Source Maps?

Hyperion · January 2005

Thanks for posting that, just wanted to see the results, that looks like its doing the job!

I like that Nvidia plugin, it works well for things that are generally flat, so good.

BobTheJanitor · January 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Supernorn @ Jan 15 2005, 07:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Just did a quick test. I removed all the highlights from the base texture, but kept the detail in the normal map. It works fairly well, but when you turn the torch on, the normal mapping (and hence the highlights) isnt visible in the spot the torch is shining on. I'm thinking there must be a way around this.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
And you didn't take screenshots? BAD MONKEY! NO BANANA!

TychoCelchuuu · January 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Jan 15 2005, 03:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TychoCelchuuu @ Jan 15 2005, 05:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ Jan 15 2005, 12:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Sweet in game shots. That texture keeps looking better. How does the texture work with light sources coming from different directions? I'm still worried that the faked lighting on it might look odd if light is coming from, say, below the texture, since the way it looks now assumes a light above it. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Yes, the lighting is faked, but to have the texture shadow itself without faking the lighting you would need a normal map which wouldn't work very well for that sort of the, or the actual geometry and a lighting model that casts real time shadows. Which Source does not have.

Faked lighting is here to stay, and nobody is going to mind when the alternative is no shadows at all except those cast by characters. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
read the article that hyperion linked to. You don't need to fake lighting anymore, because the compile tools now take the normal map into account in the radiosity step.
You can still do it, and it will look like it always did, but you have options now.

<a href='http://www2.ati.com/developer/gdc/D3DTutorial10_Half-Life2_Shading.pdf' target='_blank'>http://www2.ati.com/developer/gdc/D3DTutor...fe2_Shading.pdf</a>  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
You misunderstood. The normal maps will shadow the texture fine from world lights, but if Mr. Marine shines a flashlight at it there won't be a shadow.

Huze · January 2005

How's this look?

The texture
<img src='http://img84.exs.cx/img84/993/nstest00021to.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
The bump map
<img src='http://img156.exs.cx/img156/1060/nstest00038sr.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
The metal-ness
<img src='http://img156.exs.cx/img156/2325/nstest00087ux.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Invader_Scoot · January 2005

Those textures rocks the socks. Keep it up! We'll have enough textures for NS:S anytime now! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

ssjyoda · January 2005

ppl should like.. call the textures they are doin so no one else does the same ones nd wastes time... i think norn already has all the wall_labs called.. heh

Hyperion · January 2005

What resolution is that at? Looks good, and did you make it from scratch?

Huze · January 2005

The original is 128x64

Mine is 512x256 (what you see there is scaled .25, the standard for source textures)

And, no, it's not a new texture, simply the old one with some modifications.

here is the new, and old texture.
<img src='http://img64.exs.cx/img64/4784/floor3iz.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

ssjyoda · January 2005

its blurry to me... if u've read rest of topic, u'd know u can't just use the olds nd modify, u need to start again to get the higher res, otherwise it does come out blurry

BobTheJanitor · January 2005

Definitely blurry. I'd say go through and remake it with much sharper edges, then lay the old texture over it very lightly if you want.

moultano · January 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TychoCelchuuu @ Jan 15 2005, 10:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> You misunderstood. The normal maps will shadow the texture fine from world lights, but if Mr. Marine shines a flashlight at it there won't be a shadow.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I'm pretty sure there will be. Shine your flashlight on the corrigated pipes in halflife 2. The shadows are just what you would expect.

Mido · January 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Jan 16 2005, 12:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TychoCelchuuu @ Jan 15 2005, 10:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> You misunderstood. The normal maps will shadow the texture fine from world lights, but if Mr. Marine shines a flashlight at it there won't be a shadow. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
I'm pretty sure there will be. Shine your flashlight on the corrigated pipes in halflife 2. The shadows are just what you would expect.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
The magic of texture-bump mapping
:o

Sewlek · January 2005

as for bum mapping: There is a nice script for photoshop CS, that creates you good looking bumpmaps automatically. You can convert up to 1000 textures at once.
its at the valve forums (well, SDK section was closed and moved) and you can get it from <b>XGibboussX</b>'s post: <a href='http://www.chatbear.com/board.plm?a=viewthread&b=4986&t=548,1101526739,21918&s=0&id=736021#88' target='_blank'>HL2/CSS: Photoshop Normal Map Generator</a>

and, remaking all textures isn´t that of a hard work, you just have to use the right filters and sharpen the texture correctly if you resize it.

Maybe i get some time and try to remake some textures of the room you showed us mendasp.

Supernorn · January 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Schimmel @ Jan 16 2005, 05:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> remaking all textures isn´t that of a hard work, you just have to use the right filters and sharpen the texture correctly if you resize it. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
But it doesnt look nearly half as good unless you start from scratch, using the original as a base.

Example:

Resized, Sharpened
<img src='http://img64.exs.cx/img64/4784/floor3iz.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Created at 512X256 with original as base:

<img src='http://img106.exs.cx/img106/7899/herafloor6jg.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

I think I'll scale it down actually, I dont think it should be that big.

ssjyoda · January 2005

ok.. officially.. no one is allowd to do this but norn.. now, finish it up now bastard!!.. heh.

after spendin so long workin with pretty much only the ns texture set, i really dont wana learn another set.

KungFuDiscoMonkey · January 2005

Yeah I can empathize with ssjyoda on that one. I've been working with the NS textures for so long, it's hard to learn all the new textures with HL2 <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

dPP · January 2005

wo looking good, do some more norn.. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

BobTheJanitor · January 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Supernorn @ Jan 16 2005, 02:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>AWESOME STUFF</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Wow, just wow. Seriously nice. I'd love to see what you could do with an infestation texture. (Although that would no doubt take a while)

Mendasp · January 2005

Norn, did you apply for the Texture artist position? BECAUSE WE NEED MORE PEOPLE LIKE YOU!

Which means: Awesome.

Edit: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/news/jobopenings' target='_blank'>Job openings</a>

brute_force · January 2005

Seriously incredible. You should ask Cory for some tips/source images, if possible. It might help speed things up and such. Looks great anyway. Good job :O

douchebagatron · January 2005

perhaps it would be possible to make a database of all the completed textures? i have some webspace available but i have no idea how to make it accessible as a website other than direct linkes to files.

BobTheJanitor · January 2005

Use a Gmail account. I can give you one if you need one, but everyone has 50 by now anyway. It works perfectly for a storage medium for files of this size. Just share the password out to everyone involved. Works well for leaving messages and keeping people on the same page as well.

douchebagatron · January 2005

good idea. i made a gmail account. when someone makes a ns source texture just email it to nsstexture-at-gmail-dot-com. when someone else needs to download a texture, just go there and the password is nssource
once again:
email: nsstexture-at-gmail-dot-com
pass: nssource

perhaps make a thread abotu this and sticky it?

The_Cheat · January 2005

I read somewhere on here about the idea of using the 3D Skybox feature of the Source engine to make some pretty interesting skyboxes outside maps. For example, someone suggested having an entire map be sort of a "space station" that is orbiting a planet contained in a 3D skybox (whereas the planet is actually orbiting the map, but gives the illusion that the map is orbiting the planet).

I decided to play around in Hammer and try and make a visual representation of this so people who can't visualize it can see how it could be implemented. However, the demo I recorded is way too big, and compressing it to a *.rar file still gives me a size bigger than what I can upload here. Anyone got some webspace that they could spare 223Kb on for this?

Hyperion · January 2005

how norn, how how how did you get such straight lines on that?

I suck a PS and really want to help, so how the heck do you do those?

*cries for lack of knowledge*

Supernorn · January 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (6john @ Jan 16 2005, 11:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> good idea. i made a gmail account. when someone makes a ns source texture just email it to nsstexture-at-gmail-dot-com. when someone else needs to download a texture, just go there and the password is nssource
once again:
email: nsstexture-at-gmail-dot-com
pass: nssource

perhaps make a thread abotu this and sticky it?  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Sent <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' />

Hyperion · January 2005

Just messing around with norns stuff to see if i could reproduce the aymi texuture color, and i came up with this. Ayumi seems ideal for a remake becuase its texure set is limited and well used. Here's what i came up with.

Olmy · January 2005

That needs some darker areas i think.

douchebagatron · January 2005

very nice. now there is updated wall_lab, and all the original textures converted straight over on the account.

The_Cheat · January 2005

Ok, I found a cheesy way to host this demo of what a 3D skybox could possibly do for NS (although it is a small-scale representation.) [link removed, look down]. Download that RAR file and view the HL2 demo in it to see what I was talking about.

Now, imagine that on a much larger scale, ala a huge "planet" like that orbiting an entire map, giving the illusion of an orbiting space station. Do note that a model would most likely need to be used for a planet, since the sphere object does not look entirely spherical when rendered in the engine.

EDIT: Oh, and ignore my crappy over-scaled representation of a satellite. I just did that to show that other objects could be made to rotate around that planet to further enhance the illusion.

Source Maps?

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