Pre-purchase NS2?

Joseki · January 2005

Gotta know more before slapping down my hard-earned moolah. But, if it's a logical extension of the first NS, I'd prolly pre-order.

GDVL · January 2005

I'll preorder soon, that's the best teamplayer based game i've ever played. Both FPS/strategy !!!

But like most of us, i would like also to know more ^^

I don't care about the box/manual/any_other_stuff. For me, only playing the game is important.

Nemesis_Zero · January 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Joseki @ Jan 25 2005, 07:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Gotta know more before slapping down my hard-earned moolah. But, if it's a logical extension of the first NS, I'd prolly pre-order.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I didn't get anything but allusions out of Charlie so far, but from what I gather, it'll likely be 'NS plus additional layers of gameplay'. I know, I'm being very specific today <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' />

adi0 · January 2005

I'm ready to prepay as long as I'll be able to hov4r without flapping.
but seriously I'd chose to pay more and get box version coz my connection is pain in the *** and I have monthly transfer limit <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' />

btw: I'm in Europe <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' />

UPDATE:
Mercior - this thread is all about declaration NOT a decision. I see it as sth similar to donation, but in this case you would get a promise of getting the product you are supporting. Yes, it's a risk, but it'll benefit both sides if Flayra won't flee with all the money. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

Mercior · January 2005

Sorry to say this but I think you would have to be pretty stupid to part with your cash with the vauge promise of "we'll devlop a game with this!!!1". It *is* clearly a substitue for investors nomatter what you say and I can very well understand the lack of intrest in investing in your company looking at your track record with the development of NS.

If NS was still a popular game and fun to play I would <i>maybe</i> consider the investment, but you've patched and patched, repeatedly ignored any decent advice coming at you, ignored feedback from playtesting clans, taken months to fix the most trivial bugs, wasted time working on utterly useless "features", abolished the original playtester program (which was the only one close to being decent), abused community members, failed to provide even a simple training map and in general, just f***ed up the entire development process. And thats a VERY conservative list.

Perhaps you will learn from your mistakes and come up with a decent game that people will be willing to pay for, and I really hope you do as NS had some of the most promising gameplay out there! But: I will beleive it when I see it! Until then, good luck with the development & dont be expecting any of my money.<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

[edited cause swear filter didnt catch my swear]

2_of_Eight · January 2005

Wow mercior. It sure looks like you are disappointed with Natural Selection... and chances are, you are <b>one of a few</b>. Simple facts say that NS is the #1 non-commercial mod for HL. It receives great reviews, and new players come to it every day. The players are, in general, nicer and more friendly than in any other game (*points at CS*).
You're saying the dev team has done nothing but worsen the game, ignore the community and generally spend its time doing worthless things. Really, you think so?
Take a look at 1.00. Take a look at early betas. Take a look at 1.04, 2.0 (and all its versions, 3.0 b1-4. The latest version of NS is clearly better than any of those versions.
Endless bugs eliminated (take a look at bug database); new maps added, existing maps improved. Please don't tell me devs aren't doing anything; you simply don't notice, as far as I understand.
Technically, NS is the most advanced mod for HL. Biggest maps, most entities, highest quality textures/models, advanced light effects. You won't find this in any other mod for HL. The devs spent countless months modifying the engine, all very nice.
I would like to see what your definition is for a non-screwed up development process. Point me to one game where the devs did everything well, according to you.

Quaunaut · January 2005

Wow Mercior. I wonder what the entirety of what 2.0 was(aka, things that the community wanted *badly*), what combat was/is(a training ground. Sure, isn't much of one now, but its more helpful than thought). Or maybe the input of seperating hive count with lifeforms. And what do you mean they abolished the original playtester program? I've heard no such thing from anyone, and quite frankly, the current PT system is *very* well done, thank you. And what community members have they abused? CWaG? Forlorn? You call that abuse? If you saw the posts they made quite commonly, you'd see they broke the rules *more* than enough times. And this is coming from someone who got his title for calling someone a 12 year old idiot who couldn't operate a program simpler than his own OS.

Sure, its a sub for investors. But guess what? Generally, people don't like investing in something unless its a sure-fire deal. Thats why we have at least 15 Counter-Strike clones, 6 to 10 Battlefield 1942 clones, 50+ Starcraft clones, 3 Warcraft III clones, and at least 90 tycoon games. Innovative ideas generally don't make too much money- look at Thief, the original Deus Ex.

Sounds to me that you just don't like NS to begin with, if anything.

Stakhanov · January 2005

Though NS is indeed the most complex HL mod ever done , and Flayra's job has been impressive so far , Mercior has a point - it could have been better with a larger , more communicative dev team. The biggest communication failure was the I&S forum , that has been left completely unused for longer than a year , while many veteran NS players were starting to leave. There is no doubt that much work has been put into version 3.0 , but its playtesting method was questionable (ns_veil's new vent , seriously...) and core issues remained unaddressed.
There were (still are) tons of community support , and the dev team failed to take advantage of it. The new coders were recruited very late , and the forums still don't have enough dedicated moderators - which is trivial to fix.
As a result , NS is steadily losing its older fans. Gone are the days when I played NS for hours non stop , I barely play it monthly now. I am playing other HL mods (The Ship , Zombie Panic , Action Half Life) that remained entertaining throughout their updates and keep getting better. Now , I will download beta 6 when it comes out , but it's the last chance to restore some faith in the dev team - should I be disappointed by it , I'll stop playing NS altogether , as will plenty of former NS regulars.
Only if beta 6 seems to address NS's most important issues as opposed to the previous betas , will I consider pre-purchasing it.

2_of_Eight · January 2005

I wonder what you guys mean by "core issues" and "fatal mistakes". What are the issues that should be fixed? And what are those mistakes that the devs made?

Ugly_Jim · January 2005

Yes, but only with some decent info about the game.

Mercior · January 2005

Well first of all I don't "hate" ns, I have played it since the day it came out for several clans and I still play occasionally! The community is getting smaller though.. 30 or less clans in europe I would guess, which is a lot less than in 2.0 times and you find yourself playing the same clans over and over.. if you can find a game. If you've played the game for a clan then you are probably already aware of whats wrong with it.

I don't want to dip into a debate over whats wrong with ns. My point was that ns hasnt gone the way I(and others?) had hoped and I wouldnt pay the team for the promise of a better game with their current record.

2_of_Eight · January 2005

I don't think saying "You're doing it all wrong. I don't want to give you any money or help whatsoever, though" helps the slightest bit.
Telling me that I'm spelling "missisippi" wrong helps, because I can look at a dictionary. However, telling the devs that they're doing it all wrong doesn't help at all, since there is no "how to make a good game" guide.
If you're going to say that they're doing something wrong, say what it is. Can't hurt anyone.

illuminex · January 2005

I said "yes," but I believe that playtesting rights should be given to those who pre order the game. I would also like to see an official concept of the game, with gameplay and basic story line outlined. I want to get some kind of feel for the game I'm purchasing. With all of the problems that have resulted from Natural Selection's poorly done developments cycles, my confidence in the team has nothing to do with ability, but instead what the ideas and themes of the game will actually be. Natural Selection looks very pretty, is very well coded, etc, but the reality is that the core gameplay sucks. Combat is fun, but who cares? Natural Selection is about strategy, and right now there is really no strategy to Classic. It's lame, it's boring, and I'd rather play DoD or Gangwars than waste my time.

I hear that Beta 6 is going to be much better, but that's still beta 6 of a slowly evolving version of a game that took over a year and a half for the development team to un-ruin. I honestly hope that this is not the kind of development cycle that NS2 would see, but I don't think it would matter quite as much, since it's all closed betas.

Nemesis_Zero · January 2005

Merc, we had a few discussions regarding this in PM, and again, unless adding <i>italics</i> to a statement makes it true, our playernumbers are not dwindling. There are still between 90.000 and 100.000 individual Steam_IDs a month. It's true that the competitive community has shrunk, which has various reasons and whole threads dedicated to it, so I won't get into it here.

You are right, should such a preordering happen, it would be a partitial substitute for investors - because investors tend to demand high influences in release schedules and the like, which Charlie does not want to give away. There are interested parties.

If you don't want to invest because there have been mistakes in NS' development, and nobody with open eyes will debate that, that's your right. But let me point out that you won't find many game developers who don't.

Stakhanov · January 2005

Hmmm. I thought the core issue of NS is pretty clear... it's its fun value. I and plenty of other former NS regulars think the game isn't nearly as fun as it used to be. Maybe it just reached its normal life span , but enjoyable NS games tend to be rare nowadays , and only happen in the nicest settings (Tactical Gamers Unchained <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' />) while they used to be common in the pre-JP/HMG 1.04 and pre-RamboFade 2.0 times.

Games are made to entertain people , and their features should only exist for that purpose. Immersive games are funnier than crappy looking games , and that is the only reason why it's worth spending so much time designing detailed models and believable maps. That's what NS2 should be : an immersive game for neverending fun.

Align · January 2005

Actually, enjoyable games were had once out of every five games in 1.0x, though they were relatively short, since one side would wipe the floor with the other. I imagine the ratio is similar today.

Thaldarin · January 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ShadowRam @ Jan 24 2005, 11:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Dont go overboard.. or you'll drown..

Dont do SP.. Dont do alot of crazy 'new' things...

Stick with NS.. add a few features... make it look nicer..

Sell that.. THEN hit the big project.. after NS is a celebrated Series....  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I disagree. HL2 made it big doing 'new' things, going overboard with the Source engine and doing an SP. Look at what a hit that is, I love playing the SP over and over, just like the original.

Gecko_God_Of_Dooom · January 2005

if you play the game more than 5-6 months, the fun kinda starts to go away since you have experianced a realy good game of NS. Which usualy happens when both teams are pretty even, and the game is 30 mins of non stop action of hard core trying.

evidence · January 2005

I definatly want to see some kind of SP in NS2 if its a full game I want my moneys worth and that includes SP. it doesnt need to be a replication of mp either look at C&C renegade both sp and mp were very very different.

D4rkeh · January 2005

i do it for either option #2 or #3

OrganoX · January 2005

I voted no.
Why? Well, because NS is a great game with fun memories from the old days.
Like other games, it will take ages to get the game done (if the game is going to be in progress). And i may not be interested to even play NS2 after a year or two. Sure i like NS and i still like it, but if NS2 is going to be in progress, ill think about buying it or give it a try.

LaPalida · January 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Sorry to say this but I think you would have to be pretty stupid to part with your cash with the vauge promise of "we'll devlop a game with this!!!1".</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Hmm I guess the ns crew was "pretty stupid" to make a free mod/game with a vague promise of nothing in return huh???

25 bucks?? If you give it away you won't be any poorer and if you keep it it won't make you any richer.

TychoCelchuuu · January 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (LaPalida @ Jan 27 2005, 07:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Sorry to say this but I think you would have to be pretty stupid to part with your cash with the vauge promise of "we'll devlop a game with this!!!1".</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Hmm I guess the ns crew was "pretty stupid" to make a free mod/game with a vague promise of nothing in return huh???

25 bucks?? If you give it away you won't be any poorer and if you keep it it won't make you any richer.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Well put. Except for the part about not being any poorer or richer.

The 25 bucks isn't just paying for NS2. It's like a big thank you for NS. And yes, I know there's also Constellation.

Abra · January 2005

wouldnt - course iam a penny loving oerson

Rahabib · January 2005

I would but only if I know what the game is going to be like. Different graphics and new guns/aliens wouldnt be enough for me. I would like to see better controls (less emphasis on scripting - UE does a better job than HL1/2 does) better GUIs, better teamplay, and gameplay. Id like to see all that and more stuff like more guns and aliens before I make any decision.

duvel · January 2005

after a couple of years i'm still in love with ns and no other game.
i still don't have ns friends and my friends hate me for playing to much ns or something so ok now i hate them, i die alone in my own arms so who cares.

that 25€ is ok for me, i'll smoke less that week <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /> (good for da health)

is there a bankaccount available? (seriously)

TheAdj · January 2005

I voted for more imformation as well, simply because I want to see what features said game will have (I'm an information hog). I'd pay full price up front.

Majin · January 2005

Well, Its been a long time since I have posted here.
I think its time to get back into NS.
I know I would buy NS2 for 40 bucks if I had too.

Its good to be back!!

Invader_Scoot · January 2005

If a final version of 2.1 (3.0 now) can't be done two years after it's scheduled release date something is terribly wrong. And it's not like we're talking about a big time game here either, it's just a little HL mod.

Majin · January 2005

"Just a Little HL Mod..."
Are you kidding me?
NS is the most popular 3rd party mod for HL.
NS is still my fav game, and I am not alone in that respect.

Pre-purchase NS2?

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