole thread now and I still love this idea but

    Maybe I'm going out on a limb here, shouldnt chamber cost be reduced by 1 or 2?
    The reason I think this would help is that the kharra would be able to afford more chambers. Even if the unchained chambers are tried out, clans are going to decid on one chamber and keep using it because they cant afford to have all 3 types of chambers but no fades.
  • BobTheJanitorBobTheJanitor Join Date: 2003-12-10 Member: 24228Members, NS1 Playtester
    This will allow for little changes. Like, get those 3 DCs up and then get an SC in a choke point. It's not game breaking by a long shot, but it does give the aliens a little variety in their strategy. Saving for second hive is still going to be a lot more important than chambering up the map, but being able to put even ONE SC at a building hive, for example, or having one MC near a battle allowing you to transport back to a hive for quick healing. It brings some sorely needed variation to the stagnant field of alien strategy.
  • NightCrawlerzNightCrawlerz Join Date: 2003-04-18 Member: 15609Members
    i love you bob.

    thats exactly what i am thinking.
  • TorgoTorgo Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11626Members
    edited May 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-NightCrawler.+May 28 2004, 02:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NightCrawler. @ May 28 2004, 02:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i love you bob.

    thats exactly what i am thinking. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Sigh...ok...who's the person who allowed Nightcrawler to start posting again? I thought he went far, far away.


    Oh right, the idea...yeah, it's a good one.
  • DaxxDaxx Join Date: 2002-04-16 Member: 460Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    So a general summary of this thread:
    <ul><li>Not one person in four pages of posts has had a serious objection to this idea</li><li>Its a great idea in theory</li><li>It really should be tested</li><li>In all of NS's history, this idea has been suggesed many times, yet we have never recived Developer feedback on it.</li></ul>

    Is there a reason for the last point? Can we <b>please</b> get a Developer response on this idea, at least to the point of "Possibly" or "Never happen"?

    Sure it's a signifigant change. But from everything I've seen and read in the past 2 years on this board, this is the single best idea that seems to have never recieve offical consideration.

    Bump this thread for the glory of NS!
  • NightCrawlerzNightCrawlerz Join Date: 2003-04-18 Member: 15609Members
    Can we please test this for 1 patch. say beta 5 because i really really want to try cloaking for once in my freaking life. The only time i get to use sensory is when i drop it and **** everyone off. Please stop making me **** everyone off and let the chambers be untied.

    if we try this out in beta 5 ill remove the curse i put on flayra.
  • WirheWirhe Join Date: 2003-06-22 Member: 17610Members
    *Bump of Glory*

    ...But just to remind you, that the developers probably ignore 99% of all suggestions, and with 99.9% probability don't even read 0.01% of all posts (or what admins are saying about them). So, the chance that the next reply is from a playtester (or better: Flayra) is about one million to one.

    <i>"...But sir! Our chances of surviving a battle with an imperial battle-cruiser are less than 12098274 to 1!"
    "Shut up, tin-head!"</i> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    (I could almost bet that the developers are just taking a beer ATM and forgetting all about NS. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
  • DaxxDaxx Join Date: 2002-04-16 Member: 460Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--QuoteBegin-Wirhe+May 28 2004, 06:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wirhe @ May 28 2004, 06:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <i>"...But sir! Our chances of surviving a battle with an imperial battle-cruiser are less than 12098274 to 1!"
    "Shut up, tin-head!"</i> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->


    <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I prefer the asteroid field quote:

    ...never tell me the odds.
  • CyndaneCyndane Join Date: 2003-11-15 Member: 22913Members
    Yes.. you now have the offical endorsement of someone who doesn't like to post in beta threads.

    Lets unchain those chambers!!!
  • Umbraed_MonkeyUmbraed_Monkey Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9922Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Daxx22+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Daxx22)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->    * In all of NS's history, this idea has been suggesed many times, yet we have never recived Developer feedback on it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--QuoteBegin-Flayra@late 1.04+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra@late 1.04)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Really great idea. This would be a snap to code and we'll almost surely try it. It would fix a big problem that's been nagging me since day #1 (the problem where aliens aren't seen with different levels of their abilities).

    I'd probably make a few tweaks though:

    - Keep the costs the same for all lifeforms, regardless of number of hives. It just seems confusing to me that costs for anything would change, and it seems not too significant.

    - Keep max resources at 100, for all aliens (it's simple and elegant). This system might work well with not giving gorges extra points as well (another nagging problem).

    - I've been thinking about doing the same thing for the alien upgrades as well (allowing them all to be built whenever). A team that gets lots of upgrades early won't be able to get higher lifeforms, and a team that goes for resources won't be able to get upgrades. This is how it worked for hives too of course, but this gives it more levels of granularity. This also would greatly simplify the alien UI (which I'm not particularly happy with still).

    I'm glad you really thought it through, it makes it much more convincing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20615&hl=' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...topic=20615&hl=</a>
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